STA Sorc one of the classes ZOS is reviewing skills for?

Khaos_Bane

I enjoy the STA sorc I have right now, but there are so few Sorc skills that work with STA. I know ZOS is reviewing some of the classes and skills. Is STA sorc one of them? Does ZoS ever intend on giving some attention to STA sorc?

Khaos_Bane

Can anyone comment on their high level STA sorc and how they compete on DPS etc...please

Xantaria

Stamina Sorcerer is currently not viable in PvE leaderboard endgame.

Khaos_Bane

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

Uriel_Nocturne

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

Artjuh90

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

Khaos_Bane

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

I don't buy the "it's a sorcerer so it should be magicka", that's not what the goal of this game was/is. People say the same thing about nightblade. "Well it a rogue so it should be stamina DW and bow" which isn't the case, many people run magicka nightblades. Same this was said about the DK as well, they are meant to be tanks, which isn't true at all. DKs have very solid magicka builds. Nearly all class skills and maybe all of the were magicka based when this game first released. ZoS kind of implemented a bad system initially and they have been changing skills.

ZoS has stated that they are going to be looking at the class skills of some classes and was wondering if the STA sorc is one of them. All classes should have strong viable builds for Magicka and STA.

Uriel_Nocturne

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Khaos_Bane

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Who is saying anyone wants to toggle anything? Are you making this up? My point is that each class has very solid Magicka and STA builds in their class trees. It doesn't seem as if the STA sorc was really looked at in that fashion at all. Maybe you are right and ZoS is going to follow your standard MMO thought pattern. Templars Heal, Sorcs cast spells, Rogues stab, DKs tank. However, I don't think they meant to have your rigid class definition. They have Stam sorcs NPS in the game, a battle mage. I'm not sure I even buy what your saying about they don't exist in lore either.

I have a v16 Magicka Sorc, and am having fun on my sta sorc right now as well. But I doubt I will continue playing it if they don't plan to give it any tweaks to make it more defined.

Alucardo

Kinda feels like Sorcerer was originally a magicka based class with a few stam passives tacked on at the last minute. They really need some work.

Uriel_Nocturne

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Who is saying anyone wants to toggle anything? Are you making this up? My point is that each class has very solid Magicka and STA builds in their class trees. It doesn't seem as if the STA sorc was really looked at in that fashion at all. Maybe you are right and ZoS is going to follow your standard MMO thought pattern. Templars Heal, Sorcs cast spells, Rogues stab, DKs tank. However, I don't think they meant to have your rigid class definition. They have Stam sorcs NPS in the game, a battle mage. I'm not sure I even buy what your saying about they don't exist in lore either.

I have a v16 Magicka Sorc, and am having fun on my sta sorc right now as well. But I doubt I will continue playing it if they don't plan to give it any tweaks to make it more defined.

No, I'm not making anything up. I clearly stated that this is all in my opinion, but Sorcerer's are Magicka based.

Also IMO, they don't need to have anything Stamina based as that goes against everything related to a Sorcerer/Mage/Wizard/Warlock/Witch/whole slews of D&D character classes/etc. in every game ever.

You can create a Stamina Sorcerer, the trade off is that it's not as effective as a Magicka Sorcerer. And IMO, that's the way it should be.

Sorcerers (and the litany of magick-based classes I've listed a couple of times now) wield the awesome power and potential of Magick. Warrior archetypes utilize Stamina.

It is what it is, and it doesn't need to change just because people want to "go against the grain" of the class.

Cathexis

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Who is saying anyone wants to toggle anything? Are you making this up? My point is that each class has very solid Magicka and STA builds in their class trees. It doesn't seem as if the STA sorc was really looked at in that fashion at all. Maybe you are right and ZoS is going to follow your standard MMO thought pattern. Templars Heal, Sorcs cast spells, Rogues stab, DKs tank. However, I don't think they meant to have your rigid class definition. They have Stam sorcs NPS in the game, a battle mage. I'm not sure I even buy what your saying about they don't exist in lore either.

I have a v16 Magicka Sorc, and am having fun on my sta sorc right now as well. But I doubt I will continue playing it if they don't plan to give it any tweaks to make it more defined.

No, I'm not making anything up. I clearly stated that this is all in my opinion, but Sorcerer's are Magicka based.

