Has ESO become a console MMO?

Darlgon

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

ZoS put PC game development on hold for 3-6 MONTHS, while they polished Console release..

The second point fails completely. Clearly, they released the PC first, which supports the idea that the PC was prioritized, not the other way around. Compare this to games like GTA V that hit console before PC. Did that mean that the consoles where GTA V beta?

Of course ZOS had to prioritize getting the console release out the door. They had already sold the units a year earlier.

In fact, each DLC hits PC before consoles. Those delays also mean that consoles often wait longer for bug fixes and quality of life improvements that are rolled into DLC updates.

Also, PC continues to have a far superior interface than the horrific looking menus on consoles.

No.. it does not fail.. you must be new here.. or a console player .. so .. REALLLY new. Zenimax Online was the one who said basically:

"We are freezing development of the PC game, from August 2014 on, after Craglorn, until we get the consoles launched in 2015. We will still continue to do bug fixes."

If I have to, I will find the quote, if it has not been censored off the boards, because it lead to a lot of of Beta players, who had max level characters, leaving the game, due to, no where to advance to..

The fact that, when broken code hits PC, it get fixed, and patched.. THEN its submitted to Sony/Microhard or whoever for certification, means that.. Yes Virginia.. PC is indeed Beta testing for consoles.. I am afraid Console patch notes after a major change are WAY smaller than the PC ones.

As far as interfaces? Well.. have not seen the ones for console, but I can tell you that.. probably 95% of any videos you see on Youtube of PC players, have players running AT LEAST 10 mods, and usually 20 plus like me, to alter the interface and make it less horribad than the clean ZoS one.

Edited.. Oh.. on my last point..:From the 2014 Road Ahead:

ZoS_MattFiror wrote:

It’s also important to note that the Xbox One and Playstation 4 versions of ESO are not just ports of the PC/Mac game. We have completely replaced the PC user interface with a console-specific UI designed from the ground-up with a controller and a living room play experience in mind. We’ve also added voice chat and full integration with XBL and PSN. Expect to see lots of news about our console versions in early 2015.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/142038/the-road-ahead-december-4/p1

J2JMC

Sallington wrote: »

If ZOS focused on making a PC-only MMO and never bothered with consoles, the game would be in a much better state right now.

But, they did focus on consoles, and now we have an MMO catering to the single-player crowd that eat up paid DLC.

Now it's just bandaid fixes while they rush out the next DLC.

The bolded has nothing to do with consoles, and everything to do with the Elder Scrolls title.

Lysette

IMO PC players are far more consistent when it comes to long-play of a game (and that is the crowd which will stay), and that might be, because they have more options to "change" the game to their liking with add-ons for example. This is all much harder on a console, which is like it is and you can hardly change how it works.

Another guess of mine is, that console gamers are thinking more like consumers and they consume content, they do not provide it to the most part. An MMO lives from the content, which players themselves create to a big part, like communities and guilds, this requires proper communication and this is crap on consoles in ESO - if ZOS is not doing something in this matter, they will loose console players faster than they will gain them - an MMO relies on communication between players.

The TES fans should not be underestimated when it comes to long-play, because those are players which actually enjoy the content and do not just burn through it as if it would be tinder. So in the long run, ESO will be more of a PvE game than a typical MMO, simply because PvPer burn through the content and with lack of communication they have a hard time to establish their specific self-made content and they will get frustrated after a while and leave. What is left are PvE players and TES fans. So IMO ZOS is on the right path, when they develop PvE content over PvP content, because the PvP guys will not stay, but move on.

Just my ideas, those could be wrong, but that is how i see it.

Zorrashi

dday3six wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

If ZOS focused on making a PC-only MMO and never bothered with consoles, the game would be in a much better state right now.

But, they did focus on consoles, and now we have an MMO catering to the single-player crowd that eat up paid DLC.

Now it's just bandaid fixes while they rush out the next DLC.

