Star Wars Galaxies (Please Devs, Don't Make The Same MIstake)

HighT3chR3dn3ck

I have been cruising the forums and have noticed a very bad element in the forums for which I hope the Devs pay zero attention to.

This is a GREAT game, with GREAT combat mechanics, and an AMAZING PvP system. Don't any of you Devs EVER, EVER, EVER forget that. As far as the quality of games coming out in the last few years, ESO is simply one of the best made games.

Now I'm speaking directly to you ZOS. When Star Wars Galaxies started, it was the most popular MMO, as well as the most populated MMO; and as I played it the base of players was continually growing. However, the developers made one fateful mistake, they listened to their community to much. Eventually a huge update was released in which it completely changed the game into something unrecognizable and almost less than a year later the game went offline. People wanted everything, for nothing and the developers gave it to them.

The cause of this? Every person wanted to be a Jedi. However, according to lore, Jedi were to be SUPER rare, and beyond that they were to be hunted by Bounty Hunters. I loved hunting Jedi. Essentially, everyone wants to be a badass without any work. Everyone believes THEY DESERVE to be a badass. Well, just remember, they don't.

This is a PRIME example of idiocy, laziness, and entitlement at work:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/226341/put-an-end-to-zergs#latest

Basically, this person wants to penalize people for working as a team. I've worked in large 24-(wo)man groups who then coordinated with other large groups to take keeps, push for emperor, and defend. They want a system that breaks up teamwork so they can go around banking people. This is an MMO, solo play is not only discouraged, but you are rightfully penalized for not contributing to the group effort. This is war, with armies. You are a cog into he machine, get used to it.

This is just one of many examples I've found of people wanting something for nothing. Less work, less time, less effort so I can be a lone badass. I truly hope ZOS will stay vigilante against such idiocy. You have a great game, just continue to tweak and update as you've been doing. It's only gotten better since I've been playing the game.

I have great faith in this game, and in the developers to keep it old school and real school; just don't listen to your customers too much... SERIOUSLY!

gibous

Bet this is a dev incognito trying to get out of extra work to fix the game's bugs and balance

Rylana

No one in the SWG Community wanted NGE, OP

In fact the NGE was the very reason SWG failed to hold 70 percent of their subscribers.

I was there for the whole eight years. Dont lie about facts. The day NGE came out half the players quit. Those of us that stayed watched the slow bleeding until finally Lucasarts cancelled the game for TOR. At the end, there were maybe 50k players left out of over a million a year in.

DannyLV702

gibous wrote: »

Bet this is a dev incognito trying to get out of extra work to fix the game's bugs and balance

lol

Publius_Scipio

Rylana wrote: »

No one in the SWG Community wanted NGE, OP

In fact the NGE was the very reason SWG failed to hold 70 percent of their subscribers.

I was there for the whole eight years. Dont lie about facts. The day NGE came out half the players quit. Those of us that stayed watched the slow bleeding until finally Lucasarts cancelled the game for TOR. At the end, there were maybe 50k players left out of over a million a year in.

Now you're out of character. Quick! Where is Zazebra!?

Alucardo

I'm really glad this was brought up. ZOS, I would like a Jedi class in ESO please.

Darnathian

OMG why did you have to make me remember OP.

Loved that game Pre-NGE!!!

Rylana

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

No one in the SWG Community wanted NGE, OP

In fact the NGE was the very reason SWG failed to hold 70 percent of their subscribers.

I was there for the whole eight years. Dont lie about facts. The day NGE came out half the players quit. Those of us that stayed watched the slow bleeding until finally Lucasarts cancelled the game for TOR. At the end, there were maybe 50k players left out of over a million a year in.

Now you're out of character. Quick! Where is Zazebra!?

The point is the OP is dead wrong. The mistake SWG made was listening to their SUITS not their PLAYERS.

The suits saw the success of WoW and wanted to copy it, two years into an existing healthy MMO with a strong playerbase, they literally made it into a new game and everyone soured on it. So much so that many boycotted it. Hell people still boycott SoE to this day over it, over a decade later.

Hell their lead designer flat out told Smedley they would lose the players if they went through with NGE. And he was right. People loved the game because it was an open world sandbox with tons of depth and diversity. They turned it into a garbage truck wow clone themepark, and guess where the players went? WoW.

Publius_Scipio

I don't know anything about any other MMO let alone a Star Wars one. And I don't want to know.

sadownik

Spot on @Rylana i also remember the moment dreaded NGO came. Furthermore those repeating pleads to Z. not to listen to players are absolutly absurd. Z. is at stearing wheel but they should keep the pulse of the community in check.

Frankly speaking all those threads seem to demand that Z. dont listen to other players opinions, but only the ones of the people making those threads.

nimander99

Rylana wrote: »

No one in the SWG Community wanted NGE, OP

In fact the NGE was the very reason SWG failed to hold 70 percent of their subscribers.

