Can we get some real PVP on PS4 NA?

Erdmanski

Just to start out, I will disclose I am DC and run a guild that always has a PVP group running around in Cyrodiil in some capacity. We have plenty of 3rd shifters, Australians, and nightowls, so we always have people online looking for action. We went to Thornblade a couple months or so ago when it was a EP buff server and were hoping to make it the new Chillrend after that campaign was ruined. It seemed alright for a while, but it is rapidly deteriorating into another Chillrend.

Here's my observations:

1. A high majority of the EP in Thornblade are only willing to fight when they have a large zerg and can simply run over DC due to a significant number advantage. This may be because most of the EP were there for PVE/grinding since it was a buff server, but it is pretty clear that without a zerg, they don't show up. There are some EP groups that don't fall into this category and want the same thing we do, but it seems the rest have left because they don't actually like a fair PVP fight.

2. Although DC always has some players on at any given time (as stated above), we unfortunately do not have the numbers to put up a fight against the EP zerg when they are on. This has led to many DC leaving the server as well, since either there is nothing to do since DC owns the entire map or there is nothing we can do because the red zerg is in full force.

3. AD has never had consistent representation on this server. Once in a while AD guests show up and mix it up a little, but for the most part the AD in Thornblade are more concerned about ganking, dueling, and AP farming than actually taking their home keeps and participating in the campaign. With AD's lack of participation in this campaign, it simply has been a two-way fight between EP and DC for the last month or so.

These observations are not meant to criticize or bash any alliance or specific players, I am just stating the facts as I see them. Everyone has the right to play PVP as they choose, but I am asking for the EP and AD that actually want a legit PVP experience to speak up here so we can get into the same campaign and play PVP how it was intended. Unfortunately we can't control everyone else that comes in and out of the campaign, but at least we can have a consistent PVP experience.

As it stands right now, there really isn't a fun and competitive PVP server, and there is a significant population that continues to play this game only for the PVP. I am afraid that if we don't remedy the current issues with PVP, this population will start to leave for other games.

wazzz56

Well stated points, from an AD stand point it comes down to a numbers game. For the most part we all want consistent Pvp action, but for yellow it is hit or miss on population at any given time in any given server.

CavalierPrime

Ganking, dueling, and AP farming is the only way to have fun in a lopsided campaign. Until ZoS releases matchmaking instances (4v4 capture the flag, 6v6 death match, etc), this is what youre going to have to endure.

Erdmanski

wazzz56 wrote: »

Well stated points, from an AD stand point it comes down to a numbers game. For the most part we all want consistent Pvp action, but for yellow it is hit or miss on population at any given time in any given server.

Yeah, I have definitely noticed that with AD, even back in the old Chillrend days. It seems the AD population moves around quite a bit more than EP and DC.

CavalierPrime wrote: »

Ganking, dueling, and AP farming is the only way to have fun in a lopsided campaign. Until ZoS releases matchmaking instances (4v4 capture the flag, 6v6 death match, etc), this is what youre going to have to endure.

I fully support a dueling arena, but capture the flag, death match? Come on. I think I speak for most when I say there is no support for turning PVP in this game into Call of Duty: Tamriel Unlimited.

Dik_Punch

Agreed with both. Seems like the only alliance with enough people to run more than 1 competitive server is the Reds. Cyrodiil has been lacking lately on ps4 due to the unbearable lag on Azura.

Skull of corruption has been decent lately. I think it's the healthiest 3way battle going at the moment at least that I've seen over the past couple weeks.

Something needs to happen though too many people are getting fed up with Azura, it's going to kill cyrodiil. It would be nice if we could cut the massive zergs of Azura in half and send them to another server. Then everyone could play in a lag free competitive environment, just honour system limit the population to 2 bars. Start playing for the love of PVP and not the grind of owning top 10... Ha like that would ever happen.

Moglijuana

Erdmanski wrote: »

Just to start out, I will disclose I am DC and run a guild that always has a PVP group running around in Cyrodiil in some capacity. We have plenty of 3rd shifters, Australians, and nightowls, so we always have people online looking for action. We went to Thornblade a couple months or so ago when it was a EP buff server and were hoping to make it the new Chillrend after that campaign was ruined. It seemed alright for a while, but it is rapidly deteriorating into another Chillrend.

