Why the guild raids don't invite randoms?

newtinmpls · October 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Thanks. But don't you think that given we all have 2 bars for our abilities most of players will most likely have like 80% of these abilities slotted even before they consider joining a group? I don't see how that is so big deal that needs to be pointed out then.

If you mean to come off like a sarcastic opinionated elitist unkind person, then you totally succeeded.

This is the sort of thing that is likely obvious to someone who has spent a lot of time and energy thinking about it, but it not at all intuitive to people without that mindset/experience.

@Rylana thanks for the examples.

Now I have to think about this; as my Magicka NB doesn't have vigor (not nearly enough AP to come close), nor does he use dual weild (magicka - he's all about the destro staff). But what you have done is point out some good principles and given some thought provoking examples.

Thank you.

Rylana · October 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Thanks. But don't you think that given we all have 2 bars for our abilities most of players will most likely have like 80% of these abilities slotted even before they consider joining a group? I don't see how that is so big deal that needs to be pointed out then.

If you mean to come off like a sarcastic opinionated elitist unkind person, then you totally succeeded.

This is the sort of thing that is likely obvious to someone who has spent a lot of time and energy thinking about it, but it not at all intuitive to people without that mindset/experience.

@Rylana thanks for the examples.

Now I have to think about this; as my Magicka NB doesn't have vigor (not nearly enough AP to come close), nor does he use dual weild (magicka - he's all about the destro staff). But what you have done is point out some good principles and given some thought provoking examples.

Thank you.

Fear and locking down healers, thats what id say a magicka NB ought be doing, but glad I could point ya to where the groups like ya to be.

Minno · October 2015

Rylana wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Thanks. But don't you think that given we all have 2 bars for our abilities most of players will most likely have like 80% of these abilities slotted even before they consider joining a group? I don't see how that is so big deal that needs to be pointed out then.

If you mean to come off like a sarcastic opinionated elitist unkind person, then you totally succeeded.

This is the sort of thing that is likely obvious to someone who has spent a lot of time and energy thinking about it, but it not at all intuitive to people without that mindset/experience.

@Rylana thanks for the examples.

Now I have to think about this; as my Magicka NB doesn't have vigor (not nearly enough AP to come close), nor does he use dual weild (magicka - he's all about the destro staff). But what you have done is point out some good principles and given some thought provoking examples.

Thank you.

Fear and locking down healers, thats what id say a magicka NB ought be doing, but glad I could point ya to where the groups like ya to be.

Isn't there a cheap cost NP ulti that adds a defile debuff? ( anti health regen)

Pchela · October 2015

Minno wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Thanks. But don't you think that given we all have 2 bars for our abilities most of players will most likely have like 80% of these abilities slotted even before they consider joining a group? I don't see how that is so big deal that needs to be pointed out then.

If you mean to come off like a sarcastic opinionated elitist unkind person, then you totally succeeded.

This is the sort of thing that is likely obvious to someone who has spent a lot of time and energy thinking about it, but it not at all intuitive to people without that mindset/experience.

@Rylana thanks for the examples.

Now I have to think about this; as my Magicka NB doesn't have vigor (not nearly enough AP to come close), nor does he use dual weild (magicka - he's all about the destro staff). But what you have done is point out some good principles and given some thought provoking examples.

Thank you.

Fear and locking down healers, thats what id say a magicka NB ought be doing, but glad I could point ya to where the groups like ya to be.

Isn't there a cheap cost NP ulti that adds a defile debuff? ( anti health regen)

soul harvest does that, from assassin line

Rainingblood · October 2015

Depending on the guild, sometimes they will pick up LFG players if the group is small, like during low-pop times of the day. Or there are guilds on NA/PC that have actually began as PUGs and still grab players from zone chat. And there a even the rare players like Koolio who do a damn good job leading entire groups of puggers to victory. And he does it with no voice system at all!

As others have said, a key factor is the ability and flexibility to play a group play style that includes using abilities that help the group, be it AoE abilities, or group buffs/debuffs. Just swap skills out, I do it all the time because sometimes I run around solo, and when I'm running with the guild I swap between DPS and healing, depending on who's running that day. It also means doing exactly what the leader asks, because one weak link can get the entire group wiped. Some other "group play" elements are: knowing the correct siege to use in a situation, having a crap-ton of soul gems and using them to rez, knowing not to cast while stealthed, not attacking a random enemy player passing by when the group is trying to be undetected... you get the idea.

