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Strenght and weakness Dk and templar pvp
Hi everyone, I would like to know the strenght and the weakness of the templar and Dk stamina??
0
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AverageJo3Gam3r✭✭✭✭✭with both you'll mainly be using weapon skills for stam builds. Templars have healing skills and DKs have tanking skills and good DoT skills. So it's really what you prefer. I liked the DK ultimates so I went DK.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual4 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Knew I was missing something lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
0 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.
I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DKs and Temps have no strength in PvP and ZOS refuses to do anything about it.3 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well they used to be the classes that focused on survival but zos nerfed all of those mechanics, so have fun with that2013
rip decibel4 -
You said that but i see a lot of Dk stamina in cyrodill and they play very agressive and its work they are very nice0
-
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.
I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.
So basically there shouldn't be a single ultimate in the game for sorc/temp/nb that is physical damage? So none of them benefit from mighty?
Magicka is already well ahead stam in just about everything. More damage, more survivability , more sustain, more utility, more defence, higher dps4 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.
I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.
So basically there shouldn't be a single ultimate in the game for sorc/temp/nb that is physical damage? So none of them benefit from mighty?
Magicka is already well ahead stam in just about everything. More damage, more survivability , more sustain, more utility, more defence, higher dps
Said it before I could.
The weapon lines absolutely NEED ultimates.4 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.
I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.
So basically there shouldn't be a single ultimate in the game for sorc/temp/nb that is physical damage? So none of them benefit from mighty?
Magicka is already well ahead stam in just about everything. More damage, more survivability , more sustain, more utility, more defence, higher dps
Magicka has 3 main forms of CP mitigation (not including spell resistance and crit resistance.).
Physical has only (1); armor value.
Magicka user cannot stack the amount of spell dmg the way a stamina user can stack weapon dmg. That plus CP mitigation is an argument that stamina overshadows magic for pvp for dmg.
Magicka builds have better options for sustain. Destro and Resto staffs trade dmg for better utility. Therefore magic builds rely on class skills for main dmg (varies). Makes sense for those skill lines to be magicka based instead of physical (also I don't see the logic in some of the animations showing elemental/magic effects but deal physical dmg. Take flight is only one that makes sense.)
Offering ultimates to a skill that anyone can pick up, will devalue the aspect of unique classes. Yes stamina build should have a certain advantage over magicka and tbh they have it now plus extra incentives to never go magicka ever again (for pvp.)
So unless we thought about the balancing through all the permutations, its probably best to leave weapon lines as flexible options than one-stop shops.
Summary:
Magicka: strong utility, low overall dmg, powerful ultimates, group oriented healing.
Stamina: extremely powerful unmitigated dmg, spamable dmg skills, weak ultimates, sustain tied to break-free/block/dodge/run, powerful self heals.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.
I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.
So basically there shouldn't be a single ultimate in the game for sorc/temp/nb that is physical damage? So none of them benefit from mighty?
Magicka is already well ahead stam in just about everything. More damage, more survivability , more sustain, more utility, more defence, higher dps
Magicka has 3 main forms of CP mitigation (not including spell resistance and crit resistance.).
Physical has only (1); armor value.
Magicka user cannot stack the amount of spell dmg the way a stamina user can stack weapon dmg. That plus CP mitigation is an argument that stamina overshadows magic for pvp for dmg.
Magicka builds have better options for sustain. Destro and Resto staffs trade dmg for better utility. Therefore magic builds rely on class skills for main dmg (varies). Makes sense for those skill lines to be magicka based instead of physical (also I don't see the logic in some of the animations showing elemental/magic effects but deal physical dmg. Take flight is only one that makes sense.)
Offering ultimates to a skill that anyone can pick up, will devalue the aspect of unique classes. Yes stamina build should have a certain advantage over magicka and tbh they have it now plus extra incentives to never go magicka ever again (for pvp.)
