An Open Letter to Zenimax Regarding the Hero Costumes

Cazzy

Dear ZoS,

I absolutely love the Elder Scrolls series and have been a fan since it's baby years in 1994. When ESO was announced it was so exciting to finally put myself into Tamriel with friends and have an opportunity to form new friendships with fellow Elder Scrollians.

Since I started playing I have been a constant subscriber, I have bought crowns monthly, bought nearly every crown store item released, bought the DLC despite it being free for me, encouraged friends and family to try the game and have been a big supporter of the game.

When the Hero Costumes were announced I was extremely excited to be able to own these iconic outifts and was fully prepared to buy them. However, I feel like despite my loyalty and support I was expected to pay out a considerable amount of money. There was no special discounts for ESO+ members, no attention to detail (in my opinion) put into them and there is still the unaddressed issue of costumes not fitting our characters as we created them.

I feel a little undervalued as a customer.

I'd like to see more for ESO+ members. I'd like to see fair prices for iconic costumes, especially for people who have spent most of their paycheck to the franchise. I'd like to see the costumes addressed - can they be fixed so they fit our characters correctly?

I will still always support the game and continue to do as I have been. However, I cannot justify spending such a large amount of money (or crowns) on a costume that should have been affordable to all fans of the game. Even 1500 crowns would have been more acceptable.

Please take into consideration everybody who loves the game and who has continued support for The Elder Scrolls Online.

Many thanks,

An Elder Scrolls Fan.

Didgerion

There is a special discount for ESO + members: you get the subscription's crown equivalent back to your account.

Technically you pay 0 dollars for the costumes while being loyal to ESO by subscribing to it.

Gidorick

I agree... that is why I suggested back in feb 2015 that ESO+ include a Crown Store Discount... and why I made this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243893/eso-needs-a-10-crown-store-discount/p1

Cazzy

Didgerion wrote: »

There is a special discount for ESO + members: you get the subscription's crown equivalent back to your account.

Technically you pay 0 dollars for the costumes while being loyal to ESO by subscribing to it.

That isn't true for everybody.

I spend my 1500 crowns on the monthly store additions. It's one of the ways I support the game, which I say in the letter.

Plus with no warning on the cost of the costume I was unable to save in advance. Therefore, I would be expected to pay for 3000 crowns just to buy the outfit.

Gidorick

On a more personal note... I'm very slowing being turned off of ESO. Mechanics are getting added that is making ESO act more like an action/arcade type game than an RPG and then there are mechanics and features that I would love to see in ESO that I'm coming to realize will never be part of the ESO experience.

As much as I love ESO and I adore the Tamriel ZOS has created, the pressure they are under from the MMO side of this community and from the investors to make SHORT TERM money is leading to a focus, direction, and a game that is off-putting to me. I'm not at the point of walking away, but things like portable crafting stations (a datamined item which I hope is never included in ESO), the abandonment of Justice System PVP, the inclusion of a passive only skill line for the Thieves Guild (which seems to be a copy/paste of the Legerdemain passives), and the lack of any narrative choice in the DLC (we MUST be a thief in the Thieves Guild DLC) does more to convince me that ESO will never be, and doesn't aspire to be, the game I was hoping it would be.

Oh, and I fully acknowledge that the blame for my expectations lie squarely on my slumped shoulders.

Gidorick

Didgerion wrote: »

There is a special discount for ESO + members: you get the subscription's crown equivalent back to your account.

Technically you pay 0 dollars for the costumes while being loyal to ESO by subscribing to it.

I don't think you understand what a discount means...

dis·count
/ˈdiskount/
noun
noun: discount; plural noun: discounts

1. a deduction from the usual cost of something, typically given for prompt or advance payment or to a special category of buyers.
   "many stores will offer a discount on bulk purchases"

synonyms: reduction, deduction, markdown, price cut, cut, rebate
students get a 10 percent discount"

There is more than 1500 crowns worth of items that are sold each month... if a subscribed player buys ALL of them... they get no special deals for being an ESO+ subscriber.

Skew your perspective all you want in your ZOS colored glasses... Crown Store items cost the same crowns for subscribers and non-subscribers alike.

Cazzy

I'm going in the same direction, tbh. I've considered leaving the game before I start to have ill feelings towards it, if that makes any sense. One of the reasons I started playing was for the RP experience but with many issues like the lack of things to do in the Outlaws Refuge, choices being quite linear (as you said with the Thieves Guild), costumes being cut and paste - it all doesn't help me fully enjoy the experience.