Bottom line is that if someone wants to play with a skilled group, then you'll need to know how to play with a skilled group. Otherwise, keep doing what you're doing and have fun in solo or small group play. A lot of the top PvP guild leadership aren't going to ruin the rest of the groups night by inviting an unknown. But if you play solo along side them enough and show competancy, they might invite you to join. And if you happen to be the PUG who got lucky and was invited to the guild group, you can guarantee that you will never be invited again if you can't at least stay on crown.

-Aelfgrim

Telel · October 2015

Telel tends to not let random people into their groups for various reasons. Most of the fairly obvious ones have already been listed. I.E Refusing to place siege, not wanting to get on TS AND not reading chat, running off from the group they were begging for, etc, etc.

Then there is also the fact that ,sadly, a number of the LFGers are lazy players who simply want to leech from others. Some will even go so far as to abandon groups below a 'good number' and then complain about it. That they then turn down Telel's suggestion that they lead their own groups does nothing to encourage Khajiit in leading duck herds.

But the biggest actual reason that this one does not lead duck herds more often is quite simple. They actually do not wish to be in charge or tell people what to do. Many find this amusing considering Telel's well known zone chat antics but they would much rather be off shooting pacters in the knee and then running away instead of wrangling a bunch of icons, and trying to motivate everyone when the chips are down.

After all when the group wipes it's ultimately the leader who has to stand back up and keep things going. This becomes even harder when dealing with strangers who often require extra attention. Telel is not very good at being William Massachusetts.

As such they find that they simply have no motivation to take responsibility for the fun of people who find it to difficult to pass the rite of passage that can get any interested PVPer into Children of Hircine. A ritual Telel is often seen posting every time multiple people begin spamming LFG over all chat channels.

So by limiting this one's responsibilities to those who have passed the 'arduous' tasks required to join COH Khajiit insures that they'll at least have people that have shown they want to stand on their own. This makes the stress of group leadership more bearable.

And if someone doesn't like that... Telel encourages them to do better than the humble efforts of one mediocre player.

Or they can start paying this one's expenses at which point Telel will be a good little employee and lead groups the way they dictate.

Jura23 · October 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Thanks. But don't you think that given we all have 2 bars for our abilities most of players will most likely have like 80% of these abilities slotted even before they consider joining a group? I don't see how that is so big deal that needs to be pointed out then.

If you mean to come off like a sarcastic opinionated elitist unkind person, then you totally succeeded.

This is the sort of thing that is likely obvious to someone who has spent a lot of time and energy thinking about it, but it not at all intuitive to people without that mindset/experience.

@Rylana thanks for the examples.

Now I have to think about this; as my Magicka NB doesn't have vigor (not nearly enough AP to come close), nor does he use dual weild (magicka - he's all about the destro staff). But what you have done is point out some good principles and given some thought provoking examples.

Thank you.

No, I didn't mean to offend you. I'm speaking primarily from Templar pow, the other classes I see a bit more from a distance than Templars. But I dare to say that 95% magicka Templars out there have healing bar and use most of those skills. I think they don't need somebody else to tell them these are good skills. And you don't have to be super experienced to figure that out.

Actually I think I did the opposite of being elitist. I'm not the one assuming ppl don't know how to play their toons.

Rainingblood · October 2015

Rylana wrote: »

DK (Stam Build) - Vigor, Igneous Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Steel Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Take Flight/Standard
Temp (Mag Build) - BoL, Purge, Channel Focus, Repentance, Magelight == Nova (either morph)/Heal Ulti
NB (Stam Build) - Fear, PowerExtract, Vigor, Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Veil/Barrier
Sorc (Mag Build) - Streak, Thundering, Mines, Det, Liquid Lightning == negate/barrier

Along these examples for the OP, when I'm healing on my Temp, I slot: Healing Springs - Rapid Rej - Purifying Rit - BoL - Magelight == Barrier (which I will slot on both bars so I don't fat-finger and waste my Ulti before mine is called

)

When I'm soloing, or even small group play, I'll have something different. I don't respec, it's just swapping out skills. Adn it you think that's too hard, you can download an addon that will change it with a click of a button.

Rainingblood · October 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

No, I didn't mean to offend you. I'm speaking primarily from Templar pow, the other classes I see a bit more from a distance than Templars. But I dare to say that 95% magicka Templars out there have healing bar and use most of those skills. I think they don't need somebody else to tell them these are good skills. And you don't have to be super experienced to figure that out.

