Do you want to see BWB return to its former glory (pre-Orsinium)?

Alucardo

I was one of those in favour of introducing the new Orsinium battle levelling changes to Blackwater Blade, the non-vet campaign.
Little did I know the effect that would have on newer players, and how ridiculous the fights would turn out to be. No longer are the fights about skill, but how much DPS you can pump out in a short amount of time, and what gear you're wearing. Not very new-player friendly if you ask me.
BWB used to be one of the most balanced campaigns this game as ever seen, and now it's just another Azuras star without lag.
I miss it, a lot. So I'm wondering how many of you would like to see Blackwater go back to how it was pre-Orsinium, so you actually have time to enjoy your fights again, or whether you like it the way it is now. I guess another option is to introduce another campaign, but I think it'd be better all-round if we just had the old one back. Still, a new campaign is a good alternative.
Balance was so good back then I'd rip out my wallet and resub, just so I can live there until you fix the end game

Drakilian

Other (Please specify)

As I've said before, the ideal solution would be to keep current battle-levelling mechanics but making it so that the level and quality of the gear being used has no effect on the bonuses the gear provides, making amount of gold spent far less important in BwB than it is now. Sure, a few people might get a bunch of monster helms and agility rings and stuff at level ten but it's better than what we have now.

If this isn't an option however, I'd gladly go back to the old non-vet.

Valencer

Yes, I want it back to how it was

Pre-IC with no 50% damage reduction.

Soris

Yes, I want it back to how it was

In IC patch we had it best imo. Both for BWB and veteran campaigns for low level vets.
I remember I had much better stats with my vr4 dk and I could compete with vr16s even before the sets bonuses weren't counting on your stats. They made the 2nd, 3rd and 4th piece bonuses scale better with your battle leveling and cut the raw battle leveling numbers by some amount, but that didn't make it any better, my dk ended up with lower stats. And due to the fact that the new vr16 weapons/armors skyrocket your stats off the roof, lower level vets became just a cannon fodders in vet campaigns.
That's my gripe.

Soris

Yes, I want it back to how it was

However I just realised the thread is mainly for BWB battle levelling. Why did I wrote it here I have no idea lol.

Elsonso

Yes, I want it back to how it was

BwB was my old home back when I played in Cyrodiil. Sorry to hear that they wrecked it.

Forztr

Other (Please specify)

I want to see what its like after the champion points are removed because I think this alone will make things more like the old days.

The thing I like about the current system is that you now have some say in your stats but wouldn't mind if the gear quality and level was ignored by battle leveling so I could just craft a set of green level 10 stuff and be good to go until I vetted out.

AJ_1988

I would like to see more than 1 active campaign

Vaoh

Yes, I want it back to how it was

Yes, and immediately. Armor, weapons, CPs.... none of it really mattered much with pre-Orsinium battle scaling. You joined in and the only disadvantage to be had were a lack of skillpoints and locked skills due to being a low level, which made sense. Battles required skill.

Nowadays, I just need to level my character to lvl 15. Outfit them (any class, preferably DK or NB) with a two handed sword, 5x Hundings Rage, 3x any other set, and 3x weapon power/max stamina enchants. Everything blue quality. CPs for recovery and much more physical damage. Now Wrecking Blow will two-shot most players. If you're new to the game, chances are you will get frustrated immediately and leave. You have NO CHANCE against players with superior stats and CPs who have the resources to make set items.

ToRelax

No, I like the new battle level changes in non-vet

The new system isn't perfect specifically for Blackwater, but I'd take it over the old one any day.
Maybe there should be more limitations in form of hardcaps or effects of your gear, but it's way better than having mainly regen bonuses count, that drag on the fights even more than would be the case with the fixed large healthpools and low magicka/stamina/damage stats.

RoamingRiverElk

Other (Please specify)

No CPs, and a limit to how much weapon dmg and spell dmg you can have, maybe also a limit to max magicka and stamina.

Alucardo

Yes, I want it back to how it was

The thing I really enjoyed about the old system was that hybrid builds were totally viable. You'd see all kinds of setups. These days it's just max damage or gtfo and thanks for playing.
Still cool to hear other opinions. Keep 'em coming.