So unless we thought about the balancing through all the permutations, its probably best to leave weapon lines as flexible options than one-stop shops.
Summary:
Magicka: strong utility, low overall dmg, powerful ultimates, group oriented healing.
Stamina: extremely powerful unmitigated dmg, spamable dmg skills, weak ultimates, sustain tied to break-free/block/dodge/run, powerful self heals.
You missed vital points
Most magicka builds run around with around 30-40% penetration, nirnhoned swords on their own give 18% AND they give us a big boost to our spell resistance. My LA breton templar has nearly 30k spell resist, which means basically ALL your stam ultimates will deal less damage to me than to another stam build in medium armor.
You say it's easier to stack weapon damage, but I don't think that's true anymore, lots of magicka builds are running around with 4300-4500 spell power and 44k magicka . Some of the best Stamina builds like alcasts stamplar have 38k stam and 4300 weapon power. Ontop of that magicka builds have penetration
Also take alcasts stamplar, a very well thought out build that's as good as it can get, he pulls 18-20k dps in dungeons, the equivalent magicka builds are pulling 25k+
He even gave up when he found out that blabafat magicka build was consistantly hitting harder.
The most I've ever had in my death recap from a stam build was a 14k wrecking blow, BUT even with my greater spell resist ice also been hit by a 16k crystal frag .
Stamina also lacks self heals compared to magicka, a templar stam build basically has nothing, i can hit 18k breath of life's in pvp all day long.
So it's
Magicka
Best dps
Great sustain
Best utility
Best defence
Best heals
Stamina
Er can roll dodge a few more times?
5 -
PhatGrimReaper✭✭✭✭✭Weapon lines can have an ultimate when Elemental Ring has it's Radius increased to 12.5m and becomes an AoE execute.Fat Grim Reaper - (m)Dragon Knight AR28
F G R Junior - Templar AR26
This One Had Name Changed - Nightblade AR19
Fat Grim Streaker - Sorcerer AR15
M12-GM - Guardians of the Twelve-GM - Crown Store Heroes - ETU
RÀGE - R.I.P0 -
contact.opiumb16_ESO✭✭✭✭xPHeNiiX_TiiTuS wrote: »The jabs it hard??
yes and no. In theory yes, but :
. you have to have the 4 hits succesfull to deal good dps, which is very hard because ppl move, not like in pve
. it is bugged actually, it do not apply the 140% dmg (and no crit) in front of ppl with shield up0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.
I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.
So basically there shouldn't be a single ultimate in the game for sorc/temp/nb that is physical damage? So none of them benefit from mighty?
Magicka is already well ahead stam in just about everything. More damage, more survivability , more sustain, more utility, more defence, higher dps
Magicka has 3 main forms of CP mitigation (not including spell resistance and crit resistance.).
Physical has only (1); armor value.
Magicka user cannot stack the amount of spell dmg the way a stamina user can stack weapon dmg. That plus CP mitigation is an argument that stamina overshadows magic for pvp for dmg.
Magicka builds have better options for sustain. Destro and Resto staffs trade dmg for better utility. Therefore magic builds rely on class skills for main dmg (varies). Makes sense for those skill lines to be magicka based instead of physical (also I don't see the logic in some of the animations showing elemental/magic effects but deal physical dmg. Take flight is only one that makes sense.)
Offering ultimates to a skill that anyone can pick up, will devalue the aspect of unique classes. Yes stamina build should have a certain advantage over magicka and tbh they have it now plus extra incentives to never go magicka ever again (for pvp.)
So unless we thought about the balancing through all the permutations, its probably best to leave weapon lines as flexible options than one-stop shops.
Summary:
Magicka: strong utility, low overall dmg, powerful ultimates, group oriented healing.
Stamina: extremely powerful unmitigated dmg, spamable dmg skills, weak ultimates, sustain tied to break-free/block/dodge/run, powerful self heals.