Actually I think I did the opposite of being elitist. I'm not the one assuming ppl don't know how to play their toons.

Firstly, there are more players out there that don't know how to play with an organized PvP group then there are that do, so it's more of a presumption than an assumption.

Secondly, I play a Templar as well. and as you can see from my previous post, I showed an example of my heal bar. Do I prefer healing? No. Healing in this game isn't as fun as in other games, but I do it when it helps the group out. I mainly DPS/support, and I only need to swap out a couple single-target abilities to AoE abilities, which isn't much different than my usual setup.

@Telel +1 for Rping your post

eliisra · October 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Being in a group like this is overrated. They make you run certain skills or you get cussed out. There is a ton of standing around and doing nothing. Get on their teamspeak and be exposed to all kinds of strange discussions.

That being said, when they are fighting they will usually win.

Good point. Personally I hate to change my build according to someone else's needs. I prefer to find ppl who will benefit from my build as it is, made by myself.

I mean, that kind of says it right there. Sounds like you prefer to run your build because it works for solo/small group play, which is fine, but you should realize it will be a big reason why you won't be invited or reinvited to guild groups. Im surprised you would want to join a guild group if you don't want to participate in the group pvp that requires largely group oriented skillbars.

Just out of curiosity, what are these skill bars? How do they look like? I'm wondering how much that differes from "normal" bars.

Here is an example for all four classes (note these may not be universal, are subject to build style and group composition, and a variety of other factors)

DK (Stam Build) - Vigor, Igneous Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Steel Tornado, Flying Blade == Take Flight/Standard
Temp (Mag Build) - BoL, Purge, Channel Focus, Repentance, Magelight == Nova (either morph)/Heal Ulti
NB (Stam Build) - Fear, PowerExtract, Vigor, Tornado, Flying Blade == Veil/Barrier
Sorc (Mag Build) - Streak, Thundering, Mines, Det, Liquid Lightning == negate/barrier

Offbars are always buffs/restostaff heals or optional personal slots. Adapted for situationals.

And expound from there. This was not my idea of the "perfect" four man, this is an example of how a group layout should look. Each skill benefits the group in some way (except for the healer, that channeled focus helps them stay alive and keeps the magicka flowing for heals) through AoE damage or group support or damage mitigation.

Thanks. But don't you think that given we all have 2 bars for our abilities most of players will most likely have like 80% of these abilities slotted even before they consider joining a group? I don't see how that is so big deal that needs to be pointed out then.

It does needs to be pointed out, in my experience.

As a stamina build you're for example expected to slot Retreating Maneuvre to help with raid movement, Caltrops +Vigor and AoE like Bombard or Steel Tornado. Than spam your stuff, as in not only use it when you yourself need speed, heals or see fit. Might also be asked to use Bone Shield. Slot whatever ultimate the raid is lacking. That's usually not Bats, Meteor or Dawnbreaker.

But majority of guys from zone are sneaky cats or bosmers with full single target builds for maximum self-sustain 1v1 and gankerish powa(few Skyrim heroes with 2-Hander doing the immersion thingy). These guys aren't naturally running any of these skills, besides Vigor, if they managed to unlock.

Jura23 · October 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Being in a group like this is overrated. They make you run certain skills or you get cussed out. There is a ton of standing around and doing nothing. Get on their teamspeak and be exposed to all kinds of strange discussions.

That being said, when they are fighting they will usually win.

Good point. Personally I hate to change my build according to someone else's needs. I prefer to find ppl who will benefit from my build as it is, made by myself.

I mean, that kind of says it right there. Sounds like you prefer to run your build because it works for solo/small group play, which is fine, but you should realize it will be a big reason why you won't be invited or reinvited to guild groups. Im surprised you would want to join a guild group if you don't want to participate in the group pvp that requires largely group oriented skillbars.

Just out of curiosity, what are these skill bars? How do they look like? I'm wondering how much that differes from "normal" bars.

Here is an example for all four classes (note these may not be universal, are subject to build style and group composition, and a variety of other factors)

DK (Stam Build) - Vigor, Igneous Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Steel Tornado, Flying Blade == Take Flight/Standard
Temp (Mag Build) - BoL, Purge, Channel Focus, Repentance, Magelight == Nova (either morph)/Heal Ulti
NB (Stam Build) - Fear, PowerExtract, Vigor, Tornado, Flying Blade == Veil/Barrier
Sorc (Mag Build) - Streak, Thundering, Mines, Det, Liquid Lightning == negate/barrier

Offbars are always buffs/restostaff heals or optional personal slots. Adapted for situationals.