Here's my observations:

1. A high majority of the EP in Thornblade are only willing to fight when they have a large zerg and can simply run over DC due to a significant number advantage. This may be because most of the EP were there for PVE/grinding since it was a buff server, but it is pretty clear that without a zerg, they don't show up. There are some EP groups that don't fall into this category and want the same thing we do, but it seems the rest have left because they don't actually like a fair PVP fight.

2. Although DC always has some players on at any given time (as stated above), we unfortunately do not have the numbers to put up a fight against the EP zerg when they are on. This has led to many DC leaving the server as well, since either there is nothing to do since DC owns the entire map or there is nothing we can do because the red zerg is in full force.

3. AD has never had consistent representation on this server. Once in a while AD guests show up and mix it up a little, but for the most part the AD in Thornblade are more concerned about ganking, dueling, and AP farming than actually taking their home keeps and participating in the campaign. With AD's lack of participation in this campaign, it simply has been a two-way fight between EP and DC for the last month or so.

These observations are not meant to criticize or bash any alliance or specific players, I am just stating the facts as I see them. Everyone has the right to play PVP as they choose, but I am asking for the EP and AD that actually want a legit PVP experience to speak up here so we can get into the same campaign and play PVP how it was intended. Unfortunately we can't control everyone else that comes in and out of the campaign, but at least we can have a consistent PVP experience.

As it stands right now, there really isn't a fun and competitive PVP server, and there is a significant population that continues to play this game only for the PVP. I am afraid that if we don't remedy the current issues with PVP, this population will start to leave for other games.

I'm about to set Thorn as my home after Azura ends, I'm in AD. And I will definitely agree with you about the reds who are wimps without their zerg. But even their zerg gets wiped sometimes lol. My guild does it every few days. Let's go cause some mayhem!

Erdmanski

Dik_Punch wrote: »

Agreed with both. Seems like the only alliance with enough people to run more than 1 competitive server is the Reds. Cyrodiil has been lacking lately on ps4 due to the unbearable lag on Azura.

Skull of corruption has been decent lately. I think it's the healthiest 3way battle going at the moment at least that I've seen over the past couple weeks.

Something needs to happen though too many people are getting fed up with Azura, it's going to kill cyrodiil. It would be nice if we could cut the massive zergs of Azura in half and send them to another server. Then everyone could play in a lag free competitive environment, just honour system limit the population to 2 bars. Start playing for the love of PVP and not the grind of owning top 10... Ha like that would ever happen.

I am going to lobby for ZOS to change the names of the servers to Red Buff Server, Blue Buff Server, Yellow Buff Server, Zerg Server, Dueling Server, PVP Server.

This way, the duelers will know where to go, the gankers can pick which buff server they want to gank on, the zergers can all zerg together and the minority that wants legit PVP can do so without the rest of it going on.

BigDSoulReaper

my guild actually changed their home campaign to thornblade. since then a lot of EP has rerolled to the other alliance in order to help the pvp situation. the problem is that to many guilds rerolled and now EP is barely ever there. i have Officers scouting the campaign at all hrs of the day to see how the population is going, but EP is ridiculously outnumbered. Blues, on the other hand, as you stated above, have people there around the clock. if EP doesnt get more people here soon, this campaign will just die off like the rest. on that note, AD also has had a very weak showing in numbers so they dont really make any kind of effort on the campaign. 2 days ago, AD had no keeps yet they went up and took the mine at Chalman, why? i have no idea, but they do whatever it is they do.

Malkery

Youre right in that Thornblade was fun for abit but then word got out and the zergs started to show up, alot of us left azuras bc its unplayable at primetimes and bc of the lag it comes down to numbers every fight.Alot of us have been in skull lately and its been great , even numbers for the most part and alot of really good players from each faction including some of what I consider to be EP's best players.Although it is true that a certain guild PVdoors the map blue every night, its still the best action that you ll find relatively lag free at primetime.

Erdmanski

Malkery wrote: »

Youre right in that Thornblade was fun for abit but then word got out and the zergs started to show up, alot of us left azuras bc its unplayable at primetimes and bc of the lag it comes down to numbers every fight.Alot of us have been in skull lately and its been great , even numbers for the most part and alot of really good players from each faction including some of what I consider to be EP's best players.Although it is true that a certain guild PVdoors the map blue every night, its still the best action that you ll find relatively lag free at primetime.

