Zenimax, you just killed Blackwater Blade.

AMadAussie

See title. And maybe some of the below comments from people who actually know what they're talking about!

Matem

No, they fixed blackwater blade.
You no more need 5 people to kill 1 person... and in a rare case if you managed to kill 1 person alone, you don't need more than 5 minutes to do that anymore. (I'm of course talking about people who can actually fight properly)
Also get used to siege actually doing some damage for once. I saw so many people dying to it yesterday because they're used to ignoring the red circles for months before.

MakJulos

Interesting seeing how changes affect non-vet PvP - it's non-vet so naturally you'll see more newbies in here than on normal campaigns, ppl that may have just started PvP'ing and perhaps aren't very good at it - it would suck if changes chases ppl away from game before they barely gotten into it...

AMadAussie

May the best man man with the most CP win!

Matem wrote: »

No, they fixed blackwater blade.
You no more need 5 people to kill 1 person... and in a rare case if you managed to kill 1 person alone, you don't need more than 5 minutes to do that anymore. (I'm of course talking about people who can actually fight properly)
Also get used to siege actually doing some damage for once. I saw so many people dying to it yesterday because they're used to ignoring the red circles for months before.

I'm all for a siege damage increase! Siege still does bugger all damage though. See thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/228158/buff-siege-weapon-damage-against-players/p1

uso245

People aren't going to know what you are referring to if you aren't going to elaborate besides just saying "see title"... if you mean they curbed the CP ranks it was a known fix that was needed since the newbies coming into the game playing non-vet without CP are fighting people with large CP counts making a completely unfair advantage.

*coming from a beta player that has a sizable amount of CP*

Asmael

I hope ZoS realizes that making gear counts is an absolutely insane boost to BwB vets.

Gear didn't matter as much, so of course you'd benefit from some extra stats here and there (full divines gear + mundus an-piece bonus), but right now, since everything matters...

Full blue gear with purple enchants every few levels anyone? Good luck with your green quality heavy armor completely outdated that's giving you as much as a light armor.

This shouldn't have been done without giving a way for people to gear themselves easily. No, lockboxes with random c*** don't count.

Scyantific

Ok, so CP is capped. Still doesn't make a difference when you've got someone whose only character is a non-vet therefore they have 0 CP.

I think at this point there needs to be two things done to completely overhaul Blackwater Blade PvP:
1. Remove the stupid Battle Spirit nerfs from IC
2. Make it a non-CP campaign

AMadAussie

uso245 wrote: »

People aren't going to know what you are referring to if you aren't going to elaborate besides just saying "see title"... if you mean they curbed the CP ranks it was a known fix that was needed since the newbies coming into the game playing non-vet without CP are fighting people with large CP counts making a completely unfair advantage.

*coming from a beta player that has a sizable amount of CP*

In order to understand what I'm referring to, one only needs to pvp in bwb for a short time. If you're REALLY bold, go ahead and reallocate your CP, and don't use them. Have fun!

MakJulos wrote: »

Interesting seeing how changes affect non-vet PvP - it's non-vet so naturally you'll see more newbies in here than on normal campaigns, ppl that may have just started PvP'ing and perhaps aren't very good at it - it would suck if changes chases ppl away from game before they barely gotten into it...

That's exactly what it's going to do to new players.

Asmael wrote: »

I hope ZoS realizes that making gear counts is an absolutely insane boost to BwB vets.

This guy gets it!

Scyantific wrote: »

Ok, so CP is capped. Still doesn't make a difference when you've got someone whose only character is a non-vet therefore they have 0 CP.

I think at this point there needs to be two things done to completely overhaul Blackwater Blade PvP:
1. Remove the stupid Battle Spirit nerfs from IC
2. Make it a non-CP campaign

This guy gets it too!

