animation cancel, what advantage does it offer?

cyx54tc

I have seen too many ppl crying about animation canceling. but personally I don't think it really make much difference since skills have 1s GCD, meaning that even if you cancel the animation you still have to wait 1s before you can cast the next one.

Based on my understanding the best you can do is light attack -> cancel into skill -> cancel into bash. But for people who don't use shield, bash is pretty useless and waste of stamina.

So overall the actual gain of animation cancel is pretty much free light attack between skills and...maybe you can move away a little bit faster?? Did I not understand animation canceling right or is there a way to by pass the 1s GCD with it??

FullBlownBeast

Allows people to output dps than might be intended. For example with S&S, LA+Ransack+Bash has dps potential that can rival two handed. IDK if devs take into consideration animation cancel when balancing damage of skills.

Drakilian

Dunno what beautiful world you live in where a one second global cool down exists, but can I get a ride there?

cyx54tc

Drakilian wrote: »

Dunno what beautiful world you live in where a one second global cool down exists, but can I get a ride there?

donno if that's sarcasm or not but the 1s GCD does exist based on my own experiment and from what others said.

Acrolas

It gives people something to talk about after the game dies, as in, threads about how animation canceling killed ESO.

So we have at least 10 good years of endgame after the server goes offline.

Drakilian

cyx54tc wrote: »

Drakilian wrote: »

Dunno what beautiful world you live in where a one second global cool down exists, but can I get a ride there?

donno if that's sarcasm or not but the 1s GCD does exist based on my own experiment and from what others said.

There's definitely a global cool down but I'm almost certain it's less than 1 second. Haven't done any testing but I'll have to to see if that's true, haha.

cyx54tc

Acrolas wrote: »

It gives people something to talk about after the game dies, as in, threads about how animation canceling killed ESO.

So we have at least 10 good years of endgame after the server goes offline.

the thing is, I always run into ppl who whisper me after they died says something like " you **** exploiter casted 5 wb in 1s using animation cancel". Then I reviewed the recording, the fight lasted around 7s and I casted 3wb. It happens too frequent to ignore tbh.

Korah_Eaglecry

This is an issue stemming from bad players relying too much on the Death Recap.

People are relying less and less on whats going on before/during/after a fight to analyze what they did and didnt do and the situation in general. Instead they look at the Death Recap that simply does nothing more than lay out the last few actions that contributed to the death. Instantly equating what they see on the Death Recap with the instance they died.

These are the same people stomping their feet over WB and NBs. Its just an extension of those same arguments. Now its Animation Cancelling and Macros. Notice a pattern here? They dont give up on the notion that they were beat by a better, more skilled opponent. They simply move on to other arguments to save their egos and remain in denial.

Add in some trolls looking to get a kick out of the forum community catching fire over the latest drama. Some attention-*****s knowing theyll get a few pages of responses out of the flavor of the week drama. Players who hope to create enough of a firestorm to get ZOS to make changes to the game in their favor. And a solid crowd of forum goers here to watch the fireworks with a very simple if not completely wrong understanding of the game. Grasping desperately on to the idea that something has been unfair for them, something they've suspected all along but couldnt put their finger on, being whatever this flavor of the week drama just happens to be.

remilafo

Animation cancelling is a Big advantage in this game, saying that it makes no or little difference just sounds like you are not the competitive pvp or pve dps type..

light or medium weaving is super essential to a skilled dps.

without talking about actual numbers here, three big advantages or weaving are

- Ultimate generation
- weapon enchant procs
- Resource sustain

so good luck

dday3six

It offers the ability to maximize actions per second, this increases both damage and healing output. Light and Heavy attacks trigger weapon enchants, and build ultimate as well.

WillhelmBlack

About 8k DPS on some peoples rotation.

Surviving longer than 1 sec in PvP. Being able to burst past a players health before they can break CC.

Basically, if you don't use it you're at a significant disadvantage in PvE and free AP in PvP unless you have 30k health or 30k damage shield.