Also IMO, they don't need to have anything Stamina based as that goes against everything related to a Sorcerer/Mage/Wizard/Warlock/Witch/whole slews of D&D character classes/etc. in every game ever.

You can create a Stamina Sorcerer, the trade off is that it's not as effective as a Magicka Sorcerer. And IMO, that's the way it should be.

Sorcerers (and the litany of magick-based classes I've listed a couple of times now) wield the awesome power and potential of Magick. Warrior archetypes utilize Stamina.

It is what it is, and it doesn't need to change just because people want to "go against the grain" of the class.

>< have you ever played elder scrolls?????? The whole premise is that class roles and designs are not rigid and fixed. There is not supposed to be a "grain" of the class. Going against the grain is certainly not why I play a stam sorcerer. I like being an orc, I like being a tank, there is no reason why I should not be allowed to be both as a sorcerer and be successful.

Khaos_Bane

Cathexis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Who is saying anyone wants to toggle anything? Are you making this up? My point is that each class has very solid Magicka and STA builds in their class trees. It doesn't seem as if the STA sorc was really looked at in that fashion at all. Maybe you are right and ZoS is going to follow your standard MMO thought pattern. Templars Heal, Sorcs cast spells, Rogues stab, DKs tank. However, I don't think they meant to have your rigid class definition. They have Stam sorcs NPS in the game, a battle mage. I'm not sure I even buy what your saying about they don't exist in lore either.

I have a v16 Magicka Sorc, and am having fun on my sta sorc right now as well. But I doubt I will continue playing it if they don't plan to give it any tweaks to make it more defined.

No, I'm not making anything up. I clearly stated that this is all in my opinion, but Sorcerer's are Magicka based.

Also IMO, they don't need to have anything Stamina based as that goes against everything related to a Sorcerer/Mage/Wizard/Warlock/Witch/whole slews of D&D character classes/etc. in every game ever.

You can create a Stamina Sorcerer, the trade off is that it's not as effective as a Magicka Sorcerer. And IMO, that's the way it should be.

Sorcerers (and the litany of magick-based classes I've listed a couple of times now) wield the awesome power and potential of Magick. Warrior archetypes utilize Stamina.

It is what it is, and it doesn't need to change just because people want to "go against the grain" of the class.

>< have you ever played elder scrolls?????? The whole premise is that class roles and designs are not rigid and fixed. There is not supposed to be a "grain" of the class. Going against the grain is certainly not why I play a stam sorcerer. I like being an orc, I like being a tank, there is no reason why I should not be allowed to be both as a sorcerer and be successful.

This is what I was wondering about him, he brings up lore yet it certainly has nothing to do with the elderscroll series. Sounds like he is used to the healer, rogue, wizard, tank roles of traditional trinity MMOs. That is NOT elder scrolls, and it's pretty obvious by the way the other classes have been built. The STA sorc needs some attention IMO.

Uriel_Nocturne

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Who is saying anyone wants to toggle anything? Are you making this up? My point is that each class has very solid Magicka and STA builds in their class trees. It doesn't seem as if the STA sorc was really looked at in that fashion at all. Maybe you are right and ZoS is going to follow your standard MMO thought pattern. Templars Heal, Sorcs cast spells, Rogues stab, DKs tank. However, I don't think they meant to have your rigid class definition. They have Stam sorcs NPS in the game, a battle mage. I'm not sure I even buy what your saying about they don't exist in lore either.

I have a v16 Magicka Sorc, and am having fun on my sta sorc right now as well. But I doubt I will continue playing it if they don't plan to give it any tweaks to make it more defined.

No, I'm not making anything up. I clearly stated that this is all in my opinion, but Sorcerer's are Magicka based.

Also IMO, they don't need to have anything Stamina based as that goes against everything related to a Sorcerer/Mage/Wizard/Warlock/Witch/whole slews of D&D character classes/etc. in every game ever.

You can create a Stamina Sorcerer, the trade off is that it's not as effective as a Magicka Sorcerer. And IMO, that's the way it should be.

Sorcerers (and the litany of magick-based classes I've listed a couple of times now) wield the awesome power and potential of Magick. Warrior archetypes utilize Stamina.

It is what it is, and it doesn't need to change just because people want to "go against the grain" of the class.

