Power Surge vs. Degeneration (morph of Entropy)?

pala_the4th

What do you think? The entropy morph sounds promising but it works for 14 seconds vs the surge which is 30 seconds, and you have fire it at someone to work. In practice, I found surge to work better for some reason.
What do you think?

Septimus_Magna

Personally I prefer Power Surge because it lasts longer, this allows you do spend more time dealing dmg which means higher dps.

As for the healing aspect of these skills I also prefer Power Surge but thats probably because Im running with 64% spell crit (provided by Julianos and Inner Light).

Its pretty easy to calculate the average healing for both these skills.

Dmg: 8k
Crit-Dmg: 12k
Spell-Crit: 64%

Average-Dmg: 8k x 0,36 + 12k x 0,64 = 2,88k + 7,68k = 10,56k

Average Degeneration healing (only weapon attacks + Overload):
15% chance to heal for 115% of the caused dmg.

10,56k x 1,15 = 12,1k healing
Average heal: 12,1k x 0,15 = 1,82k per weapon attack

---
Average Power Surge healing (only crits):
heal for 40% of dmg caused by crits

Dmg-Heal: 0k
Crit-Dmg: 12k x 0,40 = 4,8k
Average heal: 0k x 0.36 + 4,8k x 0,64 = 3,1k per attack

The conclusion is that Power Surge will give you more healing, at least in PVE where crits are more reliable.

I know some sorcs who like to run both Degeneration and Power Surge on their Overload bar in PVP to get more healing while using Overload.

pala_the4th

The surge has weapon crit also. I am using thief mundus stone to increase my crit and my blue champ points are geared towards increased crit percentage and damage both for weapon and spell. I have radiant mage light as well. Though degeneration looks better on paper, Surge feels better during fights for some reason. For the ultimate, I have meteor and soul suck thingy, so no 3rd bar for me

Waffennacht

Surge feels better, i think, because you don't need a target.

With a higher crit I do prefer surge.

Entropy can give you more health or more weapon dmg too. With guild passives it becomes 2% what dmg? Vs 2% regen and 2% max magicka? There is also might of the guild passive, another 20% on next attack.

When combined I believe entropy morph is better for my tank build, gives me a reall strong Liquid Lightning dmg ticks, atm it gives me 8%health, but the 15% increase on weapon dmg is awfully tempting

Bfish22090

Power surge gives extra damage since its a sorc ability

Brrrofski

I go surge.

The empower on structured entropy is nice but it's a lot of casting to make most use of it. Using more magica, less time DPSing.

Even in pvp I go surge. Out of combat and doesn't break stealth.

Plus an extra sorc ability on the bar.

gurneyhalleck00

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Personally I prefer Power Surge because it lasts longer, this allows you do spend more time dealing dmg which means higher dps.

As for the healing aspect of these skills I also prefer Power Surge but thats probably because Im running with 64% spell crit (provided by Julianos and Inner Light).

Its pretty easy to calculate the average healing for both these skills.

Dmg: 8k
Crit-Dmg: 12k
Spell-Crit: 64%

Average-Dmg: 8k x 0,36 + 12k x 0,64 = 2,88k + 7,68k = 10,56k

Average Degeneration healing (only weapon attacks + Overload):
15% chance to heal for 115% of the caused dmg.

10,56k x 1,15 = 12,1k healing
Average heal: 12,1k x 0,15 = 1,82k per weapon attack

---
Average Power Surge healing (only crits):
heal for 40% of dmg caused by crits

Dmg-Heal: 0k
Crit-Dmg: 12k x 0,40 = 4,8k
Average heal: 0k x 0.36 + 4,8k x 0,64 = 3,1k per attack

The conclusion is that Power Surge will give you more healing, at least in PVE where crits are more reliable.

I know some sorcs who like to run both Degeneration and Power Surge on their Overload bar in PVP to get more healing while using Overload.

Totally agree. I switched to power surge and changed attributes to full magika. I have 65 pts so far in bastion for my ward so in PVE i'm sustaining good Damage and heals are coming back nicely.

Francescolg

Degeneration got nurfed, it used to give back HP with a 100% rate. Afterwards, less people used it.
The other morph is nice for "Healing over Time" builts. For a sorc, who already has his own class skill/buff + the 8% self-heal on crystal frags, you don't really need tha mage guild ability, except you like to combine the empower with distance skills (meteor, frags, etc.). Else, your self-healing is sufficient, as you can even have crytal fragments on both bars (! also the healing bar, so you pop shields + Healing over Time, while every 3-4 casts you get a CF for free. Sorc-battle-healer is incredible fun in pvp and, imo, OP in small skirmishes, if the players knows how to play their mage). No other class can heal and do that insane burst, combines. The only Problem is CC.

