How do people play magicka dks?

Angus

laced wrote: »

ZoS is starting to remind me of BW when it comes to classes, and DKs are the Commandos of this game, they are good in pve, so they pretty much say *** them for pvp. Blows my mind to be honest.

DKs are doing fine in PvP - don't think anybody was arguing with that.

It's the traditional magicka DK (which was grossly OP not long ago) that's now sub-par in inexperienced hands.

Jade1986

Angus wrote: »

laced wrote: »

ZoS is starting to remind me of BW when it comes to classes, and DKs are the Commandos of this game, they are good in pve, so they pretty much say *** them for pvp. Blows my mind to be honest.

DKs are doing fine in PvP - don't think anybody was arguing with that.

It's the traditional magicka DK (which was grossly OP not long ago) that's now sub-par in inexperienced hands.

Stam dks sure. I have one of those, they are beast. But my magicka dk....Im trying, but compared to my stam / mag nb, my mag sorc and my mag templar he doesn't even hold a candle to them.

KozawahGaming

phillyproduct wrote: »

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not?

Magic dk is probably the best dps(not counting sorc overload) in the game pve wise period

Great aoe, great dots, buff to dots, whips hits hard great sustain, great ult gen with weaving attacks, amazing excute with destro staff.

Not sure if yall serious right now

Dark elf is a must though but dark elf dk is top 3 dps in pve

This is a PvP forum thread.

Angus

laced wrote: »

Angus wrote: »

laced wrote: »

ZoS is starting to remind me of BW when it comes to classes, and DKs are the Commandos of this game, they are good in pve, so they pretty much say *** them for pvp. Blows my mind to be honest.

DKs are doing fine in PvP - don't think anybody was arguing with that.

It's the traditional magicka DK (which was grossly OP not long ago) that's now sub-par in inexperienced hands.

Stam dks sure. I have one of those, they are beast. But my magicka dk....Im trying, but compared to my stam / mag nb, my mag sorc and my mag templar he doesn't even hold a candle to them.

Yeah, I hear you.

I don't touch mine unless I'll have a couple or more other good players grouped with me... in which case, I'd rather have him than any of my NBs or sorcs. I suppose the templar is less selfish to bring, but raising hell with the mag DK is a pretty damn good time with wings/talon/invasion spam.

Praeficere

Your Magicka DK is level 25, where do you get this from? You've said you've played a Stamina DK which I accept but a Magicka DK plays completely differently.

laced wrote: »

DKs are not supposed to escape, they are supposed to stand their ground, unfortunately you cant even do that because our survivability abiliites are pretty lack luster.

laced wrote: »

they are good in pve, so they pretty much say *** them for pvp. Blows my mind to be honest.

You can't play something completely new for 5 minutes when you're used to different playstyles on different classes and talk as if you've played it for 5 years. It's fine opening a thread asking for help but don't post this nonsense.

Lack of abilities/passives as with any other class would have at level 25 and most importantly, lack of experience and skill with a Magicka DK. Not saying you're not a skilled person, I wouldn't know. However, you haven't had enough time nor experience to develop skill (being learned ability) for this class variation.

I will admit, a Magicka DK relies on higher level morphs and passives much more than the other 3 (Flame Lash, Battle Roar etc.) to reach a reasonable competitive level. Once you unlock those and others, you will notice a huge power-spike. Unlike a Stamina DK, a Magicka DK is wholly reliant on class abilities. There's not much you can do until then.

Until that point, how's your gear? Battle levelling is a bit naff at the moment, if you have purple gear for your level, you have crazy-high stats. If you're a few levels out or have blue gear, it's dreadful.

There are still a few light armour DKs around but most are in favour of heavy for the block cost reduction and synergy between resistance and Impen. Light armour DKs play with a S/B + Resto typically, using Healing Ward and/or Blessing of Restoration. Heavy armour DKs tend to go double S/B, having higher HP on their back-bar using Structured Entropy and 2 Endurance (at your level you can use 2 Ashen) for a much stronger Dragon Blood heal. You'll need to focus on regen/cost reduction while you're levelling to get maxed battle roar, so slap on appropiate level jewellery with sustain enchants and use the Atronach stone.