>< have you ever played elder scrolls?????? The whole premise is that class roles and designs are not rigid and fixed. There is not supposed to be a "grain" of the class. Going against the grain is certainly not why I play a stam sorcerer. I like being an orc, I like being a tank, there is no reason why I should not be allowed to be both as a sorcerer and be successful.

This is what I was wondering about him, he brings up lore yet it certainly has nothing to do with the elderscroll series. Sounds like he is used to the healer, rogue, wizard, tank roles of traditional trinity MMOs. That is NOT elder scrolls, and it's pretty obvious by the way the other classes have been built. The STA sorc needs some attention IMO.

Actually, if you look up The Elder Scrolls history and how it was created/imagined, it was founded off of a bunch of D&D geeks (like myself) who created their own world.

So yes, TES was very much created in the vein of "healer, rogue, wizard, tank/warrior" roles that are the tried-and-true staples of... pretty much every high-fantasy game ever created.

The Elder Scrolls owes its very existence to Gary Gygax, and ESO is no different.

Edit = Going along with that thought; the very archetypes of those classes is well founded, even from the very beginning of The Elder Scrolls. Sorcerer's use Magicka. Tanks/Warriors use Stamina. Rogues use a bit of both. Etc.

So no, I don't think the Sorcerers need a rewrite/"balance" to give an optional Stamina option. Can you play as a Stamina Sorcerer? Sure. Should that Stamina Sorcerer ever be as-effective as a Magicka Sorcerer? Not at all. That's the trade off.

Uriel_Nocturne

Cathexis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Who is saying anyone wants to toggle anything? Are you making this up? My point is that each class has very solid Magicka and STA builds in their class trees. It doesn't seem as if the STA sorc was really looked at in that fashion at all. Maybe you are right and ZoS is going to follow your standard MMO thought pattern. Templars Heal, Sorcs cast spells, Rogues stab, DKs tank. However, I don't think they meant to have your rigid class definition. They have Stam sorcs NPS in the game, a battle mage. I'm not sure I even buy what your saying about they don't exist in lore either.

I have a v16 Magicka Sorc, and am having fun on my sta sorc right now as well. But I doubt I will continue playing it if they don't plan to give it any tweaks to make it more defined.

No, I'm not making anything up. I clearly stated that this is all in my opinion, but Sorcerer's are Magicka based.

Also IMO, they don't need to have anything Stamina based as that goes against everything related to a Sorcerer/Mage/Wizard/Warlock/Witch/whole slews of D&D character classes/etc. in every game ever.

You can create a Stamina Sorcerer, the trade off is that it's not as effective as a Magicka Sorcerer. And IMO, that's the way it should be.

Sorcerers (and the litany of magick-based classes I've listed a couple of times now) wield the awesome power and potential of Magick. Warrior archetypes utilize Stamina.

It is what it is, and it doesn't need to change just because people want to "go against the grain" of the class.

>< have you ever played elder scrolls?????? The whole premise is that class roles and designs are not rigid and fixed. There is not supposed to be a "grain" of the class. Going against the grain is certainly not why I play a stam sorcerer. I like being an orc, I like being a tank, there is no reason why I should not be allowed to be both as a sorcerer and be successful.

I've played every Elder Scrolls since Daggerfall.

Even with the "play how you want, live another life in another world, go where you want & do what you want" mentality that I love so much about this series; there's still very defined archetypes. Those archetypes are the base of every class ever created in every high-fantasy game ever written/coded, and The Elder Scrolls is no different.

Holycannoli

STA sorc = Wrecking Blow sorc with Critical Rush and maybe Bound Armaments.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Actually, if you look up The Elder Scrolls history and how it was created/imagined, it was founded off of a bunch of D&D geeks (like myself) who created their own world.

So yes, TES was very much created in the vein of "healer, rogue, wizard, tank/warrior" roles that are the tried-and-true staples of... pretty much every high-fantasy game ever created.

The Elder Scrolls owes its very existence to Gary Gygax, and ESO is no different.

Edit = Going along with that thought; the very archetypes of those classes is well founded, even from the very beginning of The Elder Scrolls. Sorcerer's use Magicka. Tanks/Warriors use Stamina. Rogues use a bit of both. Etc.