If that's the way the game is intended to be, then that's fair. I'm just slowly reaching the end of my time in Tamriel and am hoping it changes sooner rather than later

MikeB

I've recently reached my breaking point with ESO. The lack of bug fixes, the lack of respect (imo) for the playerbase by leaving game breaking bugs and glitches in the game while they pump out several crown store items a month and the lack of innovation just got to me. I can't continue to support a game I want to love but just frustrates me more than CoD used to. These "Hero" costumes just tipped me over.

Forestd16b14_ESO

People are still on about this ? It's 2000 crowns get over it half the other stuff cost way more than it. The Halloween polo were what 1500 the special horse mounts are 2500 and 3000 the glass motif which is even uglier cost 5000.

ZOS needs to pay there employees some how and plus the artiest and programmer probably spent weeks to months making this outfit with the thought in mind that their gonna be rewarded for there hard work but instead they get nothing but rage comments saying "to damn high".

So what you players expect ZOS to either give away all there work for non-profitable price or for free just cause you cry about it?

Cazzy

Did you read the letter?

Snowstrider

I agree. I used to think eso+ was a bad thing to have before becouse it wasnt rewarding at all. But now at least we get free DLCs

But in my opinion zos should do a complete overhaul on the character o4 armor clothing art design. Costumes and armor kn this game have clipping issues or just look painted on. I mean when you are paying so much for a costume you should be able to dye it to make i5 more unique and your own instead of looking like everybody else and it should not have any clipping issues.

Artjuh90

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

People are still on about this ? It's 2000 crowns get over it half the other stuff cost way more than it. The Halloween polo were what 1500 the special horse mounts are 2500 and 3000 the glass motif which is even uglier cost 5000.

ZOS needs to pay there employees some how and plus the artiest and programmer probably spent weeks to months making this outfit with the thought in mind that their gonna be rewarded for there hard work but instead they get nothing but rage comments saying "to damn high".

So what you players expect ZOS to either give away all there work for non-profitable price or for free just cause you cry about it?

the glass motif isn't bad though. we want to keep the in game value of those motifs otherwise people doing the daily's will feel screwed over by. that's why it still has decent value. if it was just 1k crowns for example people would feel screwed and probably won't put mutch effort on the next style trait

Gidorick

Snowstrider wrote: »

I agree. I used to think eso+ was a bad thing to have before becouse it wasnt rewarding at all. But now at least we get free DLCs

But in my opinion zos should do a complete overhaul on the character o4 armor clothing art design. Costumes and armor kn this game have clipping issues or just look painted on. I mean when you are paying so much for a costume you should be able to dye it to make i5 more unique and your own instead of looking like everybody else and it should not have any clipping issues.

Ugh... The body-paint armor is a really sore point for me. this game came out in 2015! there are games that are 10 years older that do armor better! The design of the armor is amazing! Don't get me wrong. It's just that when leather straps, chains, and metal plates are all flat on the same surface it just looks terrible.

Alucardo

They've said ESO+ subs will be getting an UNLIMITED crafting bag. If they keep that promise I have no issues with the membership at all.

Hero costume still looks like a bag of dung.

nimander99

@Cazzy You literally just told my exact story. Everything you said applies to myself. From playing since Arena and my excitement for ESO to subbing every month and buying crowns for all costumes, mounts and pets.

I bought the Hero Armor not paying attention to the cost of it and that was my bad because as a firm believer in we vote with our dollar I just voted w/o reading the ballot and that's my bad.

I sign this thread in the hopes that we will NOT see another Hero Costume exceed 1500 Crowns... it's just redonkulous!

Edit: I do not believe this game is struggling financially so I think that was straight up overvalued greed on the Marketing Departments part.

LoreRiley

LOL, you are gonna get me banned again!

You pay $15 which is the equivalent price of 1500 crowns which you get from subbing!
Access to all DLC
XP, Gold, Inspiration Bonus

You should be happy with just the crowns but the fact that you get access to DLC and XP bonus is good enough.

Also you seriously just say that $15 was most of your paycheck? Where do work at? An Indonesian Sweatshop that pays above average?

Thevampirenight

Well, for one thing I would like to see the end of the limited time system, make all items permanent maybe a few exceptions, main reason why they made the hero costume 2000 crowns is because its only going to be on there for four days, when it just should be a permanent addition. if they want money they got to stop being so generous to subs, and giving them 1500 only 500 should be given, that way it encourages people to buy crowns in order to spend money and it gives them more money, that way they can do away with limited time system, if people want a white bear and black bear, they should be able to buy it, any time they want to. As for the mind shriven skin they would make a fortune if that was a permanent time item. Name change and one time class change, would also bring in a fortune.