And expound from there. This was not my idea of the "perfect" four man, this is an example of how a group layout should look. Each skill benefits the group in some way (except for the healer, that channeled focus helps them stay alive and keeps the magicka flowing for heals) through AoE damage or group support or damage mitigation.

Thanks. But don't you think that given we all have 2 bars for our abilities most of players will most likely have like 80% of these abilities slotted even before they consider joining a group? I don't see how that is so big deal that needs to be pointed out then.

It does needs to be pointed out, in my experience.

As a stamina build you're for example expected to slot Retreating Maneuvre to help with raid movement, Caltrops +Vigor and AoE like Bombard or Steel Tornado. Than spam your stuff, as in not only use it when you yourself need speed, heals or see fit. Might also be asked to use Bone Shield. Slot whatever ultimate the raid is lacking. That's usually not Bats, Meteor or Dawnbreaker.

But majority of guys from zone are sneaky cats or bosmers with full single target builds for maximum self-sustain 1v1 and gankerish powa(few Skyrim heroes with 2-Hander doing the immersion thingy). These guys aren't naturally running any of these skills, besides Vigor, if they managed to unlock.

I enjoy your posts. Thanks for reply.

newtinmpls · October 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Fear and locking down healers, thats what id say a magicka NB ought be doing, but glad I could point ya to where the groups like ya to be.

I don't have fear ... crap I did say NB didn't I.... brain not working. I have a magicka DK.

So for spellcasters (esp healers) I use the ... dangit .. crushing whatever that interupts. For NB's I chain them and use talons and let the DPS flatten them.

In IC with our group, I'm usually throwing igneous sheilds around too. It's amazing how many folks "on my side" I can sheild even if we are not formally grouped.

Crystelle · October 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

One of the things that really made guilds like Havoc great...

Havoc nearly ruined this game through their exploiting, and teaching everyone on EP how to exploit.

This game is much better off with them gone.

I literally can't even right now.

Xelophobe · October 2015

Crystelle wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

One of the things that really made guilds like Havoc great...

Havoc nearly ruined this game through their exploiting, and teaching everyone on EP how to exploit.

This game is much better off with them gone.

I literally can't even right now.

Literally laughing out loud rn.

mchermie · October 2015

Just join groups, guilds and do some pvp where you play as a team. That is the only way you are going to understand, after all these good arguments for why you wouldnt be invited to a guild group
Build customization and being willing to addapt is key

Winnamine · October 2015

Minno wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

MountainHound wrote: »

I mean as said lots before, if you are willing to join a guild and play with them constantly for a couple of days/weeks and are able to switch your build around to cater for the group instead of yourself that is awesome. 9/10 a random person from zone joining will not change the way they play and adapt.

Also you need to consider healing and other buffs, it sounds selfish but if you have a decent group of v16s with top gear, 4 healers and 12 dps, if you start to incorporate more dps into the fray say v1 who are "weaker", you will be "leeching" the heals away from the stronger v16 players damaging that groups ability to play against the other top teams. Believe it or not, this is a group's worst nightmare when randoms are among your ranks leeching heals away from the group...

I can see your point, but that's problem of game design that doesn't allow you to target heals. They certainly didn't choose to steal your heals. Everybody is punished by this mechanic.

Not to mention, you don't have to be in group to receive said heals. So the elitist agenda is all that's left; vr16 preference over all
Rather insulting to those that like to pvp only and are punished by the "you must lvl in pve or get wrecked" mentality.

I don't think requiring players in group to be V16 is elitist. If you're not V16, we know that you're not fully geared, you may not have all your skills leveled, you're just not as strong as a V16 player, even with battle leveling.

I don't see how that's insulting to anyone. If you want to play with serious groups, then go do some pve bc serious players level. If you just want to pvp for a few hours a week for fun, then join a group that is more casual. Nothing wrong with either choice, but players should find (or form!) groups that match their playstyles.

Winnamine · October 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Being in a group like this is overrated. They make you run certain skills or you get cussed out. There is a ton of standing around and doing nothing. Get on their teamspeak and be exposed to all kinds of strange discussions.

