Gap closer 1.5 second root/stuns

Docmandu

Think they will ever find a better solution for the skills to "connect" than that crap? Another tool that makes the all mighty zerg ball better.. get a few ambush/crit rush/invasion/... spamming monkeys and you're sure of pinning some people down for your ball to swallow them.

Retreating maneuver... yeah right... /facepalm

RoamingRiverElk

This. So much.

Asmael

I've been sitting once in the same spot for 5 consecutive seconds with Rapids and CC immunity up, because... charges. Lots of them.

That's just how bad this mechanic is.

Draxys

hahaha you tried so hard to fit in some complaining about your buzzwords "ball groups" and "monkeys" instead of just talking about the issue. Lolz.

I do agree though, freezing someone because an enemy uses a gap closer is poor design because they couldn't figure how to balance streak.

FENGRUSH

Yea doesnt matter if its 20 people or 3 people. This becomes a real issue if youre in a 1v3 for example and a NB can spam ambush point blank over and over. Its an absolute joke. And the maddening part is theyre actually being very effective outside of intended game mechanics while being complete idiots. Given that however - ZOS probably is pleasantly surprised they have unintentionally buffed casuals and never change it now.

VelociousLegend

From a programming perspective, it seems like a slap on fix that forces the target to freeze while the skill's animation launches toward the target; keeping the landing spot fixed for 1.5 seconds. There has to be a better implementation for gap closing mechanics.

Something that allows for independent movement (target and attacker) while still landing the gap closing attack - dynamic vectors for example. You have the targets movement, just apply the target movement changes to the gap closing vector (distance and angle). Surely, there are edge cases to consider, but if done correctly it would fix this game mechanic.

Xeven

VelociousLegend wrote:

From a programming perspective, it seems like a slap on fix that forces the target to freeze while the skill's animation launches toward the target; keeping the landing spot fixed for 1.5 seconds. There has to be a better implementation for gap closing mechanics.

Something that allows for independent movement (target and attacker) while still landing the gap closing attack - dynamic vectors for example. You have the targets movement, just apply the target movement changes to the gap closing vector (distance and angle). Surely, there are edge cases to consider, but if done correctly it would fix this game mechanic.

I think they're trying not to add more LOS checks. What if the target puts a tree between himself and the attacker mid charge?

The gap between the attacker and where the target was at cast time should be closed. It shouldn't be a heat seeking/target rooting missile. If the target moves, tough s*** try again. The root needs to be removed from all gap closers. Giving Ambush a minimum range is just a bandaid over a bigger problem.

VelociousLegend

Like I said there will need to be consideration for edge cases - LOS is one. Same could be said if a sorc streaks away just after an critical rush (something like 0.5 second); the critical rush could potentially travel the max distance of the skill plus the distance of the sorc's streak resulting in an increase the gap closing distance greater than that in the tooltip.

The solution can't be to just freeze the target player for 1.5 seconds nor changing the gap closing abilities. Just fix the game mechanic - just takes effect and some thought on the part of ZOS.

Docmandu

ESO can't be the only game with gap closers.. wonder how the other games do it. (imho too many gap closers in ESO, one of the reasons why high DPS squishy caster that needs to keep his distance, doesn't work in this game.. instead we have high DPS face tank casters... but that's a different story)

Ara_Valleria

I think changing the way gap closers work will require a lot of work and knowing zos...they aren't going to be addressing this issue anytime within the next 1-2years

Lava_Croft

Hey a zerg, let's quickly move out of the way.

Nope.

Annoying++

Stikato

Didn't gap closers work ok before they added this?

I used to use Invasion and Crit rush right after launch and can't remember any problems.

Docmandu

Stikato wrote: »

Didn't gap closers work ok before they added this?

I used to use Invasion and Crit rush right after launch and can't remember any problems.

From what I've read on the forums, this was something that was changed before launch.. during beta testing.

Lucky28

so this garbage was intentional. are you kidding me?. This past day i've had this crap spammed on me till i died and i couldn't do anything to get out of it (no dodge roll, no streak, no shield, no frag nothing) This is not good gameplay thought it was a bug it's repulsive to find out it's intentional.

Tankqull

Docmandu wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Didn't gap closers work ok before they added this?

I used to use Invasion and Crit rush right after launch and can't remember any problems.

