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Necromancy world skill line + New weapon skill line FUN TALK
Salmonoid
✭✭✭
Good Morning from Australia everyone! Let's have some good old positive community discussion on a fun topic.
There has been talk of new skill lines and the like being thrown around recently, Necromancy being a hot-topic as well as new weapon skill lines.
Why not do both!? Here are my thoughts on the topic.
Skip straight to the Sceptre/Ward Skill line if you don't care much about Necromancers.
Traditionally in the Elder Scrolls RPGs the protagonist never delves into Necromancy as it is always on the side of 'evil'.
I am not one for lore-breaking, however, I think that in an MMO environment which we have here at ESO:TU Necromancy can find it's place to be used by the players, ESO:TU is not a single player experience where you are the sole protector of the world, so we should be free to get up to some mischief with Necromancy.
How to implement Necromancy successfully?
I think the best way to introduce Necromancy to ESO:TU would have to be through a world skill line.
This makes it far easier to manage and balance with the current classes and can be used by everyone who would like to.
How to acquire the Necromancy world skill line?
Our current combat world skill lines are Werewolf and Vampire, these are acquired from getting infected from a certain NPC and completing a short quest line OR receiving a bite from another player who is currently infected. Soul Magic goes largely unnoticed, exception of a few players using Soul Strike.
For simplicity, Necromancy could follow a similar pathway. You would be required to kill a certain NPC and acquire a "Black Soul Gem Ward" (More on this below), and follow a short quest line to become a fully fledge Necromancer. Receive a "Sceptre" (more on this below) in the quest reward.
What resource would this skill line use?
Health. Necromancy would use Health as it's main (not only, maybe only?) resource.
Possible hybrid use of Health and Magicka, skill cost could be a 80% Health, 20% Magicka split for example.
Health being used as a resource is an interesting and unused mechanic at the moment, with the exception of Equilibrium in the Mages Guild skill line.
(I'm ignoring the fact that Health is obviously a resource that needs to be used and managed in combat effectively, no need for snide comments).
We have Werewolf for Stamina and Vampire for Magicka, using Health as the resource for Necromancy would be very interesting.
I could see Necromancy using just Magicka as a resource, although I like the Health idea far better and this would lead to a new Stamina World Skill having to be introduced for variety sake.
How does the Necromancy skill line work?
As mentioned briefly above, two new items would come into play. An off-hand Black Soul Gem Ward and a Sceptre as a new weapon.
I will discuss each individually. These are a tad lengthy so spoilers are used.
The Black Soul Gem Ward - Off-hand slot
The Sceptre and Ward - New weapon skill line.
Necromancer + Sceptre and Ward Skill Lines
Will be listed and discussed in the post below, I'd like lots of input on from the community would be fun to figure them out together.
There has been talk of new skill lines and the like being thrown around recently, Necromancy being a hot-topic as well as new weapon skill lines.
Why not do both!? Here are my thoughts on the topic.
Skip straight to the Sceptre/Ward Skill line if you don't care much about Necromancers.
Should Necromancy be implemented?
The reason why I think Necromancy would be a feasible implementation into ESO:TU is because Necromancy has run rampant throughout the Elder Scrolls history, and has played a big part in major story lines, Hello Mannimarco. So, it's not a foreign concept to introduce.Traditionally in the Elder Scrolls RPGs the protagonist never delves into Necromancy as it is always on the side of 'evil'.
I am not one for lore-breaking, however, I think that in an MMO environment which we have here at ESO:TU Necromancy can find it's place to be used by the players, ESO:TU is not a single player experience where you are the sole protector of the world, so we should be free to get up to some mischief with Necromancy.
How to implement Necromancy successfully?
I think the best way to introduce Necromancy to ESO:TU would have to be through a world skill line.
This makes it far easier to manage and balance with the current classes and can be used by everyone who would like to.
How to acquire the Necromancy world skill line?
Our current combat world skill lines are Werewolf and Vampire, these are acquired from getting infected from a certain NPC and completing a short quest line OR receiving a bite from another player who is currently infected. Soul Magic goes largely unnoticed, exception of a few players using Soul Strike.
For simplicity, Necromancy could follow a similar pathway. You would be required to kill a certain NPC and acquire a "Black Soul Gem Ward" (More on this below), and follow a short quest line to become a fully fledge Necromancer. Receive a "Sceptre" (more on this below) in the quest reward.