That being said, when they are fighting they will usually win.

Good point. Personally I hate to change my build according to someone else's needs. I prefer to find ppl who will benefit from my build as it is, made by myself.

I mean, that kind of says it right there. Sounds like you prefer to run your build because it works for solo/small group play, which is fine, but you should realize it will be a big reason why you won't be invited or reinvited to guild groups. Im surprised you would want to join a guild group if you don't want to participate in the group pvp that requires largely group oriented skillbars.

Just out of curiosity, what are these skill bars? How do they look like? I'm wondering how much that differes from "normal" bars.

Here is an example for all four classes (note these may not be universal, are subject to build style and group composition, and a variety of other factors)

DK (Stam Build) - Vigor, Igneous Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Steel Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Take Flight/Standard
Temp (Mag Build) - BoL, Purge, Channel Focus, Repentance, Magelight == Nova (either morph)/Heal Ulti
NB (Stam Build) - Fear, PowerExtract, Vigor, Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Veil/Barrier
Sorc (Mag Build) - Streak, Thundering, Mines, Det, Liquid Lightning == negate/barrier

Offbars are always buffs/restostaff heals or optional personal slots. Adapted for situationals.

And expound from there. This was not my idea of the "perfect" four man, this is an example of how a group layout should look. Each skill benefits the group in some way (except for the healer, that channeled focus helps them stay alive and keeps the magicka flowing for heals) through AoE damage or group support or damage mitigation.

I'd like to argue with you about that templar healer bar, but maybe this isn't the place

Sublime · October 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

I don't see how an extra blade can hurt the cooperation of the team unless it's a complete moron who goes unstealth when everybody is stealth, for example.

You don't want to know how many percent of the Cyrodiil population fit this description.

Rylana · October 2015

Winnamine wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Being in a group like this is overrated. They make you run certain skills or you get cussed out. There is a ton of standing around and doing nothing. Get on their teamspeak and be exposed to all kinds of strange discussions.

That being said, when they are fighting they will usually win.

Good point. Personally I hate to change my build according to someone else's needs. I prefer to find ppl who will benefit from my build as it is, made by myself.

I mean, that kind of says it right there. Sounds like you prefer to run your build because it works for solo/small group play, which is fine, but you should realize it will be a big reason why you won't be invited or reinvited to guild groups. Im surprised you would want to join a guild group if you don't want to participate in the group pvp that requires largely group oriented skillbars.

Just out of curiosity, what are these skill bars? How do they look like? I'm wondering how much that differes from "normal" bars.

Here is an example for all four classes (note these may not be universal, are subject to build style and group composition, and a variety of other factors)

DK (Stam Build) - Vigor, Igneous Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Steel Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Take Flight/Standard
Temp (Mag Build) - BoL, Purge, Channel Focus, Repentance, Magelight == Nova (either morph)/Heal Ulti
NB (Stam Build) - Fear, PowerExtract, Vigor, Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Veil/Barrier
Sorc (Mag Build) - Streak, Thundering, Mines, Det, Liquid Lightning == negate/barrier

Offbars are always buffs/restostaff heals or optional personal slots. Adapted for situationals.

And expound from there. This was not my idea of the "perfect" four man, this is an example of how a group layout should look. Each skill benefits the group in some way (except for the healer, that channeled focus helps them stay alive and keeps the magicka flowing for heals) through AoE damage or group support or damage mitigation.

I'd like to argue with you about that templar healer bar, but maybe this isn't the place

Its just examples lol, i flat out said that. >_> i aint giving away my seekrit hax

Zheg · October 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Being in a group like this is overrated. They make you run certain skills or you get cussed out. There is a ton of standing around and doing nothing. Get on their teamspeak and be exposed to all kinds of strange discussions.

That being said, when they are fighting they will usually win.

Good point. Personally I hate to change my build according to someone else's needs. I prefer to find ppl who will benefit from my build as it is, made by myself.

I mean, that kind of says it right there. Sounds like you prefer to run your build because it works for solo/small group play, which is fine, but you should realize it will be a big reason why you won't be invited or reinvited to guild groups. Im surprised you would want to join a guild group if you don't want to participate in the group pvp that requires largely group oriented skillbars.

Just out of curiosity, what are these skill bars? How do they look like? I'm wondering how much that differes from "normal" bars.

