@ESO why do you hate Magicka DK's

Baphometrising

Just a stupid question but why?

Forestd16b14_ESO

Don't you know ZOS hates all forms DKs and Templars That's why the continued to nerf us even when we were balanced and because of exploiters and abusers in PvP making "un killable" DK builds we won't be getting buffed for a while cause the NB META QQ to much.

RoamingRiverElk

Because only sorcerers and nightblades are supposed to be able to somewhat play on their own and defy the zerg. Because natural order of things and such.

... *sigh*

Tryxus

cuz ZOS is too kind to all the nerf-sayers out there

Baphometrising

@ESO see the problem is this I know you're trying to make a game easy and playable for the casual gamer but for those of us who have put time and effort into a character to have it nerfed so much that now it's at the point you don't even want to play or your main is now an over leveled farmer.... Thanks ESO you're the greatest

edorfeus

ZOS hates everyone except nightblades.

Sharee

DK's are supposed to receive some upgrades next year. What was mentioned specifically is upgrading their DOT's - let's hope they don't stop there.

Joy_Division

Sharee wrote: »

DK's are supposed to receive some upgrades next year. What was mentioned specifically is upgrading their DOT's - let's hope they don't stop there.

Exactly what they don't need.

OP: ZoS doesn;t hate DKs...this is what you get when a company think that they alone, without player input or testing, can balance a complex MMO by itself and only makes changes once a year.

If they swing a miss with your class, you got to suffer for an entire year.

Sharee

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DK's are supposed to receive some upgrades next year. What was mentioned specifically is upgrading their DOT's - let's hope they don't stop there.

Exactly what they don't need.

Depends on what the change will be. For example, i suggested making DK flame dots unpurgeable. If something like that went in, a DK dot build would suddenly be a lot more interesting.

Alucardo

Sharee wrote: »

DK's are supposed to receive some upgrades next year. What was mentioned specifically is upgrading their DOT's - let's hope they don't stop there.

Lol I hope you're not serious. The DoTs are fine, it's everything else that isn't xD

Edit:

Sharee wrote: »

Depends on what the change will be. For example, i suggested making DK flame dots unpurgeable. If something like that went in, a DK dot build would suddenly be a lot more interesting.

Ok, this would be pretty cool actually.

Islyn

Sharee wrote: »

DK's are supposed to receive some upgrades next year. What was mentioned specifically is upgrading their DOT's - let's hope they don't stop there.

Especially since you have to get right on the boss to place dots...

Tryxus

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DK's are supposed to receive some upgrades next year. What was mentioned specifically is upgrading their DOT's - let's hope they don't stop there.

Exactly what they don't need.

Depends on what the change will be. For example, i suggested making DK flame dots unpurgeable. If something like that went in, a DK dot build would suddenly be a lot more interesting.

But that would ruin stealth based gameplay since any form of damage knocks you out of stealth (hence AoEs do that alrdy)

And as a bonus, it would make Cloak once again a useless skill.

For a DK I think it's best to undo several of their nerfs and give them an execute ability instead of increasing the strength of their DoTs. I suggested Stonefist and its morphs for that role, since almost nobody bothers with that skill anymore

Alucardo

Tryxus wrote: »

And as a bonus, it would make Cloak once again a useless skill.

Haha come on man. You can go INVISIBLE at will - that's always going to be awesome. Most of my damage comes from DoTs, so I cry every time a NB just cloaks it off. It'd be like me having a skill the negates, or severely decreases the damage of surprise attack.

Tryxus

Alucardo wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

And as a bonus, it would make Cloak once again a useless skill.

Haha come on man. You can go INVISIBLE at will - that's always going to be awesome. Most of my damage comes from DoTs, so I cry every time a NB just cloaks it off. It'd be like me having a skill the negates, or severely decreases the damage of surprise attack.

Yeah, but if it's made unpurgable, then we can't go invisible anymore: the damage from the unpurgable DoT will knock the Cloak right off.