You missed vital points
Most magicka builds run around with around 30-40% penetration, nirnhoned swords on their own give 18% AND they give us a big boost to our spell resistance. My LA breton templar has nearly 30k spell resist, which means basically ALL your stam ultimates will deal less damage to me than to another stam build in medium armor.
You say it's easier to stack weapon damage, but I don't think that's true anymore, lots of magicka builds are running around with 4300-4500 spell power and 44k magicka . Some of the best Stamina builds like alcasts stamplar have 38k stam and 4300 weapon power. Ontop of that magicka builds have penetration
Also take alcasts stamplar, a very well thought out build that's as good as it can get, he pulls 18-20k dps in dungeons, the equivalent magicka builds are pulling 25k+
He even gave up when he found out that blabafat magicka build was consistantly hitting harder.
The most I've ever had in my death recap from a stam build was a 14k wrecking blow, BUT even with my greater spell resist ice also been hit by a 16k crystal frag .
Stamina also lacks self heals compared to magicka, a templar stam build basically has nothing, i can hit 18k breath of life's in pvp all day long.
So it's
Magicka
Best dps
Great sustain
Best utility
Best defence
Best heals
Stamina
Er can roll dodge a few more times?
In pve, magicka is king, not denying that.
In pvp, stamina is currently king; the burst is unreal lol.
(90% of my deaths are from stamina nightblades with stamina templars/DKs.)
Magicka builds for pvp have to run obsurdly high penetration, max magicka, dual swords with nirn, light armor to compete with a 2h wb med armor stamina build. That means splitting CP between two trees to balance adding crit/penetration and magic dmg. Stam users get to dump points into one tree, have passives in that same tree, and still get the magic dmg mitigation in warrior trees. Also running light armor means, your physical dmg mitigation is really low, but its our only option if we want burst dps and sustain.
16k crystal frag death? Mine only hit me for 5-9k. You need to invest in crit defense, magicka CP mitigation and purge their curse
. There should never be a reason to get hit by that skill.
Also it should be noted, sorc is the magicka dps class, just like nb is the stamina dps class (meaning it arguably has better stamina skill morphs). But this means a sorc has no healing without Resto staff. Reduce his crit dmg on you and you reduce his only class heal.
With all that burst dps potential, you have no reason to have a strong healing class skill (have to use Resto staff and make bar sacrifices only supporting my stance that weapon lines are extra utility therefore should not receive an ultimate.). Healing as a stam build, you have vigor and rally both fixed to properly scale off weapon crit (hint you get a boost via champion points in the same tree you stack physical dmg. ). And one of those heals is a burst heal with a dmg buff added to it.
That is my argument why stam is more OP than magicka. The trade offs to achieve better dps is also its weakness to physical attacks. If it wasn't OP against magicka, more people outside sorc would roll it.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »xPHeNiiX_TiiTuS wrote: »The jabs it hard??
yes and no. In theory yes, but :
. you have to have the 4 hits succesfull to deal good dps, which is very hard because ppl move, not like in pve
. it is bugged actually, it do not apply the 140% dmg (and no crit) in front of ppl with shield up
Jabs is better when you can CC your enemy.
Dark flare-toppling charge-jabs is a classic combo.
140%dmg bug/miscode, is being fixed for next patch. Start practicing landing your jabs
. Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
contact.opiumb16_ESO✭✭✭✭contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »xPHeNiiX_TiiTuS wrote: »The jabs it hard??
yes and no. In theory yes, but :
. you have to have the 4 hits succesfull to deal good dps, which is very hard because ppl move, not like in pve
. it is bugged actually, it do not apply the 140% dmg (and no crit) in front of ppl with shield up
Jabs is better when you can CC your enemy.
Dark flare-toppling charge-jabs is a classic combo.
140%dmg bug/miscode, is being fixed for next patch. Start practicing landing your jabs.
... or not. You know, the famous zos "work as intended".