So no, I don't think the Sorcerers need a rewrite/"balance" to give an optional Stamina option. Can you play as a Stamina Sorcerer? Sure. Should that Stamina Sorcerer ever be as-effective as a Magicka Sorcerer? Not at all. That's the trade off.

Elder Scrolls games have never featured those archetypes. They have featured some "classes" in the form of prerolled stats with a familiar name (sorcerer, acrobat, barbarian etc.) but the defining feature of Elder Scrolls games was that you could be anything with no limits. In Elder Scrolls games your character is a healer, rogue, wizard, tank/warrior all at once.

I personally loved being a heavy armor-wearing necromancer/atronach summoner that used a bow and lightning magic. Tell me what "class" that is.

Sorcerers in ESO are mostly magicka-based yes, but they're also mostly lightning-based with some "dark" magic thrown in (whatever that is), and their summons are extremely limited. Want to summon a flame atronach? Guess what? You can't. Want to summon a frost atronach? You can't. Your storm atronach can't even move and only lasts half a minute. How about a skeleton or a ghost (from Morrowind)? You can't. You want to use fire or frost magic? You need destruction staff skills for that.

Their stamina skills are even more limited. You have Critical Surge and Bound Armaments and that's pretty much it. Thundering Presence is technically a stamina skill but Boundless Storm is actually better to use.

Stam sorcs = Wrecking Blow sorcs that use Critical Surge and Bound Armaments. Some might use DW or Bow but because they have no damaging stamina skills most use Two-Handed. I know I do.

And I find it weird that people are talking about how strong sorcerers are. A year ago, when I still played this regularly (I took months off and only came back in November) it was all about how OP Dragonknights were and how sorcerers needed a buff. My oh my how times have changed huh?

Emma_Overload

So when Surprise Attack and Biting Jabs became stamina morphs, did all these magicka-based Nightblades and Templars come out of the woodwork to *** and moan about it? I doubt it.

My main is a magicka Sorc, and I don't see why we can't have a few stamina morphs to help balance our class against the others. For example, nobody uses Empowered Ward, so why not make it stamina? It would be a huge help for stam Sorcs who don't have a shield or a reliable heal. Daedric Prey is another one that needs a new purpose... they should make it a stamina instant damage spell and call it "Instant Karma".

I'm sick and tired of hearing people claim stamina Sorcs have no right to exist when it wouldn't cost the class ANYTHING to make stamina more viable.

Alcast

Xantaria wrote: »

Stamina Sorcerer is currently not viable in PvE leaderboard endgame.

Nor is Templar and NB. RIP

Nestor

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

I have never understood the idea that since a Sorcerer can do more Jumping Jacks, then they can spit out more powerful spells.

Nestor

Artjuh90 wrote: »

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

They never said that you can be successful at all facets of the game with any build you want. PVE Leveling and Caldwells Silver and Gold, pretty much any build/race/gear combo will prevail, eventually. Trials and 1v1 PvP and Vet Dungeons, you need a more focused build.

AfkNinja

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Who is saying anyone wants to toggle anything? Are you making this up? My point is that each class has very solid Magicka and STA builds in their class trees. It doesn't seem as if the STA sorc was really looked at in that fashion at all. Maybe you are right and ZoS is going to follow your standard MMO thought pattern. Templars Heal, Sorcs cast spells, Rogues stab, DKs tank. However, I don't think they meant to have your rigid class definition. They have Stam sorcs NPS in the game, a battle mage. I'm not sure I even buy what your saying about they don't exist in lore either.

I have a v16 Magicka Sorc, and am having fun on my sta sorc right now as well. But I doubt I will continue playing it if they don't plan to give it any tweaks to make it more defined.

No, I'm not making anything up. I clearly stated that this is all in my opinion, but Sorcerer's are Magicka based.

Also IMO, they don't need to have anything Stamina based as that goes against everything related to a Sorcerer/Mage/Wizard/Warlock/Witch/whole slews of D&D character classes/etc. in every game ever.

You can create a Stamina Sorcerer, the trade off is that it's not as effective as a Magicka Sorcerer. And IMO, that's the way it should be.

Sorcerers (and the litany of magick-based classes I've listed a couple of times now) wield the awesome power and potential of Magick. Warrior archetypes utilize Stamina.

