Magicka Nightblade vs Socerer?

LegionGemini

How is the NB supposed to win in this match up usually? All I end up doing is cloaking as soon as I see them use harness since I can't get through their shield. Obviously I know I won't be every sorcerer all of the time but I mean how would I go about beating most of the sorcerers most of the time?

Heindrich

A good magicka sorc vs a good magicka NB will likely end in stalemate.

As a NB, you need to use fear and time your burst... eg: drop a meteor, time your fear so that he cannot break cc and block when the meteor hits. The meteor then knocks him to the ground, giving you some precious time to dps. Ideally you should save up an Assassin's Will for this burst too. Easier said than done ofc...

revonine

It's easier done for me with a destro setup for constant pressure. You won't have to worry about them camping in their mines as you will be playing from range.
Their typical Det - Curse - insta frag can be blocked.
If your playing dual wield and play in melee range you can bash the detonation to interrupt it.
In general it's quite difficult to fight a good sorc as if you make one mistake or don't manage your stamina you will get burst down pretty easily.
Don't be a vamp either if you take a direct Dawnbreaker of Smiting from a high spell damage Sorc you will most likely not recover. As others have said, considering all things are equal it will most likely end up in a stalemate. In the end it's the same reason I don't duel Sorcs on my Sorc battles just take too long

Sharmony

Burst largely. From what I gather you need to get them to go defensive asap and keep pushing.

revonine

More advice, if you are playing dual wield melee magblade if you are gap closing to a sorc that is mine camping hold block while gap closing. You'll take far less damage from the minefield.

TheBull

I watched a 38 min duel once. I've been in a couple 20 min+ ones. It's not worth it... I avoid mage blade sorc duels now a days.

Derra

TheBull wrote: »

I watched a 38 min duel once. I've been in a couple 20 min+ ones. It's not worth it...

I feel it´s very imporatant to mention that this goes both ways.

The sorc is also wondering how they´re supposed to kill that pesky NB (personally i´m more comfotable with playing NB in that matchup as cloak gives control over the fight).

TheBull

Derra wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I watched a 38 min duel once. I've been in a couple 20 min+ ones. It's not worth it...

I feel it´s very imporatant to mention that this goes both ways.

The sorc is also wondering how they´re supposed to kill that pesky NB (personally i´m more comfotable with playing NB in that matchup as cloak gives control over the fight).

I've found cloak is more of a waste of magicka cs a sorc due to curse.

FriedEggSandwich

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I watched a 38 min duel once. I've been in a couple 20 min+ ones. It's not worth it...

I feel it´s very imporatant to mention that this goes both ways.

The sorc is also wondering how they´re supposed to kill that pesky NB (personally i´m more comfotable with playing NB in that matchup as cloak gives control over the fight).

I've found cloak is more of a waste of magicka cs a sorc due to curse.

Run behind them before the curse pops so that they only hear it pop and don't see you. This way they have to spin round when they hear it pop to try to catch sight of you, giving you plently of time to re-cloak.

MrGigglypants

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

I watched a 38 min duel once. I've been in a couple 20 min+ ones. It's not worth it...

I feel it´s very imporatant to mention that this goes both ways.

The sorc is also wondering how they´re supposed to kill that pesky NB (personally i´m more comfotable with playing NB in that matchup as cloak gives control over the fight).

I've found cloak is more of a waste of magicka cs a sorc due to curse.

Run behind them before the curse pops so that they only hear it pop and don't see you. This way they have to spin round when they hear it pop to try to catch sight of you, giving you plently of time to re-cloak.

Thought i was the only one who did this lol

Wreuntzylla

Odd, I run radiant magelight on one of my three bars and kill magicka NBs as if they were templars.

I don't know why people make things out to be more difficult than they have to be.

tennant94

It all depends on the skill levels but on the assumption that both players are equally skilled use proxy det, fear soul harvest just before the proxy det explodes and then spam concealed or w/e your spammable ability is. The key is to time your burst effectively.

Waffennacht

Timing is everything, current meta would say your best bet would be to fear, after the second fear a typical sorc should be outta stamina so we can't cc break. Then hit em with everything you got, they should go down, I would suggest using your most powerful move first (during a fear) that way if the sorc does recover he is forces to try and heal himself or run.

leepalmer95

Meteor + fear + proxy det.

Of course wilt them a bit with funnel and crippling grasp for the dot.

Cyantific87

I have run destro magicka NB since 1.5 and a lot has changed for the better and I would say the Magicka NB is probably stronger than the magicka sorc in a 1v1 situation even taking shields into the equation. I find that using funnel health and just ranged attacks are enough to keep up the pressure that you MUST do to a sorc and because funnel health is so cheap it means your magicka will constantly be around 75%+. You can use the ranged CC on the siphoning tree also instead of fear if needed which also adds some DOT after...so once you have merciless resolve procced, start with cripple>Assasins will>Lotus Fan>Soul Harvest and maybe a concealed weapon to finish off.. Also, running with a destro staff I found my resources(magicka/stamina) are much better with siphoning attacks than harness magicka..