I was there for the whole eight years. Dont lie about facts. The day NGE came out half the players quit. Those of us that stayed watched the slow bleeding until finally Lucasarts cancelled the game for TOR. At the end, there were maybe 50k players left out of over a million a year in.

Yeah, the dev's wanted to make SWG like WoW and it killed the game...

MisterBigglesworth

The difference is ESO's NGE already happened... back in June 2014... with patch 1.2.3

So the people complaining nowadays actually want to UNDO the "NGE"

Chesimac

lol youre lucky the devs are agree spamming ur post... any pvper who has played consistently since launch can tell you this game has been getting worse

AbraXuSeXile

Oh SWG how i loved you. No companies got the balls to make sonething like that anymore.

AbraXuSeXile

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

The difference is ESO's NGE already happened... back in June 2014... with patch 1.2.3

So the people complaining nowadays actually want to UNDO the "NGE"

I knew a guy with your name on chimaera, your not him are you?

timidobserver

I don't really understand comparing the colossal, sweeping, full game altering changes that came with NGE in SWG to making zergs less effective in ESO.

Minnesinger

timidobserver wrote: »

I don't really understand comparing the colossal, sweeping, full game altering changes that came with NGE in SWG to making zergs less effective in ESO.

it is the Forums. The truth here is hidden under the sentences of beautiful words and dreadful threats. Looks like we finally got over the faction schism to argue about whose play style is the right one. Follow the conversation here and in 6 months we will have a new topic. Sometimes I do hope the devs read the forums yet some threads just inflate to something crazy or funny. Not necessary this particular thread. Never played the Star Wars game they talk about.

Gyudan

HighT3chR3dn3ck wrote: »

I've worked in large 24-(wo)man groups who then coordinated with other large groups to take keeps, push for emperor, and defend.

Translation:

I've worked in large zergs who then spammed aoe attacks with other large zergs to farm AP and generate lag.

Thanks for your contribution to this game.

HighT3chR3dn3ck

I love the assumptions made thus far.

Firstly, the VAST majority of the community (which is not restricted to your guild, and the elite players) wanted their Jedi character, and wanted it now. On top of that, so many people were frustrated by the complexity of the combat and class system (sound familiar) they cried out for a major overhaul; So we got the NGE.

I was there too bra. Very active on the forums, and I remember. Then NGE hit, and of course it's easy to say you were on the right side of history after the fact, but the truth is most weren't. They wanted it, and once they got it they realized their sins.

I must say, it's no wonder the devs probably stay out these forums as much as possible. How many stories and assumptions were made up about me (being a dev) in the last several posts about my PvP play style (almost no AoE and actually about 50/50 on group and solo bc I love to do both). I have about 140 champion points and I feel like an effective member that part of the team. Not running the show. I hate to group lead. However, I use my skills effectively, understand my class and how it plays. My job is to harass, confuse, and support those around me; not to be a badass swinging an axe in a group of 5 enemies. This is all you want, admit it.

I mean these developers put out an EXCEPTIONAL game, that as far as I can tell has been well supported and tweaked nicely up to this point. The hate and anger derived to them is REDICULOUS. All I can say, is that the game has been getting better since I've been playing it; with the exception of the IC. This messed with the alliance war numbers to much in my opinion and should be a completely separate zone/server. However, I do have every confidence that this will be remedied and some point over the next year.

Next, AoE zerg? Then maybe you should get some healers bra. If you're getting wrecked over, then guess what bra? Your team blows. 99% of the time lag is not an issue for me, and I'm on satellite so you might wanna get off your dial-up son.

DPS, Tanking, AoE, Healing, etc... there's a reason this game has classes. So people have to work together to be an effective team and steamroll anyone that's not in a group or working together. If you can't handle that then go play with yourself.

timidobserver wrote: »

I don't really understand comparing the colossal, sweeping, full game altering changes that came with NGE in SWG to making zergs less effective in ESO.

Then you have no understanding of gaming fundamentals. Teamwork is a fundamental of gameplay, to change this would fundamentally change how people play the game as much as NGE. Furthermore, people didn't fully understand how NGE would change the game either. They only focused on what they would gain, not what they would lose.

P.S. If I was a dev, you can believe I would've shut down at least half the threads out there right now because they are moronic, hateful, and/or toxic. You want me to clean up the forum ZoS? You just let me know.

HighT3chR3dn3ck

Also, yes SWG was the best MMO I ever played, ever... before the NGE. It had an incredible amount of customization and complexity to it that will likely never be rivaled again. If you missed out on SWG then you missed out on one of the greatest works of art ever made.

sadownik

HighT3chR3dn3ck wrote: »

I love the assumptions made thus far.