Personally I think the DK should get other buffs besides a DoT increase or effect change. Like increasing the self heal of GDB, increased duration of Magma Shell & Standard, turning Stonefist into an Execute with a Stam Morph added,... and other things too (been a while since I played DK xD )

SemiD4rkness

Islyn wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DK's are supposed to receive some upgrades next year. What was mentioned specifically is upgrading their DOT's - let's hope they don't stop there.

Especially since you have to get right on the boss to place dots...

I don't know if serious or not. In pve magicka dks are still one of the top classes.

Sharee

Tryxus wrote: »

But that would ruin stealth based gameplay since any form of damage knocks you out of stealth (hence AoEs do that alrdy)

And as a bonus, it would make Cloak once again a useless skill.

That was kinda the point, actually. DK's would become the prime counter to cloak. This means that whatever nerf to cloak ZOS has planned (and we know they do) would become unnecessary.

And cloak would not have to become useless. For example the frequency of flame ticks could be decreased(and damage increased to compensate), allowing for cloak to still be used tactically - cloak after a tick for SA stun, or to avoid an incoming projectile, or to clear another dot(only DK dots would be immune). You just wouldn't be able to chain cloak to become continually invisible for long periods of time if you have a DK dot on you.

Instant

Yes, please give DKs an execute so i can do even more DPS in PvE.

tangy.citrus

Im tired of my usual 30k dps in pve, i wanna start doing 40k. /LFbrokeDK

/waiting for dk nerf topics in 2016

Destruent

Tryxus wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

And as a bonus, it would make Cloak once again a useless skill.

Haha come on man. You can go INVISIBLE at will - that's always going to be awesome. Most of my damage comes from DoTs, so I cry every time a NB just cloaks it off. It'd be like me having a skill the negates, or severely decreases the damage of surprise attack.

Yeah, but if it's made unpurgable, then we can't go invisible anymore: the damage from the unpurgable DoT will knock the Cloak right off.

Personally I think the DK should get other buffs besides a DoT increase or effect change. Like increasing the self heal of GDB, increased duration of Magma Shell & Standard, turning Stonefist into an Execute with a Stam Morph added,... and other things too (been a while since I played DK xD )

You have to consider, that Magicka-DKs already have the best sustain DPS in PvE..giving them even more DPS will get us back to the 10 DKs + 2 temp-heal raids we had last year. i hope this will never happen!
Buffing Dragon Blood seems fine, Magma Shell also. But Standard of Might is fine as it is...they simply cannot buff anything that is used for DKs single target DPS.

Armitas

Here is whats going to happen. They will brainstorm a DK fix in their secret labs without making any specific mention to us. They will then build those changes into the next PTS which will also be the first time we are informed of the changes. Once on PTS if we don't like the changes we will have to wait another year for them to attempt to correct it. Even worse than all this I have serious doubts that there will be any special attention given to the class at all. It rather seems that we will just be 1, non special member, of a global system update that includes all classes, weapons, and systems, like the champion system.

I give them 1 chance to fix the DK and if they fail I'm done. I won't wait a year to fix a fix. I don't give them this chance because I have hope left, I give it because I have invested 2 years into this game. I wish I could do it out of hope but, sadly that reservoir has run worse than empty.

Joy_Division

Destruent wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

And as a bonus, it would make Cloak once again a useless skill.

Haha come on man. You can go INVISIBLE at will - that's always going to be awesome. Most of my damage comes from DoTs, so I cry every time a NB just cloaks it off. It'd be like me having a skill the negates, or severely decreases the damage of surprise attack.

Yeah, but if it's made unpurgable, then we can't go invisible anymore: the damage from the unpurgable DoT will knock the Cloak right off.

Personally I think the DK should get other buffs besides a DoT increase or effect change. Like increasing the self heal of GDB, increased duration of Magma Shell & Standard, turning Stonefist into an Execute with a Stam Morph added,... and other things too (been a while since I played DK xD )

You have to consider, that Magicka-DKs already have the best sustain DPS in PvE..giving them even more DPS will get us back to the 10 DKs + 2 temp-heal raids we had last year. i hope this will never happen!
Buffing Dragon Blood seems fine, Magma Shell also. But Standard of Might is fine as it is...they simply cannot buff anything that is used for DKs single target DPS.