Here is an example for all four classes (note these may not be universal, are subject to build style and group composition, and a variety of other factors)

DK (Stam Build) - Vigor, Igneous Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Steel Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Take Flight/Standard
Temp (Mag Build) - BoL, Purge, Channel Focus, Repentance, Magelight == Nova (either morph)/Heal Ulti
NB (Stam Build) - Fear, PowerExtract, Vigor, Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Veil/Barrier
Sorc (Mag Build) - Streak, Thundering, Mines, Det, Liquid Lightning == negate/barrier

Offbars are always buffs/restostaff heals or optional personal slots. Adapted for situationals.

And expound from there. This was not my idea of the "perfect" four man, this is an example of how a group layout should look. Each skill benefits the group in some way (except for the healer, that channeled focus helps them stay alive and keeps the magicka flowing for heals) through AoE damage or group support or damage mitigation.

I'd like to argue with you about that templar healer bar, but maybe this isn't the place

Its just examples lol, i flat out said that. >_> i aint giving away my seekrit hax

That's what I was hoping. I saw you say power extraction and realized a puppy died somewhere

Rylana · October 2015

Zheg wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Being in a group like this is overrated. They make you run certain skills or you get cussed out. There is a ton of standing around and doing nothing. Get on their teamspeak and be exposed to all kinds of strange discussions.

That being said, when they are fighting they will usually win.

Good point. Personally I hate to change my build according to someone else's needs. I prefer to find ppl who will benefit from my build as it is, made by myself.

I mean, that kind of says it right there. Sounds like you prefer to run your build because it works for solo/small group play, which is fine, but you should realize it will be a big reason why you won't be invited or reinvited to guild groups. Im surprised you would want to join a guild group if you don't want to participate in the group pvp that requires largely group oriented skillbars.

Just out of curiosity, what are these skill bars? How do they look like? I'm wondering how much that differes from "normal" bars.

Here is an example for all four classes (note these may not be universal, are subject to build style and group composition, and a variety of other factors)

DK (Stam Build) - Vigor, Igneous Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Steel Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Take Flight/Standard
Temp (Mag Build) - BoL, Purge, Channel Focus, Repentance, Magelight == Nova (either morph)/Heal Ulti
NB (Stam Build) - Fear, PowerExtract, Vigor, Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Veil/Barrier
Sorc (Mag Build) - Streak, Thundering, Mines, Det, Liquid Lightning == negate/barrier

Offbars are always buffs/restostaff heals or optional personal slots. Adapted for situationals.

And expound from there. This was not my idea of the "perfect" four man, this is an example of how a group layout should look. Each skill benefits the group in some way (except for the healer, that channeled focus helps them stay alive and keeps the magicka flowing for heals) through AoE damage or group support or damage mitigation.

I'd like to argue with you about that templar healer bar, but maybe this isn't the place

Its just examples lol, i flat out said that. >_> i aint giving away my seekrit hax

That's what I was hoping. I saw you say power extraction and realized a puppy died somewhere

I did it for zaz. had to throw in the stamina sap just for him

RDMyers65b14_ESO · October 2015

Let's see. The reason that I don't like to pick up the lfg is that they don't listen and a lot of them, they refuse to get into TS which is required as I can not type and fight at the same time. Mind you, the guild that I run with has a few hearing impaired people, (I have partial hearing impairment myself) so I will try to type out things in group when I can. Sometimes, the game doesn't allow that luxury. Even then, when I am trying to get the group to Chal and I have people who seem to be mysteriously at Roe... It is bad enough when we have those who are in the guild who are just leeching ap and doing naked dancing when we are needing to get the wall up asap... Yes, that happened recently.

If I running a guild only group, I know them and I know I can count on them.

IxSTALKERxI · October 2015

Something that wasn't brought up would just be movement itself. Very easy to get caught when outnumbered, as soon as the leader makes a call you gotta change directions quickly. If retreating is cast on you, you can't do damage or use repentance, or you'll get stuck and die. As a healer you're gonna get focused hard and if you aren't experienced in group play chances are you'll get caught/ die and then the group will have to turn around and make a push for your body etc. It can end up being worse for the group having an extra person who isn't used to running with you. Some of the people I play with I've been pvping with for over a year in this game.

Also if you don't have a maxed out speed horse you're not even going to make it to half the fights. And yeh I can be pretty picky on what builds people run in the guild and what kinda gear they use, but everyone is happy with that because we all have the same mindset and wanna contribute to the best of our abilities.