We may have to check out Skull then. I use to go there to farm dolmens when it was a DC buff server, but it was always dead.

Greyhame

I set Thornblade as my home this past week after a month or so in Haderus. I am a part of BigD's guild which is a mix of PVP/PVE Casuals/Hardcores. I'm casual PVP as I'm only on about 10 hours a week. But when I am on I'm exclusively in Cyrodiil.

The problem with Thornblade cuts both ways. When we have guild events for PVP, 3 times a week, We end up with a group of 10-15 people, the back and forth is fun, we fight over the same ground a lot but I don't mind that. But then as the OP said the EP population shoots up and we are riding the zerg wave for the rest of the time that I'm on. That is not as fun.

Conversely outside of our designated guild PVP times I've tried to solo or find a PUG for a couple hours of something worth doing and find myself rolled over and over by superior DC numbers. I won't use the word zerg here because its not a zerg its a 12-16 group of blues, some of which are pretty skilled and organized, but it may as well be a zerg when I can only find a few EP here and there to group with, very few of which are organized.

Therefore I've found that trying to play as an EP looking for PVP during non-peak hours on Thornblade is very, very frustrating. After a few swings at it I'm likely to go back into Haderus unless I'm running with a guild group. But then the guild group forms up only about an hour or so before the prime zerg hours so... It's tough all over I guess.

Getting AD involved would help. Getting an EP presence that is on more off hours would help. Consistency all around would help.

But till it gets worked out I have a better time running out the south gate in Haderus and fighting over Farragut for a few hours with 5-7 Reds I know and 8-12 random AD defenders. At least then I'm getting sustained back and forth fights and good defensive AP ticks for gate defenses. Downside of that though is that you don't get anywhere or hold much ground, but its fun fighting.

So I would say that your #1 point is flawed. You are assuming we don't want to fight without a zerg but I know plenty that would love to fight even odds even if we are not taking ground. The issue is that DC outnumbers EP 3-4 to 1 during off hours. If we were all killers and you were all PVE'ers that might be fun but you got us on numbers and you got tightly organized groups on top of that. Even kiting around and trying to gank the stragglers doesn't work out for long. You got a DC emperor that finished the week last week with over 1,000,000 AP on the leaderboard with a guild group, an assumption I'll admit, that seems to be on at all hours and is ready to roll any EP that stick their head out the gate or dare to flag anything. So I doubt that I'm the only one that queues into another campaign after a few rounds of frustratingly getting nowhere.

I don't think that is anyone fault though I think it is just what it is at this point. You have a group of DC's that are on at all hours. You have few EP pvp'ing off hours, the ones that do are severely outnumbered or too disorganized to get a coherent group together. AD is nowhere to be found. And then you have at least 3 active EP guilds that get on during prime time and wipe the map with the suddenly outnumbered DC. I've seen some serious DC numbers during prime time as well though so it is not only EP zerging.

Fact is ZOS needs to do something substantial or PVP will die out on this game. Because it is frustrating, and the only think that keeps me from finding something better is the lack of anything like ESO on PS4. It is a wonderfully crafted game on the whole and I don't expect perfection but there needs to be something done. Hell a Alliance voice channel for each campaign would help. Half the time I wonder around too long looking for other reds to group with. Or you will find a few and take a keep, then go get a drink and lose them again. The communication options in this game are terrible.

Cryhavoc

A couple points:

There are no "Buff" campaigns, truly they are "PVE" campaigns. Buffs only work in one campaign, and those campaigns are actually used for PVE farming (Cracked wood cave and Cyrodiil dailies anyone?). This is ZOS' fault, as it is their game mechanics.

AP is best farmed in a full raid group, that is just the way the average AP per hour falls. Again, ZOS's fault.

There is a population imbalance. Ebonheart outnumbers everyone. I cannot prove this, but if you watch the population meters like I do, you see it. Zergy factions (no colors mentioned) are a function of AP farming and population imbalances.