1 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »xPHeNiiX_TiiTuS wrote: »The jabs it hard??
yes and no. In theory yes, but :
. you have to have the 4 hits succesfull to deal good dps, which is very hard because ppl move, not like in pve
. it is bugged actually, it do not apply the 140% dmg (and no crit) in front of ppl with shield up
Jabs is better when you can CC your enemy.
Dark flare-toppling charge-jabs is a classic combo.
140%dmg bug/miscode, is being fixed for next patch. Start practicing landing your jabs.
Where have they said that?
0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.
I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.
So basically there shouldn't be a single ultimate in the game for sorc/temp/nb that is physical damage? So none of them benefit from mighty?
Magicka is already well ahead stam in just about everything. More damage, more survivability , more sustain, more utility, more defence, higher dps
Magicka has 3 main forms of CP mitigation (not including spell resistance and crit resistance.).
Physical has only (1); armor value.
Magicka user cannot stack the amount of spell dmg the way a stamina user can stack weapon dmg. That plus CP mitigation is an argument that stamina overshadows magic for pvp for dmg.
Magicka builds have better options for sustain. Destro and Resto staffs trade dmg for better utility. Therefore magic builds rely on class skills for main dmg (varies). Makes sense for those skill lines to be magicka based instead of physical (also I don't see the logic in some of the animations showing elemental/magic effects but deal physical dmg. Take flight is only one that makes sense.)
Offering ultimates to a skill that anyone can pick up, will devalue the aspect of unique classes. Yes stamina build should have a certain advantage over magicka and tbh they have it now plus extra incentives to never go magicka ever again (for pvp.)
So unless we thought about the balancing through all the permutations, its probably best to leave weapon lines as flexible options than one-stop shops.
Summary:
Magicka: strong utility, low overall dmg, powerful ultimates, group oriented healing.
Stamina: extremely powerful unmitigated dmg, spamable dmg skills, weak ultimates, sustain tied to break-free/block/dodge/run, powerful self heals.
You missed vital points
Most magicka builds run around with around 30-40% penetration, nirnhoned swords on their own give 18% AND they give us a big boost to our spell resistance. My LA breton templar has nearly 30k spell resist, which means basically ALL your stam ultimates will deal less damage to me than to another stam build in medium armor.
You say it's easier to stack weapon damage, but I don't think that's true anymore, lots of magicka builds are running around with 4300-4500 spell power and 44k magicka . Some of the best Stamina builds like alcasts stamplar have 38k stam and 4300 weapon power. Ontop of that magicka builds have penetration
Also take alcasts stamplar, a very well thought out build that's as good as it can get, he pulls 18-20k dps in dungeons, the equivalent magicka builds are pulling 25k+
He even gave up when he found out that blabafat magicka build was consistantly hitting harder.
The most I've ever had in my death recap from a stam build was a 14k wrecking blow, BUT even with my greater spell resist ice also been hit by a 16k crystal frag .
Stamina also lacks self heals compared to magicka, a templar stam build basically has nothing, i can hit 18k breath of life's in pvp all day long.
So it's
Magicka
Best dps
Great sustain
Best utility
Best defence
Best heals
Stamina
Er can roll dodge a few more times?
In pve, magicka is king, not denying that.
In pvp, stamina is currently king; the burst is unreal lol.
(90% of my deaths are from stamina nightblades with stamina templars/DKs.)
Magicka builds for pvp have to run obsurdly high penetration, max magicka, dual swords with nirn, light armor to compete with a 2h wb med armor stamina build. That means splitting CP between two trees to balance adding crit/penetration and magic dmg. Stam users get to dump points into one tree, have passives in that same tree, and still get the magic dmg mitigation in warrior trees. Also running light armor means, your physical dmg mitigation is really low, but its our only option if we want burst dps and sustain.
16k crystal frag death? Mine only hit me for 5-9k. You need to invest in crit defense, magicka CP mitigation and purge their curse. There should never be a reason to get hit by that skill.
