Struggling with Weap Crit vs Weap Dmg

Rittings

Okay... So I'm in a bind. Here is pretty much what I am, and what my stats are:-

Wood Elf/Nightblade
With Dual Wield equpped
Weapon Critical % = 82.1%
Weapon Dmg = 2,569

Stamina build with 54 points in stamina and 11 points in health

I have 5 pieces of Hunding's Rage equpped and 4 pieces of Night Mother (2 clothing, 2 weapons). I also have the 3 piece Robust ring of agility equipped.

I'm a VR16 with about 200 champion pionts and I feel that my damage output is low. I've seen 3-4k damage output, but can't even get close to the 3k. What am I doing wrong? What advice can you give me?

Rittings

I should have pointed out that I have the Thief as my mundus stone... I've tried the Warrior and Shadow, and neither seem to really help at all. Warrior bumps me up a couple hundred weapon damage... shadow obviously you can't see what it does (other than lower the crit chance).

Nestor

The thing with Crits is, anything over 50% has a real diminishing return. Once you are at 50% or a little more, your pretty much going to crit on most every attack. Probably not less often than you do at 80%. So, swap out some gear that gives Crits for Weapon Damage. Ashen Grip is nice for that as you get the extra damage with only 3 pieces, and since your DW, you get some crit from the 4th piece. A 5 piece Hundings/3 or 4 Piece Ashen Grip is hard to beat for weapon damage.

Then look at making some Purple or Gold Physical Damage Glyphs and apply them to your jewelry. You can gain up to another 400 in damage that way.

Just those two changes will get you comfortably in the 3,000s

Nestor

nvm double post

Aerieth

Nestor wrote: »

The thing with Crits is, anything over 50% has a real diminishing return. Once you are at 50% or a little more, your pretty much going to crit on most every attack. Probably not less often than you do at 80%. So, swap out some gear that gives Crits for Weapon Damage. Ashen Grip is nice for that as you get the extra damage with only 3 pieces, and since your DW, you get some crit from the 4th piece. A 5 piece Hundings/3 or 4 Piece Ashen Grip is hard to beat for weapon damage.

Then look at making some Purple or Gold Physical Damage Glyphs and apply them to your jewelry. You can gain up to another 400 in damage that way.

Just those two changes will get you comfortably in the 3,000s

Care to share your math regarding the bolded part?

Nirnrot

With a Crit heavy build you will want to maximize the Crit Damage. Unmodified, your crit will hit for 150% of your damage, but putting in precise strikes can up that to 175% of your damage with 100 points invested. I know you don't have that many CP yet, but my point is trying to up your Crit Damage since your Crit % is already really high. Other than that, the only way to up your dmg output would be to sacrifice crit for weapon damage and make sure all of your gear and enchants are purple or gold. Seeing that high number feels great but if you can't take advantage of it to deal massive damage, then you should rethink your build.

Nestor

Aerieth wrote: »

Care to share your math regarding the bolded part?

No math, just watching the flying numbers with the changes in Critical Strike chance. However someone did the math a while ago, and the post is around here somewhere.

Rittings

Thanks for some solid advice. I'll definitely be fiddling around. My gear is all gold. My only concern with making physical damage glyphs on my jewelry is the sacrifice of a huge portion of stamina regen - I eat stamina up like no-one's business!!

Jitterbug

Okay, @Nestor has some really solid posts in this thread (like always) so I will make a big deal out of this being my feelings, but I don't only want high crit for damage, I need it for survival as I am a stam sorc living off Critical Surge. And I can say I feel a lot less survivable (it's a word!) with less than 80% than I do above 80%.
I have the exact same setup as the OP with 3 Ravaging rings though, and just going from Thief to Shadow mundus made me die a lot more.
Other things might be factoring in (obviously they are), especially if the math behind Nestor's posts are sound, and I have no reason to doubt him/her.
So, I guess my post is kinda pointless as I also will have to experiment some more, but I must admit I'm a little sad to hear that everything above 50% is downright wasted.

Nestor

Jitterbug wrote: »

So, I guess my post is kinda pointless as I also will have to experiment some more, but I must admit I'm a little sad to hear that everything above 50% is downright wasted.

Its not so much a waste to go above 50% critical, and yes you may get a Critical slightly more often as you go over 50%. On the character I had critical chance at 82% I would get critical on every single attack. It's just when I did things that dropped the chance to about 56% I did not notice all that much of a drop in critical strikes. It went down, but not so much that I felt I was leaving damage on the table so to speak. So, yes if Crits are your main goal it is a good strategy to max crits out.

It's just that once you get over 50% criticals, there are other stats that you can invest in to give you more overall power/capability to your character. For example, it might be a good idea to take steps instead to increase your damage output (which would increase the damage that your criticals give you) or increase some regen to recover resources.

So, I probably should have said that once your critical chance is over 50% it may be more beneficial to your overall character to boost other stats as the benefit of increasing your crits over 50% diminishes.

Of course the Champion System has some thing do with this strategy and the things I used to have to do with Gear I can now do to some extent with the Champ System. So, it may be viable to go to 70% to 80% as you can use the Champ System to improve other aspects rather than gear and passives alone.

Jitterbug

Thanks for that.

I'm just wondering, you can get to 50 almost without gear between a mundus, medium armor, daggers, that CP passive and the base 10%.
So what's even the point of crit gear? Rhetorical question.

I'm glad that I now know this, but I stand by my statement that it's a little sad you can't "build for crit".

Nestor

Jitterbug wrote: »

I'm glad that I now know this, but I stand by my statement that it's a little sad you can't "build for crit".

To me, building for Criticals means also building for base damage that crits scale from. If your base damage is 100, a crit is 150, but if your base damage is 150, then your crits are 225. So, increasing base damage is really a good way to increase your damage with crits, especially if your getting crits on most of your attacks. More of a multiplier effect.

Hmmm I can't remember if the champ constellation to increase your damage is in the same group as the one that increases your critical damage, that could be a factor too. Where do you put those points?

Jitterbug

It's not my thread but I put all my points into the damage tree (pen, crit dmg and phys dmg).

I did some testing last night @Nestor and while I don't doubt you're right I must admit that what Recount shows for crit percentage matches pretty perfectly what my crit rating is. 80% on dw bar, a little under 70% on SnB bar.
I will test some more with a lower crit rating, but it's a little hard for me because if I don't crit, I die :-P