ZOS, something seems off.. my PVP rant for the day!

Hammy01

Let me preface this by saying.. I play on XBOX 1 EU, I am vet 7 and just turned off battle leveling today due to magick regen bug. With my current build and food buffs (plus a few Cyrodiil buffs) I am sitting around 24k Mag, 26K Health, 8.5k Stam.

Now for my rant / vent...

Lately I have noticed that I can hardly sprint 20 meters before I run out of Stam... I tested this today at Roebek keep, I sprinted from the inner gate door and I ran out of Stam before I even made it to the outer gate door. This by itself is annoying but understandable, however coupled with a few other problems and it becomes a huge pain in the A**. Because I am a magicka Temp and I primarily heal it means I am always stuck in combat thus I cannot mount up, so I have to sprint everywhere but I cannot sprint very far because my stam drains so fast. Once my stam is out I can no longer sprint/block/roll and I am a sitting duck to wrecking blow spammers. This just happened to me tonight. I threw out a couple of heals at a resource and everyone took off on mount while i was doing my best for the first 20 meters to keep up on foot but that ended once I was out of stam and then I got demolished by a NB spamming WB. My death log look like this - Ambush 2500k, WB 3800, WB 5000, WB 9500, WB 9500 (the numbers are not exact but close). I was running radiant magelight so the Ambush did nothing to me and oddly enough the first WB did not knock me down as I think I had just enough stam by then to block once but the following one did knock me down and I was dead before I could get back up.

ZOS, if you are not going to fix the stuck in combat bug from heals then you really need to make Sprinting drain whatever resource is higher (mag or stam) because as it stands stam classes can run the Boston Marathon and not even break a sweat, most times if a Stam users gets caught while sprinting then they still have enough resources left over to do a few roll dodges / blocks to try and turn the fight back into their favor. The best I could probable do is carry a few stam pots with me but this would only be good for maybe a few blocks or roll dodges and then I am back to 0.

Another thing that I have heard and have noticed as well is that CC immunity is broken. As an example, tonight I was knocked down by Crystal Frags and as soon as I got back up I was knocked down by something else (not sure what as we don't have a combat log on XBOX).

Ok rant over for now (sorry but it was bugging me).. hopefull I can get some constructive feedback on this!!


PS. I am curious as to what the average stam cost is for vet level skills vs mag cost of vet level skills? I am guessing that the average magicka pool for a magicka user is the same as a Stam users stam pool right? So if the cost of skills are the same for both mag and stam users then Zos really should change sprint/roll/block to use your highest resource. This way as a Mag user I could better use my Stam for a few Stam skills just like Stam players use their limited Mag on a few magicka skills.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

@Hammy01 that's all magic builds I can out sprint you but it cost me 60% less with Armor passives and traits and I have 3x the stamina pool. So yes I can run twice as far but you can't just run from a fight you need Retreating Maneuvers and stamina pots to get away.

A lot more drains your stamina Attacking, healing, rolling +33% per roll within 5 seconds, blocking drops regeneration to 0, stealth and running.

Never waste your stamina running as a Mage leave enough for a CC break don't block Wrecking Blow CC them while they cast or walk though them. You as a Templar can eat that fight hit get your CC immunity and fight back don't let them keep you on Defense.

As to the healing that just sucks and is why so have so few PvP healers left. You you're in a group that will not wait for you as the healer you need a new group. I know if you mount up in the half second before friendly NPCs spawn you can ride your horse well in combat.

Hope it helps a bit.

Hammy01

I'm going to have to test a few things tomorrow. Prior to today it seemed that I could sprint longer and my stam would regen faster even as a magicka user. But today I turned off battle leveling because I was losing about 500 magicka regen when going into Cyrodiil (see my other post about that here - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/230338/magick-regen-bugged-in-cyrodiil-xbox-1-eu#latest).

With battle leveling off my magicka regen is normal and my magicka is up as well while only taking a small hit to health (about 12 -14k)... but my Stam is way off and the rate it decreases is really fast now.

As for the other stuff, yeah I probably could stand around with the NPC's until I can mount again but I have no idea how long I will be waiting.