I am liking eso for the fact they care about the game are not as greedy, they are fixing stuff they can't do it as fast for consoles because they are forced by Microsoft and Sony to only do it at certain times. Well I play on pc so they will fix stuff on pc faster then consoles. Also they don't have as many devs to work on stuff and are busy.
I do agree there needs to be changes, but yeah yelping about it does not help either.
Well I would like to see like 5500 crowns for pc for the price of 39 dollars, and keeping the prices for buying crowns as low as they do, this allows them to sell more of them and would make them a killing but they do have to change the system of giving away free 1500 crowns with sub and making it 500 crowns for subbing while making a lot of benefits for a subscriber.
Like return of the loyality program system, this would allow people to get items like the ice wraith and other items, that was not available after the change to buy to play, also I don't care about them promising to not ever sell or allow the beta monkey to be acquired I would like to see that like a 600 day sub reward.
Everyone should get a chance at having a senche mount making that a 1000 day reward would be worth it, or even 365 day reward for being subbed for that long. Or having that much in sub time.

Taternater

The hero costume is certainly too expensive. However people must be buying it or else I assume they would have adjusted the price. In real life there are people who would pay $1,000 for a pair of shoes so I'm not surprised people would buy this costume.

Though I won't because at least in my opinion I think it looks ugly.

Artjuh90

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well, for one thing I would like to see the end of the limited time system, make all items permanent maybe a few exceptions, main reason why they made the hero costume 2000 crowns is because its only going to be on there for four days, when it just should be a permanent addition. if they want money they got to stop being so generous to subs, and giving them 1500 only 500 should be given, that way it encourages people to buy crowns in order to spend money and it gives them more money, that way they can do away with limited time system, if people want a white bear and black bear, they should be able to buy it, any time they want to. As for the mind shriven skin they would make a fortune if that was a permanent time item. Name change and one time class change, would also bring in a fortune.

I am liking eso for the fact they care about the game are not as greedy, they are fixing stuff they can't do it as fast for consoles because they are forced by Microsoft and Sony to only do it at certain times. Well I play on pc so they will fix stuff on pc faster then consoles. Also they don't have as many devs to work on stuff and are busy.
I do agree there needs to be changes, but yeah yelping about it does not help either.

people want to feel like they are the special snowflake and the limited time offer helps them in 2 ways, they get a item which another can't buy after time elapsed. with the limited time ZoS is able to get more money for the same item in a shorter period of time and continueing to do so with new items.

Maverick827

Gidorick wrote: »

As much as I love ESO and I adore the Tamriel ZOS has created, the pressure they are under from the MMO side of this community and from the investors

I wouldn't throw "the MMO community" in there. MMO players almost universally dislike "cash shops."

We've just come to a point where you unfortunately have to regard some cash shops as "well, at least it's not as bad as [some other game]."

I think the kind of items in ESO's cash shop are fine, but the prices are way too high in a lot of cases.

Cazzy

LoreRiley wrote: »

LOL, you are gonna get me banned again!

You pay $15 which is the equivalent price of 1500 crowns which you get from subbing!
Access to all DLC
XP, Gold, Inspiration Bonus

You should be happy with just the crowns but the fact that you get access to DLC and XP bonus is good enough.

Also you seriously just say that $15 was most of your paycheck? Where do work at? An Indonesian Sweatshop that pays above average?

No need to be nasty or get personal. Keep things civil please

Thevampirenight

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well, for one thing I would like to see the end of the limited time system, make all items permanent maybe a few exceptions, main reason why they made the hero costume 2000 crowns is because its only going to be on there for four days, when it just should be a permanent addition. if they want money they got to stop being so generous to subs, and giving them 1500 only 500 should be given, that way it encourages people to buy crowns in order to spend money and it gives them more money, that way they can do away with limited time system, if people want a white bear and black bear, they should be able to buy it, any time they want to. As for the mind shriven skin they would make a fortune if that was a permanent time item. Name change and one time class change, would also bring in a fortune.

I am liking eso for the fact they care about the game are not as greedy, they are fixing stuff they can't do it as fast for consoles because they are forced by Microsoft and Sony to only do it at certain times. Well I play on pc so they will fix stuff on pc faster then consoles. Also they don't have as many devs to work on stuff and are busy.
I do agree there needs to be changes, but yeah yelping about it does not help either.

people want to feel like they are the special snowflake and the limited time offer helps them in 2 ways, they get a item which another can't buy after time elapsed. with the limited time ZoS is able to get more money for the same item in a shorter period of time and continueing to do so with new items.