Not necessarily. If ZoS does their job and actually makes the many underperforming skills from the other classes worthy, DKs are going to need that buff.

Also, Standard of Might is most certainly not fine. 250 ultiamte is far too expensive for what it does. And what it does isn't that gamebreaking. The other day, I stood in what happened to be an enemy banner that had a glitched animation so I couldn't see it. I was wondering what the weird noises were and after about 6-7 seconds or so, looked at my combat log and then realized the small damage ticks were from an opponent's standard. I then moved out of it and continued to PvP as if nothing had happened.

Destruent

maybe standard sucks in Pvp, but it is the second best ultimate for PvE-DPS (right behind Overload) and definitely the best for long fights and thrashpacks...
With good group support and all buffs up my standard can crit for ~10k itself while buffing my whole dmg by 20% which is huge.
atm no class can outperform DKs sustained DPS...maybe they will need buffs in the future regarding DPS, but not now.

edit: i don't think buffing everyones DPS is a good thing...good players are actually destroiing most bosses in less than a minute (including vMSA-bosses)...

Tryxus

Sharee wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

But that would ruin stealth based gameplay since any form of damage knocks you out of stealth (hence AoEs do that alrdy)

And as a bonus, it would make Cloak once again a useless skill.

That was kinda the point, actually. DK's would become the prime counter to cloak. This means that whatever nerf to cloak ZOS has planned (and we know they do) would become unnecessary.

And cloak would not have to become useless. For example the frequency of flame ticks could be decreased(and damage increased to compensate), allowing for cloak to still be used tactically - cloak after a tick for SA stun, or to avoid an incoming projectile, or to clear another dot(only DK dots would be immune). You just wouldn't be able to chain cloak to become continually invisible for long periods of time if you have a DK dot on you.

Alrdy so many counters to Cloak, and you want the class that can bully Sorcs with Scales to also bully another class with their DoT? Might as well ask for every skill to inflict Major Defile to disable Templars as well...

Also, if DoT becomes unpurgable, think of the consequences it would have on gameplay balance and Cyrodiil itself. Vamps would shun Cyrodiil like the plague since they get fire damage they can't get rid off. NB won't be able to retreat from DK encounters. DKs would simply spam Burning Breath or so continuously in breached walls to prevent enemy factions from entering. Purge skills would become useless. And so on...

A DK doesn't need unpurgable or stronger DoT skills. It needs other things:

- Doubling the healing of Dragon Blood: yes, I said double the healing since healing was reduced by half due to Battle Spirit and with the Stam Block nerf, GDB with extra healing would make DKs awesome tanks again.
- Increase the duration of Magma Armor and the Standard: it was reduced in previous patches, it's time to unnerf it and allow DK to be true battlefield controllers again
- Make Stonefist an Execute: it's not that great a skill, so giving it the 300% +damage under 25% hp treatment would give Magicka DKs an execute. Stam Morph is optional, not rlly needed since 2H has a stam execute but it would allow the DK to have more variety
- Fix Chains: Chains should be a reliable gap closer without the DK getting pulled in instead. ZOS might have to add an extra variable for that (Chain Pulled) instead of having the skill bug out if the enemy is on CC immunity

Might be other things as well, but this would be a good start to have the Stam DK become the true Battlefield Controllers of Yore again. And to allow the Magicka DK to become feared in Cyrodiil again.

Xsorus

i don't think you need to make dots not able to be purged, simply make scorching flare actually work.
Right now even if you use dark cloak, and don't actually stealth because you are revealed.. You still purge the actual dots... Like scorching reveal for example... If you fixed that and made dark cloak only remove dots when you actually stealth you'd made magical dk for instance able to slot something like that and be fairly good stealth hunters for example.

Sharee

Tryxus wrote: »

NB won't be able to retreat from DK encounters.

Kinda like a DK isn't able to retreat from NB encounters today. I don't see an issue.

Tryxus wrote: »

DKs would simply spam Burning Breath or so continuously in breached walls to prevent enemy factions from entering. Purge skills would become useless. And so on...

If spamming wall of elements(which also cannot be purged) on a breach cannot prevent enemy faction from entering, then neither will spamming burning breath. Have you ever witnessed wall of elements stopping an enemy zerg from going through breach? Neither did i.