Also, never underestimate the power of the shade. Reduced damage incoming and a constant dot(albeit a small one) still adds good pressure..and finally, cloak... that is how you control the fight, if they are using detect pots then they aren't using tri stat.. Cloak is still really strong in almost all situations and better than it has ever been for NB's.

Ezareth

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

Waffennacht

Ezareth wrote: »

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

46K...gees... next, quiet you, we sorcs will be nerfed again if they realize how good we can be with some stamina

Tal_72

Ezareth wrote: »

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

@Ezareth Props on your ele vids once up on a time. They got me to roll my first shammy.

Regarding your post, this is one of the reasons I was toying with going Wood Elf on a magicka NB. Have you gone up against any--especially ones that drop invisbats with concealed blade stuns with stealthy buffed damage?

Whitebrad25

@Tal_72 remember the wood elf racial passive adds x percent stamina regen...it is percentage based so remember that while the regen would be better than if you went another race, the percentage addition of a small number is still a small number....unless you invest into the champion point tree or glyph for more Stam regen, you wouldn't really be effectively taking advantage of the base percentage regen of the wood elf and you would just likely miss out on magic DPS in return.

Whitebrad25

Also note that regen ticks in 2 second increments so the xxx return you get on the Stam regen of a magicka based wood elf would sort of be a moot point without investing further with CP or glyphs and doing this removes the effectiveness of your magic and DPS as a magic based build.


If you're thinking about needing stamina as a magic build, I'd firstly look into champion points since many of the stats have diminished returns, you should have enough leeway to not throw your build way out of whack.


Next you could always use hakiejo essence glyphs on large pieces of armor with infused trait. All gold this will give you a decent pool of both stamina and magic regardless of build/race.



Negatives to 'balancing' a build like these methods....the current meta of gameplay where burst and insane DPS has taken effect...your DPS would suffer enough that if your actual playing skill isn't on point, you'll likely lose if all things were equal.

Ezareth

Tal_72 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

@Ezareth Props on your ele vids once up on a time. They got me to roll my first shammy.

Regarding your post, this is one of the reasons I was toying with going Wood Elf on a magicka NB. Have you gone up against any--especially ones that drop invisbats with concealed blade stuns with stealthy buffed damage?

@Tal_72

Good times being an elemental shaman before they were actually a thing ( :

Wood elf mageblade sounds decent especially if you run sword and board but sadly no race fully fits a mage blade setup.

Bats is just a Terrie ult in general, especially against a Sorc because they have bolt escape and shields and it isn't a bursty ult.

Immovable detect pots completely negate that setup. I was fighting a good mageblade last night and I was trying to explain to him that without sword and board there was really nothing he could do to kill me. Only takes 3 overloads then dead.

leepalmer95

Ezareth wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

@Ezareth Props on your ele vids once up on a time. They got me to roll my first shammy.

Regarding your post, this is one of the reasons I was toying with going Wood Elf on a magicka NB. Have you gone up against any--especially ones that drop invisbats with concealed blade stuns with stealthy buffed damage?

@Tal_72

Good times being an elemental shaman before they were actually a thing ( :

Wood elf mageblade sounds decent especially if you run sword and board but sadly no race fully fits a mage blade setup.

Bats is just a Terrie ult in general, especially against a Sorc because they have bolt escape and shields and it isn't a bursty ult.

Immovable detect pots completely negate that setup. I was fighting a good mageblade last night and I was trying to explain to him that without sword and board there was really nothing he could do to kill me. Only takes 3 overloads then dead.

Well they really need det to kill a sorc, and some sort of ranged cc. A few dots + the right timing on burst should be able to take a sorc out.

Ezareth

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

@Ezareth Props on your ele vids once up on a time. They got me to roll my first shammy.

Regarding your post, this is one of the reasons I was toying with going Wood Elf on a magicka NB. Have you gone up against any--especially ones that drop invisbats with concealed blade stuns with stealthy buffed damage?

@Tal_72

Good times being an elemental shaman before they were actually a thing ( :

Wood elf mageblade sounds decent especially if you run sword and board but sadly no race fully fits a mage blade setup.

Bats is just a Terrie ult in general, especially against a Sorc because they have bolt escape and shields and it isn't a bursty ult.

Immovable detect pots completely negate that setup. I was fighting a good mageblade last night and I was trying to explain to him that without sword and board there was really nothing he could do to kill me. Only takes 3 overloads then dead.

Well they really need det to kill a sorc, and some sort of ranged cc. A few dots + the right timing on burst should be able to take a sorc out.

Magicka det is horrible as a single target ability, especially since a good sorc will know how to shield right before it explodes or if necessary block it. It works as a burst mechanic for some sorcs because they can time it with curse, fragments and streak/dawnbreaker etc. But against other sorcs as a mageblade slotting it would be a mistake.

leepalmer95

Ezareth wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

@Ezareth Props on your ele vids once up on a time. They got me to roll my first shammy.

