Constructive Thread! Please be CIVIL so the thread doesn't get closed!

Barlthump

Hello Fellow Forum Goers,

So yesterday i posted a thread on how toxic the community is and i truly apologize for it as i was rather ranting on a forum. So today lets all try give in our own inputs how to better the game instead of flaming at each other. Please also be mindful of the other users and not flame them for no reason, lets all work together to make the awesome game that is ESO better for us all. Okay so I will get the ball rolling.

1. Lets make PvE a lot more balanced for stamina classes who lack DPS to put up with their magicka counterparts, its insanely hard as a stam class to do dps as well as their magicka counterparts and it starts to affect their PvE.
2. To counteract the abovementioned point Lets instead put a certain number of nerfs that will hit only when a player ports into cyrodil. In other words, in PvE content there is no hammer hitting down on stamina classes and when they enter cyrodil they can be taken down a notch so that they will be on par with their magicka counterparts so that PvP truly becomes a game of skill rather then taking someone by surprise and one shotting them or just by stacking shields which cover 100% of the health

Volkodav

This is an absolutely fine idea.It allows for evening the playing field enough to let both Magicka builds and Stams to work well.

UltimaJoe777

Personally I think Stamina builds do fine. Their only true disadvantage is the lack of equal-footing Heals. Rally and Vigor... That's pretty much it excluding Siphoning skills (and I'm not talking about the Nightblade skill line lol)

Merry

I hate that stam and sprint share. And its not balanced that sprint/magicka dont share... M

Magdalina

Is there actually something really wrong with stamina besides lack of shields? The damage doesn't seem bad at all from what I've seen, and that DW aoe is the best in the game.

FriedEggSandwich

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personally I think Stamina builds do fine. Their only true disadvantage is the lack of equal-footing Heals. Rally and Vigor... That's pretty much it excluding Siphoning skills (and I'm not talking about the Nightblade skill line lol)

Rally and vigor scale with weapon damage. For stam users with high weapon damage (most) rally combined with vigor is better than anything in the resto staff skill line, with the exception of maybe healing ward. The only heals stam users are not on equal footing with are magicka templars', but this is to be expected.

Edit: you could argue that vigor being locked behind a pvp wall put stam users behind magicka users for heals, due to availability. Most challenging pve is group based anyway so stam users here should be relying on templars for their heals.

lolo_01b16_ESO

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personally I think Stamina builds do fine. Their only true disadvantage is the lack of equal-footing Heals. Rally and Vigor... That's pretty much it excluding Siphoning skills (and I'm not talking about the Nightblade skill line lol)

Rally and vigor scale with weapon damage. For stam users with high weapon damage (most) rally combined with vigor is better than anything in the resto staff skill line, with the exception of maybe healing ward. The only heals stam users are not on equal footing with are magicka templars', but this is to be expected.

Pls show me how you heal vicp or vwgt on a stamina build. Then we can talk again about stamina heals being better than restro staff for pve.

Dexter411

Magdalina wrote: »

Is there actually something really wrong with stamina besides lack of shields? The damage doesn't seem bad at all from what I've seen, and that DW aoe is the best in the game.

Problem with shields for stamina builds is scaling of them. Sorcs can build damage (maxing magicka nad spell damage) and by doing so their shield is getting larger,stronger. Templar shield, Dragonknight shield and the one from Unduanted scales from max HP. I am not trying to say scale it with stamina or something just pointing out. Imagine Stamina or Tank Templars running with 2 shields up, Vigor and Rally in both PvE and PvP.
You could say it is somehow balanced between magicka and stamina builds. Only problem i ever had with stamina build in PvE is stopping myself from running and starting fights with 50% stamina or less
I am gonna say this only once. No need for nerfs. Period. This game needs serious BALANCE changes.

FriedEggSandwich

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personally I think Stamina builds do fine. Their only true disadvantage is the lack of equal-footing Heals. Rally and Vigor... That's pretty much it excluding Siphoning skills (and I'm not talking about the Nightblade skill line lol)

Rally and vigor scale with weapon damage. For stam users with high weapon damage (most) rally combined with vigor is better than anything in the resto staff skill line, with the exception of maybe healing ward. The only heals stam users are not on equal footing with are magicka templars', but this is to be expected.

Pls show me how you heal vicp or vwgt on a stamina build. Then we can talk again about stamina heals being better than restro staff for pve.

Oh you want to see dedicated stam healers? Hadn't considered that, was just taking about self heals.

altemriel

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personally I think Stamina builds do fine. Their only true disadvantage is the lack of equal-footing Heals. Rally and Vigor... That's pretty much it excluding Siphoning skills (and I'm not talking about the Nightblade skill line lol)

Dragon Blood for Dk is good too

lolo_01b16_ESO

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personally I think Stamina builds do fine. Their only true disadvantage is the lack of equal-footing Heals. Rally and Vigor... That's pretty much it excluding Siphoning skills (and I'm not talking about the Nightblade skill line lol)

Rally and vigor scale with weapon damage. For stam users with high weapon damage (most) rally combined with vigor is better than anything in the resto staff skill line, with the exception of maybe healing ward. The only heals stam users are not on equal footing with are magicka templars', but this is to be expected.