Resource campaigns are best for smaller groups if you actually care about the campaign, though 30 day campaigns are best for rewards. 30 day campaigns have the greatest potential for Zerg_Lag (Azura anyone?). Scroll and Keep campaigns are best for securing a PVE campaign by a Zergy faction.

Thus, 30 day campaigns will be Zergy lagfests AND smaller population factions will roam between campaigns.

The only fix is a change in game mechanics. @ZOS_GinaBruno could you have someone investigate this, or help out here?

mr1sho

Greyhame wrote: »

I set Thornblade as my home this past week after a month or so in Haderus. I am a part of BigD's guild which is a mix of PVP/PVE Casuals/Hardcores. I'm casual PVP as I'm only on about 10 hours a week. But when I am on I'm exclusively in Cyrodiil.

The problem with Thornblade cuts both ways. When we have guild events for PVP, 3 times a week, We end up with a group of 10-15 people, the back and forth is fun, we fight over the same ground a lot but I don't mind that. But then as the OP said the EP population shoots up and we are riding the zerg wave for the rest of the time that I'm on. That is not as fun.

Conversely outside of our designated guild PVP times I've tried to solo or find a PUG for a couple hours of something worth doing and find myself rolled over and over by superior DC numbers. I won't use the word zerg here because its not a zerg its a 12-16 group of blues, some of which are pretty skilled and organized, but it may as well be a zerg when I can only find a few EP here and there to group with, very few of which are organized.

Therefore I've found that trying to play as an EP looking for PVP during non-peak hours on Thornblade is very, very frustrating. After a few swings at it I'm likely to go back into Haderus unless I'm running with a guild group. But then the guild group forms up only about an hour or so before the prime zerg hours so... It's tough all over I guess.

Getting AD involved would help. Getting an EP presence that is on more off hours would help. Consistency all around would help.

But till it gets worked out I have a better time running out the south gate in Haderus and fighting over Farragut for a few hours with 5-7 Reds I know and 8-12 random AD defenders. At least then I'm getting sustained back and forth fights and good defensive AP ticks for gate defenses. Downside of that though is that you don't get anywhere or hold much ground, but its fun fighting.

So I would say that your #1 point is flawed. You are assuming we don't want to fight without a zerg but I know plenty that would love to fight even odds even if we are not taking ground. The issue is that DC outnumbers EP 3-4 to 1 during off hours. If we were all killers and you were all PVE'ers that might be fun but you got us on numbers and you got tightly organized groups on top of that. Even kiting around and trying to gank the stragglers doesn't work out for long. You got a DC emperor that finished the week last week with over 1,000,000 AP on the leaderboard with a guild group, an assumption I'll admit, that seems to be on at all hours and is ready to roll any EP that stick their head out the gate or dare to flag anything. So I doubt that I'm the only one that queues into another campaign after a few rounds of frustratingly getting nowhere.

I don't think that is anyone fault though I think it is just what it is at this point. You have a group of DC's that are on at all hours. You have few EP pvp'ing off hours, the ones that do are severely outnumbered or too disorganized to get a coherent group together. AD is nowhere to be found. And then you have at least 3 active EP guilds that get on during prime time and wipe the map with the suddenly outnumbered DC. I've seen some serious DC numbers during prime time as well though so it is not only EP zerging.

Fact is ZOS needs to do something substantial or PVP will die out on this game. Because it is frustrating, and the only think that keeps me from finding something better is the lack of anything like ESO on PS4. It is a wonderfully crafted game on the whole and I don't expect perfection but there needs to be something done. Hell a Alliance voice channel for each campaign would help. Half the time I wonder around too long looking for other reds to group with. Or you will find a few and take a keep, then go get a drink and lose them again. The communication options in this game are terrible.

Lava_Croft

ZOS' lack of interest in PvP is starting to be noticed by our brothers and sisters of the gaming consoles.

davey1107

The OP makes entirely valid points. The issue, we might say, seems to be too many campaigns. With the current number, the factions are dividing up into single-faction dominated campaigns. If max populations were reduced and some camps eliminated, that should force more balanced campaigns.

Another issue...gamers can be lazy. Let's just admit it. Each faction has a campaign they believe is their to rule, and be a place to go for easy-peasy Sky shard hunting and keep captures.