It is what it is, and it doesn't need to change just because people want to "go against the grain" of the class.

>< have you ever played elder scrolls?????? The whole premise is that class roles and designs are not rigid and fixed. There is not supposed to be a "grain" of the class. Going against the grain is certainly not why I play a stam sorcerer. I like being an orc, I like being a tank, there is no reason why I should not be allowed to be both as a sorcerer and be successful.

I've played every Elder Scrolls since Daggerfall.

Even with the "play how you want, live another life in another world, go where you want & do what you want" mentality that I love so much about this series; there's still very defined archetypes. Those archetypes are the base of every class ever created in every high-fantasy game ever written/coded, and The Elder Scrolls is no different.

For someone who claims to know the lore you are not as informed as you think.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb spell points from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more spell points than any other mage class.

Sorcerers are adept at the use of a wide variety of weapons and armor, but typically do not utilize shields, preferring to keep their hands free for defensive spellcasting instead, their specialty. "

Class roles have never been locked in stone for ANY elderscrolls game. The Sorcerer Archtype has always been kind of a hybrid Spellcaster/Warrior, lore supports this. What's the issue?

Stamina Sorcerer needs some changes. Stamina Templar needs some changes. Magicka DK needs some changes. I'm happy there will be a class balance review in Q1 of 2016.

Unsent.Soul

You can play however you want, doesn't mean that build or playstyle will compete with any or all aspects of end game. Stamina sorcs are great in pvp but suck in pve, for right now I'd say live with it. Once lag in cyrodil is under control then I'd say nit pick each build and variation.

Nestor

AfkNinja wrote: »

For someone who claims to know the lore you are not as informed as you think.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb spell points from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more spell points than any other mage class.

Sorcerers are adept at the use of a wide variety of weapons and armor, but typically do not utilize shields, preferring to keep their hands free for defensive spellcasting instead, their specialty. "

That's a quote from the Wiki on Oblivion Sorcerers. Does not apply to all games, and really does not spell out how a Sorcerer is based on a Stamina Build.

Daggerfall:

Sorcerors are much like mages, but with an important difference. They do not regenerate magicka naturally within their bodies, but absorb it from the spells of others. Their total magicka "pool" is much greater than the mage's - indeed they have the greatest magical potential of any of the standard character classes. LIke their brother mages, sorcerors must have high intelligence and high willpower.[1]

Morrowind

"Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos."


And for ESO

Sorcerers summon and control weather phenomenon: hurling lightning bolts and creating electrified fields, summoning tornadoes and impenetrable fog, and calling upon Daedric forces to summon Storm Atronachs and magical armor.


Other than the reference to Stamina to wear the Heaviest Armors for another game, which really refers to Bound Daedric Armor, Daedric being the heaviest in the previous games, Sorcerers have never been Stamina Based in this series. The only reason Sorcerers used Bound Armor is that it has no weight, but it is temporary in nature. And it could only be called through a Magic Spell.

AfkNinja

Nestor wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

For someone who claims to know the lore you are not as informed as you think.

"Besting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb spell points from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more spell points than any other mage class.

Sorcerers are adept at the use of a wide variety of weapons and armor, but typically do not utilize shields, preferring to keep their hands free for defensive spellcasting instead, their specialty. "

That's a quote from the Wiki on Oblivion Sorcerers. Does not apply to all games, and really does not spell out how a Sorcerer is based on a Stamina Build.

Daggerfall:

Sorcerors are much like mages, but with an important difference. They do not regenerate magicka naturally within their bodies, but absorb it from the spells of others. Their total magicka "pool" is much greater than the mage's - indeed they have the greatest magical potential of any of the standard character classes. LIke their brother mages, sorcerors must have high intelligence and high willpower.[1]

Morrowind

"Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos."


And for ESO

Sorcerers summon and control weather phenomenon: hurling lightning bolts and creating electrified fields, summoning tornadoes and impenetrable fog, and calling upon Daedric forces to summon Storm Atronachs and magical armor.


Other than the reference to Stamina to wear the Heaviest Armors for another game, which really refers to Bound Daedric Armor, Daedric being the heaviest in the previous games, Sorcerers have never been Stamina Based in this series. The only reason Sorcerers used Bound Armor is that it has no weight, but it is temporary in nature. And it could only be called through a Magic Spell.

