Proposal to Make Magicka Sorcerers More Like Elementalists

Autolycus

I've thought for some time now that Sorcerers should be able to function in more of an elementalist capacity. I think this can be accomplished with minor changes to skills and passives, but would not require reworking any skills or passives completely. Abilities that are tied to a specific element, such as Lightning Splash, would inherit the damage type of the staff being used by the Sorcerer. If not using a staff, but instead using, say two swords, then it would be magic damage. The magicka forms of skills like Lightning Form would also inherit this damage type, but stamina-based skills would still scale off of stamina and weapon damage.

SmalltalkJava

I like your idea. Additional play options are good for the game

Eejit1331

We have a whole tree for lightning spells and our destro stick for lighting heavy attack is, imo, much weaker than the standard heavy attack of the fire and frost staff. I'd be happy of this change was made.

catalyst10e

Well, to play devil's advocate... You'd be giving a huge diverse system specifically to Sorcs alone, which some could view as being unfair. It could also make things kinda constricting. For instance, I have Mage's Wrath and destructive reach on my main bar, if using a fire staff for the awesome knock down ability with destructive reach, I'd be forced into also having a fire based Mage's wrath. (and consequently, any other spell I slot in its place would also be fire based). I'd also feel limited to being forced into a play style, I'd HAVE to dual wield to turn my spells Magic based to get my Thaumaturge bonuses. So you'd see a bunch of the same type or sorc running around (worse than what it is now). It also kinda forces a Stam sorc to slot in a destruction staff if they want any elemental damage. To top all this off, it would require a ton of work to re-animate the abilities to match their elemental counterpart, can't have liquid lightning looking like electricity when it's fire based.

It sounds like it'd be a lot of work, put up limitations, and also everyone would just slot fire, angering all the vampire players even more.

dodgehopper_ESO

catalyst10e wrote: »

Well, to play devil's advocate... You'd be giving a huge diverse system specifically to Sorcs alone, which some could view as being unfair. It could also make things kinda constricting. For instance, I have Mage's Wrath and destructive reach on my main bar, if using a fire staff for the awesome knock down ability with destructive reach, I'd be forced into also having a fire based Mage's wrath. (and consequently, any other spell I slot in its place would also be fire based). I'd also feel limited to being forced into a play style, I'd HAVE to dual wield to turn my spells Magic based to get my Thaumaturge bonuses. So you'd see a bunch of the same type or sorc running around (worse than what it is now). It also kinda forces a Stam sorc to slot in a destruction staff if they want any elemental damage. To top all this off, it would require a ton of work to re-animate the abilities to match their elemental counterpart, can't have liquid lightning looking like electricity when it's fire based.

It sounds like it'd be a lot of work, put up limitations, and also everyone would just slot fire, angering all the vampire players even more.

I'd also like to mention that a lot of people in the past have requested something similar to morph the DK class to allow Ice effects (Ice Breath, Ice inhalation, Ice whip, etc). I understand the desire of the OP to give us more customization for our characters, but I would personally rather that in the form of Spellcrafting. In fact if I had it my way there wouldn't be classes at all, just skill lines.

Autolycus

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I'd also like to mention that a lot of people in the past have requested something similar to morph the DK class to allow Ice effects (Ice Breath, Ice inhalation, Ice whip, etc). I understand the desire of the OP to give us more customization for our characters, but I would personally rather that in the form of Spellcrafting. In fact if I had it my way there wouldn't be classes at all, just skill lines.

Imho I agree with you. It would be great to see that type of freedom in ESO, and I also have high hopes for spellcrafting. The truth is, I have my doubts that it will ever actually happen. I have a very difficult time even imagining the implementation of spellcrafting, and I'm sure there will be a horde of bugs/issues if and when that day comes.

It would be very cool, both for sorcs and DKs.

catalyst10e

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Well, to play devil's advocate... You'd be giving a huge diverse system specifically to Sorcs alone, which some could view as being unfair. It could also make things kinda constricting. For instance, I have Mage's Wrath and destructive reach on my main bar, if using a fire staff for the awesome knock down ability with destructive reach, I'd be forced into also having a fire based Mage's wrath. (and consequently, any other spell I slot in its place would also be fire based). I'd also feel limited to being forced into a play style, I'd HAVE to dual wield to turn my spells Magic based to get my Thaumaturge bonuses. So you'd see a bunch of the same type or sorc running around (worse than what it is now). It also kinda forces a Stam sorc to slot in a destruction staff if they want any elemental damage. To top all this off, it would require a ton of work to re-animate the abilities to match their elemental counterpart, can't have liquid lightning looking like electricity when it's fire based.