What resource would this skill line use?
Health. Necromancy would use Health as it's main (not only, maybe only?) resource.
Possible hybrid use of Health and Magicka, skill cost could be a 80% Health, 20% Magicka split for example.
Health being used as a resource is an interesting and unused mechanic at the moment, with the exception of Equilibrium in the Mages Guild skill line.
(I'm ignoring the fact that Health is obviously a resource that needs to be used and managed in combat effectively, no need for snide comments).
We have Werewolf for Stamina and Vampire for Magicka, using Health as the resource for Necromancy would be very interesting.
I could see Necromancy using just Magicka as a resource, although I like the Health idea far better and this would lead to a new Stamina World Skill having to be introduced for variety sake.
How does the Necromancy skill line work?
As mentioned briefly above, two new items would come into play. An off-hand Black Soul Gem Ward and a Sceptre as a new weapon.
I will discuss each individually. These are a tad lengthy so spoilers are used.
The Black Soul Gem Ward - Off-hand slot
Werewolf and Vampire require an Ultimate/Skill on the bar, This will be the item required to activate the Necromancy skills and passives.
A version of the new Ward item I have introduced. Can be improved as wood items are currently, craftable if you take that option of the two below.
Its trait would provide a defensive bonus split 50/50 between yourself and your Necromancer pets/summons, as well as increase your characters Health Regeneration by x amount. Enchantment slot is open to customisation.
Being an item specifically used to activate the Necromancy world skill line, it needs some special love.
There are two ways to implement the BSG Ward that I can think of, they are as follows.
1. The Black Soul Gem Wards stats will scale with both your Characters Level and the level of your Necromancer skill line. I think this is the most effective way, as it 'binds' the item with your character the way a Necromancer item should. For variety, maybe have different trait sets available. I prefer just the one trait for simplicity reasons.
2. Make Black Soul Gem Wards craftable like regular wards will be able to be, I don't like this idea as much. You could have BSG Wards craftable with a few different traits related to Necromancy. Would not be able to to use current item set traits with a BSG Ward.
A version of the new Ward item I have introduced. Can be improved as wood items are currently, craftable if you take that option of the two below.
Its trait would provide a defensive bonus split 50/50 between yourself and your Necromancer pets/summons, as well as increase your characters Health Regeneration by x amount. Enchantment slot is open to customisation.
Being an item specifically used to activate the Necromancy world skill line, it needs some special love.
There are two ways to implement the BSG Ward that I can think of, they are as follows.
1. The Black Soul Gem Wards stats will scale with both your Characters Level and the level of your Necromancer skill line. I think this is the most effective way, as it 'binds' the item with your character the way a Necromancer item should. For variety, maybe have different trait sets available. I prefer just the one trait for simplicity reasons.
2. Make Black Soul Gem Wards craftable like regular wards will be able to be, I don't like this idea as much. You could have BSG Wards craftable with a few different traits related to Necromancy. Would not be able to to use current item set traits with a BSG Ward.
The Sceptre and Ward - New weapon skill line.
This was a product of the use of BSG Ward in the off-hand slot, as a primary slot weapon that made sense was needed. But on thinking about it more, I think it is a weapon skill line that has a legitimate place in its own right in ESO:TU.
This item will not be tied to Necromancy as the BSG item is, and is fully craftable with wood materials like Staffs/Shields are currently.
A new weapon skill line in the form of Sceptre and Ward, the Magicka equivalent of One-Handed and Shield skill line (Stamina).
This would be more of a defence and regeneration aura focused skill line, rather than tank and single target damage like the One-Handed and Shield skill line has or healing like the Restoration Staff skill line.
The Sceptre would give a spell damage bonus equivalent to a 1-handed weapon damage bonus, the auto attacks would do Magic damage.
The Ward would provide a defensive bonus split 50/50 between yourself and allies within x metres, does not provide bonuses to pets/summons.
This item will not be tied to Necromancy as the BSG item is, and is fully craftable with wood materials like Staffs/Shields are currently.
A new weapon skill line in the form of Sceptre and Ward, the Magicka equivalent of One-Handed and Shield skill line (Stamina).
This would be more of a defence and regeneration aura focused skill line, rather than tank and single target damage like the One-Handed and Shield skill line has or healing like the Restoration Staff skill line.
