An Observation regarding - BLUE and RED Zergs on AZ

Hootnannius

So I'm in AD group on Azuras with about 18 people. Whenever we fight groups of 30 or less reds or blues, we wipe them easily. So blues then pile up 40, 50, 60 zerg balls and show up at Ash or Nikel. We small AD groups start to have crashes, skills not going off, ultimates not dropped, and weapons not swapping, But your ZERG has no problems.

Also, we notice that the red and blue streamers who are these big zerg groups all have pings of under 200 during the fights where we AD can't play the game.

So what's the explanation for this anomaly ?

DaveMoeDee

We have ping issues when we fight your ZERG, so it is the same both ways.

Ackwalan

Hootnannius wrote: »

So I'm in AD group on Azuras with about 18 people. Whenever we fight groups of 30 or less reds or blues, we wipe them easily. So blues then pile up 40, 50, 60 zerg balls and show up at Ash or Nikel. We small AD groups start to have crashes, skills not going off, ultimates not dropped, and weapons not swapping, But your ZERG has no problems.

Also, we notice that the red and blue streamers who are these big zerg groups all have pings of under 200 during the fights where we AD can't play the game.

So what's the explanation for this anomaly ?

The anomaly is that you think there is an anomaly.

Kova

Hey there,

I wanted to help you out before someone tears this thread apart with sarcasm and venom.I know it really does seem that these guys are zerging and exploiting all over the place, but I have to assert that it is perceived isolation. As many users will soon point out and then argue over, every faction does this including AD. You just happen to play at a certain time and place in which these factions group up and spam abilities that are minimally affected by server calls.

As for the streamers, most of these guys won't go up against another spamming zerg if they don't have to. Not to mention, in order to support streaming and PvP, they might have the connection and packet transfer speeds of young gods.

Remember that only those who experience the problem will speak up about it in chat/TS. Otherwise you would see hundreds of players complaining in zone instead of the 12 that have loud mouths.

Good luck out there! We are brothers in the fight against the mighty Ser Ver.

PainfulFAFA

PvP has evolved into PvLag and PvLS (Loading Screen)

Rylana

Hootnannius wrote: »

So I'm in AD group on Azuras with about 18 people. Whenever we fight groups of 30 or less reds or blues, we wipe them easily. So blues then pile up 40, 50, 60 zerg balls and show up at Ash or Nikel. We small AD groups start to have crashes, skills not going off, ultimates not dropped, and weapons not swapping, But your ZERG has no problems.

Also, we notice that the red and blue streamers who are these big zerg groups all have pings of under 200 during the fights where we AD can't play the game.

So what's the explanation for this anomaly ?

The anomaly is you keep using numbers to justify your skill level in PvP

"i had less people so I am better" blah blah blah blah, oldest tiredest argument.

Sure I could brag about the GoS 8 man elite team wrecking blobs of 30, but whats the point? Does that make us pro leet haxzors or impress anyone? No? Why should it?

Why must you preface your post with the immediate assertion you were a smaller force?

Also, everyone lags. In lag numbers win purely by more of everything going everywhere, damage, heals, etc, because reaction becomes moot.

Xeniph

To actually answer the question for you Hoot.

The reason it appears the larger groups aren't having issues is because not everyone is effected equally by lag. That is to say, not everyone fired their button off in the same nano second, peoples pings differ from region, computer specs and connections.
Therefore when fighting a larger group, especially ones much larger than yourself, more abilities are being fired off per second than in that smaller group, even though both groups experience the relatively same lag.

Cinbri

True pros eating proxy deto in the face.

DannyLV702

Every single faction zergs so don't act like you're not part of the blame/problem. Or is it always a coincidence that it's always "everyone else" zerging? It's never, "my alliance". The real problem isn't even us, it's the game...

Akinos

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Every single faction zergs so don't act like you're not part of the blame/problem. Or is it always a coincidence that it's always "everyone else" zerging? It's never, "my alliance". The real problem isn't even us, it's the game...

