Some ideas for a DK rework:

Aunatar

Some ideas I had for a DK rework (note that I have 3 dk's, dunmer magicka dd, redguard stamina dd and imperial tank) and I would like to discuss:

Shifting Standard:
Ultimate cost reduced to 200

Fiery grip:
The range is increased to 18 meters.
Extended chain (morph):
The range is extended to 28 meters and the skill costs less.
Empowered chain (morph):
You throw a chain that deals X physical dmg and snares the target for 60% for the duration of the skill (3 seconds), which becomes a channeled ability. On a successful hit the chain pulses for Y fLAME dmg, which increases for 12% every second; dodging the chain or interrupting the caster stops the ability and the snare.
(The caster can move for the duration).

Lava whip:
deals X flame dmg and also increases the dmg of the ardent flame abilities by Y when slotted.
Molten slash (stamina morph):
This skill now scales of max stamina and weapon dmg.
Deals X FLAME dmg and also increases the dmg of the ardent flame abilities by Y when slotted; also adds 30% PHYSICAL dmg when striking disoriented enemies.
Flame lash (magicka morph):
same effect as now, but adds the effect of molten whip.
(Magicka DK's you can't QQ about this!)

Inferno (costs magicka):
You throw a fast traveling fire ball from your hands to a target in a 15 meters range. deals X flame dmg plus addictional Y flame dmg over 5 seconds. This skill has a cast-time of 1 second (we have enough spammable skills) and it' no longer a toggle.
Flames of oblivion (morph):
The dmg over time increases for 12% every second and the skill has increased range to 25 meters.
Sea of flames (morph):
The skill is now an instant cast, deals less dmg and doesn't apply a dmg over time anymore. Hits 2 different nearbie targets for 50% of the initial dmg.

Molten weapons (morph):
A full charged attack now also deals X flame dmg over 8 seconds; hitting with a medium or light attack removes the dmg over time.

Dragon blood:
Healing increased from 33% to 40% of missing HP.

I think this might be a good starting point: no nerfs for magicka DK's, some rework for utterly useless magicka skills.
please, if you are not QQing about surprise attack or jabs, don't QQ about a stamina whip which deals FLAME dmg, that can be mitigated from the Elemental Defender CP.
Save us from that useless QQ and please not a single "Magicka DK op"; note that these changes wouldn't affect PvE dps, apart from molten weapons, which is an useless morph at the moment.
For everyone else, throw your comments! Discuss this!

Wing

here back in closed beta and fellow DK4Life, some other ideas/suggestions.

-stamina whip: obvious is obvious.
-a ranged attack of any kind (like crystal frags, vampires bane, swallow soul, etc.)
-perhaps add a small flat amount of healing to dragon blood
-chains rework: it needs to be consistent (its not its effect changes) not apply cc immunity, and work.
-standard buff: decrease cost or increased effects.
-inhale adjustment (reduce the delay between activation and damage burst or increase the damage to meaningful levels)
-inferno rework: less then bad damage combined with buffs better received from other sources, its not an option if one of the options is garbage.
-molten weapons rework: stop trying to force people to use heavy attacks, and trying to combine that with a tiny duration buff we have to constantly refresh? and further insult to injury claiming its our execute?! just trash this skill and give us another, at least back in the day we had group utility.

probably more but that's it for now.

Draxys

Empowering chains morph needs to be replaced with an actual magicka gap closer

Alucardo

1) Molten Whip scales off your highest attribute (so works for stam and magicka)
2) Standard should do more damage and cost less, plain and simple
3) Chains should work like a real gap closer. No more of this free CC immunity on your target, no more blocking/dodging it, no more "I wonder if I'll get pulled or they will come to me". Just make it a gap closer. Alternatively, it could turn you into fire, hurling you into the target and knocking them down for 2 seconds, which would then give them CC immunity of course.
4) Magicka DK execute
5) Buff flame lash damage and heal. It's weaksauce
6) Inferno should give Major Sorcery and a spell ward or minor heroism (ulti gain). It's like the last skill in the tree, so at least make it awesome.
7) Buff battle roar. Yeah, you heard me.
8) Corrosive Armor should ignore physical and spell resistances, not just physical.
9) Make Dragon Blood 33% heal in Cyrodiil again. 16% or whatever it is now is just not enough. Add Minor Resolve and Minor Ward also?
10) Buff stone fist and make a stamina morph
11) Inhale should hit far more than just 3 targets. The fire damage after 2.5 seconds should do a lot more damage also. You're channeling this cool fire explosion for underwhelming damage. It's pretty sad.