Pls show me how you heal vicp or vwgt on a stamina build. Then we can talk again about stamina heals being better than restro staff for pve.

Oh you want to see dedicated stam healers? Hadn't considered that, was just taking about self heals.

I'm not sure If I want them, but you stated that vigor + rally is better than a restro staff, which is not true from my experience. Since this thread is about balancing magicka / stamina buids in pve I didn't consider self heals, as you don't need self heals outside of vmsa.

LorDrek

Need other source for block, roll-dodge, sprint
Scaling schield max stat
Boost figters guild, evil hunter restore only 840 stamina why? Scale to max stamina.

Magdalina

Dexter411 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Is there actually something really wrong with stamina besides lack of shields? The damage doesn't seem bad at all from what I've seen, and that DW aoe is the best in the game.

Problem with shields for stamina builds is scaling of them. Sorcs can build damage (maxing magicka nad spell damage) and by doing so their shield is getting larger,stronger. Templar shield, Dragonknight shield and the one from Unduanted scales from max HP. I am not trying to say scale it with stamina or something just pointing out. Imagine Stamina or Tank Templars running with 2 shields up, Vigor and Rally in both PvE and PvP.
You could say it is somehow balanced between magicka and stamina builds. Only problem i ever had with stamina build in PvE is stopping myself from running and starting fights with 50% stamina or less
I am gonna say this only once. No need for nerfs. Period. This game needs serious BALANCE changes.

Well on the positive side, stamina can dodge more than 2 times in a row and still block after that(which yes, will consume stamina, but so do sorc shields consume magicka.

FriedEggSandwich

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personally I think Stamina builds do fine. Their only true disadvantage is the lack of equal-footing Heals. Rally and Vigor... That's pretty much it excluding Siphoning skills (and I'm not talking about the Nightblade skill line lol)

Rally and vigor scale with weapon damage. For stam users with high weapon damage (most) rally combined with vigor is better than anything in the resto staff skill line, with the exception of maybe healing ward. The only heals stam users are not on equal footing with are magicka templars', but this is to be expected.

Pls show me how you heal vicp or vwgt on a stamina build. Then we can talk again about stamina heals being better than restro staff for pve.

Oh you want to see dedicated stam healers? Hadn't considered that, was just taking about self heals.

I'm not sure If I want them, but you stated that vigor + rally is better than a restro staff, which is not true from my experience. Since this thread is about balancing magicka / stamina buids in pve I didn't consider self heals, as you don't need self heals outside of vmsa.

Well I assumed the post I responded to was talking about self heals, cos who ever heard of a stam healer?

Flameheart

The dps from stamina DDs is still competitive in PvE, the issues are others:

-to turn the big wheel (aka Steel Tornado) you might need stamina support. The only class who is able to deliver that right now is a templar. I have suggested several times to maybe change the Blood Altar in the Undaunted line to a stamina support skill (so somebody who actually uses this skill in PvE does not have automatically the stigmata of a noob...). In addition stamina DDs share their main ressource with dodge rolling, sprinting and blocking to evade damage.

Magicka support is almost inflationary in this game (Siphon Soul, Drain Essence, Bubbles)

-A stamina DD who will most likely fight in melee range takes more risks and has less self defence possibilities as a magicka user (Harness Magicka, my guess is about 90% of inc damage in this game is magical damage). He will need most likely more heal and/or has a bigger chance of being one- or twoshotted by certain boss abilities. Many boss encounters in this game are melee unfriendly. Using a bow might help, but dps output of a bow - without running a specialized archer build - might be still competitive, but ok, why not get a magicka DD then, who does even more damage in ranged combat by default ?

-> The healer needs to waste more time for heals, takes therefore more risks to change skill bars for support skills and adds less damage

-> for the bigger risk fighting mostly in melee range and less possibilities for self defence, you might think you will be rewarded with a better dps output in compare to ranged magicka classes. This is not the case in current state of play imho.

I play healers and all I can say is, that groups with well played stamina DDs do not clear trash or bosses faster as well played magicka DDs, but I find stamina DDs much more support dependant, harder to heal and in general it's tougher to work down my to do list to the point of "doing damage myself".

To bring it to boil, if you want to beat content safe and fast, the best method out there is to come along with two magicka DDs, at best nightblades and/or sorcs (sorry my dear DKs, but you are fighting mostly in melee range...).

The overall best set up would be a NB tank, 2 magicka NB DDs and either a templar or a NB healer. The NB tank is almost self sufficient (ok, he has no chains), two NB magicka DDs fight from range and do pretty good dps AND heal the whole group while doing dps, the healer will mostly act like a third DD adding some heal and support here and there.

I did WGT and prison pre-and postnerf as a healer (WGT hardmode + speedrun prenerf, no deathrun postnerf, we never tried the second boss in prison prenerf on a serious level though, postnerf we just nuke him and a few atronachs down by using Warhorn + Ice Comet combos). The difference between having magicka/ranged DDs and stamina/melee DDs there is not just noticable, it's remarkable if not a different world.