Regarding your post, this is one of the reasons I was toying with going Wood Elf on a magicka NB. Have you gone up against any--especially ones that drop invisbats with concealed blade stuns with stealthy buffed damage?

@Tal_72

Good times being an elemental shaman before they were actually a thing ( :

Wood elf mageblade sounds decent especially if you run sword and board but sadly no race fully fits a mage blade setup.

Bats is just a Terrie ult in general, especially against a Sorc because they have bolt escape and shields and it isn't a bursty ult.

Immovable detect pots completely negate that setup. I was fighting a good mageblade last night and I was trying to explain to him that without sword and board there was really nothing he could do to kill me. Only takes 3 overloads then dead.

Well they really need det to kill a sorc, and some sort of ranged cc. A few dots + the right timing on burst should be able to take a sorc out.

Magicka det is horrible as a single target ability, especially since a good sorc will know how to shield right before it explodes or if necessary block it. It works as a burst mechanic for some sorcs because they can time it with curse, fragments and streak/dawnbreaker etc. But against other sorcs as a mageblade slotting it would be a mistake.

Use fear + det + a meteor for burst to make it unblockable, or course make sure to actually dmg to sorc first and make sure dots are on. Spam concelaed and hope they die.

Ezareth

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

@Ezareth Props on your ele vids once up on a time. They got me to roll my first shammy.

Regarding your post, this is one of the reasons I was toying with going Wood Elf on a magicka NB. Have you gone up against any--especially ones that drop invisbats with concealed blade stuns with stealthy buffed damage?

@Tal_72

Good times being an elemental shaman before they were actually a thing ( :

Wood elf mageblade sounds decent especially if you run sword and board but sadly no race fully fits a mage blade setup.

Bats is just a Terrie ult in general, especially against a Sorc because they have bolt escape and shields and it isn't a bursty ult.

Immovable detect pots completely negate that setup. I was fighting a good mageblade last night and I was trying to explain to him that without sword and board there was really nothing he could do to kill me. Only takes 3 overloads then dead.

Well they really need det to kill a sorc, and some sort of ranged cc. A few dots + the right timing on burst should be able to take a sorc out.

Magicka det is horrible as a single target ability, especially since a good sorc will know how to shield right before it explodes or if necessary block it. It works as a burst mechanic for some sorcs because they can time it with curse, fragments and streak/dawnbreaker etc. But against other sorcs as a mageblade slotting it would be a mistake.

Use fear + det + a meteor for burst to make it unblockable, or course make sure to actually dmg to sorc first and make sure dots are on. Spam concelaed and hope they die.

Meteor is a death sentence against a sorc running sword and board. Detect/immovable also makes you immune to fear. I'm not trying to theorycraft on you here, that's just what I do against every mageblade I see and haven't died to one yet (in the past few patches at least).

leepalmer95

Ezareth wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Magicka NBs are currently the easiest matchup with my current build.

Ball of Lightning + Defensive Stance with a 46K Magicka Hardened Ward.

Switch into overload and pop a detect/unstoppable pot just as your first CC break immunity wears off. Overload them down.

Mageblades can't dodge roll enough, I've only ever seen one running a sword and board build, and healing ward spam fails every time.

Without overload it's possible they could run me out of magicka in a long fight, over 1000 stamina regen, 19 points into tumbling and 1 medium armor means they'll never run me out of stamina.

@Ezareth Props on your ele vids once up on a time. They got me to roll my first shammy.

Regarding your post, this is one of the reasons I was toying with going Wood Elf on a magicka NB. Have you gone up against any--especially ones that drop invisbats with concealed blade stuns with stealthy buffed damage?

@Tal_72

Good times being an elemental shaman before they were actually a thing ( :

Wood elf mageblade sounds decent especially if you run sword and board but sadly no race fully fits a mage blade setup.

Bats is just a Terrie ult in general, especially against a Sorc because they have bolt escape and shields and it isn't a bursty ult.

Immovable detect pots completely negate that setup. I was fighting a good mageblade last night and I was trying to explain to him that without sword and board there was really nothing he could do to kill me. Only takes 3 overloads then dead.

Well they really need det to kill a sorc, and some sort of ranged cc. A few dots + the right timing on burst should be able to take a sorc out.

Magicka det is horrible as a single target ability, especially since a good sorc will know how to shield right before it explodes or if necessary block it. It works as a burst mechanic for some sorcs because they can time it with curse, fragments and streak/dawnbreaker etc. But against other sorcs as a mageblade slotting it would be a mistake.

Use fear + det + a meteor for burst to make it unblockable, or course make sure to actually dmg to sorc first and make sure dots are on. Spam concelaed and hope they die.

Meteor is a death sentence against a sorc running sword and board. Detect/immovable also makes you immune to fear. I'm not trying to theorycraft on you here, that's just what I do against every mageblade I see and haven't died to one yet (in the past few patches at least).

Yeah i know what you mean, i've seen magblade vs sorc fights go on for quite a long time. It's just one of those matchups