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Matem wrote: »

No, they fixed blackwater blade.
You no more need 5 people to kill 1 person... and in a rare case if you managed to kill 1 person alone, you don't need more than 5 minutes to do that anymore. (I'm of course talking about people who can actually fight properly)
Also get used to siege actually doing some damage for once. I saw so many people dying to it yesterday because they're used to ignoring the red circles for months before.

Quoted for TRUTH!

MakJulos wrote: »

Interesting seeing how changes affect non-vet PvP - it's non-vet so naturally you'll see more newbies in here than on normal campaigns, ppl that may have just started PvP'ing and perhaps aren't very good at it - it would suck if changes chases ppl away from game before they barely gotten into it...

Yea and what about when easy mode Battle level ends and they hit VR15 and their Stamina build losses 14k magic, or magic builds lossing 14k stamina. Both lossing 16k health. Players were going from level 10 to VR14 thinking that 32k health and 22k magic and stamina was the normal order of PvP.

It's better for stamina builds learning to use their magic as utilities at level 10 then to level in PvP then to build your character around the idea that you will have unrealistic stats. Getting killed cause you can't spam magic on a stamina build or vice verse.

Scyantific

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Matem wrote: »

No, they fixed blackwater blade.
You no more need 5 people to kill 1 person... and in a rare case if you managed to kill 1 person alone, you don't need more than 5 minutes to do that anymore. (I'm of course talking about people who can actually fight properly)
Also get used to siege actually doing some damage for once. I saw so many people dying to it yesterday because they're used to ignoring the red circles for months before.

Quoted for TRUTH!

MakJulos wrote: »

Interesting seeing how changes affect non-vet PvP - it's non-vet so naturally you'll see more newbies in here than on normal campaigns, ppl that may have just started PvP'ing and perhaps aren't very good at it - it would suck if changes chases ppl away from game before they barely gotten into it...

Yea and what about when easy mode Battle level ends and they hit VR15 and their Stamina build losses 14k magic, or magic builds lossing 14k stamina. Both lossing 16k health. Players were going from level 10 to VR14 thinking that 32k health and 22k magic and stamina was the normal order of PvP.

It's better for stamina builds learning to use their magic as utilities at level 10 then to level in PvP then to build your character around the idea that you will have unrealistic stats. Getting killed cause you can't spam magic on a stamina build or vice verse.

News flash: Battle leveling is compulsory now. Can't turn it off at all. So those numbers you're pulling in Cyro? Inflated by battle-leveling.

AMadAussie

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

MakJulos wrote: »

Interesting seeing how changes affect non-vet PvP - it's non-vet so naturally you'll see more newbies in here than on normal campaigns, ppl that may have just started PvP'ing and perhaps aren't very good at it - it would suck if changes chases ppl away from game before they barely gotten into it...

Yea and what about when easy mode Battle level ends and they hit VR15 and their Stamina build losses 14k magic, or magic builds lossing 14k stamina. Both lossing 16k health. Players were going from level 10 to VR14 thinking that 32k health and 22k magic and stamina was the normal order of PvP.

It's better for stamina builds learning to use their magic as utilities at level 10 then to level in PvP then to build your character around the idea that you will have unrealistic stats. Getting killed cause you can't spam magic on a stamina build or vice verse.

Unfortunately you don't get it. That's ok, I don't blame you. Try thinking outside that small little box. Not everyone wants the gank-or-be-ganked, zerg-or-be-zerged pvp that is currently vet pvp. So they play bwb. Only now it's nearly identical to vet pvp. Seeing the problem yet?

Scyantific wrote: »

News flash: Battle leveling is compulsory now. Can't turn it off at all. So those numbers you're pulling in Cyro? Inflated by battle-leveling.

Quoted for TRUTH!

Alucardo

It really is nice having so much weapon/spell damage and regen. Killed a Templar in 6 seconds yesterday. All my procs were timed perfectly and the guy basically exploded. He couldn't even heal through it.
I missed that so much. Though I do agree that it's only going to make veterans even more powerful, which is exactly what I predicted would happen before the change.
Here's something for you. I made 20 CPs last night, just running around doing a few quests. Imagine if I had have stayed longer and did this every night? I'd be near the cap. 501 CPs on a non-veteran campaign... lol, seriously, come on now.
Just disable them on Blackwater so we can have a truly balanced experience. I don't want to fight people with zero or very little CPs.