Firstly, the VAST majority of the community (which is not restricted to your guild, and the elite players) wanted their Jedi character, and wanted it now. On top of that, so many people were frustrated by the complexity of the combat and class system (sound familiar) they cried out for a major overhaul; So we got the NGE.

I was there too bra. Very active on the forums, and I remember. Then NGE hit, and of course it's easy to say you were on the right side of history after the fact, but the truth is most weren't. They wanted it, and once they got it they realized their sins.

I must say, it's no wonder the devs probably stay out these forums as much as possible. How many stories and assumptions were made up about me (being a dev) in the last several posts about my PvP play style (almost no AoE and actually about 50/50 on group and solo bc I love to do both). I have about 140 champion points and I feel like an effective member that part of the team. Not running the show. I hate to group lead. However, I use my skills effectively, understand my class and how it plays. My job is to harass, confuse, and support those around me; not to be a badass swinging an axe in a group of 5 enemies. This is all you want, admit it.

I mean these developers put out an EXCEPTIONAL game, that as far as I can tell has been well supported and tweaked nicely up to this point. The hate and anger derived to them is REDICULOUS. All I can say, is that the game has been getting better since I've been playing it; with the exception of the IC. This messed with the alliance war numbers to much in my opinion and should be a completely separate zone/server. However, I do have every confidence that this will be remedied and some point over the next year.

Next, AoE zerg? Then maybe you should get some healers bra. If you're getting wrecked over, then guess what bra? Your team blows. 99% of the time lag is not an issue for me, and I'm on satellite so you might wanna get off your dial-up son.

DPS, Tanking, AoE, Healing, etc... there's a reason this game has classes. So people have to work together to be an effective team and steamroll anyone that's not in a group or working together. If you can't handle that then go play with yourself.

timidobserver wrote: »

I don't really understand comparing the colossal, sweeping, full game altering changes that came with NGE in SWG to making zergs less effective in ESO.

Then you have no understanding of gaming fundamentals. Teamwork is a fundamental of gameplay, to change this would fundamentally change how people play the game as much as NGE. Furthermore, people didn't fully understand how NGE would change the game either. They only focused on what they would gain, not what they would lose.

P.S. If I was a dev, you can believe I would've shut down at least half the threads out there right now because they are moronic, hateful, and/or toxic. You want me to clean up the forum ZoS? You just let me know.

Mate, i was there and i know everyone wanted to be jedi. FFS who dont want to be one when playing star wars game? But how can you say that players demanded NGO kind of changes is beyond me.

FYI i dont agree with punishing people for going in groups but AOE cap is absurd and must go.

Makkir

Just for clarification...the idea for the NGE came straight down from the top, not from the players. There is actually a post out there someplace (I think on the Crowfall forums) explaining exactly how the NGE came about. Pretty much, Smedley was told that a star wars franchise should have more subscribers than the number they currently had, and he was given direction to make the NGE happen.

Trust me, no one wanted it. Prior to the NGE, the biggest game imbalance was the fact that Jedi were insanely OP compared to other classes, especially when Permadeath went away. They were also a plague to the crafter centric economy in that once everyone started figuring out how to unlock the Jedi class, those Jedi no longer needed to buy armor or weapons. That, and those GD Anti Decay Kits! I played a Bounty Hunter on one toon and armorsmith on the other, and I can also attest not everyone wanted a Jedi.

SirAndy

More time to grind for gear != more skill


You have your logic backwards ...

jrkhan

HighT3chR3dn3ck wrote: »

Then you have no understanding of gaming fundamentals. Teamwork is a fundamental of gameplay, to change this would fundamentally change how people play the game as much as NGE.

I think you are missing the fact that a single player multiboxing 24 characters and spamming 1 button would be just as effective as most groups in the current meta

I'm all in favor of group play - but what we're seeing is a simplistic strategy that is way too effective that prevents a more interesting and dynamic style of group play from emerging.

Though some suggestions for improvement don't hold much water - there are ways of discouraging particular group tactics, without discouraging large groups working together.

Artemisshrikes

HighT3chR3dn3ck wrote: »

I have been cruising the forums and have noticed a very bad element in the forums for which I hope the Devs pay zero attention to.

This is a GREAT game, with GREAT combat mechanics, and an AMAZING PvP system. Don't any of you Devs EVER, EVER, EVER forget that. As far as the quality of games coming out in the last few years, ESO is simply one of the best made games.

Now I'm speaking directly to you ZOS. When Star Wars Galaxies started, it was the most popular MMO, as well as the most populated MMO; and as I played it the base of players was continually growing. However, the developers made one fateful mistake, they listened to their community to much. Eventually a huge update was released in which it completely changed the game into something unrecognizable and almost less than a year later the game went offline. People wanted everything, for nothing and the developers gave it to them.

