"Prioritization of animations during combat"

Jade1986

Anyone else notice this little tidbit in the preview for the thieves guild? Am I the only one reading this as they might finally get rid of animation cancelling?

Jade1986

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2016/01/20/thieves-guild-first-look

Shunravi

They arent getting rid of ac.

Jade1986

Shunravi wrote: »

They arent getting rid of ac.

They said they are going to make it so you can see the impact of the abilities used, so actually, they are, weaving will still be there, but you will now be able to see what is hitting you, instead of mystically dying from bad breath.

"We're not removing weaving, but improving the animations and responsiveness during combat so you can clearly see an ability's impact"

Soris

I think animation cancelling will be more slower or maybe a small cooldown on weaving. Just a thought.

Jade1986

Soris wrote: »

I think animation cancelling will be more slower or maybe a small cooldown on weaving. Just a thought.

That is what I am thinking, because if you are able to see the full animation, then there is no way the players will be able to attack the same speed they are now.

Angus

"We're not removing weaving, but improving the animations and responsiveness during combat so you can clearly see an ability's impact"

Or on the flip side, perhaps they'll be speeding up animations to fit within the ability's cooldown.

smacx250

In a previous ESO Live they teased this change. At that time they said they were not altering the functional effect of animation canceling, but were instead re-working the animations so that they would be more "smooth". I thought this to mean something like instead of one animation being abruptly cut-off to play the next action's animation, there would be some kind of transition between them. I guess we'll know "soon"!

cschwingeb14_ESO

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

sadownik

If they really want players to be able to see what skills are used against them then yes, some kind of cool-downs are imminent.

There is simply no way to secure the above with current ac.

NBrookus

"We wanted to make it more clear which attacks players are using, while preserving the responsiveness and feel of the combat system. The goal is that if an ability is successful, the player should always be able to see it impact (or launch in the case of projectiles). Under the new system, we are prioritizing the impact/launch of the first attack over the first few milliseconds of the wind up of the interrupting 2nd attack."

Sounds like they are going to clip the beginning of the second attack animation instead of clipping the end of the first.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/10506/Elder-Scrolls-Online-More-on-the-Thieves-Guild-DLC-with-Rich-Lambert.html

Cathexis

If gap closer root is any example of their concern for responsiveness, these words are much more ominous than they appear.

Drakilian

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

You say this like it's a bad thing? Animation cancelling is responsible for the strong majority of complaints about damage in this game, wouldn't be possible to get off 4-5 high damage attacks in less than a second if it wasn't a thing, meaning no "one-shots" (or seeming one-shots).

Waffennacht

Drakilian wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

You say this like it's a bad thing? Animation cancelling is responsible for the strong majority of complaints about damage in this game, wouldn't be possible to get off 4-5 high damage attacks in less than a second if it wasn't a thing, meaning no "one-shots" (or seeming one-shots).

I wish i could pull a trigger and button every .2 seconds... or that's lag, or PC, which... pc smh

Rohaus

Drakilian wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

You say this like it's a bad thing? Animation cancelling is responsible for the strong majority of complaints about damage in this game, wouldn't be possible to get off 4-5 high damage attacks in less than a second if it wasn't a thing, meaning no "one-shots" (or seeming one-shots).

This is a very ignorant statement that just continues to misinform those who want to buy into "Why they lost a fight".

If someone were able to get off 4 to 5 high damage attacks in less than a second, this would be cheating/hacking. Stop spreading this ignorant information and spend some more time understanding game mechanics.

It's not a hard thing to do to test it out yourself... heck, there are a great deal of videos on YouTube demonstrating weaving of abilities.

One of the easiest way to see what animation cancelling is all about is to test it out for yourself... go test it out on a NPC. Take one of your abilities that is instant and perform the following: Light attack, instant ability, bash. This is so very easy to perform once you practice it.

However, bash damage is only good if you use sword and board. But I just want you folks that are ignorant to the mechanics of the game to test this out so you understand...

Doesn't matter... as easy as it is to perform, these ignorant statements will still be regularly espoused because people don't want to take the time to LEARN.

Drakilian

Rohaus wrote: »

Drakilian wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

You say this like it's a bad thing? Animation cancelling is responsible for the strong majority of complaints about damage in this game, wouldn't be possible to get off 4-5 high damage attacks in less than a second if it wasn't a thing, meaning no "one-shots" (or seeming one-shots).

This is a very ignorant statement that just continues to misinform those who want to buy into "Why they lost a fight".

If someone were able to get off 4 to 5 high damage attacks in less than a second, this would be cheating/hacking. Stop spreading this ignorant information and spend some more time understanding game mechanics.

