What are these dueling rules?

Lucky28

So, i always lose one on one fights. Mostly because i am limiting myself and second guessing myself because i am trying to observe rules that i do not know, as a result i just flop. So, i thought i'd rectify this.

what is considered cheap and fair play in 1v1?.

KenaPKK

Don't use Reverb. Don't use Overload. Don't use Harness if you're a sorc. Don't use Mark or Cloak if you're a Nightblade also versus a Nightblade and the other Nightblade doesn't have Mark. Don't use special potions (those other than simple resource pots or tripots) unless your opponent okays it. Don't LoS. Block + jump before you start fighting. Make sure your opponent is following the same rules as you. If he's not following some of the above, then *** it. Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

Soulac

KenaPKK wrote: »

Don't use Reverb. Don't use Overload. Don't use Harness if you're a sorc. Don't use Mark or Cloak if you're a Nightblade and the other guy doesn't have Mark. Don't use special potions (those other than simple resource pots or tripots) unless your opponent okays it. Don't LoS. Block + jump before you start fighting. Make sure your opponent is following the same rules as you. If he's not following some of the above, then *** it. Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

Please use overload

Teargrants

Rule 1: Have 20 people in stealth with Meteor.

Rule 2: Meteor.

Lyrander

Teargrants wrote: »

Rule 1: Have 20 people in stealth with Meteor.

Rule 2: Meteor.

Looooool

MountainHound

What about shield breaker?

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

MountainHound wrote: »

What about shield breaker?

I'm afraid you can't remove everything you don't like from duels.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Rule 69: If you loose you pay for the meal and drinks at the bar.

Hope ya'll like bread



#SpidermanThread

Cinnamon_Spider

This is why I don't like dueling. Unless a skill is bugged, you should be able to use what you want.

Don't use overload? Get out of here with that BS.

Derra

Everything apart from intentionally abusing bugs is fair game imho.

I consider all the axeploiters running around atm not worth a duel for example. That´s in the same ballpark as doublemundus or magelight on overlol bar.
Reverb bash once - fine - spamming it until i slide on the ground - not so much.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Don't use Reverb. Don't use Overload. Don't use Harness if you're a sorc. Don't use Mark or Cloak if you're a Nightblade also versus a Nightblade and the other Nightblade doesn't have Mark. Don't use special potions (those other than simple resource pots or tripots) unless your opponent okays it. Don't LoS. Block + jump before you start fighting. Make sure your opponent is following the same rules as you. If he's not following some of the above, then *** it. Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

Don´t use special potions - like what? Is this serious? If you´re not using detect potions against a NB you literally never come close to kill them.
I agree my personal cc immunity + detect + overload is a little cheesy, but hey... Never heared that one.

Takllin

Yeah the Axes thing, no bueno.

Not only is it 100% proc, it also bypasses all mitigation.

Then again I don't duel because of silly crap like this. So much broken/unbalanced/unwritten rules and the game just wasn't designed for it.

Joy_Division

KenaPKK wrote: »

Don't use Reverb. Don't use Overload. Don't use Harness if you're a sorc. Don't use Mark or Cloak if you're a Nightblade also versus a Nightblade and the other Nightblade doesn't have Mark. Don't use special potions (those other than simple resource pots or tripots) unless your opponent okays it. Don't LoS. Block + jump before you start fighting. Make sure your opponent is following the same rules as you. If he's not following some of the above, then *** it. Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

I think I'd prefer uncivil duels where I can use my actual abilities.

But I don't duel precisely because of these unwritten rules and expectations that others expect me to follow in order to be...um..."civil".

Cinnamon_Spider

Derra wrote: »

Everything apart from intentionally abusing bugs is fair game imho.

I consider all the axeploiters running around atm not worth a duel for example. That´s in the same ballpark as doublemundus or magelight on overlol bar.
Reverb bash once - fine - spamming it until i slide on the ground - not so much.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Don't use Reverb. Don't use Overload. Don't use Harness if you're a sorc. Don't use Mark or Cloak if you're a Nightblade also versus a Nightblade and the other Nightblade doesn't have Mark. Don't use special potions (those other than simple resource pots or tripots) unless your opponent okays it. Don't LoS. Block + jump before you start fighting. Make sure your opponent is following the same rules as you. If he's not following some of the above, then *** it. Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

Don´t use special potions - like what? Is this serious? If you´re not using detect potions against a NB you literally never come close to kill them.
I agree my personal cc immunity + detect + overload is a little cheesy, but hey... Never heared that one.