The TES purists. You know the ones that making frothing at the mouth posts about anything breaking lore and immersion. The ones saying "Only if Elder Scrolls is removed from the title...", to any suggestion they feel doesn't belong in Elder Scrolls, regardless of whether it might actually improve the game. That's the biggest thing holding ESO back. The inflexible nature of being an TES title, and ZOS having to cater to persnickety fandom.

Please, the lore is one of the main things keeping the game afloat. In case you were not made aware, a more-than-decent portion of players only came to this game because it has TES in its title, and it got bashed by reviewers precisely because it wasn't "TES enough". The ones who stayed are actually of a more moderate crowd, believe it or not.
You are quite mistaken if believe the lore of TES a curse that needs to be relenquished.
(And a special note: the lore is actually quite fluid. Much like the tales shown the elder scrolls themselves. What is really critiqued is the artfulness--or lack thereof--in which that new lore was implemented.)

bedlom

Maybe if we had a chat box and our character names were visable

Wolfshead

@robkrush

Well honest i think you are wrong now the last days i have been lvl new alt and honest in every factions i have been lvl my alts i see people run around 3 1st zone heck just yesterday people was queue at chest just like at start when ESO 1st went online and i play on PC EU i dont know if is just for it is holidays or what but it is crazy and it is somewhat fun see.

I think it more depand on what time you are playing i been online mostly daytime.

FriedEggSandwich

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

PC EU pvp seems to be thriving despite the issues. I've never played console though so I can't compare.

Is PvP a good bellwether for overall game health/profitibility?

It's a large portion of the game, and it's all I can comment on, not being a great pve'r. In my personal opinion pvp is the end game; it's where those skills you learn continue to be relevant. It also brings more people together in one instance than any pve zone. So yes I believe pvp is a good bellwether for overall game health. What is there left to do when all pve content has been completed? I wouldn't expect everyone to agree though.

Lysette

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

PC EU pvp seems to be thriving despite the issues. I've never played console though so I can't compare.

Is PvP a good bellwether for overall game health/profitibility?

It's a large portion of the game, and it's all I can comment on, not being a great pve'r. In my personal opinion pvp is the end game; it's where those skills you learn continue to be relevant. It also brings more people together in one instance than any pve zone. So yes I believe pvp is a good bellwether for overall game health. What is there left to do when all pve content has been completed? I wouldn't expect everyone to agree though.

It takes months if not years for real PvE players to have seen and enjoyed the content enough (it can as well take years, otherwise the oblivion and skyrim modding community would no longer be active, but they are), before a real need for new content is there. We don't burn through content in a couple of weeks like you PvP-Pros, but try to immerse into the game. What you call "end game" is for a PvE player not desirable at all. Not because there would not be any content left, as you think, but because enjoying the way to having seen all and done all and enjoyed all enough is the goal. Acquiring high end gear and achieving max levels is not really a goal for us PvE players. We will eventually never get there, and that is fine, because the way is the goal, if we never get there, all the better - and so we do not have to worry about endgame.

Sausage

Console is doing pretty good, Im happy to see new 9 trait crafters are appearing almost daily.

ADarklore

In regards to PC, on Christmas Eve I was in the Wailing Prison with a new character and can say that I've never seen the Wailing Prison so full any time I've ever ran it. Every place I go in AD leveling zones there are players everywhere, even more so than it was when I first started playing back in May. So I'd say that with free-weekend and Christmas, we've picked up a LOT more players on PC.

While it is true that console players outnumber PC players. A few years ago many people were saying that PC gaming was dying off as more people were going to consoles, tablets, phones, etc for gaming. Yet here we are a few years later and PC gaming IMO is still thriving.