You'll have to run with a small group until you have the passives and abilities you need, or you could go around heavy attacking on a destro with Molten.

Tomato

They enjoy being punching bags

Islyn

phillyproduct wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not?

Magic dk is probably the best dps(not counting sorc overload) in the game pve wise period

Great aoe, great dots, buff to dots, whips hits hard great sustain, great ult gen with weaving attacks, amazing excute with destro staff.

Not sure if yall serious right now

Dark elf is a must though but dark elf dk is top 3 dps in pve

Hrrr tell me more about this sustain of which you speak because using kena with top level gear (julianos, torug and kena or 2 kena depending on the healer and willpower) and Max cp in Regen without ele drain sustain is a pain.

1. Complaining about sustain when using molag kena is a unfair argument so i wont even address that.
2. Depending on group(my tank runs orb healer does too from time 2 time) other sorcs or dk's means ele drain will be up all the time.
3. Resto back back bar

What? Using bis is unfair argument?
Orbs are not ele drain. Ele is destro skill support should run not dps.
Are you suggesting Regen mana with a resto staff with absorb magicka glyph on or something?? I already specified or 1 kena depending on healer.

Point being needing to use orbs or ele drain (you say is up all the time up there) does not = good sustain.

If we had good sustain with just the one kena, we wouldn't need orbs.

You made a statement of that magicka dks have good sustain.

I asked you to tell me about that and you didn't.

I don't think magicka dks have good sustain at all if they Minmax.

I already have 100cp in Regen most the rest in cost reduction so already have 25% better Regen.

If I change my armor/mundus/jewelry glyphs or whatever so more mana and Regen then I have much less spell Dmg and crit. Right now I have Max of one and almost Max of the other (2 of my pieces are infused rather than all divines).

I can post char sheet later but for now at under 800 mana regen dks when min maxing (even one piece kena), do not have good sustain.

Lil_Willie

Mag DK = Sustain

Chadwikid

^^^LOL no lol^^^

Angus

Lil_Willie wrote: »

Mag DK = Sustain

Chadwikid wrote: »

^^^LOL no lol^^^

To be fair, magicka DK does get a decent bit of sustain through Earthen Heart passives - stamina regen while blocking via igneous shield spam, and the ever thrilling battle roar.

Plus increased healing received, plus increased health regeneration, plus whip health return, plus inhale health return, plus green dragon blood (for even more stam and health regen)....

Resto staff heavy attacks for magicka regen, paired with wings and/or igneous shield to keep you alive, can keep you sustained for a surprisingly long time, too. (Sometimes).

Cody

Well based on my experience with using one in BwB, it seems to suck. I can take on ranged people just fine thanks to reflective scales,( i do not mean kill, the damage I can put out is too low for that.) but when I get jumped by a 2H or any kind of melee player(which seems to be the majority nowadays) i am almost defenseless. The only decent melee ability a mana DK has is flame whip, but that is nowhere NEAR as powerful or effective as uppercut, or even flurry. and against the templar spear ability, all I can manage is being stun locked and running out of stamina almost instantly due to me being forced to CC break/roll, the same applies to pretty much any time I get jumped via melee. And the damage I can dish out is nowhere near as high as a sorc or a NB, if it werent't for reflective scales my DK would have been torn apart by ranged NBs and sorcs. A sorc can eat all of my damage up with their damage shield, a NB can just fear me and cloak, forcing me to use 1/3rd of my stamina to break the CC, then pound me with veiled strikes and strifes. The best I can do is CC them and try to keep behind them while using my damage abilities, but that usually fails.

