Can we lose or increase the maximum distance on Shadow Image's teleport?

KenaPKK

In open world Cyrodiil, the distance that the teleport is currently limited to feels rather short. In many fights, I find myself with enemies all around me and my shade, yet I move out of range of the shade in the natural movements of the battle. Keeping within range of the shade is rather restricting. What do people think about this?

edit: another alternative would be to let Nightblades cast shade without a target, but I am not a fan of this since it eliminates counterplay.

lolo_01b16_ESO

It allready has a greater range than any gapcloser (apart from take flight), how much more do you want?

GreenSoup2HoT

I think the range is bugged when using it from height. Since there is a Y and X axis i believe the two are added to make up a maximum distance. Instead of just using the X axis for distance.

There are many occasion's where i'm using this ability from a keep wall and i cannot teleport back because of this distance restriction but it feel's like i'm still very close to the shade itself.

Not really sure. I would love a range increase.

Having no target to cast on is op. In the hand's of someone smart, you would never catch them ever. You would never find the shadow image since it would always be casted behind LOS.

Tankqull

a range increase would be too strong - if it is not combined with a los check (you have be able to see your entire shadow to port to it).

danno8

I think it is meant to aid in mobility. Not be a "get out of any situation scot free".

Given the amount speed, mobility, stealth and teleports available to the NB class, I think any further buffs need to wait until at least after the next DLC drops. They are very strong right now and need no further buffs.

OdinForge

The ability is great at what it does, but I agree that the distance should be increased.

It's too clunky to drop, forget about for 15 seconds and easily slip out of range.

KenaPKK

danno8 wrote: »

I think it is meant to aid in mobility. Not be a "get out of any situation scot free".

Given the amount speed, mobility, stealth and teleports available to the NB class, I think any further buffs need to wait until at least after the next DLC drops. They are very strong right now and need no further buffs.

We have a gap closer, cloak, and shade. That is the limit of our "mobility." Our gap closer puts us on the enemy's face, cloak is in fact not mobility at all and is easily countered, and shade is buggy and often unreliable. Also the range is short for open world Cyro combat. You're exaggerating.

Jumper45

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

KenaPKK

Jumper45 wrote: »

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

^

And honestly, Nightblades are lacking the real mobility and elusiveness that rogue types get in other games. There is no true back line assassination then dipping out with ESO Nightblades.

Joy_Division

KenaPKK wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

^

And honestly, Nightblades are lacking the real mobility and elusiveness that rogue types get in other games. There is no true back line assassination then dipping out with ESO Nightblades.

But they also have a high damage potential without the typical restrictions of rogue types in other games (e.g. sneak attack). If you do not think NBs have the mobility and hitting power to assassinate isolated targets, that is a L2P issue as this is something other NB players do every day in Cyrodiil and the IC.

danno8

KenaPKK wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I think it is meant to aid in mobility. Not be a "get out of any situation scot free".

Given the amount speed, mobility, stealth and teleports available to the NB class, I think any further buffs need to wait until at least after the next DLC drops. They are very strong right now and need no further buffs.

We have a gap closer, cloak, and shade. That is the limit of our "mobility." Our gap closer puts us on the enemy's face, cloak is in fact not mobility at all and is easily countered, and shade is buggy and often unreliable. Also the range is short for open world Cyro combat. You're exaggerating.

You have the only gap closer in the game that can do elevations. Not too mention has no minimum range and is technically a teleport. It "puts you in the enemies face"? I don't understand. Functionally, Teleport Strike is the best gap closer in the game.

You have several sources of major expedition in your class skills. Templar for example, has none.

If you find shade to be buggy and unreliable then why are you pushing for a range increase/elimination? You should be asking for a bug fix.

I think you need more time playing DK or Templar if you find NB mobility to underwhelming.

KenaPKK

This thread isn't comparing classes. There is no argument here that Templar and DK do not need attention. Stop attempting to derail the conversation.

This is also not a discussion about gap closers. This is a discussion about gap creators.

danno8

Jumper45 wrote: »

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

ESO's biggest problem with stealth is that it is spammable. GW2 and most other mmo's have skill cooldowns which make it much easier to balance those skills. Strong skill? Bigger CD. Easy.

ESO was suppose to have strong skill=more Magicka, but that has been thrown out the window, especially when soft caps got removed.

I think it's stupid that there are detect pots that nullify a NB's stealth ability completely, but that is the necessary evil of stealth that is spammable. There are no levels of stealth, you are either invisible or you are not. Consequently the counters are going to shut it down 100% also.

Incidentally are you referring to Portal from GW2 or the Thief Sword mainhand #2 ability Shadow Return?

revonine

I've had quite few deaths due to a failed teleport probably due to the reasons that GreenSoup has described. I'm all for the range increase but leave the target requirement, would be a bit too OP and Nightblades get enough unwarranted QQ already.

Xvorg

danno8 wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

ESO's biggest problem with stealth is that it is spammable. GW2 and most other mmo's have skill cooldowns which make it much easier to balance those skills. Strong skill? Bigger CD. Easy.