As for MMO... why is it that people fail to realize (or just fail to accept because it doesn't fit what they WANT to be true), what MMO meant 10+ years ago does not mean what it does today because of the massive shift in online game accessibility. Back in the day, only PC gamers could enjoy online gaming, and there were very few offerings so they tended to be full of people. Fast forward to today, and now all new gen consoles have wifi and most households have high speed internet, so obviously a massive amount of players are now wanting to experience online games- not necessarily "to play group content", but just to have a game with options, with the fun of playing along side others, to play a game that is frequently updated and expanded. So yes, you have a huge number of previously single player gamers looking for an online game but not necessarily 'group' content. This is why ESO is doing well, it isn't the MMO players who are driving the game, it is the single-player gamers and Elder Scrolls fans driving it. You have to figure that ZOS knows what players are playing what, they can tell how often players are grouping, how often they PvP, how often which group spends money on Crowns, etc... and they are going to make content for the majority of their gamers. With the huge success of Orsinium, to me that shows exactly WHO their majority market is... PvE players who enjoy questing, and a significant number of those prefer playing solo.

BackFreckle

dday3six wrote: »

The TES purists. You know the ones that making frothing at the mouth posts about anything breaking lore and immersion. The ones saying "Only if Elder Scrolls is removed from the title...", to any suggestion they feel doesn't belong in Elder Scrolls, regardless of whether it might actually improve the game. That's the biggest thing holding ESO back. The inflexible nature of being an TES title, and ZOS having to cater to persnickety fandom.

Post of the year.

NewBlacksmurf

I think there are plenty of folks on all three.
I know way back during the PC sub when I was on PC there was either 600k-800k active subs and when Xbox and ps4 released, there were about that many for each system that purchased the game.

Active players....no way of knowing but I'd think that logically there are more console players just because of how easy it is to buy and play a console as you can share the machine with family and even have multiple accounts per family member. PC doesn't work that way even tho you can share the PC and the same account it would cause console accounts to be much larger


Also....active may be defined as log-in one time in 30 days

ADarklore

BackFreckle wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

The TES purists. You know the ones that making frothing at the mouth posts about anything breaking lore and immersion. The ones saying "Only if Elder Scrolls is removed from the title...", to any suggestion they feel doesn't belong in Elder Scrolls, regardless of whether it might actually improve the game. That's the biggest thing holding ESO back. The inflexible nature of being an TES title, and ZOS having to cater to persnickety fandom.

Post of the year.

I think you might want to check out this poll... with 85% of the respondents saying that they care about lore, clearly it isn't holding ESO back.

BackFreckle

ADarklore wrote: »

BackFreckle wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

The TES purists. You know the ones that making frothing at the mouth posts about anything breaking lore and immersion. The ones saying "Only if Elder Scrolls is removed from the title...", to any suggestion they feel doesn't belong in Elder Scrolls, regardless of whether it might actually improve the game. That's the biggest thing holding ESO back. The inflexible nature of being an TES title, and ZOS having to cater to persnickety fandom.

Post of the year.

I think you might want to check out this poll... with 85% of the respondents saying that they care about lore, clearly it isn't holding ESO back.

As a person in this thread has stated in other topics (can't say who for obvious reasons LOL), polls are pretty much meaningless on the forums. Many are biased and are only seen/participated by a small majority of the player base.

Example, as I care nothing about the lore of this game I wouldn't click on a thread/poll that had something about lore in the title as it wouldn't interest me. Which would be another discounted votes among the many

ADarklore

BackFreckle wrote: »

As a person in this thread has stated in other topics (can't say who for obvious reasons LOL), polls are pretty much meaningless on the forums. Many are biased and are only seen/participated by a small majority of the player base.

Example, as I care nothing about the lore of this game I wouldn't click on a thread/poll that had something about lore in the title as it wouldn't interest me. Which would be another discounted votes among the many

Just because you don't want to accept it, doesn't mean it isn't reality. The overwhelming number of players in this game are previous Elder Scrolls players, and let's not forget how many copies of Skyrim were sold, not including the numbers sold of previous ES titles. While I was not a previous ES title player (although I did dabble in Skyrim a bit), and I personally don't care about Lore, I do appreciate the fact that this game is part of the ES world and don't have any problems with them sticking to lore-based decisions.

BackFreckle

ADarklore wrote: »

BackFreckle wrote: »

As a person in this thread has stated in other topics (can't say who for obvious reasons LOL), polls are pretty much meaningless on the forums. Many are biased and are only seen/participated by a small majority of the player base.