Dragon blood also seems lackluster. It is NOT restoring me for 33% of missing health, not even close, I barely get any heal at all from it. The Dots can be easily negated (which is a shame because they actually are pretty decent) and the class has slow mobility. I could last longer in heavy armor, but then my damage would really suck, and if I equip medium, I would be a stam build or a hybrid of some sort, not a mana build.

Maybe its due to inexperience I have with the class, but I have had only irritating experiences with a mana DK and I advise staying away from it until some things change. I myself have deleted my mana DK. I am sure people have found great use for it, but I cannot. Maybe its because of the way the class is designed, idk. Perhaps I am more comfortable with the way a sorc or a NB is played. It is fun rushing into battle with scales, trolling the ranged players, but I cannot seem to get many results from it. Its great in PvE though.

Angus

Cody wrote: »

Well based on my experience with using one in BwB, it seems to suck. I can take on ranged people just fine thanks to reflective scales, but when I get jumped by a 2H or any kind of melee player(which seems to be the majority nowadays) i am almost defenseless. The only decent melee ability a mana DK has is flame whip, but that is nowhere NEAR as powerful or effective as uppercut, or even flurry. and against the templar spear ability, all I can manage is being stun locked and running out of stamina almost instantly due to me being forced to CC break/roll, the same applies to pretty much any time I get jumped via melee.

Running out of stamina & then CC to death has always been their primary weakness, even in the good old days. Worse now, since you can't block for long.

Used to be that igneous shield could soak up most of the wrecking blows, but that got nerfed too.

Cody wrote: »

Dragon blood also seems lackluster. It is NOT restoring me for 33% of missing health, not even close, I barely get any heal at all from it.

Agreed - this used to heal for way more.

If you cast igneous shield right before, then dragon blood (especially if you stacked any +healing received or done), it's actually not too bad. Probably have to hit it a few times still. Without that combo, it's useless.

Cody wrote: »

The Dots can be easily negated (which is a shame because they actually are pretty decent)

This! If dots applied through damage shields, I think magicka DK would be reasonably viable again - we can stack some nice fire DOT dmg. No whip or GDB buff required.

Cody wrote: »

Maybe its due to inexperience I have with the class, but I have had only irritating experiences with a mana DK and I advise staying away from it until some things change. I myself have deleted my mana DK. I am sure people have found great use for it, but I cannot. Maybe its because of the way the class is designed, idk. Perhaps I am more comfortable with the way a sorc or a NB is played.

It's definitely hardmode. As a result, it can be quite rewarding to win with, but there will be fewer wins. Takes a long time to really "get the feel" for though.

Chadwikid

It's all about positioning against stam builds and selective and timed blocking and the use of your cc (talons and petrify to exert control on the fight.

Dub is total trash in pvp. Even with igneous and 10% blessed and quick recovery db does not heal as much as it should. I believe that something is not adding properly but I'm on console so don't have any numbers to test/prove that. Your better off with blessing of restoration and healing ward.

Getting cced and being unable I beak it is every magicka specs death excluding sorcs due to the ridiculous shields. Very rarely am I able to get through a sorcs shields unless they make a mistake or I can run them out of magicka and time my cc and meteor correctly. Otherwise it's just a never ending back and forth

Mag Dks are not built for burst. Unfortunately due to the uselessness of DoTs in pvp you are forced into a play style where most of your class tools are useless. It takes a bit of imagination knowledge and skill to find a way around that. Meteor fossilize combo is about as much burst as your going to get and needs to be timed properly in 5)3 course of the fight.

It has to fit your play style and you have to have the knowledge and skill to play it effectively. Even still soloing on a mag dk is stupid hard. 1v2 and 1v3 are doable depending on the skill level of your opponents and yours of course and even then it's stupid hard.

Angus

Chadwikid wrote: »

Dub is total trash in pvp. Even with igneous and 10% blessed and quick recovery db does not heal as much as it should. I believe that something is not adding properly but I'm on console so don't have any numbers to test/prove that. Your better off with blessing of restoration and healing ward.