Also it should be noted, sorc is the magicka dps class, just like nb is the stamina dps class (meaning it arguably has better stamina skill morphs). But this means a sorc has no healing without Resto staff. Reduce his crit dmg on you and you reduce his only class heal.
With all that burst dps potential, you have no reason to have a strong healing class skill (have to use Resto staff and make bar sacrifices only supporting my stance that weapon lines are extra utility therefore should not receive an ultimate.). Healing as a stam build, you have vigor and rally both fixed to properly scale off weapon crit (hint you get a boost via champion points in the same tree you stack physical dmg. ). And one of those heals is a burst heal with a dmg buff added to it.
That is my argument why stam is more OP than magicka. The trade offs to achieve better dps is also its weakness to physical attacks. If it wasn't OP against magicka, more people outside sorc would roll it.
The 14k crystal frag was with 30k spell resist and 70 points into reduction of magic damage.
Stam templar has no more burst than magicka templar, infact they have less
As said about
Darkflare, javelin, toppling, sweeps.
All landing within 1 second, hitting for upwards of 20k damage in pvp.0 -
Morozov✭✭✭xPHeNiiX_TiiTuS wrote: »You said that but i see a lot of Dk stamina in cyrodill and they play very agressive and its work they are very nice
stam DK can be one of the better ganker classes atm. igneous weapons, physical damage ulti. not too shabby! Im going stam till I can write ZOS enough love-letters to have them do something about magicka DK'sAD
Victorem
PC - NA - AZ
Vr 16: Morozov - DK
Vr 1: Zephyr Grimm - Sorc
Vr 5: Sad_Bunnie - Templar
23: Repressed-Canadian-Rage - NB
Voted "Most likely to squirrel off the crown" PC-NA2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Templar :
-good stam class skills (jabs and jav and the one in dawns wrath that reduces armor.)
- healings passives do not work with rally/vigor.
- lack of movement means you'll be using rapids or bow passive.
DK:
- lack of dedicated stam spamable skill and charge (needs two hand)
- no mobility (similar to Templar
- take flight only ultimate to scale off physical dmg Champion points!!!!! (Meaning its physical dmg)
Funny that that's the ONLY Damm ultimate in the game that's physical damage. Even soul harvest or skills where you're actually using a weapon etc are all magic damage.
Well the only upside is that my harness magicka will absorb them all
All the more reason to add weapon line ultimate's.
I disagree. The weapon class lines add flexibility in your builds, whereas class skills offer distinct flavors.
Adding ultimates to stam weapon lines would raise the bar in favor of stamina further.
So basically there shouldn't be a single ultimate in the game for sorc/temp/nb that is physical damage? So none of them benefit from mighty?
Magicka is already well ahead stam in just about everything. More damage, more survivability , more sustain, more utility, more defence, higher dps
Magicka has 3 main forms of CP mitigation (not including spell resistance and crit resistance.).
Physical has only (1); armor value.
Magicka user cannot stack the amount of spell dmg the way a stamina user can stack weapon dmg. That plus CP mitigation is an argument that stamina overshadows magic for pvp for dmg.
Magicka builds have better options for sustain. Destro and Resto staffs trade dmg for better utility. Therefore magic builds rely on class skills for main dmg (varies). Makes sense for those skill lines to be magicka based instead of physical (also I don't see the logic in some of the animations showing elemental/magic effects but deal physical dmg. Take flight is only one that makes sense.)
Offering ultimates to a skill that anyone can pick up, will devalue the aspect of unique classes. Yes stamina build should have a certain advantage over magicka and tbh they have it now plus extra incentives to never go magicka ever again (for pvp.)
So unless we thought about the balancing through all the permutations, its probably best to leave weapon lines as flexible options than one-stop shops.
Summary:
Magicka: strong utility, low overall dmg, powerful ultimates, group oriented healing.
Stamina: extremely powerful unmitigated dmg, spamable dmg skills, weak ultimates, sustain tied to break-free/block/dodge/run, powerful self heals.