He's still salty over the fight he lost with me when I used that combo.

Shelgon

kena pls, no overload? i've never heard that being a rule. Harness isn't used in sorc fights because they take way too long. i've heard mark not being allowed, but I don't think there's an agreed rule about it, IIRC most NB fights start with both NBs marking each other, no? Also, I think the only pots that shouldn't be used in a duel is detect, immovable, and invisibility pots. crit, damage, and speed pots im pretty sure are allowed, but if your opponent doesnt have any pots, you should respect that and not use pots.

Crown

There are rules to duels?

The only one I've ever followed was "Don't use bugged skills / exploits".

Everything in your arsenal should be fair game.

Dead is dead. Points are points.

Takllin

Crown wrote: »

There are rules to duels?

The only one I've ever followed was "Don't use bugged skills / exploits".

Everything in your arsenal should be fair game.

Dead is dead. Points are points.

Problem is people are immature and whiny and think that anything that you use to kill them is bugged/exploit. It's a very grey area.

Crown

Takllin wrote: »

Problem is people are immature and whiny and think that anything that you use to kill them is bugged/exploit. It's a very grey area.

I'll clarify:

1. Don't floppy fish them with the power bash bug.
2. Don't perma-cc them with the fear bug.
3. Don't dual-proc or triple-proc evil (or camo) hunter with that bug.
4. Don't hit them for 100k damage with the escalating det bug.
5. Don't knock them into the floor with the knock down bug.
6. Don't give them fall damage with the knock up bug.
7. Don't use the double-break 20 second cc immunity bug.
8. Don't use the double proc absorb magic bug.
9. Don't use the shield stack bug to stack the same spell's shield values (instead of replace the shield).

That's what I mean by don't use bugs or exploits.

Using an immovable pot is not exploiting.

Takllin

Crown wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Problem is people are immature and whiny and think that anything that you use to kill them is bugged/exploit. It's a very grey area.

I'll clarify:

1. Don't floppy fish them with the power bash bug.
2. Don't perma-cc them with the fear bug.
3. Don't dual-proc or triple-proc evil (or camo) hunter with that bug.
4. Don't hit them for 100k damage with the escalating det bug.
5. Don't knock them into the floor with the knock down bug.
6. Don't give them fall damage with the knock up bug.
7. Don't use the double-break 20 second cc immunity bug.
8. Don't use the double proc absorb magic bug.
9. Don't use the shield stack bug to stack the same spell's shield values (instead of replace the shield).

That's what I mean by don't use bugs or exploits.

Using an immovable pot is not exploiting.

I understand what you mean, but the vast majority would add a lot of things or even take things off of that list. It's all subjective.

Cinnamon_Spider

Takllin wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Problem is people are immature and whiny and think that anything that you use to kill them is bugged/exploit. It's a very grey area.

I'll clarify:

1. Don't floppy fish them with the power bash bug.
2. Don't perma-cc them with the fear bug.
3. Don't dual-proc or triple-proc evil (or camo) hunter with that bug.
4. Don't hit them for 100k damage with the escalating det bug.
5. Don't knock them into the floor with the knock down bug.
6. Don't give them fall damage with the knock up bug.
7. Don't use the double-break 20 second cc immunity bug.
8. Don't use the double proc absorb magic bug.
9. Don't use the shield stack bug to stack the same spell's shield values (instead of replace the shield).

That's what I mean by don't use bugs or exploits.

Using an immovable pot is not exploiting.

I understand what you mean, but the vast majority would add a lot of things or even take things off of that list. It's all subjective.

How is it subjective? Either a skill works as intended, or it doesn't. Don't use skills that aren't currently working as intended.

Takllin

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Problem is people are immature and whiny and think that anything that you use to kill them is bugged/exploit. It's a very grey area.