Might be old news to you, but don't forget that PvP gets a -50% healing reduction, so that 33% is really more like 16% - that's pretty blah.

But, if you weren't going to have any other dragon abilities active, you get +12% more healing from your passives by having dragon blood active. That counts for more healing from allies, too. It's noticeable if you've got allies, not quite a gamechanger when solo.

I agree with you on healing ward, and blessing of restoration. However, I have a destro on my mag DK for flame clench these days (that ranged interrupt wins more fights than you'd think), so don't have access to blessing of restoration or healing ward.

Dragon blood mashing w/igneous shield can still get the job done when its all you got. But it does suck.

Vynist

For all you heavy armor magicka DK's:

How often do you block in a 1v1?
How often do you block in a 1vX outnumbered situation?

KozawahGaming

Vynist wrote: »

For all you heavy armor magicka DK's:

How often do you block in a 1v1?
How often do you block in a 1vX outnumbered situation?

Not often. But I'm horrid at timing my blocks.

mcurley

I've been leveling a mag DK in BWB for a bit now and I absolutely love it.... even though it's much much harder than my NB.

I'm only level 27 now and have just recently unlocked Reflective Scales (not slotted yet) and I'm just shy of unlocking my Whip.

I went with 5H and 2L for mitigation purposes. All points into magicka. I'm using 5pc Spectre's Eye and 3pc Turog's Pact.

Inferno Staff bar: Destructive Clench, Elemental Drain, Burning Embers, Engulfing Flames, Burning Talons -- Take Flight

Restoration Staff bar: Degeneration, Rapid Regeneration, Blessing of Restoration, Hardened Armor, Igneous Shield -- Magma Shell

In a 1v1 with a WBer I stay right on top of them to kill their min distance and just keep them CCd while I pick away at their health. If they ever do get the min distance I just block and repeat.

Take Flight is a must for bursting.

Elemental Drain is a decent way to keep magicka up... Stamina is a bit tougher to deal with... potions are great.

It's a tough life to live... but fun nonetheless.

Chadwikid

I'm very aware of the mechanics. Db is trash. In order to even make it partially worthwhile it takes up two slots because you need igneous. With the dk passive and igneous and my cp passive sit should negate the 50% reduction it does not. If you have nothing else than yes it's obviously better than nothing.

Fossilize is a better cc and can be used at range a shorter range but it does have a range and if your rolling magicka dk you should alway be within range if your not you ain't gonna catch them anyway

Chadwikid

I run heavy with dual wield so I can have some actual dmg

I only block if i see a wrecking blow Coming and I cant cc or get out of the way. Holding block against multiple opponents is pretty much death

Angus

Chadwikid wrote: »

In order to even make it partially worthwhile it takes up two slots because you need igneous.

Magicka DK without igneous? *boggles*

Chadwikid wrote: »

Fossilize is a better cc and can be used at range a shorter range but it does have a range

Meh, I can't live without that monster range on the flame clench - so useful for control.

Chadwikid wrote: »

and if your rolling magicka dk you should alway be within range if your not you ain't gonna catch them anyway

One word: invasion. You want distance to close, for the longer stun, for your burst, for the guy you just wore out with your clench.

Not a fan of fossilize, unless you've got a hard-to-land big hitter like wrecking blow. Plus it doesn't close the gap.

Chadwikid wrote: »

I run heavy with dual wield so I can have some actual dmg.

WTF? This is about magicka DKs.

SneaK

Chadwikid wrote: »

Magicka DKs need some serious help. Buff whip, DoTs are useless, fix DB, execute, fix scales, get rid of inferno and give us something else, stone fist needs help, inhale need help...he lost goes on and on. So all that said, class rebalancing is coming with thieves guild. We should be getting some info on what exactly they are planning in the coming weeks. Sit tight and hope, pray even, that zos did not have a case of *** cranium inversion while they were doing it.

