Why does this game even have classes?

Renoaku_ESO

Here is what has kept me from playing this game for many years, I really Love the ESO Game series, but the MMO version is meh and I quit playing although I never uninstalled hoping it would be fixed, here is why.

1.) Lack of character Customization in game, or Re-customization.

2.) Classes, Why are there "Restricted Classes" anyways why not allow a player to level up and progress everything on a single character like "Dark Fall" and "Albion"?

3.) Why is there no player housing, why can't players own big mansions where players can "Farm" plant crops, and fancy upgrades and unique features "Instanced" but other guild members can visit and such. (Not limited housing) everyone can own a house or custom mansion and such.

The one thing "Arche Age" and "Black Desert" gets right with housing is how unique it is with farming and crafting involved.

4.) The ability to preview styles before clicking craft?

Please make improvements.

Didgerion

Yeah it was a disappointment when they announced that there would be classes in ESO.

I think they added classes for the following reasons:
1. To make the game more comfortable for other MMO players that switched to eso
2. To make people create a lot of alts - this way the "End Game" would be longer
3. To balance some skill combos by putting them under the class gate.

Duiwel

It was also the most disappointing aspect of this game to me.

In Oblivion, Skyrim, Morrowind I always started out as a rogue, got my skills up and then transitioned into heavy armour and slowly started to do spell casting ect. So I always mastered all the 3 star signs abilities. Usually with:

a bow 1 hand ( daggers usually, but occasionally swords ) later on get my shield up Fire Magicka in destruction tree some restoration abilities

Then in Skyrim things got more fun and I focused a lot into spell casting from the start, conjuration was so wonderful!

They should remove the classes imo and introduce more skill trees, however for dungeon, game mechanics and pvp purposes re-balancing everything for this will be nearly impossible. Because the coding has already been done in this way and designed with classes in mind.

The thing that annoyed me the most was probably that the arrows didn't go where I aimed and there was no more skill involved with archery

If they entered it with an Elder Scrolls mindset things might have been different


Now to answer some of your points:

1). By lack of character customization I am not sure what you meant because this game's character creation is one of the most immersive in a bunch of mainstream AAA MMO titles... If you spend enough time in there your character will be 100% unique on a game with millions of players. Sure it lacks many hairstyles and tattoos but more of those will be added later. If you mean lack of customization in terms of skills / class or to customize the look of your sword / shield a little or your armour I understand that but they are pretty short staffed for customization. They are focusing on content, bug fixes and eating donuts

2). Archaic design choice a.k.a. the safe route ( don't deviate too far from the likes of WoW ect. )

3). Player housing is a possibility, no comment on whether you will be able to upgrade or gather from it.

4). ESO fashion.

davey1107

1. What character customization are you looking for? You can respec most everything in game. In 2016, ZOS will also be releasing a "barbershop" that allows you to change character appearance, including race. But it's not clear why haircuts are so important that you won't play the game over them.

2. Classes allow a diverse world. The model where any character can earn anything is outdated and not fun gameplay. In ESO, sorcs are sorcs and Templars are Templars. Weapon skills and the champion system offer the ability to do a lot of customization if you want a tankier sorc or more magical Templar.

3. Housing is coming, but it likely won't be like what you're describing. ESO has never been about adding a FarmVille emulator to the game, and I've never seen a post here asking for crop tending. Housing will likely be a place to display and store your gear, and perhaps have some craft stations.

4. Seeing style previews would be useful, this is an area where the game is lacking.

5. If you don't like the game, don't play. But you're asking for some pretty niche features. Development time would Bette RBG spent on other things - a new area will attract more players than some stupid housing farm mini game...sorry, but it's true.

WillhelmBlack

One day we will have Elder Scrolls: Online. Just not in my life time. I was deeply disappointed when I heard of this game and it's class system but I went ahead with the beta and I'm glad I did! Met some great people that are into the same things as me.

This game ain't too bad. The 4 classes just stops everyone running the same stuff in PvP. ZOS seem to have improved the game a lot this patch coming as they've added a lot of armour that allows diversity. Now is a great time to start.

eNumbra

Duiwel wrote: »

It was also the most disappointing aspect of this game to me.

In Oblivion, Skyrim, Morrowind I always started out as a rogue, got my skills up and then transitioned into heavy armour and slowly started to do spell casting ect. So I always mastered all the 3 star signs abilities. Usually with:

I'd like to know how. Morrowind had legit skill restrictions. There were always some skills you simply couldn't learn based on which class you took; and you know what, RPGs are better this way.

Lorkhan

all skills avaible to all classes, who wouldnt like that?
then all skills scaling with your highest stat
i call that balance

Tiphis

Yeah the lack of aiming arrows was heartbreaking, no more aiming high above the head for maximum range head shots. But like some of the others were saying, it's not easy to have no classes in a game with pvp.

Darkonflare15

Lorkhan wrote: »

all skills avaible to all classes, who wouldnt like that?
then all skills scaling with your highest stat
i call that balanc I like making a character base of of class and different

Lorkhan wrote: »

all skills avaible to all classes, who wouldnt like that?
then all skills scaling with your highest stat
i call that balance

That is also called boring and still will not be balanced since certain skills will be deemed useful and everybody will be using them.You going bring more of the same into the game and nothing different. I like how we can change our base off our gear. To me me that is good enough.