It's not a hard thing to do to test it out yourself... heck, there are a great deal of videos on YouTube demonstrating weaving of abilities.

One of the easiest way to see what animation cancelling is all about is to test it out for yourself... go test it out on a NPC. Take one of your abilities that is instant and perform the following: Light attack, instant ability, bash. This is so very easy to perform once you practice it.

However, bash damage is only good if you use sword and board. But I just want you folks that are ignorant to the mechanics of the game to test this out so you understand...

Doesn't matter... as easy as it is to perform, these ignorant statements will still be regularly espoused because people don't want to take the time to LEARN.

Well you're an *** aren't you? Or just truly terrible at animation cancelling, is my guess. Either way, you really shouldn't ever assume (and absolutely not state) someone is ignorant (like a complete ass) before actually finding out their thoughts on a subject. Have some *** courtesy. Now, i've heard yours and judge you to be lacking in practical experience concerning AC mechanics. Hear mine out, won't you?

I'd like to state right off that I consider myself a lesser animation canceller, and that there are much worse (not skilled, but greater abusers) of this system.

Now, here's a simple AC burst rotation that can be gotten off in two seconds or less when played right:

Stamina Dragonknight Drakilian (two-handed front, duel-wield back) approaches enemy.

Combat begins!

Drakilian uses - Flappy wings cancelled by swap into stampede

Opponent uses - buff of random nature (if NB then cloak) cancelled into roll dodge+heals.

AC rotation begins!

Drakilian uses - heavy attack duel wield (skip if cloaked NB) cancelled into steel tornado cancelled with a bash and weapon swap. This takes place in the span of ~.3 seconds.

Before the steel tornado daggers have flown out and struck the target (this part can't be cancelled though you're free to act while it happens), Drakilian prepares a second two-handed heavy attack cancelled into a wrecking blow, which is then double clipped by a second cancel in the form of a roll-dodge. The heavy attack hits at the same time as the steel tornado. The wrecking blow animation, clipped at both ends by the heavy attack and the roll dodge, will not actually visibly land on the opponent. Something about the game mechanics force the wrecking blow to continue at this point with it's normal timing but you maintain freedom of action. As a result you will hit him three-quarters of the way through the roll dodge.

Having purposely avoided using CCs up until now for the WB CC, Drakilian will be satisfied to see the opponent begin flying towards the position he roll dodged into. If the opponent's break-game is on point, they'll only take a cancelled heavy-attack/executioner before dodging and healing (if still alive, and Stam), cloaking and healing (if Nb), streaking and stacking (if sorc), heal-spamming (if magplar). If it's not on point or the CC is bugged then they'll take a heavy attack cancelled into an executionner cancelled with a bash and swap into another steel tornado cancelled into a bash. For overkill or just to let your opponent know you hate them, you can also use Dragon-leap at some point during this.

There is exactly one point during this entire cancelled rotation (which, can be done in far too short a time), where it can be interrupted, which is right before that roll dodge, during the wrecking blow. If you are CCed there then the opponent seizes the initiative and you have to switch to a more defensive play style. The roll dodge is, along with being a cancel, an attempt to avoid the CC an opponent will usually launch at this time. My point is, however, that in that rotation there are 7 points during which damage is received (heavy attack, steel tornado, bash, heavy attack, wrecking blow, heavy attack, executionner) if the opponent is working through the sluggish break free animations like a pro, and an additional 4-5 (heavy attack, steel tornado, bash-swap and either another heavy attack cancelled executionner or dragon leap) if the opponent is not on point with breaking free. Which should absolutely be considered, by the way, since breaking free is often a nightmare in the lagrich lands of Cyrodill. All of this happens in about two seconds, 2.5 if you include the opponent not breaking free in time.

Now, I repeat: I am far from the worst ("best", according to you) animation cancelling abuser out there. I consider myself a novice to the system. Taking that into consideration, I should like to point out that people who REALLY know how to abuse this can come up with much better and brutal rotations that include more cancels, points of damage and abilities. I gather from my existing lack of ability that others who are better versed can do better than me. So where I land on average two-three high damage attacks a second, I assume better players will land 4-5. Am I wrong? Please, explain why and how.

Solariken

Rohaus wrote: »

Drakilian wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

You say this like it's a bad thing? Animation cancelling is responsible for the strong majority of complaints about damage in this game, wouldn't be possible to get off 4-5 high damage attacks in less than a second if it wasn't a thing, meaning no "one-shots" (or seeming one-shots).

This is a very ignorant statement that just continues to misinform those who want to buy into "Why they lost a fight".

