Bombard Snare in PVP

JoshenReborn

So I use bombard in PVP and to be honest the results vary so widely that I don't think the skill is functioning as intended. I've noticed that I can hit a group with bombard and at times it doesn't seem to snare anyone at all, they don't even slow down for a millisecond. Now if I happen to catch a character mid jump or during a bolt escape they get slowed by a godly amount while in the air. They fall slow which shouldn't even be a thing realistically. Don't even get me started if I'm slightly elevated those arrows become completely useless.

The bow overall could use a bit of love. My dream is that all weapons become just as viable as the next so we break up the one skill to rule them mentality.

OGLezard

You do realize there is a move, retreating maneuvers (maybe the original unmorphed too) that prevents one from.being immobolized. Nothing not working as intended

JoshenReborn

OGLezard wrote: »

You do realize there is a move, retreating maneuvers (maybe the original unmorphed too) that prevents one from.being immobolized. Nothing not working as intended

I don't think this is retreating maneuvers. Usually, during the fight it's business as usual with a couple wrecking blows or frags going off. I would say 90% of the time the snare has no visible effect. Unless everyone is coming into Cyrodil prepared for the OP skill which is bombard....come on.

OGLezard

Retreating maneuvers is a very common skill amongst people to use. Especially when in group play. Sooooooo yea.....people are coming into pvp prepared

revonine

Shuffle also removes snares when casted and makes you immune to them for a short time afterwards. Alot of stamina builds run that skill

Wollust

Well roots like bombard or talons can just be purged. If you use the skill on a group that has a constant purger, you will barely notice its effect as it will dissappear instantly.

Forestd16b14_ESO

When in doubt blame AOE caps.

Master_Kas

Both roots and snares are a huge concern for me in pvp since both lack immunity, and/or magicka morphs to get immunity for them. With the nerfs to roll etc its very annyoing imo.

But well, ZOS knows best

UltimaJoe777

If it helps your concerns I used Encase morph whose name I forget (Restraining something lol) on a DK in BWB and rooted them. They remained rooted for at least a few seconds, long enough to still them so my allies could catch them and lower the boom lol

OGLezard

Master_Kas wrote: »

Both roots and snares are a huge concern for me in pvp since both lack immunity, and/or magicka morphs to get immunity for them. With the nerfs to roll etc its very annyoing imo.

But well, ZOS knows best

but @Master_Kas that is the EXACT reason they dont have immunity (and they SHOULDNT) and why they did what they did to dodge roll. Permaderproll effectively made it so soft cc skills were no use at all. Now they are a threat. The way it should be. Still many ways to avoid snares and remove snares instantly.

Ara_Valleria

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

If it helps your concerns I used Encase morph whose name I forget (Restraining something lol) on a DK in BWB and rooted them. They remained rooted for at least a few seconds, long enough to still them so my allies could catch them and lower the boom lol

10/10 MLG strat.

Master_Kas

OGLezard wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Both roots and snares are a huge concern for me in pvp since both lack immunity, and/or magicka morphs to get immunity for them. With the nerfs to roll etc its very annyoing imo.

But well, ZOS knows best

but @Master_Kas that is the EXACT reason they dont have immunity (and they SHOULDNT) and why they did what they did to dodge roll. Permaderproll effectively made it so soft cc skills were no use at all. Now they are a threat. The way it should be. Still many ways to avoid snares and remove snares instantly.

Did you see really read what I wrote? I don't have issues with it on my STAMINA builds thanks to shuffle and retreating manouvers. I was speaking about the lack of a magicka-root immunity and that the rollnerf is to hard on MAGICKA builds. Which never was able to permaroll.

Read again, do it right this time

What can a magicka build do against roots? Spam purge? They reapply it again, forcing you to spam purge again and again and again (ie bombard spammers, encase spammers, whatever root there is) not even speaking about snares. You try to roll a few times you are OOS and dead. I really want retreating manouvers to have one morph magicka based.