Bromburak

Lorkhan wrote: »

all skills avaible to all classes, who wouldnt like that?
then all skills scaling with your highest stat
i call that balance

Everyone would play a stun opener and one hit finisher ...
Like NB Stealth CC and Sorc Crystal Frag.

You might already noticed that this has nothing todo with balance.

Thats why many synergies and skills would never have been implemented to the game like it is now, without 4 classes. Of course, having more freedom and choice is great for players, but it would require a complete new concept and mechanics, you cannot just merge everything and think everything is perfect.

This doesn't work, especially not for PvP or Raid content.

Imo the problem is that not every class can fullfil the perfect role like it is in trinity concepts.
And balancing hybrids is a very complicated process.

There must be a trade of between playing heavy tank (def and taunt), dps (glass canons) or healer, cc and mobility. But in ESO some classes can have it all at its best while others can't.

This makes the current class system questionable, fix it and 4 classes would be fine.
Most players like individuality as long you don't give a class access to things others can't have.

Imo thats one of the core problems in ESO.

ajwest927

#4 is a much needed feature

Waffennacht

I wouldn't mind a little garden or greenhouse to attend to...

Just saying I liked it in skyrim...

Me in my self built castle house, making mad concoctions with home grown herbs...

a1i3nz

Because if you think the balancing issues are bad now, wait until everybody can combo spells that were once class specific. If I could fear you, dark flare, talons, wrecking blow, biting jabs...... Oh lawd ZOS would be busy. You could follow a trail of tears right to their office.

jhharvest

It's obvious why ESO has classes: if there were no classes, ZOS couldn't *** on templars from a great height and laugh.

Destyran

So im not a sorc with jabs and surprise attack

dodgehopper_ESO

Duiwel wrote: »

It was also the most disappointing aspect of this game to me.

In Oblivion, Skyrim, Morrowind I always started out as a rogue, got my skills up and then transitioned into heavy armour and slowly started to do spell casting ect. So I always mastered all the 3 star signs abilities. Usually with:

a bow 1 hand ( daggers usually, but occasionally swords ) later on get my shield up Fire Magicka in destruction tree some restoration abilities

Then in Skyrim things got more fun and I focused a lot into spell casting from the start, conjuration was so wonderful!

They should remove the classes imo and introduce more skill trees, however for dungeon, game mechanics and pvp purposes re-balancing everything for this will be nearly impossible. Because the coding has already been done in this way and designed with classes in mind.

The thing that annoyed me the most was probably that the arrows didn't go where I aimed and there was no more skill involved with archery

If they entered it with an Elder Scrolls mindset things might have been different


Now to answer some of your points:

1). By lack of character customization I am not sure what you meant because this game's character creation is one of the most immersive in a bunch of mainstream AAA MMO titles... If you spend enough time in there your character will be 100% unique on a game with millions of players. Sure it lacks many hairstyles and tattoos but more of those will be added later. If you mean lack of customization in terms of skills / class or to customize the look of your sword / shield a little or your armour I understand that but they are pretty short staffed for customization. They are focusing on content, bug fixes and eating donuts

2). Archaic design choice a.k.a. the safe route ( don't deviate too far from the likes of WoW ect. )

3). Player housing is a possibility, no comment on whether you will be able to upgrade or gather from it.

4). ESO fashion.

I was just going to say plenty of npc's are dual class. King Kurog for instance is a Templar-DK. A lot of the pvp priest/guards are Templar/Sorc. I could make more examples but you get the point.

Gilvoth

the devs were told right from early beta and ever since then, to not have and not include classes.
that the idea of classes would cheapen and even destroy pvp, pve and gameplay in-general.
those suggestions were ignored and not listened to.

Iove

They have classes so they can nerf Templars

eNumbra

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I was just going to say plenty of npc's are dual class. King Kurog for instance is a Templar-DK. A lot of the pvp priest/guards are Templar/Sorc. I could make more examples but you get the point.

There's also an NPC that's a Daedric prince, should we have those powers too?

Rune_Relic

Twerkish wrote: »

Because if you think the balancing issues are bad now, wait until everybody can combo spells that were once class specific. If I could fear you, dark flare, talons, wrecking blow, biting jabs...... Oh lawd ZOS would be busy. You could follow a trail of tears right to their office.

Fear = push
Talons = root
jabs/wb/flare damage (You cant use all 3 at the same time).

Such things should be isolated or scale with attributes.
If my root was 1m radius or 1s and your root was 10m radius or 10s you have better tanking ability.
My root is pretty pointless in comparison.
All such things can be assigned to and scaled to attributed instead of given to a class with preset attributes.

You just have to make damn sure you isolate and balance DPS, Healer and Tanking skills by attribute properly.
You then have to make sure you give them their own pool/regen to make sure nobody can be master of all.