Yes to all that, also I think DB should have a HoT to go with it and Inferno should just be a buff and not a toggle.

Angus

SneaK wrote: »

Yes to all that, also I think DB should have a HoT to go with it.

I like that idea. Sort of like a magicka-based Vigor. Makes it less annoying too, since it can be useful even when not in execute range.

Chadwikid

Dual wield provides significantly greater spell damage than either destro or s/b. Ever notice all the soars running around with dual wield or you play with your eyes closed? I don't run sword and board for that simple fact. Invasion is great I love it. The drastic decrease in dmg led to me complaining about not having any dmg. Unfortunately the wear down their resources play style which a dk excels at and is not really viable in the current pvp "meta." The reduced block cost passive from my heavy armor gives me enough reduction in block for the amount that I actually block.

I have found that the animation cancel weave that you can acheive with a destro staff does not come close to the amount of dmg you can acheive with a high spell dmg whip spam. Also I find that flame clench essentially gives free cc resist. You cast it and knock them away from you which puts them out of range of your attacks and then they break it and are back on you in under a second and you have no way to control them other than to block and talon.

Fossilize is the best cc in the game other than fear. It provides a hard cc and then an immobilize even if they break it. It gives you another second of in accosted time to talon or apply dmg and drains double the resources as they have to cc break then roll to completely get out of it.

LoreRiley

We are the highest skilled PvPers thats how. No need for FOTM builds just pure skill no spammablr attacks or anything

Actually_Goku

I made a Dunmer magicka DK a while back, levelled it to lvl 40 and ended up deleting it to make room for a new char...

I went the classic pyromancer build. Excelled in DOT, but the burst was lacking severely, and there is no execute for a magicka-based DK. Flame lash needs a serious buff, perhaps a DOT effect added, and needs a CC or stun that synergises with timing in PVP (which it already has in PVE).

Still held his own in PVE, very solid damage, rolled with 5 light, 2 heavy, a 6-1 ratio of magicka-health. But basically anything that wasn't flame damage was a waste of time to use.

I honestly feel as though that right now, DK's are only really viable as tanks. Templars are better at any Stam-DPS, Nightblades and Sorcs are both better at Magicka DPS. But my Nord DK tanks with the best of them. But yeah, for DPS, DK's are average, and their survivability is pretty meh unless you are using tanking skills almost exclusively.

KozawahGaming

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Flame lash needs a serious buff, perhaps a DOT effect added...

Absolutely not. DoT effects are nearly useless in PvP. Plus DragonKnight class skills in Ardent Flame are already mostly DoTs. We need solid damage skills like NightBlade: Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack, or Templar Jabs, or Sorc Frags. We Magicka DK's need a solid hitting ability. The Whip hits like a wet noodle.

Chadwikid

A buff to whip to put it on par with other classes dips skills OR a way to make dots effective in pvp (both would be even better) are needed

Actually_Goku

KozawahGaming wrote: »

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Flame lash needs a serious buff, perhaps a DOT effect added...

Absolutely not. DoT effects are nearly useless in PvP.

Yeah I should have specified better, I meant flame lash needs DOT in PVE. But a stun in PVP wouldn't hurt, or extra burst damage to enemies already burning, something. Because you're 100% right, it sucks as is.

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

On my Magicka DK in PVP, I find the Destruction staff abilities and Mage Guild abilities much more useful than the class abilities. The only class abilities I use are the buffs and shields. You can do pretty well by knocking back wrecking blow and Ambush spammers with Destructive Clench, hit them with Force Pulse a few times, Molten Armaments and heavy attack them to death.

Good Luck! It is still a very fun class tho!

Vanzen

In the massive zerg fest that is Cirro, I use destro/resto blasting everything from afar keeping movement and scale up 100% of the time, alternating with healing allies. As long as I stay out of melee range I cant be killed and AP is flowing. In IC sewer that's an other story : SB/SB.