Constructive thread about lag and solutions

BalticBlues

Please be constructive in this thread,
so that it will not be closed as all the others...

On console launch, PvP was acceptable.
Later, with each patch and new network components, the lag got worse.

Today, the lag on consoles is unbearable with such results:
- game becomes a slideshow
- skills often do not work at al
- skill bar changes are ignored
- mounting often does not work at all, or people suddenly dismount
- graphics often are missing, sometimes people get stuck in loading ground textures
- game crashes often or has long loading screens
...

In the current PvP lag state, only DPS + one-button-mashing is reliable.
Skilled group fights, depending on single button presses, became impossible.

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So why does it get worse with each patch?

ZOS already gave us one reason: Increasing CP calculations demanding too many server ressources.
Therefore, please turn off the CP system at once in PvP, please.
Anything to improve the terrible lag is crucial so that PvP can survive now.

Other reason: Even simple buttons bar swaps need to be confirmed by the server. This is because some skills change the state of the player. Unfortunately, this interesting PvE design seems not compatible with lag-free PvP. If crucial button bar swaps are ignored by the server which is overwhelmed by one-button-mashing players, the entire skill system becomes a lottery. A lottery in which only one-butting-mashing wins.

To make the crucial button bars work reliable in mass PvP again, please either
- redesign the skill system for PvP so that buttons bar changes can happen remotely
- OR have different button processing queues on the servers with different priorities.

Suggestion: Button bar changes should have higher priority than other key presses and should always work, please.

Anhedonie

-Remove line of sight check for AOE
-Remove AOE cap
-Bring back 666 deers.

This will be more than enough, to completely eliminate the lag, I assure you.

Wollust

how do they explain the lag before the CP system was introduced? What a bunch of bullcrap.

#removeAoEcaps

The Uninvited

Wollust wrote: »

how do they explain the lag before the CP system was introduced? What a bunch of bullcrap.

#removeAoEcaps

They said that was because they were tracking xp. First for CP, later on for the V16 increase.

JD2013

Champion point free campaigns are coming with Thieves Guild base patch.

Casdha

Not sure about Console, but for me on PC I can attribute Lag, Stutter, Rubber banding, and most other problems like this to 3 things:

Problems with my ISP, MM refreshing in the background, Virus scan running in the background.

That said, I've become convinced that some unscrupulous folks have figured out how to spam the server with inputs to introduce lag for others around them. Maybe some kind of add-on that scans for info around them at a high rate or something.

Why do I think this, because it happens to me sometimes in off hours when I'm gathering mats in PvE zones. I can tell when someone comes into zone (or cell) just by the fact that my fps drops to around 10 to 15 from 50 to 70. If I run the opposite direction and put enough distance from where I was then it goes back to normal. I've tried hunting for these folks but I can never get close enough to pick up a name.

I can be around 20 or 30 folks and not have a problem, but sometimes it just happens and I look around and I might find one or two characters off in the distance, if I run the opposite way it stops.

Even if it ain't on purpose, I still think it may be because of something they are running.

*re-positions tinfoil hat*

Edit: a little change to wording

LunchBoxChewy

Casdha wrote: »

That said, I've become convinced that some unscrupulous folks have figured out how to spam the server with inputs to introduce lag for others around them. Maybe some kind of add-on that scans for info around them at a high rate or something.

This 100%. There are certain times in Cyrodiil when you come across a large group and there is absolutely no lag. Other times you come across a "certain" group of players and the lag sky rockets to an unplayable level and with this "certain" groups playstyle they are able to persist through the lag.

It's from these groups stacking 30+ players on crown and all spamming abilities over and over and over and over.

xellink

Casdha wrote: »

That said, I've become convinced that some unscrupulous folks have figured out how to spam the server with inputs to introduce lag for others around them. Maybe some kind of add-on that scans for info around them at a high rate or something.

Why do I think this, because it happens to me sometimes in off hours when I'm gathering mats in PvE zones. I can tell when someone comes into zone (or cell) just by the fact that my fps drops to around 10 to 15 from 50 to 70. If I run the opposite direction and put enough distance from where I was then it goes back to normal. I've tried hunting for these folks but I can never get close enough to pick up a name.