If someone were able to get off 4 to 5 high damage attacks in less than a second, this would be cheating/hacking. Stop spreading this ignorant information and spend some more time understanding game mechanics.

It's not a hard thing to do to test it out yourself... heck, there are a great deal of videos on YouTube demonstrating weaving of abilities.

One of the easiest way to see what animation cancelling is all about is to test it out for yourself... go test it out on a NPC. Take one of your abilities that is instant and perform the following: Light attack, instant ability, bash. This is so very easy to perform once you practice it.

However, bash damage is only good if you use sword and board. But I just want you folks that are ignorant to the mechanics of the game to test this out so you understand...

Doesn't matter... as easy as it is to perform, these ignorant statements will still be regularly espoused because people don't want to take the time to LEARN.

It seems to me you have never been the victim of (or figured out how to do) the Focused Aim exploit. The person you quoted is not spreading ignorant information. These kind of things exist and present an actual problem.

eliisra

I dont get this. Maybe I'm ***. But what's the point of "improving animations" when people will cancel them any way? I still wont be able to see when X is going to drop Wrecking Blow in my face lol.

Is this only some immersion/roleplay improvement like interior l(ag)ightning effects?

Is it related to how console lacks buff timers and therefore in need of more reliable or visual animations?

Will it have consequences on actual game play?

That's what I would like to know.

Jade1986

Rohaus wrote: »

Drakilian wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

You say this like it's a bad thing? Animation cancelling is responsible for the strong majority of complaints about damage in this game, wouldn't be possible to get off 4-5 high damage attacks in less than a second if it wasn't a thing, meaning no "one-shots" (or seeming one-shots).

This is a very ignorant statement that just continues to misinform those who want to buy into "Why they lost a fight".

If someone were able to get off 4 to 5 high damage attacks in less than a second, this would be cheating/hacking. Stop spreading this ignorant information and spend some more time understanding game mechanics.

It's not a hard thing to do to test it out yourself... heck, there are a great deal of videos on YouTube demonstrating weaving of abilities.

One of the easiest way to see what animation cancelling is all about is to test it out for yourself... go test it out on a NPC. Take one of your abilities that is instant and perform the following: Light attack, instant ability, bash. This is so very easy to perform once you practice it.

However, bash damage is only good if you use sword and board. But I just want you folks that are ignorant to the mechanics of the game to test this out so you understand...

Doesn't matter... as easy as it is to perform, these ignorant statements will still be regularly espoused because people don't want to take the time to LEARN.

If it were an intended combat mechanic there would be a tutorial for it , in game.

There is not.

Therefor it is not intended.

ZoS admitted it wasn't intended

ZoS said they didnt know how to fix it so the capitulated and "endorsed" their mistake.

ZoS is now trying to fix it and people are getting mad.

Boo hoo.

Derra

I really hope that dodgeroll will now properly dodge things missing you while in the dodgeroll anymation and not projectiles hitting you way after the animation ended

GreenSoup2HoT

Derra wrote: »

I really hope that dodgeroll will now properly dodge things missing you while in the dodgeroll anymation and not projectiles hitting you way after the animation ended

I don't get what your trying to say.

Your hoping dodge roll properly dodges thing's while rolling but also having projectile's hit you after the animation is complete?

I'm not really sure how dodge roll work's in the first place. You usually can still get hit right before the end of the animation or even stunned. It's fairly easy to time skill's after someone has started to roll.

The only reason i think you might not be hitting player's after their dodge roll animation is over is because of the slight chance that a stamina user is wearing the crusader set for 0.3 second's extra dodge when they roll.


I personally think this animation change is going to effect the broken animation's when you weapon swap. It also could let animation's still play out even if you have canceled them. Not really sure what to expect honestly.

Derra

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I really hope that dodgeroll will now properly dodge things missing you while in the dodgeroll anymation and not projectiles hitting you way after the animation ended

I don't get what your trying to say.

Your hoping dodge roll properly dodges thing's while rolling but also having projectile's hit you after the animation is complete?

I'm not really sure how dodge roll work's in the first place. You usually can still get hit right before the end of the animation or even stunned. It's fairly easy to time skill's after someone has started to roll.

The only reason i think you might not be hitting player's after their dodge roll animation is over is because of the slight chance that a stamina user is wearing the crusader set for 0.3 second's extra dodge when they roll.


I personally think this animation change is going to effect the broken animation's when you weapon swap. It also could let animation's still play out even if you have canceled them. Not really sure what to expect honestly.

Casts started or projectiles fired at the end of an opponents dodge animation are currently auto flagged as dodged even if the opponent is no longer in the dodge animation for over 1s after the projectile should theoretically hit them.