And purge being unable to clear two of the hundreds of effects it can clear today won't suddenly make it useless either.

Tryxus

Sharee wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

NB won't be able to retreat from DK encounters.

Kinda like a DK isn't able to retreat from NB encounters today. I don't see an issue.

Tryxus wrote: »

DKs would simply spam Burning Breath or so continuously in breached walls to prevent enemy factions from entering. Purge skills would become useless. And so on...

If spamming wall of elements(which also cannot be purged) on a breach cannot prevent enemy faction from entering, then neither will spamming burning breath. Have you ever witnessed wall of elements stopping an enemy zerg from going through breach? Neither did i.

And purge being unable to clear two of the hundreds of effects it can clear today won't suddenly make it useless either.

1. DK has no escape options indeed, but with that you're taking away a NB's

2. Only problem is: WoE does very little damage compared to Burning Breath etc. Breath hits hard, then places an unpurgable DoT on you... DK are def gonna spam that while standing in their Standards or having Magma Armor up so their buddies can pick off the weakened ones... that'll def happening

3. Maybe not, but it'll be 2 effects that'll be abused until they're nerfed, which will happen then

Sharee

Tryxus wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

NB won't be able to retreat from DK encounters.

Kinda like a DK isn't able to retreat from NB encounters today. I don't see an issue.

Tryxus wrote: »

DKs would simply spam Burning Breath or so continuously in breached walls to prevent enemy factions from entering. Purge skills would become useless. And so on...

If spamming wall of elements(which also cannot be purged) on a breach cannot prevent enemy faction from entering, then neither will spamming burning breath. Have you ever witnessed wall of elements stopping an enemy zerg from going through breach? Neither did i.

And purge being unable to clear two of the hundreds of effects it can clear today won't suddenly make it useless either.

3. Only problem is: WoE does very little damage compared to Burning Breath etc. Breath hits hard, then places an unpurgable DoT on you... DK are def gonna spam that while standing in their Standards or having Magma Armor up so their buddies can pick off the weakened ones... that'll def happening.

You can't be serious. Burning breath hits hard?

You know how people say flame whip hits like a wet noodle? Flame whip hits almost four times harder than the instant damage portion of burning breath.

Flame whip: 4189
Breath: 1170

Those are my tooltips. By spamming breath, the only thing you gonna be burning down is your magicka pool.

Joy_Division

Destruent wrote: »

maybe standard sucks in Pvp, but it is the second best ultimate for PvE-DPS (right behind Overload) and definitely the best for long fights and thrashpacks...
With good group support and all buffs up my standard can crit for ~10k itself while buffing my whole dmg by 20% which is huge.
atm no class can outperform DKs sustained DPS...maybe they will need buffs in the future regarding DPS, but not now.

edit: i don't think buffing everyones DPS is a good thing...good players are actually destroiing most bosses in less than a minute (including vMSA-bosses)...

Bosses are melting because there are no caps, the power creep that comes with all progression games, and the dungeons were all set to a difficulty when ZoS assumed we had zero champion points.

I don't agree that Dks should still be stuck with substandard skills just because ZoS nerfed the Praxin fight in Spindleclutch to uselessness and because of assumptions made about a version of a game that will not exist when the next patch comes out.

Shadesofkin

I still feel like if Green Dragons Blood gave Stamina back and Coagulating gave a massive heal (bigger than either GDB or the unMorphed version) it would return some of the survivability that we've lost from previous attempts to balance the class.

Sukenlihol

Beacuse they are "best" DD in PvE, king of damage meters.

Awesome ultimate, crazy dots, 25k sustained dps...

C'mon guys, You can be objective. There isn't a "hate" about Fire DK around here.

Every class has pros and cons. it should be like this.
But you want an escape option, finisher, good ranged DPS, more self-heal for Fire DK...We are talking about a flawless class, you don't noticed?

Alcast

PvE Wise Magicka DKs are totally fine, one of the best.
PvP Wise they lack mobility and burst.


And before I forget it:
buff NB and Sorc.
nurf temp and dk

because reasons