I also understand that as a Stam user you will always be able to sprint / block / roll dodge more than I as a magicka user but that is exactly why I am asking for ZOS to consider changing these mechanics to drain whatever resource is your highest stat (IE Mag or Stam). For ZOS to think it is fine for a magicka user to use a Stam based skill such as rapid maneuver that uses up almost 90% of your stam resource seems a little unfair to me, maybe if rapid maneuver had a magicka equivalent then it would not be as bad. Keep in mind that I am a magicka Templar so maybe things are easier for a Mag Sorc or Mag NB (Mag Dk may be in the exact same boat though).

Oh and while I am on the subject of Rapid Maneuver.. why is it that all Assault skill are stam based and all support skills are magicka based? It's like ZOS is trying to pigeonhole us into a certain play style. Why can't there be both Stam and Magicka morphs for both Assault and Support skill lines?

SneaK

Stam or Mag, being stuck in combat sucks.

zornyan

Hammy01 wrote: »

Let me preface this by saying.. I play on XBOX 1 EU, I am vet 7 and just turned off battle leveling today due to magick regen bug. With my current build and food buffs (plus a few Cyrodiil buffs) I am sitting around 24k Mag, 26K Health, 8.5k Stam.

Now for my rant / vent...

Lately I have noticed that I can hardly sprint 20 meters before I run out of Stam... I tested this today at Roebek keep, I sprinted from the inner gate door and I ran out of Stam before I even made it to the outer gate door. This by itself is annoying but understandable, however coupled with a few other problems and it becomes a huge pain in the A**. Because I am a magicka Temp and I primarily heal it means I am always stuck in combat thus I cannot mount up, so I have to sprint everywhere but I cannot sprint very far because my stam drains so fast. Once my stam is out I can no longer sprint/block/roll and I am a sitting duck to wrecking blow spammers. This just happened to me tonight. I threw out a couple of heals at a resource and everyone took off on mount while i was doing my best for the first 20 meters to keep up on foot but that ended once I was out of stam and then I got demolished by a NB spamming WB. My death log look like this - Ambush 2500k, WB 3800, WB 5000, WB 9500, WB 9500 (the numbers are not exact but close). I was running radiant magelight so the Ambush did nothing to me and oddly enough the first WB did not knock me down as I think I had just enough stam by then to block once but the following one did knock me down and I was dead before I could get back up.

ZOS, if you are not going to fix the stuck in combat bug from heals then you really need to make Sprinting drain whatever resource is higher (mag or stam) because as it stands stam classes can run the Boston Marathon and not even break a sweat, most times if a Stam users gets caught while sprinting then they still have enough resources left over to do a few roll dodges / blocks to try and turn the fight back into their favor. The best I could probable do is carry a few stam pots with me but this would only be good for maybe a few blocks or roll dodges and then I am back to 0.

Another thing that I have heard and have noticed as well is that CC immunity is broken. As an example, tonight I was knocked down by Crystal Frags and as soon as I got back up I was knocked down by something else (not sure what as we don't have a combat log on XBOX).

Ok rant over for now (sorry but it was bugging me).. hopefull I can get some constructive feedback on this!!


PS. I am curious as to what the average stam cost is for vet level skills vs mag cost of vet level skills? I am guessing that the average magicka pool for a magicka user is the same as a Stam users stam pool right? So if the cost of skills are the same for both mag and stam users then Zos really should change sprint/roll/block to use your highest resource. This way as a Mag user I could better use my Stam for a few Stam skills just like Stam players use their limited Mag on a few magicka skills.

It's more balanced than you think, take it like this.

Stam user runs for the marathon, they get a few yards further , but they are left with little stam, meaning they can do nothing, no attacks, no defence, no heals, as a magicka user you can still heal and defend yourself.

For instance in pve, the stam users are always complaining I'm sprinting ahead, because they don't want to waste their stamina sprinting.

Next, use tri stat food. At vr16 you'll have around 14k stamina, with the food, that's 14k purely for blocking and dodging etc.

Johngo0036

How far were you expecting to run with only 8.5k stamina?

Cathexis

IMO they should just remove the stamina cost for sprinting.