The real, REAL problem are the people that can't seem to understand that it's the game. Unfortunely, it's human nature to blame and hate things that we don't understand or cannot have.

Alcast

"It is always the other factions that bring lag, but never my own. "

lul

Xiphyla

AD in NA lagzura complain about lag coming from dc and ep .....

Hootnannius

"Therefore when fighting a larger group, especially ones much larger than yourself, more abilities are being fired off per second than in that smaller group, even though both groups experience the relatively same lag."

This is exactly my point. The effect of really bad lag is that it takes the skill variable out of the equation. When more than 50 % of the group can't reliably get skills off or deploy ults in the typical AZ lag fest, the game is reduced to whoever has the larger number of players win.

So it's my observation on PC NA Azura that AD group of 18 or so players will battle DC groups of 24+, and consistently wipe the DC groups. Ideally, in a fun a game, DC would adjust its tactics and then start to wipe AD by playing more skillfully. But often instead of that happening, DC gets two or three full raid groups together and lags out the game. At that point, skill doesn't matter because no one can play skillfully in that much lag.

I'm sure AD has been guilty of this kind of zerging before, but it's very rarely the result of deliberate and conscious choice on the part of group leaders. I could count one hand the number of times where the AD groups I've been have done that deliberately. But DC (especially Wizard Daniel's groups) seems to have adopted LAG as their main tactic.

It would be better if instead of even distributing the lag among everyone, the faction with the largest number of players were disproportionately affected by the lag. That' may not be technologically feasible, but ZOS should create some kind of game mechanic to stop this because it breaks the game.

For example, what if whenever more than 40 players of the same faction were within X number of meters of each other, the game randomly teleported 25 % of the players to some other location. Like on the pledges when the 4 person group is fighting a boss and one random player from the group gets teleported somewhere.

Lucky28

Alcast wrote: »

"It is always the other factions that bring lag, but never my own. "

lul

Everyone does it true enough. but there are some groups/guilds who are worse than others. particularly the ones who know they are causing lag and do it intentionally to give themselves an advantage.
Don't know if that DC group was one of them, wasn't on then. just sayin'.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

Small AD group with about 18 people, kek

RAGUNAnoOne

Talk to me when AD stops doing that as well. Please let me know zergs in general regardless of who does it really *** me off

Alcast

Remember, definition of zerg = 2+ in grp!!

Lucky28 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

"It is always the other factions that bring lag, but never my own. "

lul

Everyone does it true enough. but there are some groups/guilds who are worse than others. particularly the ones who know they are causing lag and do it intentionally to give themselves an advantage.
Don't know if that DC group was one of them, wasn't on then. just sayin'.

I wouldnt even say that some do it intentionally. They are just too dumb to NOT group up like idiots because 90% of the zerg has literally no f... clue wtf they are doing

mchermie

These threads are getting dumber and dumber

Hektik_V

One of the AD "small man groups."

Lucky28

Hektik_V wrote: »

One of the AD "small man groups."

Lol yeah. was that when we where pushing to get Chim back and AD decided to take BRK?.

Such ingrates.

Ghostbane

Hektik_V wrote: »

One of the AD "small man groups."

Hek on his temp. Serious business.

Crown

@Kova is right here - it's perception.

Just look at how @Hektik_V points out that while he's in an 8-person group AD is zerging. He had no issue being part of an overwhelming force of 60+ EP taking Alessia a few days ago when our group had 10 people. He wasn't leading all 60, and he may have been in an 8-person group then too, but with 60+ EP present for the keep take he was part of the zerg.

All factions do it, some group leaders try (sometimes) to move away from the rest of their faction when the lag is bad (exception usually being for the last emp keep), but when you end up somewhere and see one or two full raid groups already there, the usual reaction is, "lets see if we can get the kills (AP) before the others do - it would be too irritating to have to ride another 5 minutes to get somewhere else where we don't know if there will be defenders as PvDooring isn't fun and we want good fights".