Steel_Brightblade

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

This is an issue stemming from bad players relying too much on the Death Recap.

People are relying less and less on whats going on before/during/after a fight to analyze what they did and didnt do and the situation in general. Instead they look at the Death Recap that simply does nothing more than lay out the last few actions that contributed to the death. Instantly equating what they see on the Death Recap with the instance they died.

People are reading the death recap because thanks to animation canceling they can't actually see what's hit them as, guess what, there was no animation to show it.

Korah_Eaglecry

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

This is an issue stemming from bad players relying too much on the Death Recap.

People are relying less and less on whats going on before/during/after a fight to analyze what they did and didnt do and the situation in general. Instead they look at the Death Recap that simply does nothing more than lay out the last few actions that contributed to the death. Instantly equating what they see on the Death Recap with the instance they died.

People are reading the death recap because thanks to animation canceling they can't actually see what's hit them as, guess what, there was no animation to show it.

Funny I thought that was lag. Sorry, that was last weeks excuse.

old_mufasa

remilafo wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a Big advantage in this game, saying that it makes no or little difference just sounds like you are not the competitive pvp or pve dps type..

light or medium weaving is super essential to a skilled dps.

without talking about actual numbers here, three big advantages or weaving are

- Ultimate generation
- weapon enchant procs
- Resource sustain

so good luck

It has nothing to do with not know its an advantage.. its trying to down play it and lie about its effects on the game so they can justify it so people don't look to close and see how stupid a mechanic it is....

It should be action cancelling.. you do a different move mid cast of another it cancels the 1st one and starts the 2nd skill you hit.. this stacking skills to hide them in side the animation of another skill is just bad game play...

Robotmafia

i still think it adds an additional level of skill to the game... instead of just spaming 1-2 skills and waiting for the global CD you have to work on your timing and rotation, which in the beginning isnt that easy and depending on how complex your rotation is becomes even more complex... this obviously more so in pve since fights last longer and your rotation becomes more important.. some skills you use it some you dont.. some builds use light or medium weaves... i personally find it a nice mechanic players can choose to learn...

Steel_Brightblade

Robotmafia wrote: »

i still think it adds an additional level of skill to the game... instead of just spaming 1-2 skills and waiting for the global CD you have to work on your timing and rotation, which in the beginning isnt that easy and depending on how complex your rotation is becomes even more complex... this obviously more so in pve since fights last longer and your rotation becomes more important.. some skills you use it some you dont.. some builds use light or medium weaves... i personally find it a nice mechanic players can choose to learn...

This would all be valid if there was no such thing as macros, since there are this added skill layer is "activate macro" one button spam.

Septimus_Magna

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

i still think it adds an additional level of skill to the game... instead of just spaming 1-2 skills and waiting for the global CD you have to work on your timing and rotation, which in the beginning isnt that easy and depending on how complex your rotation is becomes even more complex... this obviously more so in pve since fights last longer and your rotation becomes more important.. some skills you use it some you dont.. some builds use light or medium weaves... i personally find it a nice mechanic players can choose to learn...

This would all be valid if there was no such thing as macros, since there are this added skill layer is "activate macro" one button spam.

That doesnt mean the animation canceling mechanic is bad, just because some cheating gankers use macro's.

Xantaria

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

i still think it adds an additional level of skill to the game... instead of just spaming 1-2 skills and waiting for the global CD you have to work on your timing and rotation, which in the beginning isnt that easy and depending on how complex your rotation is becomes even more complex... this obviously more so in pve since fights last longer and your rotation becomes more important.. some skills you use it some you dont.. some builds use light or medium weaves... i personally find it a nice mechanic players can choose to learn...

This would all be valid if there was no such thing as macros, since there are this added skill layer is "activate macro" one button spam.

Nobody uses MAcros Stop this ***.

Lyrander

You can cancel the 1 Sec gcd.
With the right macro you can Spam a skill a few times in 1 sec.

I am able to Spam WB 3 times in one second. I know Player can do more than that though.
Im not saying to get rid of animation canceling completly. Just fix the GCD lol.