There can be some advantages to the current dilemma, however. A certain yellow guild has moved into a certain faction's buff server recently, and it's kinda funny to watch (and play). The dominate faction players are completely spoiled and unseasoned - they have no idea how to react to actual strategy or resistance now that it's moved into their territory.

Friday night I did a PVP tutorial with three toons UNDER LEVEL 20. I taught them ganking. How many enemies came out the same door and down the same road before they figured it out? Over 20. Gee, thanks guys, it would have taken me hours to show the noobs 20 ganks in azura's. Of course, now I have to explain to the level 20s that it shouldn't be that easy to take down a whole string of vet 16's.

But yes, this campaign is made kinda boring by the single color dominance. They Zerg the map every night, and behave like they've accomplished something. But so long as we're stuck with this somewhat boring PVP mechanic, I'm kinda interested to see what happens as the current leading team starts to lose more and more battles.

mr1sho

Thornblade has been so dead since EP gave up after day 1 of the campaign I started questing on Different toons all week lol

Erdmanski

Cryhavoc wrote: »

The only fix is a change in game mechanics. @ZOS_GinaBruno could you have someone investigate this, or help out here?

Lava_Croft wrote: »

ZOS' lack of interest in PvP is starting to be noticed by our brothers and sisters of the gaming consoles.

While I agree that ZOS should pay a little more attention to PVP (lag, mount issues, multi-faction players cheating, etc) I don't think the blame for what I'm saying should be placed on ZOS. Even with lag and the inability to mount most of the time, PVP can still be enjoyable. I think davey1107 hit it head on...

davey1107 wrote: »

Another issue...gamers can be lazy. Let's just admit it. Each faction has a campaign they believe is their to rule, and be a place to go for easy-peasy Sky shard hunting and keep captures.

It seems that the majority of people in this game are unwilling to go to a campaign where they are outnumbered and have to grind it out to gain any ground. Most people just want to camp in their buff server and grind XP or farm AP. This has created a stagnant PVP environment and this is not ZOS's fault.

Cryhavoc

To clarify, when I blame Zos for game mechanics it is because they could use game mechanics to solve many of the campaign issues:

Remove campaigns that have a low population
Change the way campaigns are won
Change rewards and/or leaderboard calculations to benefit campaign loyalty
Modify AP gain to benefit smaller groups

Etc
Etc

deathscythe

Best suggestion is to keep on the move from campaign to campaign.
I've been just seeing zergz follow the group of good players from campaign to campaign.

Same suggestion I keep opting for is that whoever runs the zergs who are night capping everything to everyone's gates should just stop. Push out to their front line home keeps and just ease off. No reason to push up to their gates. That for one discourages a majority of the players who jump maps.

AOECAPS

BigDSoulReaper wrote: »

my guild actually changed their home campaign to thornblade. since then a lot of EP has rerolled to the other alliance in order to help the pvp situation. the problem is that to many guilds rerolled and now EP is barely ever there. i have Officers scouting the campaign at all hrs of the day to see how the population is going, but EP is ridiculously outnumbered. Blues, on the other hand, as you stated above, have people there around the clock. if EP doesnt get more people here soon, this campaign will just die off like the rest. on that note, AD also has had a very weak showing in numbers so they dont really make any kind of effort on the campaign. 2 days ago, AD had no keeps yet they went up and took the mine at Chalman, why? i have no idea, but they do whatever it is they do.

Lol EP pop locked Thornblade like 2 weeks ago while DC had 1 bar and AD 0

FatKidHatchets

Sadly if its not Azura there isn't enough competition. The last time my guild switched to a red buff server was back when chillrend was 14 days. 6 days were left red was winning by 25k lead and we took it over and won. Kinda sad really. I think ill stay out of thornblade for your own good

TheM0rganism

FatKidHatchets wrote: »

Sadly if its not Azura there isn't enough competition. The last time my guild switched to a red buff server was back when chillrend was 14 days. 6 days were left red was winning by 25k lead and we took it over and won. Kinda sad really. I think ill stay out of thornblade for your own good

Hey, Fatty...

Remember that time you couldn't kill a single DK with your little raid party, tried to run, and still got smashed when YOU WERE THE FRIGGIN EMPEROR?!?!??!

lmao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khJ1teW0gQw