DemonDruaga

Use the pvp speeebuff lastw quite a time so your stam will get full while running fast with it and you can't get CC when you don't cast offensiv skills. Also go out of *combat mode* (don't know the terms for stack back the weappons)
With this two things you will be fast enough and in most cases will have stamina when get attacked

Hammy01

Thanks everyone for the input, I did some testing today and it seems that this is a battle leveled vs non battle leveled issue.

As I stated earlier I only recently decided to turn off battle leveling due to the suggestion of others in another thread because my magicka regen was messed up. Turning off battle leveling fixed that issue but opened up another can of worms with max stam and stam regen, and as we all know, stam is a much needed resource for everyone as it is needed for sprint/block/roll dodge.

Anyways here is my stats both in pve and cyrodiil (all cases without buff food or drinks) -

PVE no buff food or drinks –
Max Mag – 19129 Mag Rec - 1640
Max Health – 12888 Health Rec - 339
Max Stam – 8781 Stam Rec – 565

Cyrodiil no buff food or drinks, battle leveled on -
Max Mag – 16847 Mag Rec – 1181
Max health – 31125 Health Rec – 438
Max Stam – 16681 Stam Rec – 679

Cyrodiil no buff food or drinks, battle leveled off –
Max Mag – 19129 Mag Rec – 1640
Max Health – 18188 Health Rec – 339
Max Stam – 8781 Stam Rec – 565

The one thing that clearly jumps out at me is that while battle leveled my main resource takes a hit while my non main resource is buffed (mag vs stam). Because of this I was able to sprint farther / block and roll dodge more. I am not sure if this was a bug or an intended feature but I have a feeling that once the battle leveling is changed you might have a lot of pre vet16 people noticing the same things.

I am also curious if this only affects magicka users or does this happen to stam users as well (Ie - your max stam and stam rec is reduced while your max mag and mag rec is buffed)?

All said and done I still think ZOS should change things so that these core game mechanics (sprint/block/dodge) use our main resource so that the playing field is a little more even... just my opinion!!

PS. I personally like to use the vet lev5 blue food buffs so my max mag and health are around 24k but I might have to start using the tri stat food just to get more stam.

Reeko

Use drinks instead of food and invest some cp into reducing sprint cost.

Corzz

it depends on where your attribute points are, on one of my alts I have most of my points in stamina with a very cheap 5 PC hundings rage and get about 2.5k weapon damage battle leveled at v5, I done some duels and was actually winning a few despite a level difference.

try dumping most of your points in magicka as i'm guessing they are currently in health this was changed in the new patch, it is much better than the old system where dks could get 50k health at v6.

Hammy01

@Reeko - I used to always use drinks for the regen (mostly the purple tri-stat) but once I reached vet 5 or maybe 6 I noticed I was burning through magicka left and right trying to heal. That is when I started looking at things and noticed that while in Cyrodiil (battle leveled) my max magicka and magicka regen took a major hit. I could continue using the regen drinks but this left my max magicka pool low or use the max food buff to get my magicka pool up where it should be but have no regen. It was suggested in another thread that I created about this that I turn off battle leveling. I turned off battle leveling and now my max magicka and regen are where they should be.... butttttt this created a whole new problem for me as while being battle leveled my max stam and stam regen were buffed so I really did not have any issues sprinting/blocking/roll dodging... this created a false sense of security I guess.

With the upcoming changes to battle leveling (still not sure what exactly will be changed) I get the feeling there might be more magicka users in the same boat as me... suddenly discovering they no longer have enough stamina to do more than 2 core pvp mechanics (ie - sprinting/blocking/roll dodging/break cc) and as we all know.. once you are out of stamina any type of CC can ruin your world. This is why I was asking and hoping ZOS would consider making these core game mechanics to use the players highest resource (either magicka or stam).

@CorrieSmith - yeah I think I am going to change my mag and health points around. Currently I am at 35 mag, 22 health and 0 stam. I think I am going to change it to 47 mag, 10 health and 0 stam. Then I will just turn back on battle leveling and continue using regen drinks... that and move around some of my CP.