The Sceptre would give a spell damage bonus equivalent to a 1-handed weapon damage bonus, the auto attacks would do Magic damage.
The Ward would provide a defensive bonus split 50/50 between yourself and allies within x metres, does not provide bonuses to pets/summons.
Necromancer + Sceptre and Ward Skill Lines
Will be listed and discussed in the post below, I'd like lots of input on from the community would be fun to figure them out together.
Australian - PS4 NA
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.
0
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Salmonoid✭✭✭Here we can discuss the skill lines and what would work out. List your ideas everyone, no idea is a bad idea
.
Necromancer Skill line
Skill 1: Summon Zombies
Skill 2: Summon Skeleton Archer?
Skill 3: Sacrifice Health to heal your summons
Skill 4: ?
Skill 5: ?
Ultimate: Summon a Flesh Atronach
Passives:
Sceptre and Ward Skill line
Skill 1: 10 second Aura that increases nearby allies Armor and Spell Resist by x
Skill 2:
Skill 3:
Skill 4:
Skill 5:
Passives:
Edited by Salmonoid on November 7, 2015 4:05PMAustralian - PS4 NA
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.1 -
NoMoreChillies✭✭✭✭✭
✭I take big influence from Diablo 2 Necromancer
Skill #4: Wall of bones
Skill #5: Necro Totem - All enemies are taunted to this totem for x amount of time.
Passives:
#1: Each summon grants X health regen
#2: Each summon grants x armor
#3: Each summon grants x spell resist
Ward skill line
ESO needs a full support line.
Ward skill #2/#3/#4: Place seal on ground that increases health/magicka/stamina regen for allies in seal radius
Ward skill #5: Place seal that increases damage done for allies
Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭havent we seen enough of these post repeat button is on again i see
Indeed. And considering the game's sworn enemy are necromancers I really don't see this happening, sorry.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No
If Necromancy summons were to end up like Sorc pe(s)ts and be all but useless skills during endgame...
Just no
Rather have more Magicka Based Weapons though, like Illusion Staff or Spell Wands"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU1 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No
If Necromancy summons were to end up like Sorc pe(s)ts and be all but useless skills during endgame...
Just no
Rather have more Magicka Based Weapons though, like Illusion Staff or Spell Wands
You know, basing a concept off of "endgame" is not very constructive. There is more to a game than simply rushing through it just to get to the post-story content and spend all your time PvPing or doing PvE for nothing more than gear to further aid your PvPing. Well, at least in this game can't say the same for games like WoW lolGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Salmonoid✭✭✭Is the general opinion really that negative towards Necromancy?
Werewolves and Vampires are 'sword enemies' as well, We come along a few good ones but there are bad as well. Why should Necromancy be so different?
The game needs small things like this over time, this would be something that could be introduced after the DB/TG DLC or something.
Just some general brainstorming, no need to be so defensive about it all. Get outside, cheer up and live a little.Australian - PS4 NA
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.1 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just let the dead horse R.I.P. already and stop beating it there is no point of adding in new classes or weapons into the game when the classes and weapons that are already in are broken.0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Is the general opinion really that negative towards Necromancy?
Werewolves and Vampires are 'sword enemies' as well, We come along a few good ones but there are bad as well. Why should Necromancy be so different?
The game needs small things like this over time, this would be something that could be introduced after the DB/TG DLC or something.
Just some general brainstorming, no need to be so defensive about it all. Get outside, cheer up and live a little.
Generally, no. Lore-based, yes. After all, Mannimarco is our sworn enemy as he is a necromancer dedicated to becoming a god and overthrowing even Molag Bal, who he severed our soul for. His minions, the Worm Cult, are all necromancers too. Necromancy may not be so bad in other TES games but in this one it's as counter-intuitive as us playing as Daedra.
That being said I enjoy using Summons to fight enemies for me in other games so I don't have personal beef with Necromancy. It's just not something you can expect in this game.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
TERMINAT0R_XVII✭✭✭Necromancer: Skill restriction: You may not have more than one type of summon out at one time
Skill 1: Summon Bloodfiends: Summons 3 Bloodfiends that last 12 seconds or till they die
Morph 1: Summon Zombies: Summons 2 zombies with 3x more health, they do more damage and last as long as you have magicka or till they die.