I'll clarify:

1. Don't floppy fish them with the power bash bug.
2. Don't perma-cc them with the fear bug.
3. Don't dual-proc or triple-proc evil (or camo) hunter with that bug.
4. Don't hit them for 100k damage with the escalating det bug.
5. Don't knock them into the floor with the knock down bug.
6. Don't give them fall damage with the knock up bug.
7. Don't use the double-break 20 second cc immunity bug.
8. Don't use the double proc absorb magic bug.
9. Don't use the shield stack bug to stack the same spell's shield values (instead of replace the shield).

That's what I mean by don't use bugs or exploits.

Using an immovable pot is not exploiting.

I understand what you mean, but the vast majority would add a lot of things or even take things off of that list. It's all subjective.

How is it subjective? Either a skill works as intended, or it doesn't. Don't use skills that aren't currently working as intended.

Cin, go read over your Camo Hunter thread....then ask me the same question....How many people in there were adamant that Camo Hunter is WAI and shouldn't be changed? Yet we are in agreement there that it is in fact not WAI and needs a fix.

Last week while King Richard was hosting his 2v2 dueling tournament, he adamantly defended the use of Reverb and tried to explain how it was in fact WAI, yet the vast majority I'd say disagree and think it's broken.

tonemd

KenaPKK wrote: »

Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

Cinnamon_Spider

Takllin wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Problem is people are immature and whiny and think that anything that you use to kill them is bugged/exploit. It's a very grey area.

I'll clarify:

1. Don't floppy fish them with the power bash bug.
2. Don't perma-cc them with the fear bug.
3. Don't dual-proc or triple-proc evil (or camo) hunter with that bug.
4. Don't hit them for 100k damage with the escalating det bug.
5. Don't knock them into the floor with the knock down bug.
6. Don't give them fall damage with the knock up bug.
7. Don't use the double-break 20 second cc immunity bug.
8. Don't use the double proc absorb magic bug.
9. Don't use the shield stack bug to stack the same spell's shield values (instead of replace the shield).

That's what I mean by don't use bugs or exploits.

Using an immovable pot is not exploiting.

I understand what you mean, but the vast majority would add a lot of things or even take things off of that list. It's all subjective.

How is it subjective? Either a skill works as intended, or it doesn't. Don't use skills that aren't currently working as intended.

Cin, go read over your Camo Hunter thread....then ask me the same question....How many people in there were adamant that Camo Hunter is WAI and shouldn't be changed? Yet we are in agreement there that it is in fact not WAI and needs a fix.

Last week while King Richard was hosting his 2v2 dueling tournament, he adamantly defended the use of Reverb and tried to explain how it was in fact WAI, yet the vast majority I'd say disagree and think it's broken.

True. People will defend anything that gives them an unfair advantage. I know I was guilty of that before the shield nerfs.

The last time I dueled, it was all stam DKs using axes. smh

ku5h

KenaPKK wrote: »

Don't use Reverb. Don't use Overload. Don't use Harness if you're a sorc. Don't use Mark or Cloak if you're a Nightblade also versus a Nightblade and the other Nightblade doesn't have Mark. Don't use special potions (those other than simple resource pots or tripots) unless your opponent okays it. Don't LoS. Block + jump before you start fighting. Make sure your opponent is following the same rules as you. If he's not following some of the above, then *** it. Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

Is tis a joke!

Kova

So, the rules I follow in formal dueling are:

1. Blow ulti before a fight (that way you can't ult bomb right off the bat and say you won)
2. Block jump when ready
3. Don't line of sight

1 is subjective, and 2&3 are big problems for first time duelists. I can't tell you how many times I crit health someone that hides behind a tree in a duel.

Another issue is the location of a duel. Dueling in high traffic areas is annoying and rarely respected, but there are few locations that refuse an advantage to any class.

Nifty2g

Personally if I had it my way I'd say remove the toxic play pvp brings from duels
1 shield that everyone has access to
no potions
don't start with an ultimate
no exploits

tonemd

How about no weapons and no clothes. Has anyone even explored the fisticuffs mechanic?

Crown

tonemd wrote: »

How about no weapons and no clothes. Has anyone even explored the fisticuffs mechanic?

Next guild vs guild we should have a fisticuffs round!

@Jules make it so?