They want to make everyone feel like a speical snow flake, and lol I don't care if they want to be special we are all speical in our own way, now everyone should get a chance at everything that was put out. It would make them get more money, allowing them to improve the game and items like the 2000 dollar hero costume would not cost as high if they changed the way they do things. As far as I know they got new managment and devs working on new content. They have done mostly well so far. Not everything will be to peoples liking. But in order for them to make a good profit, they need to change the game just a bit adding the loyaltiy rewards system. They really want to stay by a sub based system they can do that, and also give rewards for doing it as well.

daemonios

Cazzy wrote: »

I spend my 1500 crowns on the monthly store additions. It's one of the ways I support the game, which I say in the letter.

If you already subscribe, you don't need to spend your crowns in order to support the game. I'm strongly opposed to the crown store model, have been a subscriber from early access on PC, and am sitting on 22k+ crowns because I refuse to validate the microtransactions model.

Cazzy wrote: »

Plus with no warning on the cost of the costume I was unable to save in advance. Therefore, I would be expected to pay for 3000 crowns just to buy the outfit.

That is precisely what you get with microtransactions. Artificial scarcity, short deadlines for special offers to catch people off guard (i.e. low on crowns and needing to top up their accounts to grab those exclusive pixels).

To be fair, ESO isn't the WORST microtransactions-based game ever. But the seeds of something very rotten are there.

Cazzy

daemonios wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

I spend my 1500 crowns on the monthly store additions. It's one of the ways I support the game, which I say in the letter.

If you already subscribe, you don't need to spend your crowns in order to support the game. I'm strongly opposed to the crown store model, have been a subscriber from early access on PC, and am sitting on 22k+ crowns because I refuse to validate the microtransactions model.

Cazzy wrote: »

Plus with no warning on the cost of the costume I was unable to save in advance. Therefore, I would be expected to pay for 3000 crowns just to buy the outfit.

That is precisely what you get with microtransactions. Artificial scarcity, short deadlines for special offers to catch people off guard (i.e. low on crowns and needing to top up their accounts to grab those exclusive pixels).

To be fair, ESO isn't the WORST microtransactions-based game ever. But the seeds of something very rotten are there.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I've been reconsidering spending any more money tbh. I've just won a court case so can afford to continue making my own games now. It may be near the time to say "...and thanks for all the fish."

Gidorick

Maverick827 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

As much as I love ESO and I adore the Tamriel ZOS has created, the pressure they are under from the MMO side of this community and from the investors

I wouldn't throw "the MMO community" in there. MMO players almost universally dislike "cash shops."

We've just come to a point where you unfortunately have to regard some cash shops as "well, at least it's not as bad as [some other game]."

I think the kind of items in ESO's cash shop are fine, but the prices are way too high in a lot of cases.

The things I am pointing to by saying "The MMO side of the community" isn't so much the cash shop... There is a broader issue that underlies ESOs design because of having to cater to MMO players. Issues I think would dissolve if ZOS had designed ESO closer to the TES games from which it was birthed.

There is a much longer rant bubbling underneath my comments that I'm not going to stir because it wouldn't really be productive.

Gidorick

daemonios wrote: »

If you already subscribe, you don't need to spend your crowns in order to support the game. I'm strongly opposed to the crown store model, have been a subscriber from early access on PC, and am sitting on 22k+ crowns because I refuse to validate the microtransactions model.

You, sir, have my utmost respect and admiration for being able to do this @daemonios .

Thevampirenight

daemonios wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

I spend my 1500 crowns on the monthly store additions. It's one of the ways I support the game, which I say in the letter.

If you already subscribe, you don't need to spend your crowns in order to support the game. I'm strongly opposed to the crown store model, have been a subscriber from early access on PC, and am sitting on 22k+ crowns because I refuse to validate the microtransactions model.

Cazzy wrote: »

Plus with no warning on the cost of the costume I was unable to save in advance. Therefore, I would be expected to pay for 3000 crowns just to buy the outfit.

That is precisely what you get with microtransactions. Artificial scarcity, short deadlines for special offers to catch people off guard (i.e. low on crowns and needing to top up their accounts to grab those exclusive pixels).

To be fair, ESO isn't the WORST microtransactions-based game ever. But the seeds of something very rotten are there.

There is quite a few worse micro transactions in mmos compared to Eso. Like for example Sto. Sto every ship worth having costs real money in order to own for yourself, they don't even give the other two factions the same love as the feds. But benfits that you can get it all for free, it just takes so much work and grinding to do so. But still lots of greed in sto.
Swtor requires you to be sub in order to do anything and you can't even have full currency gain without it and quest rewards you don't get those without sub. They even force you to buy emotes if you don't have the means to sub, and its all random in which emotes you get. Now Eso is not as greedy as the other games out there and is probably one of the reasons why it is considered to be the best mmorpg out there right now.
Other companies are greedy, compared to Eso so be glad for what you have it could be worse.

daemonios

Gidorick wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

If you already subscribe, you don't need to spend your crowns in order to support the game. I'm strongly opposed to the crown store model, have been a subscriber from early access on PC, and am sitting on 22k+ crowns because I refuse to validate the microtransactions model.