Example, as I care nothing about the lore of this game I wouldn't click on a thread/poll that had something about lore in the title as it wouldn't interest me. Which would be another discounted votes among the many

Just because you don't want to accept it, doesn't mean it isn't reality. The overwhelming number of players in this game are previous Elder Scrolls players, and let's not forget how many copies of Skyrim were sold, not including the numbers sold of previous ES titles. While I was not a previous ES title player (although I did dabble in Skyrim a bit), and I personally don't care about Lore, I do appreciate the fact that this game is part of the ES world and don't have any problems with them sticking to lore-based decisions.

The point in the example was to show one persons viewpoint not to generalize a fraction of the player base. And it's not that I don't "accept that" it's that you replied to my earlier coment by showing me a poll that less than half of the ppl on this forum participated in on a website which less than half of the overall player base participates in. No ones denying the fact that ppl who really really enjoyed previous ES titles are the ones who kept this game going through the dark times.

I just hate seeing posts of the lore community hating on certain things that are added to the game because they "break lore" or "they don't fit in with lore". I just want to put on my scarecrow polymorph while riding my frost horse mount in peace

Although if they added something crazy like flying dragons then I would understand the anger

Vaoh

@dday5689

I bought ESO because it's a TES game...
Also found myself ready to leave at one point when my main was a V6 because of the grind. Decided to start a new character and now I have a V16, a V1, and a lvl9. My old main V6 is a master crafter now and doesnt play anymore.

I was very close to quitting, like a ridiculous amount of people I know already did. Only gave the game another chance because... it was a TES game. Now I am probably never going to leave as I love the end game, but I can see most of the people who have left this game returning once vet ranks are gone. The game only goes uphill from where it's at now (I hope)! ESO is bound to be successful BECAUSE it's a TES game.

As a side note, a friend of mine returned recently after hearing about the catch-up mechanic for CPs and gave it another chance. As a long time TES fan, the only reason he even considered giving it another chance and didn't sell the game, was because of the franchise.

stitchmh

I'm feeling insulted.......

robkrush

stitchmh wrote: »

I'm feeling insulted.......

None intended.

We've learned that players from all platforms perceive that the game is going strong. That's a good thing.

The general consensus is that adding consoles slowed game development. Not consoles fault, the suits made that choice. If anything it shows ZOS needs more bodies to carry the workload.

Lightninvash

ADarklore wrote: »

BackFreckle wrote: »

As a person in this thread has stated in other topics (can't say who for obvious reasons LOL), polls are pretty much meaningless on the forums. Many are biased and are only seen/participated by a small majority of the player base.

Example, as I care nothing about the lore of this game I wouldn't click on a thread/poll that had something about lore in the title as it wouldn't interest me. Which would be another discounted votes among the many

Just because you don't want to accept it, doesn't mean it isn't reality. The overwhelming number of players in this game are previous Elder Scrolls players, and let's not forget how many copies of Skyrim were sold, not including the numbers sold of previous ES titles. While I was not a previous ES title player (although I did dabble in Skyrim a bit), and I personally don't care about Lore, I do appreciate the fact that this game is part of the ES world and don't have any problems with them sticking to lore-based decisions.

Being a fan of TES games since morrowind it was never about the lore. copies sold doesn't make it about lore

Lysette

Lightninvash wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

BackFreckle wrote: »

As a person in this thread has stated in other topics (can't say who for obvious reasons LOL), polls are pretty much meaningless on the forums. Many are biased and are only seen/participated by a small majority of the player base.

Example, as I care nothing about the lore of this game I wouldn't click on a thread/poll that had something about lore in the title as it wouldn't interest me. Which would be another discounted votes among the many

Just because you don't want to accept it, doesn't mean it isn't reality. The overwhelming number of players in this game are previous Elder Scrolls players, and let's not forget how many copies of Skyrim were sold, not including the numbers sold of previous ES titles. While I was not a previous ES title player (although I did dabble in Skyrim a bit), and I personally don't care about Lore, I do appreciate the fact that this game is part of the ES world and don't have any problems with them sticking to lore-based decisions.