You missed vital points
Most magicka builds run around with around 30-40% penetration, nirnhoned swords on their own give 18% AND they give us a big boost to our spell resistance. My LA breton templar has nearly 30k spell resist, which means basically ALL your stam ultimates will deal less damage to me than to another stam build in medium armor.
You say it's easier to stack weapon damage, but I don't think that's true anymore, lots of magicka builds are running around with 4300-4500 spell power and 44k magicka . Some of the best Stamina builds like alcasts stamplar have 38k stam and 4300 weapon power. Ontop of that magicka builds have penetration
Also take alcasts stamplar, a very well thought out build that's as good as it can get, he pulls 18-20k dps in dungeons, the equivalent magicka builds are pulling 25k+
He even gave up when he found out that blabafat magicka build was consistantly hitting harder.
The most I've ever had in my death recap from a stam build was a 14k wrecking blow, BUT even with my greater spell resist ice also been hit by a 16k crystal frag .
Stamina also lacks self heals compared to magicka, a templar stam build basically has nothing, i can hit 18k breath of life's in pvp all day long.
So it's
Magicka
Best dps
Great sustain
Best utility
Best defence
Best heals
Stamina
Er can roll dodge a few more times?
In pve, magicka is king, not denying that.
In pvp, stamina is currently king; the burst is unreal lol.
(90% of my deaths are from stamina nightblades with stamina templars/DKs.)
Magicka builds for pvp have to run obsurdly high penetration, max magicka, dual swords with nirn, light armor to compete with a 2h wb med armor stamina build. That means splitting CP between two trees to balance adding crit/penetration and magic dmg. Stam users get to dump points into one tree, have passives in that same tree, and still get the magic dmg mitigation in warrior trees. Also running light armor means, your physical dmg mitigation is really low, but its our only option if we want burst dps and sustain.
16k crystal frag death? Mine only hit me for 5-9k. You need to invest in crit defense, magicka CP mitigation and purge their curse. There should never be a reason to get hit by that skill.
Also it should be noted, sorc is the magicka dps class, just like nb is the stamina dps class (meaning it arguably has better stamina skill morphs). But this means a sorc has no healing without Resto staff. Reduce his crit dmg on you and you reduce his only class heal.
With all that burst dps potential, you have no reason to have a strong healing class skill (have to use Resto staff and make bar sacrifices only supporting my stance that weapon lines are extra utility therefore should not receive an ultimate.). Healing as a stam build, you have vigor and rally both fixed to properly scale off weapon crit (hint you get a boost via champion points in the same tree you stack physical dmg. ). And one of those heals is a burst heal with a dmg buff added to it.
That is my argument why stam is more OP than magicka. The trade offs to achieve better dps is also its weakness to physical attacks. If it wasn't OP against magicka, more people outside sorc would roll it.
The 14k crystal frag was with 30k spell resist and 70 points into reduction of magic damage.
Stam templar has no more burst than magicka templar, infact they have less
As said about
Darkflare, javelin, toppling, sweeps.
All landing within 1 second, hitting for upwards of 20k damage in pvp.
14k is not possible for me, I'm at 20-23k spell resistance and 20 equal in magic, elemental, DOT, and crit mitigation. For the mitigation CP, there's diminished returns, so full stack of all that anti-magic might be hurting you. Throw some into crit resistance and check the crystal frag number.
Dark flare rotation depends on if the enemy isn't smart enough to dodge roll at first sight of dark flare. Jav is a great skill (stamplar's version should put out more dmg since its got penetration.). Toppling is voided by jav for cc; also bugged to not fire on non level ground.
Sweeps = channel and if I'm not mistaken is a DOT. Combine DOT mitigation with magic mitigation and you got a skill that hitting for less than a thousand per hit. Stamplar version only has to worry about armor and dot foritifation. I'm reporting 3k -2k per hit on me versus stam templars. That's vastly superior to my 1.5k sweeps dmg per hit on them.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭I'm going to have to disagree, for one I don't think sweeps is a DOT as each hit can proc certain things (such as imperial healing passive) and multiple things that DOTS don't proc.
