Orsinium and Dual Wield

Amorpho

I keep hearing that dual wield has changed in Orsinium, in a way that somehow helps magika builds. Can somebody explain that to me? I guess it has something to do with passives and spell power (although it is dual wield). I know about the "twin blade" passive but have some other passives been changed that grant spell power?

Septimus_Magna

DW has several benefits for magicka builds.

This first one is the passive spell and weapon damage.
For v16 gold weapons you get 1335 (main hand) plus 10% (off-hand), total 1468 spell and weapon damage.

The second benefit comes from the passive twin blade, this increases all damage by 10% while using dual swords.

The amount of spell dmg thats possible with DW is just insane, on my sorc I have the following setup:
5x Julianos/1x Moalg Kena/2-3x Torugs Pact/3x Willpower
On my destro bar I have: 1335 + 299+129+129+186+(3*174)=2600 spell dmg (unbuffed) > 3276 (buffed)
On my DW/overload bar I have: 1335+133+299+129+129+186+(3*174)=2733 (unbuffed) > 3498 (buffed)

The difference is 3498 - 3276 = 222 spell dmg.

You can imagine Power Overload hits pretty hard with 3.5k spell dmg and 40k max magicka.

While DW on magicka builds its important to remember that you dont generate ultimate without light attacks/dodge/block every 8 seconds.

Amorpho

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DW has several benefits for magicka builds.

This first one is the passive spell and weapon damage.
For v16 gold weapons you get 1335 (main hand) plus 10% (off-hand), total 1468 spell and weapon damage.

The second benefit comes from the passive twin blade, this increases all damage by 10% while using dual swords.

The amount of spell dmg thats possible with DW is just insane, on my sorc I have the following setup:
5x Julianos/1x Moalg Kena/2-3x Torugs Pact/3x Willpower
On my destro bar I have: 1335 + 299+129+129+186+(3*174)=2600 spell dmg (unbuffed) > 3276 (buffed)
On my DW/overload bar I have: 1335+133+299+129+129+186+(3*174)=2733 (unbuffed) > 3498 (buffed)

The difference is 3498 - 3276 = 222 spell dmg.

You can imagine Power Overload hits pretty hard with 3.5k spell dmg and 40k max magicka.

While DW on magicka builds its important to remember that you dont generate ultimate without light attacks/dodge/block every 8 seconds.

Other than Twin Blade, what other passives increase spell damage? Also, do your light and heavy attacks need to hit the mark in order to generate ultimate? Despite the increased spell damage I get the feeling that destro staff is better than DW because it helps you put more pressure on opponents and generates ultimate a lot faster (if you are good with animation cancelling, hence dropping light attacks between each of your casts as I do)

Septimus_Magna

Amorpho wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DW has several benefits for magicka builds.

This first one is the passive spell and weapon damage.
For v16 gold weapons you get 1335 (main hand) plus 10% (off-hand), total 1468 spell and weapon damage.

The second benefit comes from the passive twin blade, this increases all damage by 10% while using dual swords.

The amount of spell dmg thats possible with DW is just insane, on my sorc I have the following setup:
5x Julianos/1x Moalg Kena/2-3x Torugs Pact/3x Willpower
On my destro bar I have: 1335 + 299+129+129+186+(3*174)=2600 spell dmg (unbuffed) > 3276 (buffed)
On my DW/overload bar I have: 1335+133+299+129+129+186+(3*174)=2733 (unbuffed) > 3498 (buffed)

The difference is 3498 - 3276 = 222 spell dmg.

You can imagine Power Overload hits pretty hard with 3.5k spell dmg and 40k max magicka.

While DW on magicka builds its important to remember that you dont generate ultimate without light attacks/dodge/block every 8 seconds.

Other than Twin Blade, what other passives increase spell damage? Also, do your light and heavy attacks need to hit the mark in order to generate ultimate? Despite the increased spell damage I get the feeling that destro staff is better than DW because it helps you put more pressure on opponents and generates ultimate a lot faster (if you are good with animation cancelling, hence dropping light attacks between each of your casts as I do)

Twin and Blade does not increase your spell dmg, it increase the damage of your abilities by 5% with dual swords.

Your weapon attacks need to hit the target in order to regen ultimate yes.

Most magicka dps build use DW on one bar and destro/resto on the other bar.

For the normal dps rotation its usually better to weave weapon attacks with the main dmg ability.

Magicka NBs have Sap Essence for example, so in AOE situations they can switch to their DW bar for increased dmg and spam sap to kill the adds. Magicka Templars rely on Biting Jabs for dmg and healing, they need to be close so they can spam Jabs and light attack every 8 seconds for ultimate regen.