For those who are in denial: there is proof enough on yt.

This is not the only problem with canceling though...

dday3six

Lyrander wrote: »

You can cancel the 1 Sec gcd.
With the right macro you can Spam a skill a few times in 1 sec.

I am able to Spam WB 3 times in one second. I know Player can do more than that though.
Im not saying to get rid of animation canceling completly. Just fix the GCD lol.

For those who are in denial: there is proof enough on yt.

This is not the only problem with canceling though...

Lying is not helping anything. Macros cannot bypass the game's programming, they cannot bypass the GCD on skills. Why don't you link some of this so called proof, or better yet post a video of yourself doing in on several random PVE mobs.

Brrrofski

Well firstly, everyone can do it. Just need to learn. So everyone has the capability.

Honestly, if they took it away it would take away from the game in general. Everything would be so slow.

I'm on xbox, so macro aren't a thing for us.

Steel_Brightblade

Brrrofski wrote: »

Well firstly, everyone can do it. Just need to learn. So everyone has the capability.

Honestly, if they took it away it would take away from the game in general. Everything would be so slow.

I'm on xbox, so macro aren't a thing for us.

Wrong, guy I spoke to last well got the xbox elite pad and has his animation canceling programmed to one button and was demonstrating "how cool" it is.

My problem with animation canceling is not that its difficult or awkward but that it takes away from the experience when you can't see why your hurt until your dead due to animations not being shown, that and people claiming its skill to hit one button which I do find amusing.

SemiD4rkness

While someone is using rally I can use rally, vigor and shuffle in the same time. It gives a huge advantage.

willymchilybily

remilafo wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a Big advantage in this game, saying that it makes no or little difference just sounds like you are not the competitive pvp or pve dps type..

light or medium weaving is super essential to a skilled dps.

without talking about actual numbers here, three big advantages or weaving are

- Ultimate generation
- weapon enchant procs
- Resource sustain

so good luck

I admitt fully to not reading the details of proposed changed so could be talking nonsense, but what i heard second hand about time of animation and allowing it to finish and in what situation. It sounds like they are preventing:

• People spamming the same hard cast skill repeatedly, or with block/bash cancle to reduce the animation time.
• Possibly preventing heavy weaving with cast skills like WB, snipe, frags, flurry etc which allows the heavy attack to "charge" within the animation of the casting skill.

what it sounds like will still be possible is:

• weaving medium attacks in between skills (you dont need to animation cancel to do this just release fire, the animation finishes launching the medium attack). Particularly if instant cast skills are being weaved with.

so from the PvE point of view i really don't think it should affect DPS to any great extent for magicka classes, its mostly stamina classes that are affected. (afaik) because few people hard cast frags while weaving heavy destro. and i AFAIK the same is true of dark flare. But this is not being done on its own its in tandem to other changes so hopefully stamina wont need to rely on such mechanics to get out mediocre dps.

I'm with the OP. from my understanding of the proposed change, i really dont see it making a difference to the majority of PvE. and in PvP i think the benefits out weigh the negatives.

Robotmafia

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

i still think it adds an additional level of skill to the game... instead of just spaming 1-2 skills and waiting for the global CD you have to work on your timing and rotation, which in the beginning isnt that easy and depending on how complex your rotation is becomes even more complex... this obviously more so in pve since fights last longer and your rotation becomes more important.. some skills you use it some you dont.. some builds use light or medium weaves... i personally find it a nice mechanic players can choose to learn...

This would all be valid if there was no such thing as macros, since there are this added skill layer is "activate macro" one button spam.

well i personally dont use macros or feel the need 2... macros can be an issue even without spell weaving

Rune_Relic

Theres several issues for me;

1. All reward and no risk.
2. The true cost has been compromised (cost/dps).
3. The true completion time has been compromised (cost/dps).
4. It turns the game into whackamole which people with arthritis and such will have great problems with managing (unless they use macros).
5. It encourages the use of macros. Especially in lag. Where a 2500msec latency means you are guaranteed death to a 5 piece combo you new nothing about.
6. The attack speed vs latency is having a monumental impact on combat.
7. No proper feedback on cancelled attacks.
8. It reduces the TTK and makes it an even greater issue.

