Major Quest Oversight? Forcing Honest Characters To Become Dishonest?

Deadmano

So I have quite the gripe here...

There is a quest called "Restoring Order" from the Ebonheart Pact side, and without going into too many details, at a certain point in the quest stage you are required to pick the lock of the house of Rhavil Urano... Now up until now my Dark Elf has never stolen a single thing or lock picked a single door (trespassing) other than treasure chests... I feel this was forced without another way to solve the quest and my otherwise clean streak in the Justice achievements section is now ruined...

Is this fair guys? TES games are known for their multiple solutions to a quest... But this? Forcing honest players who RP to have to resort to thievery/petty crimes in order to solve a quest, that has got nothing to do with thievery/crime?!

Refuse2GrowUp

Oh no...I am telling Mr Jesus on you!! Criminal!

Just take comfort in the fact chicks dig criminals

Xendyn

I just did this on an alt and kind of had the same thought.
Not that my character cares, but it seemed odd to have to break into a house you Have to get into for a quest.

Turelus

Sadly I don't think you'll have much help here. I agree with you but the way the MMO is developed you have to make some sacrificed in RP/morals to actually get things done.

There are a large number of areas in the game which could have had alternative ways of doing it but are designed to just be quests, for being quests. This is more evident if you ever try to play a Bethesda game or ESO as an evil character, there are very few options to ask for rewards otherwise you won't help, everything just assumes you're the LG Paladin looking to help everyone no matter what.

I actually miss SWTOR because for the most part they got it right with good/evil, ways of doing things.

Deadmano

Turelus wrote: »

Sadly I don't think you'll have much help here. I agree with you but the way the MMO is developed you have to make some sacrificed in RP/morals to actually get things done.

There are a large number of areas in the game which could have had alternative ways of doing it but are designed to just be quests, for being quests. This is more evident if you ever try to play a Bethesda game or ESO as an evil character, there are very few options to ask for rewards otherwise you won't help, everything just assumes you're the LG Paladin looking to help everyone no matter what.

I actually miss SWTOR because for the most part they got it right with good/evil, ways of doing things.

Agreed, though it makes no sense why they FORCED you to break in, and have it count towards your record... Some people actually go out of their way to ensure they RP the "good guy" and then this happens? I would understand a side-quest to find a key... Or it not being counted as an actual stat...

Volkodav

Deadmano wrote: »

So I have quite the gripe here...

There is a quest called "Restoring Order" from the Ebonheart Pact side, and without going into too many details, at a certain point in the quest stage you are required to pick the lock of the house of Rhavil Urano... Now up until now my Dark Elf has never stolen a single thing or lock picked a single door (trespassing) other than treasure chests... I feel this was forced without another way to solve the quest and my otherwise clean streak in the Justice achievements section is now ruined...

Is this fair guys? TES games are known for their multiple solutions to a quest... But this? Forcing honest players who RP to have to resort to thievery/petty crimes in order to solve a quest, that has got nothing to do with thievery/crime?!

Awe,c'mon.It's just a game. XD
(and yes,it's fair.)

lolo_01b16_ESO

Deadmano wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Sadly I don't think you'll have much help here. I agree with you but the way the MMO is developed you have to make some sacrificed in RP/morals to actually get things done.

There are a large number of areas in the game which could have had alternative ways of doing it but are designed to just be quests, for being quests. This is more evident if you ever try to play a Bethesda game or ESO as an evil character, there are very few options to ask for rewards otherwise you won't help, everything just assumes you're the LG Paladin looking to help everyone no matter what.

I actually miss SWTOR because for the most part they got it right with good/evil, ways of doing things.

Agreed, though it makes no sense why they FORCED you to break in, and have it count towards your record... Some people actually go out of their way to ensure they RP the "good guy" and then this happens? I would understand a side-quest to find a key... Or it not being counted as an actual stat...

It happened "by accident". When the game launched you could just enter any house and no npc would care about it. When they added the justice system, they put locks on most houses, but forgot that there are quests that require you to go inside.

Deadmano

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

Deadmano wrote: »

So I have quite the gripe here...

There is a quest called "Restoring Order" from the Ebonheart Pact side, and without going into too many details, at a certain point in the quest stage you are required to pick the lock of the house of Rhavil Urano... Now up until now my Dark Elf has never stolen a single thing or lock picked a single door (trespassing) other than treasure chests... I feel this was forced without another way to solve the quest and my otherwise clean streak in the Justice achievements section is now ruined...

Is this fair guys? TES games are known for their multiple solutions to a quest... But this? Forcing honest players who RP to have to resort to thievery/petty crimes in order to solve a quest, that has got nothing to do with thievery/crime?!

Awe,c'mon.It's just a game. XD
(and yes,it's fair.)

A game, until [take your favourite part about what you like doing] is taken away from you and the meta forced upon by ZOS. This is my preference, I am sure you have yours, thankfully yours isn't affected; yet.