It sounds like it'd be a lot of work, put up limitations, and also everyone would just slot fire, angering all the vampire players even more.

I'd also like to mention that a lot of people in the past have requested something similar to morph the DK class to allow Ice effects (Ice Breath, Ice inhalation, Ice whip, etc). I understand the desire of the OP to give us more customization for our characters, but I would personally rather that in the form of Spellcrafting. In fact if I had it my way there wouldn't be classes at all, just skill lines.

I had actually typed out something similar but deleted it, in the form of "I believe Classes should just provide some passives, and not have skills locked behind them" and Yeah I agree, I know I was a little disappointed being forced into a skill line of Shock magic when I prefer fire magic, but it'd be better if more skill lines are added rather than change the existing ones. at least imho.

Shunravi

If they wanted the feel of sorcerers to be elementalists and not conjurers/ summoners, they would have made 'dark magic' 'frost magic' instead. As it is, practically everything in dark magic could pass as frost with a simple color swap... In other games Ive seen things like dark exchange, daedric mines, and negate magic have frost eqivalents. And shard is such an obvious snowball spell...

Its not as if i dont appreciate your intent though. Its just not where i think they want to go with the class.

Autolycus

Shunravi wrote: »

If they wanted the feel of sorcerers to be elementalists and not conjurers/ summoners, they would have made 'dark magic' 'frost magic' instead. As it is, practically everything in dark magic could pass as frost with a siple color swap... In other games Ive seen things like dark exchange, daedric mines, and negate magic have frost eqivalents. And shard is such an obvious snowball spell...

Its not as if i dont appreciate your intent though. Its just not where i think they want to go with the class.

You know, you're probably right. They most likely don't intend this for the class. It sure would help the whole "play how you want" thing though.

Lexxypwns

Terrible plan, this makes dual wield thaumaturge sorcs even stronger, which isn't remotely good for pvp balance or build diversity

Autolycus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Terrible plan, this makes dual wield thaumaturge sorcs even stronger, which isn't remotely good for pvp balance or build diversity

How is it bad for build diversity?

Wouldn't the solution for balance be to offer similar changes/buffs to other classes?

I imagine that this type of change would encourage more sorcs to play elemental builds, which in turn would encourage less thaumaturge and more elemental CP stacking.

In pvp specifically, I don't have that much trouble with dual wield sorcs. If I have trouble, it's against a player who is better than me, not because they are inherently overpowered or have more damage potential.

catalyst10e

Autolycus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Terrible plan, this makes dual wield thaumaturge sorcs even stronger, which isn't remotely good for pvp balance or build diversity

How is it bad for build diversity?

Wouldn't the solution for balance be to offer similar changes/buffs to other classes?

I imagine that this type of change would encourage more sorcs to play elemental builds, which in turn would encourage less thaumaturge and more elemental CP stacking.

by bad for build diversity, he/she means there would be no reason to NOT pick dual wield sorc. 100 points in thaumaturge, dual wielding giving you much more spell damage than a staff ever could, and effectively turning all your spells magic damage instead of elemental damage means it would be the pinnacle OP sorc, and the only people who dont use that build would be outclassed by all the others.

Autolycus

catalyst10e wrote: »

by bad for build diversity, he/she means there would be no reason to NOT pick dual wield sorc. 100 points in thaumaturge, dual wielding giving you much more spell damage than a staff ever could, and effectively turning all your spells magic damage instead of elemental damage means it would be the pinnacle OP sorc, and the only people who dont use that build would be outclassed by all the others.

That's a fair point. I can't argue with the logic. I would, however, suggest that proper implementation could do away with this issue.

Jsmalls

Autolycus wrote: »

I've thought for some time now that Sorcerers should be able to function in more of an elementalist capacity. I think this can be accomplished with minor changes to skills and passives, but would not require reworking any skills or passives completely. Abilities that are tied to a specific element, such as Lightning Splash, would inherit the damage type of the staff being used by the Sorcerer. If not using a staff, but instead using, say two swords, then it would be magic damage. The magicka forms of skills like Lightning Form would also inherit this damage type, but stamina-based skills would still scale off of stamina and weapon damage.

My vamprism begs for this not to happen. Fire Overload attacks no thanks.