This game is not supposed to be an FPS of the likes of Halo and COD.
This is not designed to be a wham bam thank you mam KDR focused game.
The DEVS have already said this.
Which means its supposed to be tactical with time to act and react.
Its also supposed to be an inclusive game and not an exclusive one which bars people from playing for any reason.

VincentBlanquin

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Theres several issues for me;

1. All reward and no risk.
2. The true cost has been compromised (cost/dps).
3. The true completion time has been compromised (cost/dps).
4. It turns the game into whackamole which people with arthritis and such will have great problems with managing (unless they use macros).
5. It encourages the use of macros. Especially in lag. Where a 2500msec latency means you are guaranteed death to a 5 piece combo you new nothing about.
6. The attack speed vs latency is having a monumental impact on combat.
7. No proper feedback on cancelled attacks.
8. It reduces the TTK and makes it an even greater issue.

This game is not supposed to be an FPS of the likes of Halo and COD.
This is not designed to be a wham bam thank you mam KDR focused game.
The DEVS have already said this.
Which means its supposed to be tactical with time to act and react.
Its also supposed to be an inclusive game and not an exclusive one which bars people from playing for any reason.

game, set, match

keep up good work rune relic

Casdha

I can't prove it, but from my own play in PvE and what I see from my side, I don't think folks are breaking canceling GCD but that GCD doesn't work the way it is suppose to.

If you hit WB,WB,WB each one of them has a GCD but if you time it just right you can get the GCDs to start running at the same time where the blows hit at 1.3, 1.5, and 1.7 seconds from when you called for the first WB. The way it should work the second GCD shouldn't start until the first one has ended and the hits should be no faster than 1.3, 2.6 and 3.9 seconds from the first called WB. (numbers may not be exact, used just for example)

This might also be part of what they are talking about when they say animation prioritization. Because if you take the above example and mix in a light attack or two and another skill, you can do some serious damage in the same amount of time it takes some skills to cast one time, and that is just one example. I can pull something off similar sometimes manually when gathering Rubedo leather and an Echatere seems to go down in one or two hits or in just a second or two.

An example of a prioritization that seems to be broken in the other direction is Snipe on a bow. I can hit Snipe then Weapon swap, then another skill on my 1st bar that is on the same key as Snipe I get Snip, Snip. Either the Weapon swap never registers, since it is in the middle of the animation, or the second snipe cancels the weapon swap, I haven't figured out which it is yet.

AltusVenifus

can't everyone do it? Maybe the argument should be lower damage even more in pvp...

Asmael

EDIT : Remove the post

TipsyDrow

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

i still think it adds an additional level of skill to the game... instead of just spaming 1-2 skills and waiting for the global CD you have to work on your timing and rotation, which in the beginning isnt that easy and depending on how complex your rotation is becomes even more complex... this obviously more so in pve since fights last longer and your rotation becomes more important.. some skills you use it some you dont.. some builds use light or medium weaves... i personally find it a nice mechanic players can choose to learn...

This would all be valid if there was no such thing as macros, since there are this added skill layer is "activate macro" one button spam.

That doesnt mean the animation canceling mechanic is bad, just because some cheating gankers use macro's.

The problem with animation cancellation in a pvp context is it allows multiple skills to all land at virtually the same time without any chance of counter play. It may add a layer of skill to the game as you're learning how to do it but it completely negates other skills, like counterplay tactics. I'm not the best at it and I refuse to use my gaming mouse and keyboard for macros but when i pull it off almost perfectly.......that other person is most likely dead before they blink. No, they didn't see the lotus fan/LA/bash/cloak/concealed weapon/bash/concealed weapon/light attack/execute happen until it was to late. It needs fixed. All animations need to finish or the damage needs to not be applied. there, fixed.