Two improvments for the Thief system

Wing

and by that I mean stealing and what not. as right now its more or less a money grind system once you figure it out. bear in mind I have no idea what is coming with the thieves guild and perhaps there could be massive improvements to the system that will just make it epic (hey we can dream)

1- A robust and well designed Jail mechanic.
instead of just paying a fine or. . .death (that's extreme) we need a very cool jail system. that gives us more options such as actually serving your jail time via real time, attempting to escape from jail via breaking out of your cell and using the jail layout itself or perhaps some hidden tunnels as well to aid in our escape. this would involve patrolling guards and other obstacles. and the classic mechanic of our stolen goods are placed in a hard to reach container giving us the option (albeit a very hard one) to retrieve them before making our epic and stealthy escape. (though they will disappear upon our exit from the jail)

2- More hard to reach and difficult thieving locations with a good reward at the end.
things like the castles and heads of town houses in town, these need to be bigger and set up better to have more obstacles (doors, guards, shady paths, etc.) for us to get through. (any players remember sneaking through the bravil castle to get a ring back in Oblivion?) and have really good rewards at the end, and be set up for more "end game" thieves (bigger emphases on having a small detection radius, are fast at picking locks, etc.) so that thieves have something to strive for as they pickpocket very easy marks in town, while they look longingly at the castle thinking "just wait, someday!"

anyway, those are my two gold ^_^

RAGUNAnoOne

Agree 100% with 2 but feel a bit iffy about 1. It is easy to implement serving your sentence in a single player game but how would that work in an MMO will you be forced not to play for blank hours to serve your sentence?

ajwest927

1. Why would anyone spend their gaming time sitting in jail?
2. I like that idea

Wing

hmmmm, I guess I meant number 1 more as a series of options. we have to break down what the various punishments might be, and for the sake of this idea I am removing the guard prompt and interaction from the game and moving that all to be options within the jail.

first, you commit a crime, a guard catches you, and hauls you off to jail for processing, you are placed in a cell and your stolen goods placed in lockup, you are then given a series of options.

1 - escape jail, use lock picks to break out of your cell while a guard is not looking, navigate your way through the jail avoiding guards and making your way through other doors (I would classify this overall difficulty as medium) attempt to steal back your stolen goods from lockup (I would classify this as hard) and make your escape. you have no more bounty, and still have your goods, paid no money, and served no time.

2 - pay the money, and loose your stolen goods, as is now, you are free to go.

3 - serve your time (like the bounty cooldown mechanic we have now, only maybe slightly faster) you sit in jail for a few seconds / minutes depending on the crime, loose your stolen goods, and are then set free. the jail cell would be a public cell and you could interact with any other players also in jail.

while number 3 may or may not be fun, I think it would be nice to actually have a serve your time option, even if you never use it ^_^

I also thought It would be fun to implement some sort of jailbreak mechanic but don't quite now how I would go about it.

Gidorick

I think @TheShadowScout might have a good post he could copy-paste here regarding jails and such... at least I think he does.

Gilvoth

a Full Blown Prison would be much better then a jail

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/117602/prison-added-to-justice-system-good-day-sir#latest

DaveMoeDee

#2 sounds good. Hopefully when they release the Thieves Guild DLC, there will be thieving dailies.

#1 sounds bad. Plenty of societies have had brutal punishments for thieves. The death penalty goes away pretty quickly so long as you don't run from the authorities. No need for jail. Developers should not add a game option that leaves people stuck doing nothing. Really bad idea.

Being relocated to a prison is also quite lame. I don't want a loading screen. I don't want to end up in a different location. No need for all of that. Just allow players to quickly resolve the situation.

Ackwalan

I always thought the death penalty for refusing to pay the fine after stealing an apple, was harsh. Hopefully when dark brotherhood comes out, thing will get updated.

UltimaJoe777

ajwest927 wrote: »

1. Why would anyone spend their gaming time sitting in jail?

You'll have to talk to my Attorney for that one... His name is Sheogorath.

Sausage

If they are gonna add Enforcers like has been datamined, I think Thief's rewards are going up. Im looking forward to it myself.

ajwest927 wrote: »

1. Why would anyone spend their gaming time sitting in jail?

I dont like the sitting in jail idea either. But I think Guards should be able to capture Player, and walk him to a place, where other NCPs and Players can throw tomatoes at the Criminal. So basically Criminals punishment is walk of shame, what'd fit to ES-series imho.

TheShadowScout

I do keep rambling about more options for Justice... in a crime and punishment way... even if its nothing I have a definite post to copy/paste like I may have in other matters

First, the matter of justice. Or rather, punishment. Note that these would be entirely voluntary to choose this option - just a third line between "pay your fine" and "get killed by guard".

For small stuff, "doing time" in stocks to cool off. Somewhere around five to ten minutes sounds right for that sort on punishment. With the option of NPCs (and players) throwing rotten fruit atcha...