If I wanted to play as a cutthroat thief or be even vaguely interested in the Justice system I would have done so, by my own accord, and not be forced into it. Notice the use of "forced", there was no option and it was required to progress in the quest-line.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Deadmano wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Sadly I don't think you'll have much help here. I agree with you but the way the MMO is developed you have to make some sacrificed in RP/morals to actually get things done.

There are a large number of areas in the game which could have had alternative ways of doing it but are designed to just be quests, for being quests. This is more evident if you ever try to play a Bethesda game or ESO as an evil character, there are very few options to ask for rewards otherwise you won't help, everything just assumes you're the LG Paladin looking to help everyone no matter what.

I actually miss SWTOR because for the most part they got it right with good/evil, ways of doing things.

Agreed, though it makes no sense why they FORCED you to break in, and have it count towards your record... Some people actually go out of their way to ensure they RP the "good guy" and then this happens? I would understand a side-quest to find a key... Or it not being counted as an actual stat...

It happened "by accident". When the game launched you could just enter any house and no npc would care about it. When they added the justice system, they put locks on most houses, but forgot that there are quests that require you to go inside.

Really? Is there a source to that?! That could be grounds to request a "fix" for their "mistake".

Usara

Remember, the game and its quests were designed before the Justice system. On a side note, there is the equivalent in each faction.
But I actually think it makes sense. As a criminal, you don't let your door open to anyone, you lock yourself in to design your evil plans
Problem is, when lockpicking his door, you are supposedly acting on behalf of the law.
The quests where you are asked by the guard/representatives of the force of a city to break in some baddies house should not be considered "regular" breaking and entering of the Justice system.
Maybe it will come ? I assume there will be further changes in the Justice system with the Thief Guild in the coming DLCs, so who knows ?

Robo_Hobo

And so the valiant hero let the forces of evil win this day, because after exhausting all possible solutions in the given circumstances, he couldn't set aside his morals and use a lockpick to break into a house for the greater good.

Deadmano

Usara wrote: »

Remember, the game and its quests were designed before the Justice system. On a side note, there is the equivalent in each faction.
But I actually think it makes sense. As a criminal, you don't let your door open to anyone, you lock yourself in to design your evil plans
Problem is, when lockpicking his door, you are supposedly acting on behalf of the law.
The quests where you are asked by the guard/representatives of the force of a city to break in some baddies house should not be considered "regular" breaking and entering of the Justice system.
Maybe it will come ? I assume there will be further changes in the Justice system with the Thief Guild in the coming DLCs, so who knows ?

I get that, but as the title states "Major Oversight" or "Oversight" if you will. This isn't something someone who puts a ton of detail into their account (yes I am pedantic and yes I am OCD and YES I have every right to be and play the way I wish to be, as does everyone else, hence freedom of character creation and choices) but I cannot accept a decision like this being forced upon us. So I will accept for now it is an oversight and all I can hope is that the single breaking-and-entering deed is removed from my character along with the achievement, so I can have no part in the Justice system.

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

And so the valiant hero let the forces of evil win this day, because after exhausting all possible solutions in the given circumstances, he couldn't set aside his morals and use a lockpick to break into a house for the greater good.

I did just that in an extended RP, on the premise that this is an oversight and will be addressed.

TheShadowScout

Deadmano wrote: »

There is a quest called "Restoring Order" from the Ebonheart Pact side, and without going into too many details, at a certain point in the quest stage you are required to pick the lock of the house of Rhavil Urano...

Please...

...you kinda have a "warrant" to enter his home by word of the authorities in Ebonheart! At that point you already uncovered much of his treasonous behavoir, right?

Though I agree that some alternatives would have been useful... it kinda vexes me that in a few quests you can slip through a window, and in many other insances you can't. Of course, that's kinda burglary too if you think about it... break down a door with an axe or something? Use a "unlock" spell? Find a spare key under a flowerpot next to the door? Stuff like that, every now and then...

Necrelios

Yeah something about this quest never set right with my hero good guy character either. He even has his own theme song from his imaginary bard that follows him around, about being this big hero. Now it's all ruined. That one tarnish marring all of those past heroic deeds. All for not. Now the cruel theme song mocks him everywhere he goes as he hangs his head in shame.

Acrolas

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

It happened "by accident". When the game launched you could just enter any house and no npc would care about it. When they added the justice system, they put locks on most houses, but forgot that there are quests that require you to go inside.

Incorrect.

The 1.6.5 patch notes pointed out changes to these quests, and explicitly mentioned the reasoning behind Restoring Order:

"Rhavil's House and the Supply Shack are no longer restricted by the quest Restoring Order. Their locks may be picked."

Artjuh90

there are some more questionable actions you have to do in some quests then pick a lock lolz

terrordactyl1971

So, you killed thousands of animals, monsters and people without a fair trial.....and you are worried about picking a lock???