My puncturing sweeps hits harder than my biting jabs on my stamplar, as well as healing me
Javelin does more damage on magicka morph, it has no penetration on stam morph it just adds a knockback, where as magicka version adds 40% damage based on range.
Dark flare works well for me, as toppling charge always lands thanks to dark flares travel time both land at exactly the same time.
Not sure what you mean about toppling not firing, it works for me regardless if the enemy is above or below me, it just requires a path to travel, ambush is the only gap closer that ignores these mechanics.
Maybe it's your build, but my sweeps hits far harder than 1.5k, normally 3 casts = dead enemy. Are you using nirnhoned? That plus light armor passives plus CP passives means most magicka users are running around with 40%+ spell penetration.
Stamina templars are the very worst of pvp class right now, even PVE they are putting out far lower dps numbers than their magicka counter parts.
When a templar goes stamina you give up all self healing, you also have the single weakest healing recieved build, for instance other classes like DK have boosts to self healing, a templar has nothing.
You can praise vigor, but when you're tooltip is 11k and you're getting a 8k heal, compared to a magicka build getting 18k breath of life in pvp, it seems silly to go stam, you have no survivability in comparison.1 -
Van_0S✭✭✭✭✭So, I guess hybrid build is the solution for stamplars, right?
Like 2 pieces of light and the rest medium with mage light.0 -
Kas✭✭✭✭✭templar's strength is his flexibility. you can heal, dps, provide unique stamina-providing support through repentance and shards and, much more importantly, you have by far the easiest time of deciding just how much heal/support and how much dd you want to be. no other class can readjust the balance on a per-fight basis. on top of that, they make great money-farmers at the moment. they clear sewers very easily and quickly and that's still one of the best places to make money.
dk's strength is that they make great group leaders. both, staina and magicka builds are fairly tanky and, most importantly, create action around themselves in a rather static position (much beter tahn a jumpy NB, a blinky mage. Talons around a crown are much easier to use than a mages root in front of a crown that muigh be turnign around anytime soon). especially the otherwise weaker magicka dk is still THE BEST leader, imho. Charge in, use talons, put down cinder storm and maybe drop a banner and your crate a much better fixpoint than any other class. this works for your typical brainless blob or for a spread-out group that only rushes together for a single impact.
additionally, dk's are actually the most effective healers in a certain sense. their igneous shield allows their healing springs or vigor to become the game's strongest AoE heals for both, magicka and stamina. however, they are absolutely not flexible in that regard and don't have the directed burst heal that templar's BoL provides.
both classes share their two core weaknesses:
1) they lack mobility, andcannot pick fights. this makes solo play much harder than for sorcs or nbs.
2) they do not have single super-strong key abilities. hardended ward, cloak and surprise attack and frags are all insane in their own regard. key dk and templar spells are just not as universal. sweeps are awesome dps and self-heal, but against damage sheilds their are total crap. scales are awesome IF your enemy uses rojectiles but not needed otherwise. BoL is the easiest to use and probably best healign spell in the game - however, selfhealing without a secondary effect usually means playing a losing game in 1v1 or 1vX unless you can heal much more than one enemy attack - which is hard going against a well-equipped enemy. keep in mind that while you cast BoL, your enemy might regenerate lots of stamina or even health (e.g. from vigor/momentum or from a healing ward that expires)
in summary, i love both classes and they actually make a decent team even. playing either while completely solo is possible but currently yould be well condiered hard-mode.
PS: While stamina templars can kill stuff and win fights, they are just worse than stamina NBs in pretty uch every regard and I would really not recommend the class because of thatEdited by Kas on November 27, 2015 2:49PM@bbu - AD/EU
Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
+ many others4