Morph 2: Summon Noxious bloodfiends: Summons up to 3 then they run toward the nearest enemy explode and deal X disease damage for X seconds, if affected enemy dies while diseased they explode and deal X area disease damage.
Skill 2: Summon Skeleton: Summons 2 bone flayers for 12 seconds, spell can be reused again if summons die early
Morph 1: Summon Skeletal Archer: Summons 2 Skeleton archers for 10 seconds instead which deal 3x the damage but have less health
Morph 2: Summon Skeletal Guardian: Summons 2 Skeleton Guardians for 15 seconds instead which deal less damage but have 3x the health
Skill 3: Necromantic Healing: Sacrifice your Summons to restore X% of your missing health
Morph 1: Sacrificial Healing: Sacrifice X% of your health to heal your summons
Morph 2 : Necromantic Covenant : Sacrifice your Summons to heal nearby allies for X% of their missing health
Skill 4: Summon Flesh Atronach: Summons flesh atronach for 15 seconds, ability can be reused again if summon dies early
Morph 1: Summon Vampiric Flesh Atronach: Flesh Atronach now steals X health per second from enemies within 5 meters of itself
Morph 2 : Summon Poisonous Flesh Atronach: Flesh Atronach now deals X poison damage per second to any enemy within 5 meters of itself
Skill 5: Bane of the living: Inscribe a necromantic rune on the ground that roots any enemies within 5 meters for 10 seconds, The initial root cannot be blocked.
Morph 1: Feast Of The Dead: Adds damage over time effect and root lasts longer
Morph 2: Gift Of The Dead: if rooted enemy is killed while rooted they leave behind an 8 meter quagmire that reduces enemy movement speed by 50% and deals X damage per second and returns 35% of the damage done to the caster.
Ultimate : Master Necromancy: COSTS 400 ULTIMATE, Lasts 30 seconds, Reduces costs to cast necromancy abilities by half, allows up to 2 types of summons to be used at once and increases magicka regeneration by 200%Xbox one NA server
Current CP level: 481
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MrDerrikk✭✭✭✭✭
✭The thing that I really like in this is the Sceptre/Ward line. I have agree with UltimaJoe here that the necromancy line isn't likely in a Lore sense, however I think that a new world line is good.
My idea would be a World Skill line given to you by Meridia, perhaps after Caldwell's Gold in order to make sure it's end-gqne relevant. Perhaps at the end of the main story for those who wouldn't want that?I have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!
DC - PC - EU - Australian
VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB
Oh look, Anook.0 -
Salmonoid✭✭✭The thing that I really like in this is the Sceptre/Ward line. I have agree with UltimaJoe here that the necromancy line isn't likely in a Lore sense, however I think that a new world line is good.
My idea would be a World Skill line given to you by Meridia, perhaps after Caldwell's Gold in order to make sure it's end-gqne relevant. Perhaps at the end of the main story for those who wouldn't want that?
Yeah I think the Necromancy just has too much hate against it at the moment and doesn't fit in with the game at the moment, maybe in the future.
Sceptre/Ward sounds good on paper, I will expand on it and maybe it will receive some better feed back. Thanks for your advice.Australian - PS4 NA
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.0 -
Levo18✭✭✭✭I wouldnt want it as a world skill line because everyone would use it and it would be boring. It should be a whole new class.0 -
NateAssassin✭✭✭✭✭Just as useless as a sorc's summons, doubt anyone would use more of them if they added a whole separate skill line for it.AD | Malaya the Mystic ─ VR16 Khajiit Sorc | Shal'ina the Swift ─ VR16 Khajiit NB | Jòhn Cena ─ VR1 Khajiit NB | Priestess Shaari ─ VR1 Temp0 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wouldn't necromancy be under soul magic? soul trapping is techcnally necromancy so necromancy is technally already usable by the player, not to mention when you resurrect an ally with a soul gem you are doing necromancy so please stop asking for it because it is already ingame or are you not aware? what you are asking for is an overhaul to the necromancy but your as likely to get that as an overhaul to vampirism or lycanthropy.Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on November 7, 2015 2:51AM0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The thing that I really like in this is the Sceptre/Ward line. I have agree with UltimaJoe here that the necromancy line isn't likely in a Lore sense, however I think that a new world line is good.
My idea would be a World Skill line given to you by Meridia, perhaps after Caldwell's Gold in order to make sure it's end-gqne relevant. Perhaps at the end of the main story for those who wouldn't want that?