AMadAussie

Alucardo wrote: »

It really is nice having so much weapon/spell damage and regen. Killed a Templar in 6 seconds yesterday. All my procs were timed perfectly and the guy basically exploded. He couldn't even heal through it.

Heh, GG.

Alucardo wrote: »

Though I do agree that it's only going to make veterans even more powerful, which is exactly what I predicted would happen before the change.

Good prediction, shame you didn't bet on it, you'd be rich.

Alucardo wrote: »

Here's something for you. I made 20 CPs last night, just running around doing a few quests. Imagine if I had have stayed longer and did this every night?

I agree, the catch-up system is absolutely fantastic.

Alucardo wrote: »

501 CPs on a non-veteran campaign... lol, seriously, come on now.
Just disable them on Blackwater so we can have a truly balanced experience.

Nail on the head!

Alucardo wrote: »

I don't want to fight people with zero or very little CPs.

Imagine what a new player who doesn't even know what CP's are is going to think? Even if they could play well, they'd get rolled and not even know why.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

@Scyantific @AMadAussie
I do understand your points but Zerging is done by players we make that choice. If no one joins a Zerg group and stick to what they have been doing then no problem and if people do Zerg learn to fight Zergs it's War this is Chest not checkers.

You can't begin to explain how Tanks, healers and DPS had clone stats. I played my New Dragon Knight Tank this morning and was like damn why can't I keep my magic up drinks were running cost reduction from CP was fine but I was wearing 5h 2m on a stamina spamming magic as I have done on every last build that I leveled in PvP and I level on my guys in PvP.

Never had to jump zone to get quest or grind spots in my level range and had far better pools, never needed to really care about the gear they wore. But that's a problem not only does my powers change once I can't be battle leveled, I have to remember that magic or stamina is not something I have in spades.

The point of non vet in hope you get a handle for vet PvP not to play the game on easy mode grinding to 25 smash noobs and delete the character after vet 1.

BlackEar

AMadAussie wrote: »

See title. And maybe some of the below comments from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Love that edit because it heavily implies that you don't.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

If your stamina build had stats of a VR14 stamina build now then why would vets be more powerful you will match stats. Will my max level characters have a strong advantage yes and that's the point I fully level why the hell shouldn't I kill the guy that got the mail calling him to PvP five minutes ago in two seconds.

PvP is forced on no one if you choose to fight people with 501 cp and max gold gear that's on you not them not me you can level and get stronger then PvP. Battle leveling let many skilled players fight naked and win a camp full of battle leveled level 40+ People jumping low levels.

So just say you want easy mode back cause me saying better not hit the VR10 cause if they have any PvP skills they will be able to live long enough for their friends to save them.

AMadAussie

@kendellking_chaosb14_ESO Thanks for the well thought out response.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

The point of non vet in hope you get a handle for vet PvP not to play the game on easy mode grinding to 25 smash noobs and delete the character after vet 1.

A valid point. However, I do have a handle for vet PvP. The trouble is I don't find it fun in the slightest. Sure, as a NB I can basically instakill someone from stealth, [Put a few buffs up -> snipe -> ambush -> dead enemy. MUCH SKILL VERY WOW!]Unfortunately it isn't fun to be on the receiving end of that, and it also gets old VERY fast.

You also dodged the glaring issue of CP, which in my opinion, is the biggest problem.

@BlackEar Try harder mate! Damn, haven't you got it out for me. Keeping me on my toes I guess.

Resipsa131

Why would capping CP chase away new players?

Vyle_Byte

I'm thinking ZOS just must not give a rats azz about BWB. If they did, they would have disabled CP on it already. We have been asking them to do so pretty much since the CP system came out. For obvious reasons. If you cant see how CPs ruin a non vet campaign then you are most likely part of the problem.