Being a fan of TES games since morrowind it was never about the lore. copies sold doesn't make it about lore

Hm, but doesn't the lore influence you as well?- Me for example, I liked to play Altmer characters in Oblivion, but since I have seen what this pesky race did to the TES world, I started to get very uncomfortable with that race and their arrogant nature. Would you say, that playing skyrim did not make you hate the Thalmor and their way to oppose their will onto others?-

And then again, if you look at Morrowind for example, did the choice of your preferred house not influence your play style and how you see the world. Me I was fond of being a member of house Hlaalu, even they were kind of a special form of Mafia, but I loved as well to be a member of the Morag Tong, so this went hand in hand in a way. And with it and immersing myself into the game, my disgust towards the houses of Redoran and Telvani grew - didn't you feel any of this?.- This is all TES-lore.

Lightninvash

Lysette wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

BackFreckle wrote: »

As a person in this thread has stated in other topics (can't say who for obvious reasons LOL), polls are pretty much meaningless on the forums. Many are biased and are only seen/participated by a small majority of the player base.

Example, as I care nothing about the lore of this game I wouldn't click on a thread/poll that had something about lore in the title as it wouldn't interest me. Which would be another discounted votes among the many

Just because you don't want to accept it, doesn't mean it isn't reality. The overwhelming number of players in this game are previous Elder Scrolls players, and let's not forget how many copies of Skyrim were sold, not including the numbers sold of previous ES titles. While I was not a previous ES title player (although I did dabble in Skyrim a bit), and I personally don't care about Lore, I do appreciate the fact that this game is part of the ES world and don't have any problems with them sticking to lore-based decisions.

Being a fan of TES games since morrowind it was never about the lore. copies sold doesn't make it about lore

Hm, but doesn't the lore influence you as well?- Me for example, I liked to play Altmer characters in Oblivion, but since I have seen what this pesky race did to the TES world, I started to get very uncomfortable with that race and their arrogant nature. Would you say, that playing skyrim did not make you hate the Thalmor and their way to oppose their will onto others?-

And then again, if you look at Morrowind for example, did the choice of your preferred house not influence your play style and how you see the world. Me I was fond of being a member of house Hlaalu, even they were kind of a special form of Mafia, but I loved as well to be a member of the Morag Tong, so this went hand in hand in a way. And with it and immersing myself into the game, my disgust towards the houses of Redoran and Telvani grew - didn't you feel any of this?.- This is all TES-lore.

for me no it doesn't influence how I play all except one thing. I like the High elf because they are a "superior race". that being said they are arrogant and I love it. that's about it. whatever they do don't bug me. I will play any race but when I play my altmer I play more arrogant than I would generally play haha. just to get in tune with my char. but the lore don't matter to me personally. And as far as the not liking what one group did here or there has no influence on me

dday3six

I wasn't referring solely to lore. I was commenting also on a difference of gameplay experience between a single player title and an MMO.

I'll give you few examples. Race change/barbershop and visible damage numbers. Neither are by default in TES titles, but are commonplace in MMOs, or other even RPG's. All are being added because of player demand, and are generally thought to be a positive upcoming addition to the game. Still there are players who strongly disapprove of these elements. They plead the case of them not fitting into ESO because they do not fit into TES multiverse. They want ESO to play exactly like any other TES title, but the truth is by virture of being an MMO, it isn't going to. It was to appease those players, who turned out to be the minority, that many typical MMO trimmings weren't considered for the from the start, and I think that is part of the problem with ESO.

I find ESO to have an identity crisis, and feel it should embrace that it is in fact an MMO. So for instance I don't think ZOS should not add a new never before seen or even mentioned race, but I do think race changes should be available, as it let's players respond to the state of flux within an MMO.

Lysette

As far as I have heard, race changes are considered by ZOS.

NewBlacksmurf

The barbershop is in one TES title built into the lore so its pretty much a logical item in either of the next two expansions based on what was announced to come.

altemriel

nah, there are still tons of players on PC EU megaserver on prime time . cities crowded, dungeons too!

relax !!