Possibly corporal punishment like a whipping that leaves a persistent debuff for a hour, to make you remember not to do crime anymore (or at least not to let yourself be caught).

But for bigger things, there could be some proper prison time.
Now, imprisonment as method of punishment are generally a more recent invention - historically they were just holding cells to keep prisoners between tortu... uhm, I mean, interrogation sessions, or until their trial and punishment.
Most punishments in medieval-ish times were either a matter of negotiation about restitution (paying the blood price, etc.) or quick and harsh stuff along the line of "whip them 'till they bleed... a lot..." or "brand them with the sign of the outlaw" or "chop off their nose/hand/whatever", or "stick a red hot poker up their... uhm..." anyways, stuff like that, with execution being a quick solution for many a crime problem. Long term prisoners were more the kind of nobles held for ransom, or maybe someone who might be useful later on, since generally few bothered to expend the effort of guarding and feeding prisoners for common criminals...
Of course, execution doesn't really take with vestiges like all our player characters, and neither do all the mutilations - thus imprisonment becomes more viable again.

In my opinion the best way to go about this would be a "prison Isle" public dungeon, where convicts are exiled to for the duration of "serving their sentence".

Where all gear and abilities are inaccessible, and replaced by crude prisoner rags (costume unlock upon release/escape!), leaving the people there only their bare fists to defend themselves, with everyone, player or NPC, being "non-hostile but attackable" yellow, and occasional brawls might ensure. Yes, that would mean possible fights between players. At least until the guards come to break it up, swinging heavy trunceons.

Where the bounty does not decay, but people get a chance to "work it off" by doing mindless repetetive tasks, like breaking rocks with a sledgehammer, or sewing jute sacks. For a looooong time, there ought to be some strong incentive for people to find a way to "leave early".

Where there are numerous small encounters, from classic prison clichees like sadistic guards looking for a target to test their new clubs on (a small bribe may send them looking elsewhere), or the mess hall bully trying to pick a fight (persuade may calm him to let you enjoy your prison gruel in peace), or a brawl in the main square (unarmed, punchings all around), or a shanking if you annoy the boss NPC (as in, choose the wrong conversation option when talking to that one, again, no hint until its too late) or the shower scene where a huge naked orc might ask you to pick up the soap (intimidate may keep your virtue intact! ) Generally all of those scenes should set the background that Tamriel dungeon isle is NOT a good place to be for any length of time. And that working off your bounty definitely will take way too long. Leaving... escape...

Which leads us to that, there should be a hidden "jailbreak" questline. No markers to lead you through it, just hints in the conversations you can overhear or have with NPC inmates. It might involve finding the ones planning an escape, convincing them to let you in on the breakout, and then finding all the things needed for it - again, no markers, each sub-quest has to be tracked down per legwork. Where to get the rope, who has a hidden lockpick they might part with, how to ensure the guard is properly distracted, whatever, it all has to be found and figured out - and there ought to be a random element to it, so you can't just read a walkthrough on the internet, but the ingredients for your breakout vary for every one.

The final breakout should also have a chance to fail, putting you right where you started, with a hefty chunk of extra bounty. And that chance should be influenced by how many subquests you found and completed - do all of the ones needed, and the success chance might be 100%, find/do less, and the chance to get caught grows...

And with barbershop coming there might be some neat achievements done in prison isle. That might unlock titles and "prison tatoo" options.
Naturally all actions taken in prison would count towards any "thieves guild" reputation... in face, there may be contacts you can -only- encounter on the prison isle, who might put in a good word for you on the mainland, unlocking special opportunities there once you get out... "Go see mah cousin vinnie in wayrest, he's gonna set yer up wif de best tools of de trade... ah'll see he's gonne x'spect yah..." that sort of thing.



Then... the matter of crime. I agree that it would be neat to have more then the occasional (and not so occasional) unattended lockbox to burglar.

One thing I would love to see is "themed lockboxes" - like one in the tailor/blacksmith/carpenter shop that will -always- contain some blue motiv page and crafting mats, with a much better chance of purples then random containers. Or one in the inn that -always- has a blue recipe and some rare cooking ingredients, with a chance for the really good purple stuff. Or one in the mages guild that will -always- have some uncommon runes and alchemy ingredients, with a chance of rare stuff. Or one in the castle that would have useful equipment... and I don't mean decon bait, but set items theives may want to lauinder and sell in the guild store.

Naturally I also would love to see more involved burglary targets then mere lockboxes. As has beem mentioned, mansions where you don't just sneak in and do your thing, but where you have to do some groundwork. Bonus points for multiple options. Like... how to get into the mansion... disguise as servant and ensure the rear window is unlocked for when you come back at midnight? Bribe or blackmail the guard to leave his post at the proper time? Do some jumping and running along the walls? What about the guard senche, can you avoid them, or do you put some moon sugar into their food? How might you get that special key to the unpickable lock on the treasury door?
We have such in some quests... but I'd want the same for random "burglary locations"...

Anyways, some of that may come with the thieves guild. I certainly hope so. But we'll see...