The Fighter's Guild Skill Line is supported by Meridia already, especially Dawnbreaker.TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Wouldn't necromancy be under soul magic? soul trapping is techcnally necromancy so necromancy is technally already usable by the player, not to mention when you resurrect an ally with a soul gem you are doing necromancy so please stop asking for it because it is already ingame or are you not aware? what you are asking for is an overhaul to the necromancy but your as likely to get that as an overhaul to vampirism or lycanthropy.
You make a valid point, but Soul Trap is technically Conjuration and is a staple spell in TES series.Edited by UltimaJoe777 on November 7, 2015 4:47AMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
MrDerrikk✭✭✭✭✭
✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »The thing that I really like in this is the Sceptre/Ward line. I have agree with UltimaJoe here that the necromancy line isn't likely in a Lore sense, however I think that a new world line is good.
My idea would be a World Skill line given to you by Meridia, perhaps after Caldwell's Gold in order to make sure it's end-gqne relevant. Perhaps at the end of the main story for those who wouldn't want that?
The Fighter's Guild Skill Line is supported by Meridia already, especially Dawnbreaker.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that...perhaps if they created a race ability or two? You may have guessed that I just want more skills to keep throwing the meta out without making previous builds completely uselessI have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!
DC - PC - EU - Australian
VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB
Oh look, Anook.0 -
Salmonoid✭✭✭No
If Necromancy summons were to end up like Sorc pe(s)ts and be all but useless skills during endgame...
Just no
Rather have more Magicka Based Weapons though, like Illusion Staff or Spell Wands
Well this would be completely based around the summons, so if released it wouldn't be a flop like the Sorc summons are.Australian - PS4 NA
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.0 -
Salmonoid✭✭✭I wouldnt want it as a world skill line because everyone would use it and it would be boring. It should be a whole new class.
Making a new class would require loads more time as you'd have 3 skill lines and it would be much harder to balance with the other classes and fit into the game as it is currently, it would also have to have a DLC focused solely around it to give it a reason to be added as a class.
As a world skill it's limited by a choice between itself Werewolf and Vampire. Also, as it uses Health as it's resource for it's skills, it would require current builds to build around it, creating a lot more variety in the current meta.
Currently Vampire doesn't require you to build around it as you just slot one ability get the magicka regen bonus and stay out of fire. Werewolf is even more simplistic.Australian - PS4 NA
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.0 -
dRudE✭✭✭Yes, big yes to necromancy. Elder Scrolls had always had a thing for necromancy and it's that part of all the games that I enjoy by far the most. It saddens me every day I play ESO that I cannot summon a zombie/skeleton/ghost to aid me depending on the fighting style of whatever enemy I'm fighting.
I also really like the ideas for a sceptre style weapon tree for magicka using players, sick of running around dual wield for that extra damagey goodness. A sceptre would make much more sense.~Necrow0 -
UltimaJoe777 wrote: »
vampires and werewolves are considered "evil" as well, so this argument is null and void0 -
Salmonoid✭✭✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »
vampires and werewolves are considered "evil" as well, so this argument is null and void
I went over all this in the first post, I guess some people don't read and just skip straight to the comments to hate haha.Australian - PS4 NA
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.0 -
RAGUNAnoOne✭✭✭✭✭
✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »The thing that I really like in this is the Sceptre/Ward line. I have agree with UltimaJoe here that the necromancy line isn't likely in a Lore sense, however I think that a new world line is good.
My idea would be a World Skill line given to you by Meridia, perhaps after Caldwell's Gold in order to make sure it's end-gqne relevant. Perhaps at the end of the main story for those who wouldn't want that?
The Fighter's Guild Skill Line is supported by Meridia already, especially Dawnbreaker.TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Wouldn't necromancy be under soul magic? soul trapping is techcnally necromancy so necromancy is technally already usable by the player, not to mention when you resurrect an ally with a soul gem you are doing necromancy so please stop asking for it because it is already ingame or are you not aware? what you are asking for is an overhaul to the necromancy but your as likely to get that as an overhaul to vampirism or lycanthropy.
You make a valid point, but Soul Trap is technically Conjuration and is a staple spell in TES series.
I thought it was Mysticism
as for lore reasons against this, ever heard of fighting fire with fire?PS4 NA
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