Rikumaru

No, but I'd like to see a new non-vet campaign added with legacy BWB battle levelling

I kinda like both versions of BwB. The new one is more fast paced than the last version of BwB and combat punishes mistakes more. The last version was more balanced and you could come up with many more builds plus the campaign felt more competitive to what it feels like now.

Cody

i dont hate it, but it seems like now its more about pumping out max DPS. Still better than the vet servers though, at least in BwB i dont have to deal with non-emp 27K damage shields.

Rikumaru

No, but I'd like to see a new non-vet campaign added with legacy BWB battle levelling

Cody wrote: »

i dont hate it, but it seems like now its more about pumping out max DPS. Still better than the vet servers though, at least in BwB i dont have to deal with non-emp 27K damage shields.

There are people who run with 26k - 30k shields with a huge magicka pool in non-vet.

Xarc

Other (Please specify)

I want to see bwb without CP and 100% dmg/heal.

Decayed_Inside

No, I like the new battle level changes in non-vet

Changes are awesome because now BWB is not a huge lie. Before it gave you a false sense of what pvp was. Maybe i agree it was more fun but then you get used to that and have a bad time in vet pvp. Better to adjust right off the bat imo.

allen-iverson

Yes, I want it back to how it was

The gear you're wearing in bwb simply matters too much now. People who are new to the game who are just getting an understanding of stats and builds will be at a severe disadvantage.

new players who don't have maxed crafters will always be screwed with the way it works now.

Mjollo

Other (Please specify)

I think it was perfect Pre-Imperial city. Last year between January through May-ish was the best IMO but i think the campaign would be better with that old system and a few more tweaks. All set pieces should matter but should be scaled to VR15 instead of having to change it out every 5-10 levels. Removal of a veteran system (Champion Points) from a non veteran system. would be best as well since it doesn't make sense anyways. And keeping the current 50% seems fine this meta as long as gear matters. When IC came out and 50% damage came out, it was absolutely at it's worst since it was nearly impossible for anyone without CP to do any DPS just to surpass player's health recovery.

Flaminir

They already said that it's not possible to change battle levelling on a 'per campaign' basis due to the way the whole thing is developed....

So it's a bit of a moot question really.

I'm personally ok with the way gear levels... BUT I do think they are going the correct way in taking CP out of the equation. 25% extra damage & mitigation just because you have several other vet characters... that's what I consider more unfair / game breaking. Remove that in BwB and it'll be a good half way house between how it is now & how it was back in the day.

kevlarto_ESO

Yes, I want it back to how it was

And hopefully when they turn off CP. BWB will be a fun place again and not a hive of wretched scum and villainy alt's with 501 cp rolling the new players with 0 cp.

Alucardo

Yes, I want it back to how it was

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

And hopefully when they turn off CP. BWB will be a fun place again and not a hive of wretched scum and villainy alt's with 501 cp rolling the new players with 0 cp.

Yeah, turning off CPs on nonvet will be a good start, but I just don't think it's going to be enough to make it a place for newbies to start. Old BWB was perfect.

Inarre

Other (Please specify)

Keep battle leveling, renove gear perks and cp point perks. New players need fun pvp to stick around and enjoy, not to get owned by some gold armored 501 champ point vet on their new level 10 alt for epeen points.

Alucardo

Yes, I want it back to how it was

Inarre wrote: »

Keep battle leveling, renove gear perks and cp point perks. New players need fun pvp to stick around and enjoy, not to get owned by some gold armored 501 champ point vet on their new level 10 alt for epeen points.

It was kind of like this in old BWB. The gear level, improvement and perks had no baring on your character, except the 5th piece of a set, which isn't necessarily OP. Because of this, the stats were very similar across the board.

EsoRecon

Other (Please specify)

Hardly do non-vet pvp and only care about vet pvp.

SturgeHammer

Other (Please specify)

It's hard for me to evaluate the post-orsinium battle leveling because of the champion system. If CP gets disabled in BWB in thieves guild, then we will really get to experience the new battle leveling without the base stat disparites that are present now.

Tombs_UDL

EsoRecon wrote: »

Hardly do non-vet pvp and only care about vet pvp.

Then why post?

Remove Champion Points asap and then see how it looks and feels before making any other changes, please.