Due to this it´s possible to dodge up to 5 projectiles with one dodgeroll - which is equal to 5s of total dmg immunity.

Imho dodge should only evade things "hitting" you while your character is in the animation and not a projectile started to cast while you´re mid roll that has 1.5s traveltime afterwards.

Jade1986

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I really hope that dodgeroll will now properly dodge things missing you while in the dodgeroll anymation and not projectiles hitting you way after the animation ended

I don't get what your trying to say.

Your hoping dodge roll properly dodges thing's while rolling but also having projectile's hit you after the animation is complete?

I'm not really sure how dodge roll work's in the first place. You usually can still get hit right before the end of the animation or even stunned. It's fairly easy to time skill's after someone has started to roll.

The only reason i think you might not be hitting player's after their dodge roll animation is over is because of the slight chance that a stamina user is wearing the crusader set for 0.3 second's extra dodge when they roll.


I personally think this animation change is going to effect the broken animation's when you weapon swap. It also could let animation's still play out even if you have canceled them. Not really sure what to expect honestly.

Casts started or projectiles fired at the end of an opponents dodge animation are currently auto flagged as dodged even if the opponent is no longer in the dodge animation for over 1s after the projectile should theoretically hit them.

Due to this it´s possible to dodge up to 5 projectiles with one dodgeroll - which is equal to 5s of total dmg immunity.

Imho dodge should only evade things "hitting" you while your character is in the animation and not a projectile started to cast while you´re mid roll that has 1.5s traveltime afterwards.

I started playing a Templar recently, and I actually have experienced what you are talking about. Stam based characters can rolllol their way to town when combined with potions and evade damage far too much with this little unforseen bug.

SmalltalkJava

They might make it like gap closures. All of a sudden your in superspeed and zoom super speed animation

acw37162

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

This ^^

It's going to look cooler and feel smoother but it's going to be slower. I would bet my winning lottery ticket on it.

Minno

acw37162 wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

This ^^

It's going to look cooler and feel smoother but it's going to be slower. I would bet my winning lottery ticket on it.

And not that there's anything wrong with this.
It's essentially a nerf on instant cast spells to allow channels/long cast or duration spells a chance to compete via their animation system; a system shown since start of the game.

RinaldoGandolphi

Minno wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

This ^^

It's going to look cooler and feel smoother but it's going to be slower. I would bet my winning lottery ticket on it.

And not that there's anything wrong with this.
It's essentially a nerf on instant cast spells to allow channels/long cast or duration spells a chance to compete via their animation system; a system shown since start of the game.

Animation Canceling, while perfectly ok does need dialed back a bit. Channeled abilities and long cast spells are just too much at a disadvantage right now in comparison. I think a game that relies on animations to give user feedback, being able to see those animations or some other form of feedback being put into the game for the user just makes for a better UI overall.

Jade1986

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

This ^^

It's going to look cooler and feel smoother but it's going to be slower. I would bet my winning lottery ticket on it.

And not that there's anything wrong with this.
It's essentially a nerf on instant cast spells to allow channels/long cast or duration spells a chance to compete via their animation system; a system shown since start of the game.

Animation Canceling, while perfectly ok does need dialed back a bit. Channeled abilities and long cast spells are just too much at a disadvantage right now in comparison. I think a game that relies on animations to give user feedback, being able to see those animations or some other form of feedback being put into the game for the user just makes for a better UI overall.

My thoughts exactly.

SmalltalkJava

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a conflict between showing the impact of one ability and the start of the next ability, if you are doing any animation cancelling. Rich's comment is full of corporate speak, and I worry that we will be more locked into our animations than before

This ^^

It's going to look cooler and feel smoother but it's going to be slower. I would bet my winning lottery ticket on it.

And not that there's anything wrong with this.
It's essentially a nerf on instant cast spells to allow channels/long cast or duration spells a chance to compete via their animation system; a system shown since start of the game.

Animation Canceling, while perfectly ok does need dialed back a bit. Channeled abilities and long cast spells are just too much at a disadvantage right now in comparison. I think a game that relies on animations to give user feedback, being able to see those animations or some other form of feedback being put into the game for the user just makes for a better UI overall.

100% agree.

Tankqull

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

They might make it like gap closures. All of a sudden your in superspeed and zoom super speed animation

apropos super speed:

affecting someone with razor caltrops I (not sure if other leves do aswell) while beeing under eclipse of a tower caster, knocks you ~200m backwards ... (was kicked from the top lvl of arrius lumber tower behind the house between arrius keep and the tower.