Saint314Louis1985

The obvious fix would be put some points into stam if you wish to run farther. Asking zos to completely change the way sprint works so that you can run further on your vet 7 sorc seems a little self centered. Just saying. You cant have your cake and eat it too. The combat bug sucks but everyone else gets it too.

Hammy01

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

The obvious fix would be put some points into stam if you wish to run farther. Asking zos to completely change the way sprint works so that you can run further on your vet 7 sorc seems a little self centered. Just saying. You cant have your cake and eat it too. The combat bug sucks but everyone else gets it too.

I'm not asking them to change it just because I can't run farther.

Tonight I went and change my stats around to 45 mag, 10 health and 0 stam then turned battle leveling back on and started using vet 5 purple drinks. I still lose 500 magicka regen and about 4000 max magicka but at least with this set up it is easier to survive due to my max stam and stam regen being buffed by almost double.

With that said I don't think I should have to dump points into Stam that really does not benefit my class Templar Healer just so I can do some of the core pvp game mechanics. Imagine if instead of stam all sprint/block/roll dodge/break free's required magicka to use... who would this benefit more? Of course it would benefit the magicka users as they have the max magicka and magicka regen to sustain those core mechanics as well as their current skills.. plus they still have a small stam pool to use skills such as caltrops or magika detonation or it's morphs (which by the way.. why does this skill not cost magicka instead of stam, it has magicka right in the name ).

Anyways I saw this (below) posted in another thread so maybe it is possible I am just experiencing some bugs like that or if that only affected vet16's.

Castle wrote: »

Hey folks. We've read through the thread and identified what happened on our end. This turns out to be because the cost scaling for Blocking in the Veteran Rank levels was never scaling as intended. When we updated the Battle Leveling to the new version, the scaling began working as it was intended to.

Unfortunately, that means that Block (and possibly sneak and sprint costs, too, though we have not yet verified that) costs are much higher for players at the highest levels than it has been in the past. So, to correct that we're going to reduce the scaling value so that it will end up approximately the same as the previous cost at VR 16. This means it will actually be cheaper than it was before for all previous levels.

Waffennacht

Well even at v16 I have trouble sustaining stam. I even asked for suggestions on another thread.

As a magicka build, sprinting is frowned upon, (for the very reasons you mentioned),

In your specific situation of not being able to keep up with the group, I would suggest, one don't try and keep up. I would suggest stayin close to home or stealth until out of combat, then try to rejoin the group. Two would be, take a longer route as many NB will try and pick off stragglers.

Im one of those that suggested turning battle leveling off. Honestly Im impressed as I didn't know you were only v7. I turned mine off at v12, the fact your only problem is the stam, pretty good!

Now for the stam issue, the suggestions I recieved were: get some magicka/stam/immovable potions (all in one) this will regen your much needed magicka, help with your stam, and prevent the need to CC break for a bit (helpin stam out too), invest CP points into Tumbling (more so than mooncalf, but that's until massive CP gain)

Im gonna guess the potions will be huge. At 8kish stam, a potion returning 5k stam and immovable is probably enough to keep going.

As we do not know for sure the changes these suggestions may be helpful.

Btw one more time, way to go as a v7!

Hammy01

@Waffennacht

It was some good advice you gave me because it got me to start looking at things a little closer. As a vet7 with battle leveling off my magicka and mag regen were in good shape so my heals were hitting hard and often thus playing in a group I really had no issues unless I was CC'd or focus fired.... but the stam issue really got to me so i changed a few more things up and went back to battle leveled. My max magicka is not that bad but my mag regen is still bunk so I have to use the regen drinks. My heals are not quite as good now but at least I have a little more stam to roll dodge or break free now.

I have also decided not to heal at any more resources (Ie - farm, mines, lumber mill) unless I absolutely have to that way I can mount up with the rest of my group.

I have also been thinking about the immovable potions and will probably buy some tomorrow... as an Argonian drinking potions is a plus!!

Waffennacht

Argonian! Way to represent!

Love seeing the lesser played races, hopefully they implement what they said, a water based dungeon giving Argonians something to excel at.

As long as you are having fun i have no experience as a healer, I sometimes combat prayer them, that's it.