Tyrion87

I prefer Structured Entropy in combination with the Might of the Guild passive from the Mages Guild skill line. When I cast entropy first and activate the spell power buff, I cast crystal fraqs immediately after and when the damage buff from it occurs as well, it's omg so wonderful

Septimus_Magna

pala_the4th wrote: »

The surge has weapon crit also. I am using thief mundus stone to increase my crit and my blue champ points are geared towards increased crit percentage and damage both for weapon and spell. I have radiant mage light as well. Though degeneration looks better on paper, Surge feels better during fights for some reason. For the ultimate, I have meteor and soul suck thingy, so no 3rd bar for me

Weapon crit is useless if you're using a magicka based spells and staff, the staff attacks also scale off max magicka, spell dmg and spell crit. So for magicka builds its better to take Power Surge.

Thief mundus is definitely good.

Radiant Mage Light is the pvp morph, for pve dps Inner Light is a lot better (more magicka = more dmg and more resources).

Septimus_Magna

Francescolg wrote: »

Degeneration got nurfed, it used to give back HP with a 100% rate. Afterwards, less people used it.
The other morph is nice for "Healing over Time" builts. For a sorc, who already has his own class skill/buff + the 8% self-heal on crystal frags, you don't really need tha mage guild ability, except you like to combine the empower with distance skills (meteor, frags, etc.). Else, your self-healing is sufficient, as you can even have crytal fragments on both bars (! also the healing bar, so you pop shields + Healing over Time, while every 3-4 casts you get a CF for free. Sorc-battle-healer is incredible fun in pvp and, imo, OP in small skirmishes, if the players knows how to play their mage). No other class can heal and do that insane burst, combines. The only Problem is CC.

The Empowered buff is hard to use effectively in pve, if you have Liquid Lighting on the target it will use the Empowered buff before the Meteor hits.

For pvp its easier to use in combination with Cfrags, Curse or Proxi Det etc.

Uberkull

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I prefer Structured Entropy in combination with the Might of the Guild passive from the Mages Guild skill line. When I cast entropy first and activate the spell power buff, I cast crystal fraqs immediately after and when the damage buff from it occurs as well, it's omg so wonderful

This. No comparison in PvP. Structured Entropy is a fast cast dot that can proc crystal frag and takes very little Magika to cast. It gives 20% spell damage increase for 22 seconds, leeches health for heals, applies a damage dot and provides 8% health buff when slotted. For PvP, this is the choice.

AverageJo3Gam3r

uberkull wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I prefer Structured Entropy in combination with the Might of the Guild passive from the Mages Guild skill line. When I cast entropy first and activate the spell power buff, I cast crystal fraqs immediately after and when the damage buff from it occurs as well, it's omg so wonderful

This. No comparison in PvP. Structured Entropy is a fast cast dot that can proc crystal frag and takes very little Magika to cast. It gives 20% spell damage increase for 22 seconds, leeches health for heals, applies a damage dot and provides 8% health buff when slotted. For PvP, this is the choice.

Plus it procs might of the guild leading to more burst.

Mivryna

A good Crystal Frags crit instantly restores a huge chunk of my health.

Waffennacht

I don't find either of the heals from these moves as consistent enough to rely on, so I look at what you get besides the heals.

Both give 20% and last over 20 seconds...

Surge gets 2% for being a sorc move

That's it for surge (ignoring heals)

Structured entropy gives that same boost, very small dmg, but more importantly gives 2% magicka, 2% regen (mage guild passives), and might of the guild boost plus 8% health (though if you switch bars to a set with no health boosts then your health goes away)

Entropy is technically better when not relying on either move for heals.

For heals surge is obviously better

TheFamousMockingbird

Also note that with mage guild passives, Degeneration or Entropy is 1/3 the cost of Surge with slightly shorter duration.

I have swapped between them in pvp. I like the cheap cost and all the aforementioned benefits of entropy. I find that in pvp there is more crit resistance and uncrittable player shields which limits the dependable heal of the power surge.

In PvE I actually use both with surge on my Overload bar.

FriedEggSandwich

Entropy looks better on paper, Surge is easier to use in practice. The ease of use of surge might allow you more dps time, hard to prove though. I switched from degeneration to surge around 1.6 in an attempt to get better self healing to potentially counter shield-breaker. I don't notice the healing (my crit chance is 32%) but I still wouldn't go back to degeneration, surge is just so smooth to use, and stealth-proc'd frags are now a thing. Use what you prefer using.

aLi3nZ

I prefer surge because I can easily activate on my secondary bar to ensure its active at all times during fights where as entropy is a skill that requires you to target someone and seems like I would have to have it on my main bar, otherwise it would be too annoying to use. Power surge is my main method of healing as I don't use a restro staff and w 53% crit rating with this seems to work fine. I have noted that some elite players use entropy so I will be doing more testing with it in future to try get a good rotation going.

leepalmer95

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't find either of the heals from these moves as consistent enough to rely on, so I look at what you get besides the heals.

Both give 20% and last over 20 seconds...

Surge gets 2% for being a sorc move

That's it for surge (ignoring heals)

Structured entropy gives that same boost, very small dmg, but more importantly gives 2% magicka, 2% regen (mage guild passives), and might of the guild boost plus 8% health (though if you switch bars to a set with no health boosts then your health goes away)

Entropy is technically better when not relying on either move for heals.

For heals surge is obviously better

Surge lasts about 33 seconds doesn't it and can be self cast which is important.

Makkir

nevermind. got some misinformation