There are also some skills that work a lot better in lag, Steel Tornado and Bats being among them - which is why we see so many people running spin-to-win in the large groups and especially in laggy conditions.

BRogueNZ

@Hektik_V

The EP group that we wiped retaking BRK was at least that size+

So there you all were, after its all repaired just chill

I guess we probably ruined a prime video and flex opportunity but oh well

Tors

Hootnannius wrote: »

Also, we notice that the red and blue streamers who are these big zerg groups all have pings of under 200 during the fights where we AD can't play the game.

So what's the explanation for this anomaly ?

1. Using a proxy service (correctly)
2. Better ISP
3. Way better computer than yours
4. Understanding what services to cut and what to push resources to (on your pc)
5. Lowered video quality. FOR GODS SAKE TURN OFF YOUR BUMPMAPPING BEFORE CRYING ..... SET NORMAL_MAPS "0"

Jura23

Crown wrote: »

@Kova is right here - it's perception.

Just look at how @Hektik_V points out that while he's in an 8-person group AD is zerging. He had no issue being part of an overwhelming force of 60+ EP taking Alessia a few days ago when our group had 10 people. He wasn't leading all 60, and he may have been in an 8-person group then too, but with 60+ EP present for the keep take he was part of the zerg.

All factions do it, some group leaders try (sometimes) to move away from the rest of their faction when the lag is bad (exception usually being for the last emp keep), but when you end up somewhere and see one or two full raid groups already there, the usual reaction is, "lets see if we can get the kills (AP) before the others do - it would be too irritating to have to ride another 5 minutes to get somewhere else where we don't know if there will be defenders as PvDooring isn't fun and we want good fights".

There are also some skills that work a lot better in lag, Steel Tornado and Bats being among them - which is why we see so many people running spin-to-win in the large groups and especially in laggy conditions.

That sentence doesn't make much sense though. So do they want good fights or AP/kills?

Crown

@Jura23 Most want good fights, but the appeal of AP (not wanting to spend 5-10 minutes moving to the next place) is too strong. So get the AP if you can then move off hoping that you won't run into more of your own faction in the next place..

Xiphyla

Tors wrote: »

Hootnannius wrote: »

Also, we notice that the red and blue streamers who are these big zerg groups all have pings of under 200 during the fights where we AD can't play the game.

So what's the explanation for this anomaly ?

1. Using a proxy service (correctly)
2. Better ISP
3. Way better computer than yours
4. Understanding what services to cut and what to push resources to (on your pc)
5. Lowered video quality. FOR GODS SAKE TURN OFF YOUR BUMPMAPPING BEFORE CRYING ..... SET NORMAL_MAPS "0"

I seriously had a good laugh when you typed this.

Winnamine

Hootnannius wrote: »

"Therefore when fighting a larger group, especially ones much larger than yourself, more abilities are being fired off per second than in that smaller group, even though both groups experience the relatively same lag."

This is exactly my point. The effect of really bad lag is that it takes the skill variable out of the equation. When more than 50 % of the group can't reliably get skills off or deploy ults in the typical AZ lag fest, the game is reduced to whoever has the larger number of players win.

So it's my observation on PC NA Azura that AD group of 18 or so players will battle DC groups of 24+, and consistently wipe the DC groups. Ideally, in a fun a game, DC would adjust its tactics and then start to wipe AD by playing more skillfully. But often instead of that happening, DC gets two or three full raid groups together and lags out the game. At that point, skill doesn't matter because no one can play skillfully in that much lag.

I'm sure AD has been guilty of this kind of zerging before, but it's very rarely the result of deliberate and conscious choice on the part of group leaders. I could count one hand the number of times where the AD groups I've been have done that deliberately. But DC (especially Wizard Daniel's groups) seems to have adopted LAG as their main tactic.