BigTone

KenaPKK wrote: »

Don't use Reverb. Don't use Overload. Don't use Harness if you're a sorc. Don't use Mark or Cloak if you're a Nightblade also versus a Nightblade and the other Nightblade doesn't have Mark. Don't use special potions (those other than simple resource pots or tripots) unless your opponent okays it. Don't LoS. Block + jump before you start fighting. Make sure your opponent is following the same rules as you. If he's not following some of the above, then *** it. Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

The only thing I agree with here is reverb and LoS. Everything else is fair game. The special potion thing is a joke. If I am going up against a magblade best believe I'm using a fancy ass detect pot and harness then proceed to overload his face off if he/she is not using harness as well.

The reverb is out of control though. If there is one way for me to lose respect for someone it is them using reverb right now, duel or not.

Part of the reason i don't duel often is the qq when I beat someone or the ridiculous rules they expect me to follow without informing me.

Overload is fine
Axes are fine
Mark is fine
Harness is fine
Pots of any kind are fine

No reverb cheese

But alas, this is only my opinion.

Inig0

BigTone wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Don't use Reverb. Don't use Overload. Don't use Harness if you're a sorc. Don't use Mark or Cloak if you're a Nightblade also versus a Nightblade and the other Nightblade doesn't have Mark. Don't use special potions (those other than simple resource pots or tripots) unless your opponent okays it. Don't LoS. Block + jump before you start fighting. Make sure your opponent is following the same rules as you. If he's not following some of the above, then *** it. Kill his ass however you have to. These are the rules of a civil duel.

The only thing I agree with here is reverb and LoS. Everything else is fair game. The special potion thing is a joke. If I am going up against a magblade best believe I'm using a fancy ass detect pot and harness then proceed to overload his face off if he/she is not using harness as well.

The reverb is out of control though. If there is one way for me to lose respect for someone it is them using reverb right now, duel or not.

Part of the reason i don't duel often is the qq when I beat someone or the ridiculous rules they expect me to follow without informing me.

Overload is fine
Axes are fine
Mark is fine
Harness is fine
Pots of any kind are fine

No reverb cheese

But alas, this is only my opinion.

BigTone
Big cheese
Big QQ
Big opinions
BigTone

le fin

KenaPKK

Oh snap I did forget the axe bug. The only time that using a bugged axe bleed would be ok is if you're dueling someone else who is also using it, and they do not have another weapon to switch to. Using axe bleed is a fast way to lose friends.

I'll clarify on Overload. Using Overload for its third skill bar is fine. However, using Overload as your dps kill condition is discouraged for two reasons: it creates a skill floor discrepancy, and it lends itself to hard counters. Basically, it's an overtly simple skill for the sorc to use, yet is quite punishing to play against (pew pew 12k light attacks will 2-3 shot you after one mistake). Overload attacks deal more damage than a shield or heal will mitigate, and you can only roll dodge so many times... Ezareth taught me at length how to beat an Overload sorc by rotating dodge roll, cloak force miss, and Healing Ward + block to mitigate his hits, but god those fights take forever......and I have zero margin for error while he could do the fight one-handed. Overload is also hard countered by reflects, making those fights one sided in the other direction.

Structured duels are designed to pit player skill and complex, creative builds against each other. Duelists refrain from slotting hard counters and other abilities with limited counterplay in an effort to ensure the victor is the more mechanically skilled player, not the one using the ability with the least counterplay. In open world, all abilities are fair game, but duels are not open world.

Our list of imbalanced abilities to avoid using in duels is subjective, but our dueling communities, namely Legend and Mighty, have composed this list after countless fights and extensive collaboration between some of the most experienced players in the game. Sorry if your favorite ability is on the list, but if it is, it's there for a reason.

BigTone wrote: »

Part of the reason i don't duel often is the qq when I beat someone or the ridiculous rules they expect me to follow without informing me.

If they don't lay down rules before the fight, then all is fair game. We all saw Bulbi's 1v1 video last week. ^^ The rules I gave the OP are those used by the two big dueling guilds. That doesn't mean anyone else is obligated to use them.

caeliusstarbreaker

Only rules I take to the table when dueling.

1. Whatever you pvp with in open world skill wise.
2. Block double jump means let's do this
3. Honor no potion requests if your adversary has none.