BWB used to be a breath of fresh air. Too bad ZOS doesn't care about it.

AMadAussie

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Why would capping CP chase away new players?

The cap in itself wouldn't, I'm not sure anyone said the cap would?
What would drive them away is coming up against players with in excess of 300 [no doubt shortly to be 400-501].

@Alucardo @Scyantific Both nailed it. A huge step in the right direction is to remove CP from BwB. Totally.

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

I'm thinking ZOS just must not give a rats azz about BWB. If they did, they would have disabled CP on it already. We have been asking them to do so pretty much since the CP system came out. For obvious reasons. If you cant see how CPs ruin a non vet campaign then you are most likely part of the problem.

BWB used to be a breath of fresh air. Too bad ZOS doesn't care about it.

It's a real shame if Zenimax don't care about BwB. As you have said, it was actually quite fun for a time [minus the CP issues]

Alucardo

Many vets on BwB are already farming CPs in Wrothgar. Myself included
Non-vet campaign is going to be a scary place for er.. non vets.

Scyantific

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Why would capping CP chase away new players?

It's irrelevant because CP cap or not, CP does NOT kick in until a player hits V1. So any newbies wanting to try out PvP go into Cyro, get facerolled by a swarm of players that are kitted out in both CP and epic gear, and end up tossing their arms in the air, going "*** this ***," and moving off to a new game.

Keeping CP in Blackwater is essentially going to end up making BWB a circle-jerk campaign for veteran players at the CP cap who just want to roll in and kill the same people over and over.

AMadAussie

Alucardo wrote: »

Many vets on BwB are already farming CPs in Wrothgar. Myself included
Non-vet campaign is going to be a scary place for er.. non vets.

Sadly that looks like the way I'll be headed too... for if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...

Scyantific wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Why would capping CP chase away new players?

It's irrelevant because CP cap or not, CP does NOT kick in until a player hits V1. So any newbies wanting to try out PvP go into Cyro, get facerolled by a swarm of players that are kitted out in both CP and epic gear, and end up tossing their arms in the air, going "*** this ***," and moving off to a new game.

Keeping CP in Blackwater is essentially going to end up making BWB a circle-jerk campaign for veteran players at the CP cap who just want to roll in and kill the same people over and over.

This. That is exactly what is going to happen. +1

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Again this is a problem with the player base non vet was to be a learning ground having high CP players in non vet is not good for new players but the system was also meant to make leveling new Characters easier.

Honestly I would rather force all camps to have to deal with Zergs then to have one where some kind of unbalanced balance can happen. Old Black Water Blades was not at all balanced but was playable stats should matter, pools should matter and gear should matter before they don't.

Playing The Elder Zergs Online: Lag unlimited on all camps will force enough complains to make them pay attention to the game's PvP short comings. The last non Zerg camp is gone no more easy mode where stats don't matter no more just deleting Characters over and over and over again.

@ZoS needs to fix problems not apply band aid campaigns.

sagent64

i just playd blackwater blade today and yeah High Cp owning blackwater blade thanks ESO for kill bwb

I hop people gonna spread this so zenimax might able to read it

JackDaniell

I think the new changes to Battle Leveling are great. Now people don't have to grind at all of they just want to pvp, and they can be effective from the get go. If anything bwb should not allow you to use your cp, as it is intended for new players without any. If you want to rock a level 15 wih 500 CP go to azuras or your homed vet campaign, a level 15 with that many CP, a purple cafted gearset and a decent player behind it will be competitive wih other vet 16s.

Also regarding gearing a non vet to on for pvp, the rewards for worthy can drop some prety useful items at your level. Also getting yourself a set of blue gear crafted costs about 10-20k at any level up to v14. And making it purple doesn't cost that much extra either.. so I guess new players who want to pvp have a choice to make, 10 more bag slots or a boss set of pvp gear..