It would be better if instead of even distributing the lag among everyone, the faction with the largest number of players were disproportionately affected by the lag. That' may not be technologically feasible, but ZOS should create some kind of game mechanic to stop this because it breaks the game.

For example, what if whenever more than 40 players of the same faction were within X number of meters of each other, the game randomly teleported 25 % of the players to some other location. Like on the pledges when the 4 person group is fighting a boss and one random player from the group gets teleported somewhere.

Ohhh I assure you, there are and have always been AD guilds that like to stack multiple full raids in one place.
And most if not all guilds, including AD ones, will stack guilds on top of each other in order to take/defend important objectives (like emp or maybe scrolls).

A couple possibilities here:
1. you play on a server where AD has a relatively minor guild presence, and where none of the larger guilds play, so you only experience DC and EP zerging.
2. more likely, you have zerg goggles. Zerg goggles multiply the number of enemies around you, while completely hiding large portions of your allies. I don't mean to be insulting with this, it happens to almost everyone, and it's actually kinda weird. I've talked to experienced pvpers after fights, and they honestly failed to notice entire other guilds there on the battlefield with them, insisting that their group was there alone vs our "50." Try turning on your friendly alliance indicators, you'll probably notice a significant increase in the number of AD you see on battlefields.

Snit

So... this is still broken? I'd hoped six months or so would be sufficient for some performance fixes.

It's possible that I'm not very smart

Satiar

AD definitely been rolling lately. This is a good thing, though I wish they'd stack up less. At any rate, if the population holds into the New Year I'll be pleased.

Jules

Winnamine wrote: »

Hootnannius wrote: »

"Therefore when fighting a larger group, especially ones much larger than yourself, more abilities are being fired off per second than in that smaller group, even though both groups experience the relatively same lag."

This is exactly my point. The effect of really bad lag is that it takes the skill variable out of the equation. When more than 50 % of the group can't reliably get skills off or deploy ults in the typical AZ lag fest, the game is reduced to whoever has the larger number of players win.

So it's my observation on PC NA Azura that AD group of 18 or so players will battle DC groups of 24+, and consistently wipe the DC groups. Ideally, in a fun a game, DC would adjust its tactics and then start to wipe AD by playing more skillfully. But often instead of that happening, DC gets two or three full raid groups together and lags out the game. At that point, skill doesn't matter because no one can play skillfully in that much lag.

I'm sure AD has been guilty of this kind of zerging before, but it's very rarely the result of deliberate and conscious choice on the part of group leaders. I could count one hand the number of times where the AD groups I've been have done that deliberately. But DC (especially Wizard Daniel's groups) seems to have adopted LAG as their main tactic.

It would be better if instead of even distributing the lag among everyone, the faction with the largest number of players were disproportionately affected by the lag. That' may not be technologically feasible, but ZOS should create some kind of game mechanic to stop this because it breaks the game.

For example, what if whenever more than 40 players of the same faction were within X number of meters of each other, the game randomly teleported 25 % of the players to some other location. Like on the pledges when the 4 person group is fighting a boss and one random player from the group gets teleported somewhere.

Ohhh I assure you, there are and have always been AD guilds that like to stack multiple full raids in one place.
And most if not all guilds, including AD ones, will stack guilds on top of each other in order to take/defend important objectives (like emp or maybe scrolls).

A couple possibilities here:
1. you play on a server where AD has a relatively minor guild presence, and where none of the larger guilds play, so you only experience DC and EP zerging.
2. more likely, you have zerg goggles. Zerg goggles multiply the number of enemies around you, while completely hiding large portions of your allies. I don't mean to be insulting with this, it happens to almost everyone, and it's actually kinda weird. I've talked to experienced pvpers after fights, and they honestly failed to notice entire other guilds there on the battlefield with them, insisting that their group was there alone vs our "50." Try turning on your friendly alliance indicators, you'll probably notice a significant increase in the number of AD you see on battlefields.

this^