Thanks.

JamilaRaj

Alucardo wrote: »

Balance was so good back then I'd rip out my wallet and resub, just so I can live there until you fix the end game

Battle levelling is now a tool for making DLC appealing to underleveled players, not a tool for equalizing chances in PvP regardless of levels or gear. Nobody gives a !@#$% about your sub; there is way more money to be had from selling DLC.

Drakilian

Other (Please specify)

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Balance was so good back then I'd rip out my wallet and resub, just so I can live there until you fix the end game

Battle levelling is now a tool for making DLC appealing to underleveled players, not a tool for equalizing chances in PvP regardless of levels or gear. Nobody gives a !@#$% about your sub; there is way more money to be had from selling DLC.

That's not true.

Veryc simple math: one DLC is released every quarter. One quarter is three months. The sub cost is 15$ a month, meaning that in the span of one quarter you will pay 45$.

Meanwhile, a single DLC is released every quarter. The DLC values are currently 2000, 2500, and 3000. So the average cost of the DLC is 2500 crowns, or 25$ (less if you count people buying the 5500:50 pack, which decreases the value of crowns by ~9 percent, bringing it down to ~23$.

Unless you count in mount or costume costs that come with the DLC (but could easily be developed and sold separately), or the few fools who will, for some incomprehensible reason, buy that worthless collector's edition, then the sub is clearly more profitable (by 20$ per quarter) than the DLC. I doubt adding in the costumes/mounts actually purchased would make up the difference, since the percentage of the player base buying those consistently remains small.

Point is, a single sub is worth more than a DLC. It is therefore in ZOS' best interest to maximize their number of subscriptions.

JamilaRaj

Drakilian wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Balance was so good back then I'd rip out my wallet and resub, just so I can live there until you fix the end game

Battle levelling is now a tool for making DLC appealing to underleveled players, not a tool for equalizing chances in PvP regardless of levels or gear. Nobody gives a !@#$% about your sub; there is way more money to be had from selling DLC.

That's not true.

Veryc simple math: one DLC is released every quarter. One quarter is three months. The sub cost is 15$ a month, meaning that in the span of one quarter you will pay 45$.

Meanwhile, a single DLC is released every quarter. The DLC values are currently 2000, 2500, and 3000. So the average cost of the DLC is 2500 crowns, or 25$ (less if you count people buying the 5500:50 pack, which decreases the value of crowns by ~9 percent, bringing it down to ~23$.

Unless you count in mount or costume costs that come with the DLC (but could easily be developed and sold separately), or the few fools who will, for some incomprehensible reason, buy that worthless collector's edition, then the sub is clearly more profitable (by 20$ per quarter) than the DLC. I doubt adding in the costumes/mounts actually purchased would make up the difference, since the percentage of the player base buying those consistently remains small.

Point is, a single sub is worth more than a DLC. It is therefore in ZOS' best interest to maximize their number of subscriptions.

Not my point though, as by "selling DLC" I mean directly or indirectly through subs as well; more precisely it does not matter which of these. Let me explain.
X players would sub if BWB did not suck; they prefer the old gear-does-not-matter battle levelling. Y players, who do not have max level on any of their chars, would buy DLC (or sub to get it); what they prefer regarding battle levelling does not matter (remarkably, they could prefer the old one too). There may be some overlapping, but let's just say Y is probably much higher number than X.
ZOS wants to release DLC. Typically, expansions add some content at the end of a game, i.e. so that players who kinda finished a game keep playing (and paying). That would however mean, in ESO, that Y players would not even consider buying DLC (or, again, sub for it), not even if there were superior rewards, not even if base game zones were obsoleted, because they simply could not play VR whatever new DLC zones with feeble non/low-vet chars. That would not fly with The Monetization Department, so the devs took what they had, the battle levelling system, and not only recycled it, but also tweaked; gear now matters because aside from unlocking skills, there would not be much to do in DLC if it did not. Exping a char itself, battle levelled anyway, is a bit moot.
So, the point is that ZOS can either make Alucardo and the rest of X players happy (and perhaps sub), or BWB suck but DLC buyable for Y players, which I think is well worth it.

As for value of subs, I would agree.