From what I've read on the forums, this was something that was changed before launch.. during beta testing.

nope it was added far after beta times in 1.3 to 1.5 (don´t nail me on the exact patch)

Draxys

Lucky28 wrote: »

so this garbage was intentional. are you kidding me?. This past day i've had this crap spammed on me till i died and i couldn't do anything to get out of it (no dodge roll, no streak, no shield, no frag nothing) This is not good gameplay thought it was a bug it's repulsive to find out it's intentional.

Well then you'll also be delighted to know (if you don't already =P) that the origin of the horrific lag and performance loss in pvp was from an intentional change that they refuse to revert.

Lucky28

Draxys wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

so this garbage was intentional. are you kidding me?. This past day i've had this crap spammed on me till i died and i couldn't do anything to get out of it (no dodge roll, no streak, no shield, no frag nothing) This is not good gameplay thought it was a bug it's repulsive to find out it's intentional.

Well then you'll also be delighted to know (if you don't already =P) that the origin of the horrific lag and performance loss in pvp was from an intentional change that they refuse to revert.

The AOE cap, yeah. seems they're dead set on making PvP less enjoyable rather than improving it.

Kutsuu

There was indeed a point when gap closers did not cause the hidden immobilize that they do now. At that time, the complaint was that gap closers would often close only part of the gap. During travel time, the opponent would move further away and you'd come up short. The gap closers with CC such as invasion would often leave the opponent stunned too far away for you to capitalize on the CC. I believe the main complaint, though, was the Sorcs blinking away faster than your gap closer could travel resulting in them always escaping even if a player was spamming a gap closer.

However the solution has opened an even bigger can of worms where an outnumbered player can be permanently locked down by 1-2 players spamming gap closers while their friends make the kill.

First I think soft CCs should have a short immunity timer - you shouldn't be able to permanently immobilize or snare someone. Even with that, I don't think all gap closers needed this CC. They could have been reworked to both "follow" the target during travel time and travel faster so you'd at least land closer to the target.

Derra

Draxys wrote: »

hahaha you tried so hard to fit in some complaining about your buzzwords "ball groups" and "monkeys" instead of just talking about the issue. Lolz.

I do agree though, freezing someone because an enemy uses a gap closer is poor design because they couldn't figure how to balance streak.

Not that it helped anything but f*cked up everyone apart from sorcs much more.

Alucardo

Using stampede now instead of crit rush. Epic gap closing stun + good snare. The troll is real.

Lucky28

Derra wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

hahaha you tried so hard to fit in some complaining about your buzzwords "ball groups" and "monkeys" instead of just talking about the issue. Lolz.

I do agree though, freezing someone because an enemy uses a gap closer is poor design because they couldn't figure how to balance streak.

Not that it helped anything but f*cked up everyone apart from sorcs much more.

No because now we can't even escape the nightblade ambush *** (but then, no one is escaping that *** ever again so long as this change sticks). I don't know, i can't play in this. all i do is die every five seconds because my character is permanently frozen from being spammed with gap closers, this is just bad pure and simple.

Kutsuu

Docmandu wrote: »

ESO can't be the only game with gap closers.. wonder how the other games do it. (imho too many gap closers in ESO, one of the reasons why high DPS squishy caster that needs to keep his distance, doesn't work in this game.. instead we have high DPS face tank casters... but that's a different story)

I wouldn't say it's the NUMBER of gap closers that is the main difference with this game. It's the lack of cooldowns on them.

Draxys

Lucky28 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

so this garbage was intentional. are you kidding me?. This past day i've had this crap spammed on me till i died and i couldn't do anything to get out of it (no dodge roll, no streak, no shield, no frag nothing) This is not good gameplay thought it was a bug it's repulsive to find out it's intentional.

Well then you'll also be delighted to know (if you don't already =P) that the origin of the horrific lag and performance loss in pvp was from an intentional change that they refuse to revert.

The AOE cap, yeah. seems they're dead set on making PvP less enjoyable rather than improving it.

Actually was talking about the new lighting and anti botting code that were added with 1.2, but capping what already wasn't didn't help

RinaldoGandolphi

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Yea doesnt matter if its 20 people or 3 people. This becomes a real issue if youre in a 1v3 for example and a NB can spam ambush point blank over and over. Its an absolute joke. And the maddening part is theyre actually being very effective outside of intended game mechanics while being complete idiots. Given that however - ZOS probably is pleasantly surprised they have unintentionally buffed casuals and never change it now.

truth

Lucky28

Draxys wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

so this garbage was intentional. are you kidding me?. This past day i've had this crap spammed on me till i died and i couldn't do anything to get out of it (no dodge roll, no streak, no shield, no frag nothing) This is not good gameplay thought it was a bug it's repulsive to find out it's intentional.