Most MMORPG have larger bars than ESO too and that's why cooldowns work without any problem there. Having sapmmable skills is needed here as well as animation cancel. Cooldowns will only slow the game.

The problem right now, even with cloak, is not that it is spammable, it is the infinite resources you can get with certain builds

danno8

Xvorg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

ESO's biggest problem with stealth is that it is spammable. GW2 and most other mmo's have skill cooldowns which make it much easier to balance those skills. Strong skill? Bigger CD. Easy.

Most MMORPG have larger bars than ESO too and that's why cooldowns work without any problem there. Having sapmmable skills is needed here as well as animation cancel. Cooldowns will only slow the game.

The problem right now, even with cloak, is not that it is spammable, it is the infinite resources you can get with certain builds

The spammability and infinite resources go hand and hand. They are inextricably linked.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

It allready has a greater range than any gapcloser (apart from take flight), how much more do you want?

This is not the Gap Closerd it's the Teleportation morph from the Shadow line

danno8 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I think it is meant to aid in mobility. Not be a "get out of any situation scot free".

Given the amount speed, mobility, stealth and teleports available to the NB class, I think any further buffs need to wait until at least after the next DLC drops. They are very strong right now and need no further buffs.

We have a gap closer, cloak, and shade. That is the limit of our "mobility." Our gap closer puts us on the enemy's face, cloak is in fact not mobility at all and is easily countered, and shade is buggy and often unreliable. Also the range is short for open world Cyro combat. You're exaggerating.

You have the only gap closer in the game that can do elevations. Not too mention has no minimum range and is technically a teleport. It "puts you in the enemies face"? I don't understand. Functionally, Teleport Strike is the best gap closer in the game.

You have several sources of major expedition in your class skills. Templar for example, has none.

If you find shade to be buggy and unreliable then why are you pushing for a range increase/elimination? You should be asking for a bug fix.

I think you need more time playing DK or Templar if you find NB mobility to underwhelming.

But it's point is to Teleport you away if it can't serve that role what's the point?

Callidus_Est

Tankqull wrote: »

a range increase would be too strong - if it is not combined with a los check (you have be able to see your entire shadow to port to it).

That would destroy the entire purpose of the ability.

lolo_01b16_ESO

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

It allready has a greater range than any gapcloser (apart from take flight), how much more do you want?

This is not the Gap Closerd it's the Teleportation morph from the Shadow line

Shadow image is one of my favourite skills, so I know very well how it works.
What I ment is the following: At the moment the gap created by shadow image can only be countered by take flight (and even that only when the nb doesn't use los to his advantage), since all other gap closers have a shorter range. If you wound increase the range even further, so that no skill could be used to counter it, it will probably become too strong.

KenaPKK

All I'll add to the conversation is that you can currently cast shade, take like 3 steps forward, Ambush onto an enemy, and be incapable of poofing back to the shade because you've passed its range... >.> Boooooo

danno8

KenaPKK wrote: »

All I'll add to the conversation is that you can currently cast shade, take like 3 steps forward, Ambush onto an enemy, and be incapable of poofing back to the shade because you've passed its range... >.> Boooooo

Considering it has a 28m return range and Ambush max range is 22m, you should be able to do exactly what you said no problem.

If you find those "few steps" put you on the fringe of the 28m range, I would suggest this: take 3 steps forward first, THEN cast Shade.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

It allready has a greater range than any gapcloser (apart from take flight), how much more do you want?

This is not the Gap Closerd it's the Teleportation morph from the Shadow line

Shadow image is one of my favourite skills, so I know very well how it works.
What I ment is the following: At the moment the gap created by shadow image can only be countered by take flight (and even that only when the nb doesn't use los to his advantage), since all other gap closers have a shorter range. If you wound increase the range even further, so that no skill could be used to counter it, it will probably become too strong.

Completely agree I mainly use it to "jump" back up walls *drop shade up a keep wall Ambush down fight kill jump but watch the Det. Pots and AoE firing off and move to a different side*

Jumper45

danno8 wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

ESO's biggest problem with stealth is that it is spammable. GW2 and most other mmo's have skill cooldowns which make it much easier to balance those skills. Strong skill? Bigger CD. Easy.

ESO was suppose to have strong skill=more Magicka, but that has been thrown out the window, especially when soft caps got removed.

I think it's stupid that there are detect pots that nullify a NB's stealth ability completely, but that is the necessary evil of stealth that is spammable. There are no levels of stealth, you are either invisible or you are not. Consequently the counters are going to shut it down 100% also.

Incidentally are you referring to Portal from GW2 or the Thief Sword mainhand #2 ability Shadow Return?

Shadow Step ( has a return action so you drop it then do whatever and then u can use it to teleport back to where you used it. and Shadow Trap was the other ability when stepping on it would allow you to teleport to who ever stepped on it. Both of these abilities had a range of 40,000 if i recall? Which is almost an infinite range. You could easly use something like that from castle to castle in cyro.