Toc de Malsvi

JoshenReborn wrote: »

So I use bombard in PVP and to be honest the results vary so widely that I don't think the skill is functioning as intended. I've noticed that I can hit a group with bombard and at times it doesn't seem to snare anyone at all, they don't even slow down for a millisecond. Now if I happen to catch a character mid jump or during a bolt escape they get slowed by a godly amount while in the air. They fall slow which shouldn't even be a thing realistically. Don't even get me started if I'm slightly elevated those arrows become completely useless.

The bow overall could use a bit of love. My dream is that all weapons become just as viable as the next so we break up the one skill to rule them mentality.

Yes the bow overall could use some love, snipe spamming is the most functional aspect and just not a good quality of play if you ask me. The best bow builds I've seen that actually make use of more than just snipe have been with Sorc's. One of the issues with Bombard, as nice as it is for keeping adds grouped for AOE destruction in PVE, Bombard goes out in a frontal cone but it does not direct that cone based on your target reticle but rather based on the direction your character is facing. This leads to missing often with Bombard if you are strafing, rolling, turning or overall doing any of the normal movements you would in PVP. Bombard will also often miss if there is a slight difference in elevation or if there are any objects between you and your target. Also if you are targeting player A and player B walks in front of you from the side sometimes due to auto targeting, Bombard can then shoot at an angle to your side at player B and completely miss player A.

Toc de Malsvi

If Bombard simply actually fired based on the center of your target reticle and ignored auto targeting it would be a big quality of life improvement for bow builds I think. I don't use Bombard for PVP anymore, I've started to use Magnum Shot+Snipe+HA+SilverShards it works better from what I've tried. With the state of gap closer's I've found that players don't often really need to shed slows to stay on you, they can just jump to you and slow you forcing you to shed the slow or try and create another gap which is where Magnum shot comes in. I like in theory Draining shot a lot better but after one shot they go immune for 5s and I can't create another gap, with Magnum I will continue to get knocked back, it doesn't slow them but it will continue to create a gap for me.

Toc de Malsvi

It would be interesting I think they they made the knock back effect not cause immunity but apply that immunity only on the disorient. The gap you create with either shot is something like 5m not enough to keep someone from gap closing, CC, or slowing you. Note the knock back is not a knock down, and it disorient's the target but without a shield any dot breaks the disorient and you can still have the disorient effect on the CC immunity proc table.

OGLezard

Master_Kas wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Both roots and snares are a huge concern for me in pvp since both lack immunity, and/or magicka morphs to get immunity for them. With the nerfs to roll etc its very annyoing imo.

But well, ZOS knows best

but @Master_Kas that is the EXACT reason they dont have immunity (and they SHOULDNT) and why they did what they did to dodge roll. Permaderproll effectively made it so soft cc skills were no use at all. Now they are a threat. The way it should be. Still many ways to avoid snares and remove snares instantly.

Did you see really read what I wrote? I don't have issues with it on my STAMINA builds thanks to shuffle and retreating manouvers. I was speaking about the lack of a magicka-root immunity and that the rollnerf is to hard on MAGICKA builds. Which never was able to permaroll.

Read again, do it right this time

What can a magicka build do against roots? Spam purge? They reapply it again, forcing you to spam purge again and again and again (ie bombard spammers, encase spammers, whatever root there is) not even speaking about snares. You try to roll a few times you are OOS and dead. I really want retreating manouvers to have one morph magicka based.

@Master_Kas maybe explain yourself better? I read it perfectly lol and replied based on what I read soooooo yea. Magicka can use shuffle/retreating maneuvers and be fine. One cast and dont attack after just run. It is not meant to spam.

Lore_lai

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

If it helps your concerns I used Encase morph whose name I forget (Restraining something lol) on a DK in BWB and rooted them. They remained rooted for at least a few seconds, long enough to still them so my allies could catch them and lower the boom lol

No Negate *then* Encase + Talons + Bombard spam. 2/10

...