Well then you'll also be delighted to know (if you don't already =P) that the origin of the horrific lag and performance loss in pvp was from an intentional change that they refuse to revert.

The AOE cap, yeah. seems they're dead set on making PvP less enjoyable rather than improving it.

Actually was talking about the new lighting and anti botting code that were added with 1.2, but capping what already wasn't didn't help

Yeah, the Lighting patch is one thing. isn't the anti-botting patch a neccissary evil tho. I mean, all this time i've been playing ESO i've yet to see a single bot.....

zornyan

It's getting boring fast.

Every time I go into cyrodil atm it's either

Huge red or yellow zerg, literally 3 of us v 20+ reds or yellows


Ambush spam leaving me perma stunned

Wrecking blow spam leaving me perma CC.

I just go play pve now, far less bugs

Wollust

Lucky28 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

so this garbage was intentional. are you kidding me?. This past day i've had this crap spammed on me till i died and i couldn't do anything to get out of it (no dodge roll, no streak, no shield, no frag nothing) This is not good gameplay thought it was a bug it's repulsive to find out it's intentional.

Well then you'll also be delighted to know (if you don't already =P) that the origin of the horrific lag and performance loss in pvp was from an intentional change that they refuse to revert.

The AOE cap, yeah. seems they're dead set on making PvP less enjoyable rather than improving it.

Actually was talking about the new lighting and anti botting code that were added with 1.2, but capping what already wasn't didn't help

Yeah, the Lighting patch is one thing. isn't the anti-botting patch a neccissary evil tho. I mean, all this time i've been playing ESO i've yet to see a single bot.....

You definitely weren't here when the game launched then. I remember fairly well how I tried to kill some delve boss and there were bots just waiting for it to spawn. Oh the frustration was real for a poor nooby like myself. And well, they got rid of it successfully. Well done. Only problem is that the performance has gone to crap since back then.

Stx

This game will always be imbalanced as long as there are no cooldowns on abilities. It's really that simple.

The best idea I can think of right now is that there should be an internal cooldown on the root, like 6 seconds at least.

Runkorko

Draxys wrote: »

hahaha you tried so hard to fit in some complaining about your buzzwords "ball groups" and "monkeys" instead of just talking about the issue. Lolz.

I do agree though, freezing someone because an enemy uses a gap closer is poor design because they couldn't figure how to balance streak.

Using gap closer is not the problem here. Problem is the spam, Players use it but monkeys spam it. Docmandu is damn right no mather how loud you "hahaha " Increase cost for 4 second after use wont fix the problem, because this is not 1v1 but if they make skills like mist form and rapid give you TRUE root slow etc imunity will be nice.

GreenSoup2HoT

You could reduce the gap closer range. This would help some of the problem. You can have a distance to work with when running away. Before i even realize the group ahead of me are all enemy's.... they are in gap closer range. It dosent make sense lunging that far.

Galalin

Xeven wrote: »

BigCDawg wrote: »

From a programming perspective, it seems like a slap on fix that forces the target to freeze while the skill's animation launches toward the target; keeping the landing spot fixed for 1.5 seconds. There has to be a better implementation for gap closing mechanics.

Something that allows for independent movement (target and attacker) while still landing the gap closing attack - dynamic vectors for example. You have the targets movement, just apply the target movement changes to the gap closing vector (distance and angle). Surely, there are edge cases to consider, but if done correctly it would fix this game mechanic.

I think they're trying not to add more LOS checks. What if the target puts a tree between himself and the attacker mid charge?

The gap between the attacker and where the target was at cast time should be closed. It shouldn't be a heat seeking/target rooting missile. If the target moves, tough s*** try again. The root needs to be removed from all gap closers. Giving Ambush a minimum range is just a bandaid over a bigger problem.

I would have to disagree... putting a min range on ambush would be just whats needed. I understand as a sorc who bolts around alot why you would want the entire mechanic gone but if a gap closer has a min range it cannot be spammed which is all that needs to be done... without it sorcs are back to the bolt bolt bolt bolt with no counter again and thats a far worse option. As long as its not spammable i don't feel its a problem. The only other thing i would like to see is getting rid of the ability lock from it but the root must stay

DK SCRUB OUT