Honestly they could stealth when ever they felt like it. Their attack with their weapon made them stealth. They had stealth abilities. They had AOE stealth abiities that u can drop on an area all usable in combat. Granted this isnt GW2 but other such games had Similar effects. Not to derail. My only point is that other games have done it very effectively with long range teleports etc and there was no huge backlash over it so why cant ESO seem to balance things like this.

And to make a 2nd point these are assassin type builds so to say NB shouldn't have the high burst dps to kill someone and still not get say an endless range teleport back to a location they used the ability id simply say you have noooooo idea how lucky people are the current NB is more of a "swashbuckler" if anything.

Xvorg

danno8 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

ESO's biggest problem with stealth is that it is spammable. GW2 and most other mmo's have skill cooldowns which make it much easier to balance those skills. Strong skill? Bigger CD. Easy.

Most MMORPG have larger bars than ESO too and that's why cooldowns work without any problem there. Having sapmmable skills is needed here as well as animation cancel. Cooldowns will only slow the game.

The problem right now, even with cloak, is not that it is spammable, it is the infinite resources you can get with certain builds

The spammability and infinite resources go hand and hand. They are inextricably linked.

Not necessarily. Limit the resources regen and spammability is out of the equation. It even favors a more tank oriented "now it's my turn" playingstyle

danno8

Jumper45 wrote: »

Shadow Step ( has a return action so you drop it then do whatever and then u can use it to teleport back to where you used it. and Shadow Trap was the other ability when stepping on it would allow you to teleport to who ever stepped on it. Both of these abilities had a range of 40,000 if i recall? Which is almost an infinite range. You could easly use something like that from castle to castle in cyro.

Shadow Step got nerfed to only 1200 range. Shadow Trap has a 10,000 range. But keep in mind it has a 45s CD.

But ANET I find is far more "on the ball" when it comes to addressing imbalance. For example they have no problem fixing things on the fly, and they don't feel the need to wait until "big releases" to incrementally adjust skills for balance.

danno8

Xvorg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

GW2 had my 2 frav "rogue like" Abilties.

A trap on the ground that teleported you to it and made your invis when someone stepped on it. and also a Drop and teleport to ability. Both had somewhat endless distances. The trap was really nice because you could drop it when someone was chasing you. they would step on it and it would cause you to pretty much vanish mid air because it teleported you behind them and invis. you just turn around and go the other way. ( could also be used to protect a flag or something as when someone went to it you would teleport to it)

The other you would drop it somewhere run into a huge group of people aoe a few times then teleport out back behind your lines. Or you would assassinate their healer types then teleport. Was quite fun. It worked. Wasnt overpowered. ESO players are just babies when it comes to NBs but dont know how well they got it vs other games lol.

ESO's biggest problem with stealth is that it is spammable. GW2 and most other mmo's have skill cooldowns which make it much easier to balance those skills. Strong skill? Bigger CD. Easy.

Most MMORPG have larger bars than ESO too and that's why cooldowns work without any problem there. Having sapmmable skills is needed here as well as animation cancel. Cooldowns will only slow the game.

The problem right now, even with cloak, is not that it is spammable, it is the infinite resources you can get with certain builds

The spammability and infinite resources go hand and hand. They are inextricably linked.

Not necessarily. Limit the resources regen and spammability is out of the equation. It even favors a more tank oriented "now it's my turn" playingstyle

I feel like you are saying the same thing as me, but somehow also disagreeing.

To be clear, I am saying the no cooldown setup is fine, but when combined with infinite resources it becomes a problem.

Jumper45

danno8 wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

Shadow Step ( has a return action so you drop it then do whatever and then u can use it to teleport back to where you used it. and Shadow Trap was the other ability when stepping on it would allow you to teleport to who ever stepped on it. Both of these abilities had a range of 40,000 if i recall? Which is almost an infinite range. You could easly use something like that from castle to castle in cyro.

Shadow Step got nerfed to only 1200 range. Shadow Trap has a 10,000 range. But keep in mind it has a 45s CD.

But ANET I find is far more "on the ball" when it comes to addressing imbalance. For example they have no problem fixing things on the fly, and they don't feel the need to wait until "big releases" to incrementally adjust skills for balance.

Ahh. yeah its been a while since ive played or been in RVR heh. But yes very true they fixed things ASAP. Still quite the distance on those abilities.

Wreuntzylla

KenaPKK wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

I think it is meant to aid in mobility. Not be a "get out of any situation scot free".

Given the amount speed, mobility, stealth and teleports available to the NB class, I think any further buffs need to wait until at least after the next DLC drops. They are very strong right now and need no further buffs.

We have a gap closer, cloak, and shade. That is the limit of our "mobility." Our gap closer puts us on the enemy's face, cloak is in fact not mobility at all and is easily countered, and shade is buggy and often unreliable. Also the range is short for open world Cyro combat. You're exaggerating.

Y u no blur?