You, sir, have my utmost respect and admiration for being able to do this @daemonios .

I sincerely wish more people would. In-game stores are everywhere because most players don't realise they will pay far more than buying or subbing. If that weren't the case, ESO wouldn't have changed - ZOS wouldn't switch models to make LESS money, would they?

Thevampirenight

daemonios wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

If you already subscribe, you don't need to spend your crowns in order to support the game. I'm strongly opposed to the crown store model, have been a subscriber from early access on PC, and am sitting on 22k+ crowns because I refuse to validate the microtransactions model.

You, sir, have my utmost respect and admiration for being able to do this @daemonios .

I sincerely wish more people would. In-game stores are everywhere because most players don't realise they will pay far more than buying or subbing. If that weren't the case, ESO wouldn't have changed - ZOS wouldn't switch models to make LESS money, would they?

They where planing most likely to change the model to buy to play ever since beta. It was obvious were either going buy to play or free to play. Now for sure, they are making lots of money off of the consoles and the seperate servers soon they are adding a japan Server so yeah they would make money of that. But Yeah I like having a crown store, I just don't like the limited time crownstore items. I think it should be permanent crown store items and only permanent crownstore items.

I don't care about people wanting to be special snowflakes getting what others cannot. I would rather see them limiting the crowns sub gets, to 500 like I said in a post above, and them adding a loyaltiy system, but keeping the crownstore. That way we all can get what we want, and not being forced to wait in the hopes they would release the items once again. For a limited time. Everyone will buy something or anything from the crownstore, thus giving them more money. If they keep the items in crownstore. They would make a good flow of money in my opinion.

Rosveen

Gidorick wrote: »

On a more personal note... I'm very slowing being turned off of ESO. Mechanics are getting added that is making ESO act more like an action/arcade type game than an RPG and then there are mechanics and features that I would love to see in ESO that I'm coming to realize will never be part of the ESO experience.

As much as I love ESO and I adore the Tamriel ZOS has created, the pressure they are under from the MMO side of this community and from the investors to make SHORT TERM money is leading to a focus, direction, and a game that is off-putting to me. I'm not at the point of walking away, but things like portable crafting stations (a datamined item which I hope is never included in ESO), the abandonment of Justice System PVP, the inclusion of a passive only skill line for the Thieves Guild (which seems to be a copy/paste of the Legerdemain passives), and the lack of any narrative choice in the DLC (we MUST be a thief in the Thieves Guild DLC) does more to convince me that ESO will never be, and doesn't aspire to be, the game I was hoping it would be.

Oh, and I fully acknowledge that the blame for my expectations lie squarely on my slumped shoulders.

I understand your general feelings, but one part I don't quite get. We never had a choice in previous TES games either. Skyrim tried to give us one regarding the Dark Brotherhood, but it was executed rather poorly (fault of the heavy hand-holding that game suffered from). So I normally wouldn't mind the lack of choice because it's exactly what I learned to expect from TES. If TG and DB were parts of the base game, it wouldn't be a problem.

Of course, if we have to pay 2000 crowns, we might expect more than a one-sided storyline... But then, why buy it at all if you aren't a thief? That's like complaining a PvP DLC is poorly thought out because it forces you to PvP.

Acrolas

Zenimax's venture capitalists don't give a flying *** about a costume. They care about that nice return on investment every time a game pack drops. Because that's Zenimax's only real weakness - they have a slower than average production schedule.

But if you think your boycott of a costume is going to somehow hurt the company or its parts, then you don't really have a comprehension of how privately-owned company finances work. They're swimming in development funds, and they only really need to return 20% to 50% annually to be in good standing across the board.

We're not the special snowflakes. The special snowflake was the person who gave them $1.2M in venture capital last June. Want to be a special snowflake? Be an investor. I'm sure somebody might put more value in Gidorick's fat stack of fan fiction if it had a few million dollars attached to it. But it doesn't. So it's just fan fiction.

But being a loud fan doesn't get you anywhere except super butthurt when things don't go your way. Sometimes you just have to lean back and realize that they know what they're doing, with or without you. If that makes you less of a fan, that's probably for the best. There's a very fine line between love and hate, after all...