Forestd16b14_ESO

My 2 cents and been DK since beta and still using my one since day -7 (the 1 week early access for pre orders).

Spiked armor: On activation increases armor and spell res by X how it is now and deals nearby enemies DOT damage of X over 10 seconds.

Volitile armor: Skill now scales off stamina and weapon damage. (Stamina morphs) increases armor and spell res X amount. Deals physical DOT damage on activation over 10 seconds and returns X amount of damage to attacks when struck by a physical melee strike

Harden armor: Same as volitle armor but magicka based. Scales of spell damage and magicka and deals magicka DOT and returns X ammount of damage when struck by a magical melee attack (such as ambush or surprise attack).

Dragons blood: When activated heals 40% of missing health and applies a HOT on caster for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

Green Dragons Blood: Activate restore 40% missing health and stamina and applies a HOT on caster for 5000 for 5 seconds.

Coagulating Dragons Blood: Activate to restore 40% missing health to caster and allies in a 10 meter radius and applies HOT for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

(maybe not so powerful HOTs for blood but meh us DKs been nerfed to much and about time we got some power back.)

tangy.citrus

What about this:
Magicka DK pve is still best dps
Stam DK pve is now best stam dps with orsinium patch

LRN2DK

Alucardo

tangy.citrus wrote: »

What about this:
Magicka DK pve is still best dps
Stam DK pve is now best stam dps with orsinium patch

LRN2DK

This game is about more than just PVE

tangy.citrus

DK has gotten emp, stam dk can be op as *** if played right in pvp. I really dont think its as 'bad' as everyone is suggesting it is.

Why would you want a stam whip anyways? Would probably be *** in pvp.

Forestd16b14_ESO

tangy.citrus wrote: »

DK has gotten emp, stam dk can be op as *** if played right in pvp. I really dont think its as 'bad' as everyone is suggesting it is.

Why would you want a stam whip anyways? Would probably be *** in pvp.

And by right you mean exploit the tiniest thing and hide behind a shield while block cast spamming wrecking blow, steel tornado, and whip or one of those "I win" buttons ?

It's cause of players like you why DKs gotten nerfed in the first place and over nerfed in the second place and yet to be buffed in the third place.

Djeriko

I care about only one change to DK. Bring back the miss/dodge chance in Cinder Storm (Ash cloud morph).

At first it was around 30% miss chance for enemies in the aoe. They took out all player casted miss chance mechanics and instead gave us the distance cast cinder storm and eruption which is beyond dumb. It's only effective when the enemies are in a tight group and would often be around yourself so distance casting is wasted. Since the original was self area casted it was perfect. Added miss chance made it perfect for tanking. I've suggested a replacement for miss chance as dodge chance for the caster as long as he is standing in the aoe but devs have yet to respond. As long as the caster stays in the self casted aoe of Cinder Storm, the caster has 20% dodging added with snare and dot of fire dmg to ememies inside it. This is easy to do since you can compare it to the fighters guild ability to drop an aoe buff in a circle casted centered on the caster. @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_MattFiror

Alcast

ZOS has one issue, if those changes would get real then DK in general would be hilarious OP in PvE again.
Even now DK is strong bc of Standard and strong DoTs, boosting those would make them incredibly strong..tho in PvP nothing would change because Standard is still stuck on the ground and DoTs are useless because Purge.
And the mainissue, mainly Mobility, would still be there and unchanged.
However, now as they said they might change the CP system so you have a general dmg increase then Stamina Whip could actually be good, unless it keeps scaling with spell pene lul.


In the end we all know ZOS will f it up anyways

Bashev

PvP wise magicka DKs are lucking in defense and mobility if you are built for DPS.
I just linked what I already proposed to @Wrobel

Bashev wrote: »

@Wrobel

I would like to see 3 changes in my beloved class - Dragonknight.

Currently magicka DKs are lacking: damage, sustain, mobility, heals and survivability. I dont want to have mobility or super damage, but the class needs better survivability. Templars have strong class heals, Sorcs have strong class shields and NBs have cloack. What skill can DKs spam for defense? Reflective scales? But it is only against projectiles and it reflects only 4 if you are lucky and it doesnt bug out.