What class do you play if you dont mind me asking?

Arkadius

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

[...]
Twin and Blade does not increase your spell dmg, it increase the damage of your abilities by 10% with dual swords.
[...]

Slight correction: Damage is only increased by 5% (2.5% per sword)

Septimus_Magna

Xiana wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

[...]
Twin and Blade does not increase your spell dmg, it increase the damage of your abilities by 10% with dual swords.
[...]

Slight correction: Damage is only increased by 5% (2.5% per sword)

You're right, 5% damage increase in total, not per sword ofc.

Amorpho

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Amorpho wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DW has several benefits for magicka builds.

This first one is the passive spell and weapon damage.
For v16 gold weapons you get 1335 (main hand) plus 10% (off-hand), total 1468 spell and weapon damage.

The second benefit comes from the passive twin blade, this increases all damage by 10% while using dual swords.

The amount of spell dmg thats possible with DW is just insane, on my sorc I have the following setup:
5x Julianos/1x Moalg Kena/2-3x Torugs Pact/3x Willpower
On my destro bar I have: 1335 + 299+129+129+186+(3*174)=2600 spell dmg (unbuffed) > 3276 (buffed)
On my DW/overload bar I have: 1335+133+299+129+129+186+(3*174)=2733 (unbuffed) > 3498 (buffed)

The difference is 3498 - 3276 = 222 spell dmg.

You can imagine Power Overload hits pretty hard with 3.5k spell dmg and 40k max magicka.

While DW on magicka builds its important to remember that you dont generate ultimate without light attacks/dodge/block every 8 seconds.

Other than Twin Blade, what other passives increase spell damage? Also, do your light and heavy attacks need to hit the mark in order to generate ultimate? Despite the increased spell damage I get the feeling that destro staff is better than DW because it helps you put more pressure on opponents and generates ultimate a lot faster (if you are good with animation cancelling, hence dropping light attacks between each of your casts as I do)

Twin and Blade does not increase your spell dmg, it increase the damage of your abilities by 5% with dual swords.

Your weapon attacks need to hit the target in order to regen ultimate yes.

Most magicka dps build use DW on one bar and destro/resto on the other bar.

For the normal dps rotation its usually better to weave weapon attacks with the main dmg ability.

Magicka NBs have Sap Essence for example, so in AOE situations they can switch to their DW bar for increased dmg and spam sap to kill the adds. Magicka Templars rely on Biting Jabs for dmg and healing, they need to be close so they can spam Jabs and light attack every 8 seconds for ultimate regen.

What class do you play if you dont mind me asking?

I am a magika sorc and I am considering moving to an inevitable detonation, curse, entropy, crystal frag rotation. Which other DW passives increase the damage of my abilities? Because I have seen other magika builds with Ruffian unlocked (and I think the first 2 passives too). But the description of Twin Blades talks about "damage of weapon attacks" rather than "damage of abilities". I'm getting confused...

BalticBlues

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DW has several benefits for magicka builds.
[...]
This first one is the passive spell and weapon damage.
[...]
The amount of spell dmg thats possible with DW is just insane.

The entire concept is insane, especially for role players.
To stay competitive in ESO, Sorcs and Templars have to use DW (or a two-handed sword).
The spell (magic) damage of a magic wand is so much lower.
ZOS favors NBs. That is probably the only explanation for the rampant DW nonsense.

Amorpho

BalticBlues wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DW has several benefits for magicka builds.
[...]
This first one is the passive spell and weapon damage.
[...]
The amount of spell dmg thats possible with DW is just insane.

The entire concept is insane, especially for role players.
To stay competitive in ESO, Sorcs and Templars have to use DW (or a two-handed sword).
The spell (magic) damage of a magic wand is so much lower.
ZOS favors NBs. That is probably the only explanation for the rampant DW nonsense.

Why a 2H sword? I never see sorcs with 2H...

BalticBlues

Amorpho wrote: »

Why a 2H sword? I never see sorcs with 2H...

2H also brings more spell damage.
Not as much spell damage as DW, but still much better than a wand.
My daughter plays a Sorc with 2H and "wrecking blows" opponents of much higher rank with it.
2H for melee and Destruction Staff for range is an awesome Sorc combo in PvP.

UltimaJoe777

BalticBlues wrote: »

Amorpho wrote: »

Why a 2H sword? I never see sorcs with 2H...

2H also brings more spell damage.
Not as much spell damage as DW, but still much better than a wand.
My daughter plays a Sorc with 2H and "wrecking blows" opponents of much higher rank with it.
2H for melee and Destruction Staff for range is an awesome Sorc combo in PvP.

