My thoughs on AoE caps. What would you sacrifice ?

Rune_Relic

Xsorus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

@Xsorus ...cant quote for some reason.....

Remove AOE caps

There..that's it

I will try to show you why this is a bad idea.
You probably will ignore this....but I will say it anyway.

compuversal.com/eso/aoe-caps.pdf

First a quick question.
Do you really believe there would be any Lag whatsoever if all AoE caps were set at 1 ?

If you are half as intelligent as I thought you to be....then you hopefully answered that there would be no lag.
The reason being the AoE is working pretty much the same as single target skills.
Then you will understand the attached pdf and the consequences of unlimited group size and unlimited aoe caps.

Every time you hit something it send an update from client to the server, the server checks validity and updates your resources and the targets resources, and sends two update packets to the clients to update themselves.

So if there are 1000 players on screen, all hitting each other every tick, using single target skills or AoE skills capped at one, then there will be 1000 packets/tick or 500 packets/second going through the megaserver to the client (just in your area and your campaign alone).
There is no lag here.
The server network can handle this kind of traffic no problem.
This is why we had 100s of players on screen in beta without much issue.

No we are going to up the AoE cap to 6 and all 6 targets will be hit. AoE will become more and more popular over time.
Player population and thus player density will also increase with game popularity and prime time.
if 10 players are using aoe and 990 players are using single target.... 10x6 + 990x1 = 1050 packets /tick = 525 packets/s
if 100 players are using aoe and 900 players are using single target.... 100x6 + 900x1 = 1500 packets /tick = 750 packets/s
if 500 players are using aoe and 500 players are using single target.... 500x6 + 500x1 = 3500 packets /tick = 1750 packets/s
if 900 players are using aoe and 100 players are using single target.... 900x6 + 100x1 = 5500 packets /tick = 2750 packets/s

ZOS already clearly stated they don't have a problem with large numbers of players causing lag....only with burst traffic.
That burst traffic is created by players hitting considerably more players per tick.
The max amount of players that can be hit per tick is 100% dependant on AoE caps and player density.

No we are going to up the AoE cap to 60 and all 60 targets will be hit.
if 10 players are using aoe and 990 players are using single target.... 10x60 + 990x1 = 1590 packets /tick = 795 packets/s
if 100 players are using aoe and 900 players are using single target.... 100x60 + 900x1 = 6900 packets /tick = 3450 packets/s
[Notice with just 100 players using AoE @ 60 cap I am making more traffic than 900 players using AoE @ 6 cap]
if 500 players are using aoe and 500 players are using single target.... 500x60 + 500x1 = 30500 packets /tick = 15250 packets/s
if 900 players are using aoe and 100 players are using single target.... 900x60 + 100x1 = 54100 packets /tick = 27050 packets/s

You hopefully realise this is perfectly consistent with the evolution of Lag from Beta through to now.
With Cyrodiil performance utterly destroyed when caps were raised from 6 to 60 in 1.6
Server performance really doesn't give a crap about who lives or dies or diminishing returns....only how many packets it has to send and receive for client updates.

If ZOS made caps unlimited, the bigger the group, the greater the multiplyer on the Radius of the AoE they are using. A 100 man group can carpet bomb 100x the area of the the original AoE. But instead of only hitting 600 or even worse 6000 players with every tick......with unlimited AoE I will hit everyone within that increased radius without fail.
So that 10m radius AoE becomes a 100m radius AoE (square root group size x radius).
And any players that are problematic can be focused down...so that ALL PLAYERS within a 10m radius can be blown up with 100x base AoE damage per tick.

The only winner here is the biggest bomb group. Through sustained carpet bombing a massive area or melting anything of choice instantly AND ANYWHERE IN BETWEEN.
I don't know about you.....but that's not where I want cyrodiil PVP to be.

The only way to stop this is to;
1. get a handle on AoE Caps again.
2. limit group size (problematic) or limit the max hits per tick that can land on any player.

You realize you can hit more then 6 people right now with AOEs correct?

hhhmmm.. Didn't think you would read the thread but you might have actually considered reading the quoted... AoE cap at 6 above pre 1.6 and AoE cap at 60 above post 1.6, which absolutely killed performance in Cyrodiil.
..because ...well ....cap went from 6 to 60.

So how much traffic (server client updates) do you think you will generate with NO CAP on AoE targets ?
Especially considering the bigger the group the greater you can multiply the AoE radius ?

I am not just talking about that 24 man group you are targetting but the other 50 or so players standing on the flag that aren't actually in that ball group you are trying to kill....but just ...you know ...fighting ..because keep.

I take it that's why you want NO CAP rather than a 24 man cap @ 100%.

Um.....No

This game has been laggy ever since they announced AOE caps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2BqTrX8zVk

This is pre 1.6....

You may notice Siege and my abilities aren't going off...That's because the server is bloody lagged to hell and back...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z80NOqSLx94

Now go to 18:45 in this video

This is back when Fragmented Shield with pretty anti zerg ball... Basically you could hit 6 people with your Frag Shield; and it could be knocked off on those 6 people..and each of those 6 people would set off an pbae nuke that could hit 6 people....So just spamming it meant that Zerg Balls could eat it pretty hard...Notice how no lag happens despite there being a fairly large stacked group running up the stairs to bomb us...That's because they bloody instant died.

So what you are saying is there was lag even with 6 player caps.
We know this. And many of the PVP aoe skills were way above 6 anyway.
Video 1.

With Video 2 you say dead people don't create server client traffic.
To which I say....provided they are dead...which means you want 1 shot ability.
You have just proven that even with 1 shot abilities... Lag still existed.

Your way = More lag + OP 1 shot skills & pray you kill people.
My way = No lag + No 1 shot + NO OP skills.

Jitterbug

1 faction
2 players
singing kumbayah

Rune_Relic

Jitterbug wrote: »

1 faction
2 players
singing kumbayah

Yeah...exactly.
I would rather have lag free 1000 players x 3 faction with an AoE cap of 2.....then the lagdeath we have at the moment with 3 x 30 player ball group duking it out with 60 player AoE Cap.