1) Reflective plate morph - absorbs all projectiles for 4 seconds. Each absorbed projectile heals you for 1% of your health

2) Elder dragon Passive regenerate 4% of your stamina while blocking for every draconic ability slotted (max 24% with all 6 skills) with 2k stamina regen you can regenerate 500 stamina while blocking. It will not help a lot the stamina builds because they can slot 2 or maximum 3 of these skills. Right now DKs have a passive that increase block mitigation but we cannot block longer anymore.

3) Passive similar to the Sorc's one to reduce the cost of the ultimates with 15%. Standard is expensive and DKs need ultimate faster to sustain their resources using battle roar.

Brrrofski

Stam DKs need nothing at all. They're already strong in pvp.

A Stam molten whip would be nice, but it's not essential

Aunatar

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

My 2 cents and been DK since beta and still using my one since day -7 (the 1 week early access for pre orders).

Spiked armor: On activation increases armor and spell res by X how it is now and deals nearby enemies DOT damage of X over 10 seconds.

Volitile armor: Skill now scales off stamina and weapon damage. (Stamina morphs) increases armor and spell res X amount. Deals physical DOT damage on activation over 10 seconds and returns X amount of damage to attacks when struck by a physical melee strike

Harden armor: Same as volitle armor but magicka based. Scales of spell damage and magicka and deals magicka DOT and returns X ammount of damage when struck by a magical melee attack (such as ambush or surprise attack).

Dragons blood: When activated heals 40% of missing health and applies a HOT on caster for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

Green Dragons Blood: Activate restore 40% missing health and stamina and applies a HOT on caster for 5000 for 5 seconds.

Coagulating Dragons Blood: Activate to restore 40% missing health to caster and allies in a 10 meter radius and applies HOT for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

(maybe not so powerful HOTs for blood but meh us DKs been nerfed to much and about time we got some power back.)

40% stamina restored? That would be extremely op man :'D

Aunatar

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam DKs need nothing at all. They're already strong in pvp.

A Stam molten whip would be nice, but it's not essential

With that effect stamina dk's don't gain anything if they don't spec for fire dmg, it' just a change i would like, because stamdk's should be able to spec for fire dmg as well (ardent flame passives wouldn' be so useless then)
The most important thing is merging the effect of molten whip and flame lash for a magicka morph. at that point, implementing a flame stamina whip is far than being op, but could be nice in PvE; I would still prefer low slash/puncture/twin slash in pvp aa an instant cast.

Islyn

Did I miss it or is there no execute in your workup?

Islyn

tangy.citrus wrote: »

What about this:
Magicka DK pve is still best dps
Stam DK pve is now best stam dps with orsinium patch

LRN2DK

Share your current (post orsinium) magicka dk build? Or post on Tamriel Foundry? I'd love to see your parses, as a mana DK. Thanks in advance! :-) I have a newish mana dk and I love checking out builds.

CavalierPrime

DK skills worth casting as a magicka DK:

Dragon Fire Scales (does nothing vs stamina sneak attacks)
Deep Breath (barely, situationally)
Igneous Shields (barely, if you have a Resto bar and a lot of CP)

End of list

Try a three spell rotation of Proximity Det, Deep Breath, and Elemental Ring with an ocassional Structured Entropy for some nice effects.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Aunatar wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

My 2 cents and been DK since beta and still using my one since day -7 (the 1 week early access for pre orders).

Spiked armor: On activation increases armor and spell res by X how it is now and deals nearby enemies DOT damage of X over 10 seconds.

Volitile armor: Skill now scales off stamina and weapon damage. (Stamina morphs) increases armor and spell res X amount. Deals physical DOT damage on activation over 10 seconds and returns X amount of damage to attacks when struck by a physical melee strike

Harden armor: Same as volitle armor but magicka based. Scales of spell damage and magicka and deals magicka DOT and returns X ammount of damage when struck by a magical melee attack (such as ambush or surprise attack).

Dragons blood: When activated heals 40% of missing health and applies a HOT on caster for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

Green Dragons Blood: Activate restore 40% missing health and stamina and applies a HOT on caster for 5000 for 5 seconds.