There is of course nothing stopping you having..
4 styles of DPS.....as long as they use the same pool/regen/attribute
4 styles of Healing.....as long as they use the same pool/regen/attribute
4 styles of tanking.....as long as they use the same pool/regen/attribute

dodgehopper_ESO

davey1107 wrote: »

1. What character customization are you looking for? You can respec most everything in game. In 2016, ZOS will also be releasing a "barbershop" that allows you to change character appearance, including race. But it's not clear why haircuts are so important that you won't play the game over them.

2. Classes allow a diverse world. The model where any character can earn anything is outdated and not fun gameplay. In ESO, sorcs are sorcs and Templars are Templars. Weapon skills and the champion system offer the ability to do a lot of customization if you want a tankier sorc or more magical Templar.

3. Housing is coming, but it likely won't be like what you're describing. ESO has never been about adding a FarmVille emulator to the game, and I've never seen a post here asking for crop tending. Housing will likely be a place to display and store your gear, and perhaps have some craft stations.

4. Seeing style previews would be useful, this is an area where the game is lacking.

5. If you don't like the game, don't play. But you're asking for some pretty niche features. Development time would Bette RBG spent on other things - a new area will attract more players than some stupid housing farm mini game...sorry, but it's true.

I'm pretty sure @Gidorick and @TheShadowScout would disagree with you on the housing issue. I'm pretty sure there are plenty others who would like a Hearthfire+ to play with. This kind of feature is hugely popular in other mmo's, and would probably be moreso if the game had sandbox features like SWG had. Wildstar is built on these things and gained a huge following in part because of them, and so do many other MMO's. It might not be the strategy for this game, but I don't think you can make blatant statements about whether or not this is an acceptable feature. I know for a fact that in DCUO people spend huge amounts of time on their base, which adds functional benefits as well as revenue for Daybreak (was Sony) and the artistic fun people want. DCUO is actually a very similar game to this one with action combat and controller support. Would you say they are doing it wrong? The only area where they differ (apart from theme) is that DCUO has Legend pvp (play as batman, joker, superman etc in pvp), queued pvp as your character in a wide array of maps, and an Open World PVP server (closest analog to Cyrodiil, except the whole map is pvp).

dodgehopper_ESO

Destyran wrote: »

So im not a sorc with jabs and surprise attack

Why would you bother with jabs if you have surprise attack? The nightblade stamina skills are better than anything Templar has.

TheShadowScout

Renoaku_ESO wrote: »

1.) Lack of character Customization in game, or Re-customization.

I hear ye... its coming, but... not soon enough, appearently.

Renoaku_ESO wrote: »

2.) Classes, Why are there "Restricted Classes" anyways why not allow a player to level up and progress everything on a single character like "Dark Fall" and "Albion"?

...because its an MMO. It would be very, very hard to make a "freestyle" MMO that has both nifty magical abilities, and playtime fun, as many such attempts would end up with all characters gravitating towards one super-effective FotM build... not much fun in PvP when its all the same instead of some sort of "rock-paper-scissors" feeling... not much fun in PvE when you don't need to think about your teamwork, but everyone is tanky, and DPSish, and can heal themselves as well...
The alternative would be making the skills one can learn just mean much, much less. No nifty class skills, no impressive magical abilities, just bland stuff, all spells along the lines of destro staff attacks... they went with a system that allowed them to put in some impressive stuff, and a system that forced classes to be different for spicing up the game...
But most of all a system that was safely proven by many, many games (way before computer games - its basically the same pattern as D&D's "fighter-rouge-cleric-mage" setup)

Renoaku_ESO wrote: »

3.) Why is there no player housing...

Because they haven't programmed it - yet. Duh.
It will come. In time. Hopefully done well.
And yes, by that I mean to include stuff like I sometimes mention like herb garden optional imrovements tro guildhalls where people can harvest alchemy or provisuioning ingredients on a regular basis...

Renoaku_ESO wrote: »

4.) The ability to preview styles before clicking craft?

...would have been nifty. But then, so would have been a whole "outfit planner"... where you can test how you'd look in this or that racial style per piece, make plans to mix and match...
Its not that big a deal though for crafting. I'd much prefer to be able to see how a piece of gear would look on you for already crafted stuff, say, in guild stores...

eNumbra wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

It was also the most disappointing aspect of this game to me.

In Oblivion, Skyrim, Morrowind I always started out as a rogue, got my skills up and then transitioned into heavy armour and slowly started to do spell casting ect. So I always mastered all the 3 star signs abilities. Usually with:

I'd like to know how. Morrowind had legit skill restrictions. There were always some skills you simply couldn't learn based on which class you took; and you know what, RPGs are better this way.

Not quite. If you were persistant enough, you -could- learn pretty much everything in TES:Morrowind. It just really, really sucked trying to leel up your tertiary skills, and it didn't gain you anything since level progression was dependent on your primaries... though of course you needed some sklls if you wanted to lean some spells and so on...

But in single player games, it doesn't really matter if you can or cannot learn anything and everything. Since you are generally the only player character demigod around anyhow... in MMOs its a different tale...

Jura23

We have 12 trees of class skills right now. I would welcome if they just let players pick whiever 3 trees they want if that choice would be permanent.

Cernow

Without classes there would be no Templars to be everyones' free APs and TV stones.