Master_Kas

OGLezard wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Both roots and snares are a huge concern for me in pvp since both lack immunity, and/or magicka morphs to get immunity for them. With the nerfs to roll etc its very annyoing imo.

But well, ZOS knows best

but @Master_Kas that is the EXACT reason they dont have immunity (and they SHOULDNT) and why they did what they did to dodge roll. Permaderproll effectively made it so soft cc skills were no use at all. Now they are a threat. The way it should be. Still many ways to avoid snares and remove snares instantly.

Did you see really read what I wrote? I don't have issues with it on my STAMINA builds thanks to shuffle and retreating manouvers. I was speaking about the lack of a magicka-root immunity and that the rollnerf is to hard on MAGICKA builds. Which never was able to permaroll.

Read again, do it right this time

What can a magicka build do against roots? Spam purge? They reapply it again, forcing you to spam purge again and again and again (ie bombard spammers, encase spammers, whatever root there is) not even speaking about snares. You try to roll a few times you are OOS and dead. I really want retreating manouvers to have one morph magicka based.

@Master_Kas maybe explain yourself better? I read it perfectly lol and replied based on what I read soooooo yea. Magicka can use shuffle/retreating maneuvers and be fine. One cast and dont attack after just run. It is not meant to spam.

I typed magicka morphs to get immunity.
And ofcourse you can, I can also run purge as a stamina build. Is it effective? No because you'll run out so fast, and don't even talk about manouvers which costs 7k+ stamina. You also need stamina to block and roll sometime aswell, on top of breaking free. But thats your opinion that it's fine. Doesnt mean you are right and I am wrong.

Imo there is something very wrong with the way roots and snares work and with there being no magicka immunity morph. Enjoy elder snares online next patch when all gapclosers gets a snare attached to them

JoshenReborn

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

It would be interesting I think they they made the knock back effect not cause immunity but apply that immunity only on the disorient. The gap you create with either shot is something like 5m not enough to keep someone from gap closing, CC, or slowing you. Note the knock back is not a knock down, and it disorient's the target but without a shield any dot breaks the disorient and you can still have the disorient effect on the CC immunity proc table.

Finally someone who understands! In order to even see the problems with the skill, and comment, you probably should be actually using the skill. I use magnum as my counter to wb if I time it right I take no damage and I get a couple cheap shots in while my opponent spams. Sadly if they wise up and crit rush or ambush that entire strat is useless. Knockback should be constant on every shot that's why I choose the skill. I see that there are many counters to snare but bombard has glaring flaws which you so eloquently listed. Thank you.

Francescolg

@TE
Bombard is a highly underrated skill which can work like a charm on a sustainable-build with very good stamina-regen.

Pls remember, that spells like Rapid Maneuver work just as long as the enemies don't do damage. And there are not many groups with s.o. cleansing/purging all the time, as well as Rapid-Maneuver-spam, which is also pretty rare, after they started the battle. So.., I mean, there are solutions to Bombard CC spam BUT not all groups practice them consequently but just before the battle starts, so immediately after they start, is the best moment to start "bombarding" them.

Bombard, imho, is one of the secret weapons against any organized raid, as you wonderfully can roll back, 2x bombard, roll/vanish and then again 2x bombard. If you know how to defend yourself, or if you have a small group with you, such "trains" are not difficult to control, as they often are self-proclaimed non-random but still low-skill players, who only know how to follow orders^^ - only some of them!
Bombard can do wonders, if you play in a small, high-skill team, as you can pick our your targets one by one, and you CC them a 100%, or you deplete their stamina, and afterwards you jump-in with much more serious CC+ae dmg to give the last stroke.

I'd even play a Bosmer NB with 4k stamina regen, 2x Bow, charge+bombard+shadow port. If you succeed you can become a nightmare. You won't do the decisive damage, but that is not the real task for a perfect CC-build! We just do the preparation and make enemies hate us. And, fortunately, there are not many organized teams with bombard-builds, most still rely on the DK talons..