Coagulating Dragons Blood: Activate to restore 40% missing health to caster and allies in a 10 meter radius and applies HOT for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

(maybe not so powerful HOTs for blood but meh us DKs been nerfed to much and about time we got some power back.)

40% stamina restored? That would be extremely op man :'D

Oh pfft who cares after our wings being clipped we need some love.

Aunatar

Islyn wrote: »

Did I miss it or is there no execute in your workup?

Honestly, adding

Islyn wrote: »

Did I miss it or is there no execute in your workup?

I think that balancing the class is all what DK's need. Adding 1 skill isn't balance, tweaking the already existing ones is, imho.

Tryxus

I had a few ideas to buff the Mag DK while upping the Stam DK a bit without becoming OP:

General Changes:
- Chains: fix it ZOS by using an extra variable called "Chain Pulled" so if the Chains hit someone who hasn't been pulled is pulled like usual, and one who has been pulled simply takes damage at a distance. Upping the Damage a bit would be nice too
- Dragon Blood: double the healing. It's needed due to Battle Spirit in Cyrodiil, and with the Stam Block nerf the extra self heal from it would def add survivability to the King of Tanks

Magicka
- Increase the Damage of Lava Whip to similar values like Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack from the NB. This way, the Mag DK has a melee ranged Magicka attack that can't be reflected
- Turn Searing Strike and its morphs into a Curse, like Velocious Curse from the Sorcs. Instead of applying a DoT, the curse can't be purged and the effects will happen (Damage or heal). This'll be useful for both PvP and PvE (Heal and DPS builds)
- Turn Stonefist and its morphs into an execute: Mag DKs def need an execute attack, and since Stonefist's only real use it to lvl up Earthen Heart, I'd say this skill would finally become useful again.

Stamina
- Increase the duration of both Standard and Magma Armor Ultimates. DK's need to be better Battlefield Controllers in PvP and tanks in PvE. An increase in duration of these 2 skills is all they need for it.

Couple of suggestions for the almighty DKs. IMO, I think Mag DKs def could use skills like those: less relying on DoT and useful skills that can't be reflected (Lava Whip) or still hit a Cloaked NB (Searing Strike). Would be lethal with a Fire Staff and Crushing Shock or Flame Clench. And with Stonefist as an Execute, the Mag DK would be a true and viable build.

Stam DKs are in a good position, just a Duration increase for 2 Ultis and Dragon Blood becoming useful for them again is all they need

Feel free to discuss this and lemme know what you guys think

Forestd16b14_ESO

Oh since were talking about DKs that reminds me. @ZOS_BrianWheeler fix Magma Shell you know Magma armors other morph. Mainly what needs fix it's the synergy that gives allies the damage shield. To activate it how it is now you basicly have to be on top of the caster and clipping through them and even if you get the synergy option it only last for 1 second or 2 and even if you get it it only last for 2 or 3 seconds. Like needs foxed and or buffed.

Alucardo

PEOPLE ARE USING SHOOTING STAR MORPH NOW BECAUSE IT GOES THROUGH SCALES. PLEASE FIX.

Sharee

If i had to pick one, i'd say make fiery grip ignore CC immunity (so it neither triggers it, nor is affected by it, similar to roots).
If blocked, damage will be reduced but the pull will still happen. If dodged, damage will be zero but pull will still happen. Basically it would work like any other gap closer, except it would move the target, not his attacker. Pathing will follow the ambush rules (anywhere a NB could ambush a target, a DK will be able to pull it).

That way magicka DK's get an unique gap closer that is also reliable (and doesn't give the enemy free CC immunity).

Forestd16b14_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

PEOPLE ARE USING SHOOTING STAR MORPH NOW BECAUSE IT GOES THROUGH SCALES. PLEASE FIX.

It does what since when ?!

Alucardo

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

It does what since when ?!

Not sure for how long. It looks like the meteor reflects, but you still take full damage. Only happens with shooting star, not ice comet. Definitely a bug there.

Aunatar

Sharee wrote: »

If i had to pick one, i'd say make fiery grip ignore CC immunity (so it neither triggers it, nor is affected by it, similar to roots).
If blocked, damage will be reduced but the pull will still happen. If dodged, damage will be zero but pull will still happen. PLEASE NO, I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE THE TROLLS Basically it would work like any other gap closer, except it would move the target, not his attacker. Pathing will follow the ambush rules (anywhere a NB could ambush a target, a DK will be able to pull it).