This is partially why I made a thread recently about upping the Power statistic of Woodworking weapons, but also because it just plain makes sense to seeing as Bows and Staves are kind of penalized as 2h weapons for having less power... But if they added Arrows for Off-Hand while a Bow is held that might make Bow's lesser power more viable lol

Septimus_Magna

Amorpho wrote: »

I am a magika sorc and I am considering moving to an inevitable detonation, curse, entropy, crystal frag rotation. Which other DW passives increase the damage of my abilities? Because I have seen other magika builds with Ruffian unlocked (and I think the first 2 passives too). But the description of Twin Blades talks about "damage of weapon attacks" rather than "damage of abilities". I'm getting confused...

This works for pvp but not for pve in my experience. For pve you need a constant dmg output instead of just burst dmg. For pvp you can also use Tangling Webs (Undaunted) as main dmg ability, this also snares enemies so its really useful against melee builds.

The Ruffian passives states "While using DW attacks" so I dont think it works for magicka based dmg. None of the other DW passives apply to magicka based dmg, they boost weapon/DW ability dmg or reduce the cost.

BalticBlues wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DW has several benefits for magicka builds.
[...]
This first one is the passive spell and weapon damage.
[...]
The amount of spell dmg thats possible with DW is just insane.

The entire concept is insane, especially for role players.
To stay competitive in ESO, Sorcs and Templars have to use DW (or a two-handed sword).
The spell (magic) damage of a magic wand is so much lower.
ZOS favors NBs. That is probably the only explanation for the rampant DW nonsense.

The concept is strange to say the least but I like there are alternative ways to get high magicka based dmg and its both have their advantages and disadvantages.

For my sorc I mainly use DW for high Overload dmg, for my normal sustained dps I need to use a fire staff. Weaving Crushing Shock does good sustained dps with benefits of a low magicka cost, ranged interrupt, magicka return (a lot with ele.drain) and constant ultimate regen.

DW may boost your spell dmg more but you lose normal weapon attacks, ranged interrupt, magicka return and constant ultimate regen. Sorcs dont have a spammable class dmg ability so they're forced to use Tangling Webs which has a high cost.

If you want to spam a skill for constant dmg with the other classes you're forced to stand close to the target and/or risk running out of magicka. NBs being the exception because Swallow Soul/Funnel Health has a really low cost.

Amorpho

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Amorpho wrote: »

I am a magika sorc and I am considering moving to an inevitable detonation, curse, entropy, crystal frag rotation. Which other DW passives increase the damage of my abilities? Because I have seen other magika builds with Ruffian unlocked (and I think the first 2 passives too). But the description of Twin Blades talks about "damage of weapon attacks" rather than "damage of abilities". I'm getting confused...

This works for pvp but not for pve in my experience. For pve you need a constant dmg output instead of just burst dmg. For pvp you can also use Tangling Webs (Undaunted) as main dmg ability, this also snares enemies so its really useful against melee builds.

The Ruffian passives states "While using DW attacks" so I dont think it works for magicka based dmg. None of the other DW passives apply to magicka based dmg, they boost weapon/DW ability dmg or reduce the cost.

BalticBlues wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

DW has several benefits for magicka builds.
[...]
This first one is the passive spell and weapon damage.
[...]
The amount of spell dmg thats possible with DW is just insane.

The entire concept is insane, especially for role players.
To stay competitive in ESO, Sorcs and Templars have to use DW (or a two-handed sword).
The spell (magic) damage of a magic wand is so much lower.
ZOS favors NBs. That is probably the only explanation for the rampant DW nonsense.

The concept is strange to say the least but I like there are alternative ways to get high magicka based dmg and its both have their advantages and disadvantages.

For my sorc I mainly use DW for high Overload dmg, for my normal sustained dps I need to use a fire staff. Weaving Crushing Shock does good sustained dps with benefits of a low magicka cost, ranged interrupt, magicka return (a lot with ele.drain) and constant ultimate regen.

DW may boost your spell dmg more but you lose normal weapon attacks, ranged interrupt, magicka return and constant ultimate regen. Sorcs dont have a spammable class dmg ability so they're forced to use Tangling Webs which has a high cost.

If you want to spam a skill for constant dmg with the other classes you're forced to stand close to the target and/or risk running out of magicka. NBs being the exception because Swallow Soul/Funnel Health has a really low cost.

My aim is of course PVP. I just wanted to try something explosive that my enemy doesn't have time to recover - inevitable detonation - curse - proc crystal frag - endless fury. Timed right, this combo can easily instakill