Where did I say they were stamina based? I merely quoted the LORE from OBLIVION which supports a melee oriented Sorcerer in ESO. Bethesda decides the lore and they decided Sorcerers wear heavy armor, use weapons and cast spells.

The reason I quoted Oblivion and not Daggerfall or Morrowind is Oblivion is newest and should represent the devs most recent lore on the subject. (No classes were included in Skyrim, PLAY AS YOU WANT). I've never understood the animosity towards people wanting to play a stamina sorcerer, whats the issue? The lore supports it.

Nestor

AfkNinja wrote: »

Where did I say they were stamina based? I merely quoted the LORE from OBLIVION which supports a melee oriented Sorcerer in ESO. Bethesda decides the lore and they decided Sorcerers wear heavy armor, use weapons and cast spells.

The reason I quoted Oblivion and not Daggerfall or Morrowind is Oblivion is newest and should represent the devs most recent lore on the subject. (No classes were included in Skyrim, PLAY AS YOU WANT). I've never understood the animosity towards people wanting to play a stamina sorcerer, whats the issue? The lore supports it.

Your the one who Bolded Stamina in your quote.

For the record, I had Magic Based DK in Heavy Armor for Tanking, and, he used One Handed and Shield.no reason I could not have done the same as a Sorcerer. Nothing is stopping you from playing a Stamina Sorcerer in this game. So, you can PLAY AS YOU WANT.

Artjuh90

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yeah I had a feeling that was the case. Are they low DPS endgame ? I'm just curious what state they are in and if they are one of the classes ZoS plans to address.

It does seem like they don't have a lot of STA abilities available in their class trees

That's because (by the very nature of the class) Sorcerer's are purely Magicika-based.

You get "Stamina Sorcerer's" by all-but ignoring their class skill trees, focusing on the Dual Wielding/Two-handed skill trees, and pumping pretty much every ability point into Stamina.

While Stamina Sorcerer's might be great one-hit-kill factories in PvP, just by the sheer design of the class (understandably) they don't have much staying power in PvE DPS situations.

I don't want it to come off like I despise Stamina Sorcerer's ( I really don't care one way or the other), but it's a Sorcerer. It's supposed to be Magicka-based, and that's how Zeni designed... pretty much everything in the class. If you want an end-all-be-all DPS Sorcerer, go with a Magicka build. If you want a glass cannon PvP monster, stick with Stamina Sorcerer and Wrecking Blow/Steel Tornado.

Just my opinion.

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

And there's nothing preventing anyone from running a Stamina Sorcerer.

But they also never marketed that it would be as-easy-as or as-effective-as playing a Magicka Sorcerer.



Sorcerer doesn't need a rebuild so that class Skills can be toggled to use Stamina or Magicka. Sorcerers/Warlocks/Witches/Infernalists/etc., etc. in most every bit of lore/fiction are all Magicka/Magic-based classes. they don't run off of the physical stamina of the character.

Why should they in ESO? Hell, they don't even do that in any of the single-player Elder Scrolls titles, and those also market "play how you want".

I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it".

Who is saying anyone wants to toggle anything? Are you making this up? My point is that each class has very solid Magicka and STA builds in their class trees. It doesn't seem as if the STA sorc was really looked at in that fashion at all. Maybe you are right and ZoS is going to follow your standard MMO thought pattern. Templars Heal, Sorcs cast spells, Rogues stab, DKs tank. However, I don't think they meant to have your rigid class definition. They have Stam sorcs NPS in the game, a battle mage. I'm not sure I even buy what your saying about they don't exist in lore either.

I have a v16 Magicka Sorc, and am having fun on my sta sorc right now as well. But I doubt I will continue playing it if they don't plan to give it any tweaks to make it more defined.

No, I'm not making anything up. I clearly stated that this is all in my opinion, but Sorcerer's are Magicka based.

Also IMO, they don't need to have anything Stamina based as that goes against everything related to a Sorcerer/Mage/Wizard/Warlock/Witch/whole slews of D&D character classes/etc. in every game ever.

You can create a Stamina Sorcerer, the trade off is that it's not as effective as a Magicka Sorcerer. And IMO, that's the way it should be.