That way magicka DK's get an unique gap closer that is also reliable (and doesn't give the enemy free CC immunity).

danno8

Sharee wrote: »

If i had to pick one, i'd say make fiery grip ignore CC immunity (so it neither triggers it, nor is affected by it, similar to roots).
If blocked, damage will be reduced but the pull will still happen. If dodged, damage will be zero but pull will still happen. Basically it would work like any other gap closer, except it would move the target, not his attacker. Pathing will follow the ambush rules (anywhere a NB could ambush a target, a DK will be able to pull it).

That way magicka DK's get an unique gap closer that is also reliable (and doesn't give the enemy free CC immunity).

Can't happen.

The pull prevents all actions on the one being pulled. You could just spam this one ability over and over and your target would be stun locked permanently.

If Eclipse for Templar can't work on CC immune targets and gives cc immunity if broken (and you can still run around and use all sorts of skills with Eclipse on you), there is no way they can give cc exemption to Chains.

danno8

Aunatar wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

My 2 cents and been DK since beta and still using my one since day -7 (the 1 week early access for pre orders).

Spiked armor: On activation increases armor and spell res by X how it is now and deals nearby enemies DOT damage of X over 10 seconds.

Volitile armor: Skill now scales off stamina and weapon damage. (Stamina morphs) increases armor and spell res X amount. Deals physical DOT damage on activation over 10 seconds and returns X amount of damage to attacks when struck by a physical melee strike

Harden armor: Same as volitle armor but magicka based. Scales of spell damage and magicka and deals magicka DOT and returns X ammount of damage when struck by a magical melee attack (such as ambush or surprise attack).

Dragons blood: When activated heals 40% of missing health and applies a HOT on caster for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

Green Dragons Blood: Activate restore 40% missing health and stamina and applies a HOT on caster for 5000 for 5 seconds.

Coagulating Dragons Blood: Activate to restore 40% missing health to caster and allies in a 10 meter radius and applies HOT for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

(maybe not so powerful HOTs for blood but meh us DKs been nerfed to much and about time we got some power back.)

40% stamina restored? That would be extremely op man :'D

Let's see, run out of stamina? Use GDB. Run out of Magicka to cast GDB? Use Ultimate (battle Roar). Not enough ultimate for Battle Roar? Use potion.

You would literally never run out of stamina with that suggestion.

danno8

DK needs some unpurgable DoT's imo. Everyone and their grandma has Purge slotted.They also suffer from 2 stars that provide direct mitigation to their abilities. Elemental and Thick Skinned, in addition to the standard spell resistance one.

This is why they hit so weak now.

Forestd16b14_ESO

danno8 wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

My 2 cents and been DK since beta and still using my one since day -7 (the 1 week early access for pre orders).

Spiked armor: On activation increases armor and spell res by X how it is now and deals nearby enemies DOT damage of X over 10 seconds.

Volitile armor: Skill now scales off stamina and weapon damage. (Stamina morphs) increases armor and spell res X amount. Deals physical DOT damage on activation over 10 seconds and returns X amount of damage to attacks when struck by a physical melee strike

Harden armor: Same as volitle armor but magicka based. Scales of spell damage and magicka and deals magicka DOT and returns X ammount of damage when struck by a magical melee attack (such as ambush or surprise attack).

Dragons blood: When activated heals 40% of missing health and applies a HOT on caster for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

Green Dragons Blood: Activate restore 40% missing health and stamina and applies a HOT on caster for 5000 for 5 seconds.

Coagulating Dragons Blood: Activate to restore 40% missing health to caster and allies in a 10 meter radius and applies HOT for 10,000 for 10 seconds.

(maybe not so powerful HOTs for blood but meh us DKs been nerfed to much and about time we got some power back.)

40% stamina restored? That would be extremely op man :'D

Let's see, run out of stamina? Use GDB. Run out of Magicka to cast GDB? Use Ultimate (battle Roar). Not enough ultimate for Battle Roar? Use potion.

You would literally never run out of stamina with that suggestion.

Problem being ??? What ?? That DKs become OP again ? Yet it's perfectly fine for NBs to be running PvP.

Fine how about this GDB restores 20% instead of 40%.