Even if it ain't on purpose, I still think it may be because of something they are running.

Agreed, It is quite specific when lag spike happens, there are days i play 4 hours straight with no lag spike. Find the add-on/macro and ban it. It may also be related to weaving macros. Macros may be hurting the game and i expect more pvp players to use macros than in pve and thus the discrepancy in performance in different modes of the game.

Lenikus

Problem: "Lag".

Cause: Big AoE / DoT skills that get too much calculations done server side.

Solution: Change the way the server/game works on multiple scenarios.

How and when to do it: ....No ETA.

BalticBlues

Casdha wrote: »

I've become convinced that some unscrupulous folks have figured out how to spam the server with inputs to introduce lag for others around them.

Sending too many inputs to the server indeed could introduce lag for other players.

Example: Imagine a player sending 5 button events per second to the server, either by a fast thumb or with a macro. The server input queue then quickly fills, for example with WB events, and at a certain point the server discards events.

If at the same time another player just sends a crucial single button event into the queue, for example a skill bar change, this event can be discarded. Result: the button mashing player wins the button lottery, because he has much more events in the queue and some WBs of him certainly hit while the other player is waiting forever for his skill bar change that never happens... death.

Solution: Instead of just one input queue for all players,
please use one dedicated input queue for each player.
Then pull only one key/event per time from these player queues.

This way all players have a chance to get their events into the game, not only button mashers and people with perfect ping. If one player then fills his personal input queue entirely up, discard only his events, not the events of other players with reasonable input.

Casdha

The easy way to get some of the macro players would be to just watch their videos and I mean keep an eye on the skill bar not how cool their game play looks.

Folks that abuse macros want to be recognized and they provide plenty of proof if you watch the right thing.

If ZOS suspects them then it is just a matter of logging their inputs. Inputs evenly spaced every time in a rotating order,,,,, Macro. I will state that it depends on their use and who is using them to whether it is offensive or not. Believe it or not, some folks who play games physically can't or still don't know how to type. I will always stand by the use of macros for emotes. (not saying I still use them but they should be allowed)

You can see ZOS's stance on Gaming Keyboards and the use of macros Here. Also, notice that the profile for my keyboard is still there for anyone to grab and look at, or use if they wanted to break the rules.

BalticBlues

Casdha wrote: »

The easy way to get some of the macro players would be to just watch their videos

I do not think that ZOS has time for that.

The input solution should be automatic and adjustable.
An elegant way for this could be a limited, dedicated input queue for each player.

If each of these limited, dedicated input queues per player for example would allow about two button entries per second, disregarding more entries, macro users sending 5 events per sec would get 3 events per sec discarded and other players would not be affected anymore.

Currently, all player input seems to be fighting for server time, result:
The more button events you send, the better are your chances to win the button lottery.
If only 2 button events per second&user would be used, all people could have the same chances.
Instead of mashing into their controller/keyboards, people again could play calm and skillful.

Casdha

BalticBlues wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

The easy way to get some of the macro players would be to just watch their videos

I do not think that ZOS has time for that.

The input solution should be automatic and adjustable.
An elegant way for this could be a limited, dedicated input queue for each player.

If each of these limited, dedicated input queues per player for example would allow about two button entries per second, disregarding more entries, macro users sending 5 events per sec would get 3 events per sec discarded and other players would not be affected anymore.

Currently, all player input seems to be fighting for server time, result:
The more button events you send, the better are your chances to win the button lottery.
If only 2 button events per second&user would be used, all people could have the same chances.
Instead of mashing into their controller/keyboards, people again could play calm and skillful.

Yea I thought of limiting inputs, but where do you draw the line. 500 milliseconds, 300 milliseconds, 50 milliseconds. 60 words per minute equates to about 4 or 5 keystrokes per second. I wouldn't want to place a disadvantage to players with real skill. If you set it too high double tap for dodge would not work at all.
Edit: unless double tap is done locally and sent as a single input.

Toc de Malsvi

Wouldn't just making both bars give static buffs based on slotted rather than based on what bar is active eliminate the bar changing problem?

LunchBoxChewy

I'll just leave this here. My mom always told me not to run up the stairs.