I run over 4k spell damage buffed on my nb, the abilities I run are in this video plus an example of why you need a speed horse.

https://youtu.be/_A_1jft5x0Q

mjspnrb18_ESO · October 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Being in a group like this is overrated. They make you run certain skills or you get cussed out. There is a ton of standing around and doing nothing. Get on their teamspeak and be exposed to all kinds of strange discussions.

That being said, when they are fighting they will usually win.

Good point. Personally I hate to change my build according to someone else's needs. I prefer to find ppl who will benefit from my build as it is, made by myself.

I mean, that kind of says it right there. Sounds like you prefer to run your build because it works for solo/small group play, which is fine, but you should realize it will be a big reason why you won't be invited or reinvited to guild groups. Im surprised you would want to join a guild group if you don't want to participate in the group pvp that requires largely group oriented skillbars.

Just out of curiosity, what are these skill bars? How do they look like? I'm wondering how much that differes from "normal" bars.

Here is an example for all four classes (note these may not be universal, are subject to build style and group composition, and a variety of other factors)

DK (Stam Build) - Vigor, Igneous Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Steel Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Take Flight/Standard
Temp (Mag Build) - BoL, Purge, Channel Focus, Repentance, Magelight == Nova (either morph)/Heal Ulti
NB (Stam Build) - Fear, PowerExtract, Vigor, Tornado, Flying Blade/wreckblow == Veil/Barrier
Sorc (Mag Build) - Streak, Thundering, Mines, Det, Liquid Lightning == negate/barrier

Offbars are always buffs/restostaff heals or optional personal slots. Adapted for situationals.

And expound from there. This was not my idea of the "perfect" four man, this is an example of how a group layout should look. Each skill benefits the group in some way (except for the healer, that channeled focus helps them stay alive and keeps the magicka flowing for heals) through AoE damage or group support or damage mitigation.

I'd like to argue with you about that templar healer bar, but maybe this isn't the place

Its just examples lol, i flat out said that. >_> i aint giving away my seekrit hax

That's what I was hoping. I saw you say power extraction and realized a puppy died somewhere

I did it for zaz. had to throw in the stamina sap just for him

newtinmpls · October 2015

I get that for some folks it's not "fun" to be patient with the non-60-speed horse, and the non-fully-geared-to-the-nines non-vet-16.

For a lot of folks (of which I am one) we just don't have the time/dedication/money to have those things. So I'm grateful for the leaders who will wait for the stragglers to gather. The ones who will say halfway through the raid "if you are running low on stones/seige, come trade with me" (and this could be due to money or even bag space on the part of the less experienced player).

These things make this game more inclusive more fun.

LarsS · October 2015

Ty for an interesting discussion. I agree with those who point out the difficulties involved by inviting unknown player, to that I can add spies which we have had a few times. Non the less we regularly invite people to our groups, since we want to know the players we invite to the guild.
We do not invite lfg players, but invites to our ts based groups in zone chat. This way of working is more taxing for our raid leaders than the pure guild groups, but it works quite well. Regarding players who do not follow orders or go elsewhere, we have a simple solution, they are removed from the group after a warning. We have no level or experience requirements, if you are willing to learn you are welcome.
This approach does lead to some defeats, due to individual mistakes and sometimes due to many inexperienced players, but people come back another day joins the guild and grows in experience.

Winterpsy · October 2015

Guild leader here.
Main reason, most folks dont speak the language my folks do. If they do speak it they are usually in my guild.

We all talk hungarian.

Cody · October 2015

its due to a tiny bit of elitism. Guild groups prioritize guildies over "randoms" its been that way for quite some time.

The last PvP guild i was in fell apart due to infighting, so I have sworn off PvP guilds, and usually run solo. will ask in zone; if i get something, great; if not, its not a big deal. As long as you know where the action is you can go without a being in a group

Cody · October 2015

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Being in a group like this is overrated. They make you run certain skills or you get cussed out. There is a ton of standing around and doing nothing. Get on their teamspeak and be exposed to all kinds of strange discussions.

That being said, when they are fighting they will usually win.

yeah; groups like this expect complete unquestioning obedience from you. Even if the group leader is screwing up they do not want you calling it out(follow crown right?

) I personally am not like that; if our leader is messing up, im calling it out.

i3ig_Gun · October 2015

The reason I don't do this with randoms is because I wish to stay in guild chat so when other guildies log on I can get them immediately in, and we can continue on with our conversations/good times.