Sorcerers (and the litany of magick-based classes I've listed a couple of times now) wield the awesome power and potential of Magick. Warrior archetypes utilize Stamina.

It is what it is, and it doesn't need to change just because people want to "go against the grain" of the class.

howmany stamina sorc in game have you beat. i am pretty sure it's over 100. you have mobs and bosses that are clearly stamina sorc. they have abilty's that can't be used by stamina sorc atm (i mean those strikers and all other lightning bases melee fighters. so why can't a stam sorc do those while me as a dk can do all abilty's the mobs that are based on dk can do (talons, fire breath and whip)

AfkNinja

@Nestor

I bolded stamina because it was part of the quote and relevant. My original post wasn't even for you, it was for the people saying things like "I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it"." or "Stamina Sorcerer doesn't make sense" etc.

I was merely pointing out that magic and physical combat don't have to be mutually exclusive as Bethesda in the past has shown they have a fondness for classes like that. I wish hybrids worked better in ESO though.

Artjuh90

AfkNinja wrote: »

@Nestor

I bolded stamina because it was part of the quote and relevant. My original post wasn't even for you, it was for the people saying things like "I just don't see the point of Stamina Sorcerers other than the mentality of "see, I can do it"." or "Stamina Sorcerer doesn't make sense" etc.

I was merely pointing out that magic and physical combat don't have to be mutually exclusive as Bethesda in the past has shown they have a fondness for classes like that. I wish hybrids worked better in ESO though.

they used to be.... in the good old days of softcaps.....

Holycannoli

I don't see why ZOS can't make more than two morphs to choose from for our class skills. Every class skill can potentially have multiple magicka and stamina morphs to choose from. When it comes to what seem like purely magicka skills like Mage's Fury or Lightning Splash morphs can be added to maybe change Mage's Fury to a physical Bound Weapon that also deals shock damage (we already have Bound Armor right?), or Lightning Splash to an earthquake-like physical PBAOE attack. Those two examples are literally off the top of my head right now.

There are a lot of possibilities. ZOS doesn't necessarily need to change much, they just have to add morph choices. Keep exactly what they have now but give all classes more morph choices - stamina choices when the skill uses magicka and magicka choices when the skill uses stamina - and we can get closer to balance...maybe.

My stamina sorcerer used to be a hybrid imperial sorcerer. I loved him. Hybrids worked when there was a soft cap. After the softcap removal I decided to turn him into a stamina sorc instead of shelving him. He still works well but he's really a stamina two-hander, not a stamina sorcerer.

Khaos_Bane

Nestor wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Where did I say they were stamina based? I merely quoted the LORE from OBLIVION which supports a melee oriented Sorcerer in ESO. Bethesda decides the lore and they decided Sorcerers wear heavy armor, use weapons and cast spells.

The reason I quoted Oblivion and not Daggerfall or Morrowind is Oblivion is newest and should represent the devs most recent lore on the subject. (No classes were included in Skyrim, PLAY AS YOU WANT). I've never understood the animosity towards people wanting to play a stamina sorcerer, whats the issue? The lore supports it.

Your the one who Bolded Stamina in your quote.

For the record, I had Magic Based DK in Heavy Armor for Tanking, and, he used One Handed and Shield.no reason I could not have done the same as a Sorcerer. Nothing is stopping you from playing a Stamina Sorcerer in this game. So, you can PLAY AS YOU WANT.

No this is about having effective builds endgame. It's pretty lame excuse to just say "you can do whatever you want, nothing is stopping you." When you know exactly what is meant in the thread. It's having an effective STA build, just like the other classes in this game. ZoS has ALREADY MADE STA based sorc skills, they simply didn't make enough of them to have a well tuned STA sorc.

Khaos_Bane

Nestor wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

well they did market play as you want. so that's why stam sorc might be good to review and work out some way to make class skills beter for it

They never said that you can be successful at all facets of the game with any build you want. PVE Leveling and Caldwells Silver and Gold, pretty much any build/race/gear combo will prevail, eventually. Trials and 1v1 PvP and Vet Dungeons, you need a more focused build.

You cannot have a "focused" STA sorc build the way the class is right now, that's the point. The class skills need more tuning to be in line with the other classes for the STA build. That's the problem that has been raised.