Nestor

They should provide a key or unlock the house while the quest is active. There are several quests where you have to break into someone's house.

dodgehopper_ESO

This was my biggest problem with Skyrim. There were something like 5x more quest activities to perform if you played villainous, than if you wanted to be a hero. This kills replayability. I'm hopeful as well that they will give us a counterpoint to Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild. These factions are fun but I'd like options.

Nestor

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

So, you killed thousands of animals, monsters and people without a fair trial.....and you are worried about picking a lock???

There are some NPCs that need to be killed, there are some that need to be left alone. Townies are usually in the latter group.

Xjcon

Does the game really store the fact you trespass in 1 house aside from the time it takes for the bounty to fall off?

Unsent.Soul

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

So, you killed thousands of animals, monsters and people without a fair trial.....and you are worried about picking a lock???

Don't forget, OP also mentions how he's picked locks on treasure chests....

Those are and we're locked for a certain reason, someone put them there hoping to find the chest at a later date in time but no... OP steals from the great NPC's and doesn't bat an eye....

Somemes morals are a little plagued. There is no High road in this game, as hard as one will try.

TheShadowScout

Necrelios wrote: »

Yeah something about this quest never set right with my hero good guy character either. He even has his own theme song from his imaginary bard that follows him around...

As long as it isn't something like...

"Brave, brave Sir Robin, he bravely ran away..."
"When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned tail and fled"
"Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and gallantly he chickened out"
"Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat"

MornaBaine

I'm far more annoyed that I can't join Molag Bal in his unholy crusade and become Manimarco's right hand!

Danksta

You could've just refused to do the quest.

Nestor

Xjcon wrote: »

Does the game really store the fact you trespass in 1 house aside from the time it takes for the bounty to fall off?

Yes

http://www.esohead.com/achievements/1206-home-trespasser

Shardaxx

You're an adventurer, sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do to get the job done. Deal with by drinking mead and telling the barman or the tavern wench your woes.
"One time, I had to break into a house, I'm not proud of it you understand, but in my line of work, sometimes things get 'questionable', you get me?"
"Yeah man, I know what you're saying. Here, next mug of mead is on me. This is Daisy by the way".

Xjcon

Nestor wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

Does the game really store the fact you trespass in 1 house aside from the time it takes for the bounty to fall off?

Yes

http://www.esohead.com/achievements/1206-home-trespasser

Didn't know that. Well that sucks. Guess grinding keeps me from doing something like that.

Nebthet78

Yeah I find of miss where the choices you make in the game actually made a difference to how the story plays out.

Tryxus

I didn't know "honest adventurers" were against stealing things, whereas they have no qualms killing bandits, soldiers,... and everything else that crosses their paths

Deadmano

Tryxus wrote: »

I didn't know "honest adventurers" were against stealing things, whereas they have no qualms killing bandits, soldiers,... and everything else that crosses their paths

"Reason for my sour mood and depression? Check my profile here and read the posts I made there (It's about NB, that usually works to lure ppl here)"

No need to bring your personal emotions into this feeling.

For the rest of you, perhaps stop judging and accept that (SHOCK GASP) others can have a different opinion other than your own and that it is completely normal?

I attack things in self-defense, they are red, they come running towards me, I kill them. There is no subdue target, I would use it if I needed to, grinding XP on completing quests is actually where the majority of your levels come from (early days before VR). Often times I will run from mobs of enemies or run through them without picking up aggro, I don't mindlessly kill everything in sight. I also don't attack mobs that I have out-levelled (yellow). And of course never attack villagers/townfolks etc.

Chests in the world were placed for adventurers to uncover, if they were not meant to be, or it was considered "stealing" then all the chests would be marked as such, the same it is to pick a Strongbox, in which case I wouldn't be picking locks for treasure chests.

These are the ways I choose to conduct myself in the game, I have every right to do so, if you have an issue with that you are free to keep them to yourself, as that is not what we are discussing here.

My issue, once again, is that I was forced to do something I would normally not be OK with, in order to complete a quest. I am a completionist, and I complete each and every thing there is to do in a zone before I move on.

Tryxus

I would kindly ask you to edit that first part of your post, since I put that in my signature, it's for those who are interested, to discuss that IN PRIVATE (PM, profile,...)

Anyways, back on topic

I made that comment to show that adventurers (our PC) are a bit of a paradox. You want to make an honest and honorable man/woman which is a nice thing to do.

However:
- even killing in self-defense doesn't seem like something an honest man would do, because it's still killing
- you have the option to refuse that quest giver, by saying NO or GOODBYE if you do wish to at least save some of the "honesty"

I have no issues with anyone

And you're not "forced" to do something. As an adventurer you are free to do what you want ofc. But being "honest" and "honorable" is a bit of a hard thing to do