The cause of this? Every person wanted to be a Jedi. However, according to lore, Jedi were to be SUPER rare, and beyond that they were to be hunted by Bounty Hunters. I loved hunting Jedi. Essentially, everyone wants to be a badass without any work. Everyone believes THEY DESERVE to be a badass. Well, just remember, they don't.

This is a PRIME example of idiocy, laziness, and entitlement at work:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/226341/put-an-end-to-zergs#latest

Basically, this person wants to penalize people for working as a team. I've worked in large 24-(wo)man groups who then coordinated with other large groups to take keeps, push for emperor, and defend. They want a system that breaks up teamwork so they can go around banking people. This is an MMO, solo play is not only discouraged, but you are rightfully penalized for not contributing to the group effort. This is war, with armies. You are a cog into he machine, get used to it.

This is just one of many examples I've found of people wanting something for nothing. Less work, less time, less effort so I can be a lone badass. I truly hope ZOS will stay vigilante against such idiocy. You have a great game, just continue to tweak and update as you've been doing. It's only gotten better since I've been playing the game.

I have great faith in this game, and in the developers to keep it old school and real school; just don't listen to your customers too much... SERIOUSLY!

I loved that game

HighT3chR3dn3ck

sadownik wrote: »

Mate, i was there and i know everyone wanted to be jedi. FFS who dont want to be one when playing star wars game? But how can you say that players demanded NGO kind of changes is beyond me.

FYI i dont agree with punishing people for going in groups but AOE cap is absurd and must go.

Uhm... I was a bounty hunter and I LOVED KILLING JEDI. I only unlocked my force sensitivity so I could add to my skills as a BH. Death to the Jedi.

Anyway, sorry my Imperial side took over there. That's just it though, ANYONE COULD BE JEDI IF THEY PUT IN THE WORK. It was a lot of work not just to get a Jedi, but to level a Jedi as well BC if you died you lost a TON of XP. It was a fabulous Cost vs. Reward system that was somewhat buggy when it was implemented, but I was always on those bounty boards looking to take someone down. I never at any point during playing that game had a desire to be a Jedi.

Jedi = NGE because it was the pinnacle decision to completely over simplify and completely change fundamental gameplay mechanics. Again people wanted thing easy and simple and they got it in spades. It's not a "slippery-slope" in gaming is a mother-F@#!-ing log flume.

iTzStevey

This is why i believe some form of structured pvp (1v1-2v2-3v3 arenas ect) is the best solution to the zerg threads, Cyrodiil was meant to be a place where you group up,take keeps,resources ect with your alliance. But the game can't handle it and a hell of alot of people got bored of it fast (myself included). We know this feature does or has existed in some form for a while now,there's videos of it. Why they refuse to add it is beyond me, but they should realise by now that people only wait for things to be done for so long. I mean come on, this game has been out for like 2 years? Still people are falling through floors,key features refuse to work sometimes(weapon swap anyone?) and the lag is worse than when the game came out...not good.

Hell this is a pvp thread but do they even care about pvp anymore? They cater to the PVE crowd because that's where the most money is and believe me with all these new games coming out they need that money. Console wise a lot of people play the game for pvp because there's no console game like this one, but you can be assured there's one in the works and as soon as thats released....bye bye console players

JaJaLuka

I lost track of this because I never played Galaxies, what is NGE?

Cody

HighT3chR3dn3ck wrote: »

I love the assumptions made thus far.

Firstly, the VAST majority of the community (which is not restricted to your guild, and the elite players) wanted their Jedi character, and wanted it now. On top of that, so many people were frustrated by the complexity of the combat and class system (sound familiar) they cried out for a major overhaul; So we got the NGE.

I was there too bra. Very active on the forums, and I remember. Then NGE hit, and of course it's easy to say you were on the right side of history after the fact, but the truth is most weren't. They wanted it, and once they got it they realized their sins.

I must say, it's no wonder the devs probably stay out these forums as much as possible. How many stories and assumptions were made up about me (being a dev) in the last several posts about my PvP play style (almost no AoE and actually about 50/50 on group and solo bc I love to do both). I have about 140 champion points and I feel like an effective member that part of the team. Not running the show. I hate to group lead. However, I use my skills effectively, understand my class and how it plays. My job is to harass, confuse, and support those around me; not to be a badass swinging an axe in a group of 5 enemies. This is all you want, admit it.

I mean these developers put out an EXCEPTIONAL game, that as far as I can tell has been well supported and tweaked nicely up to this point. The hate and anger derived to them is REDICULOUS. All I can say, is that the game has been getting better since I've been playing it; with the exception of the IC. This messed with the alliance war numbers to much in my opinion and should be a completely separate zone/server. However, I do have every confidence that this will be remedied and some point over the next year.

Next, AoE zerg? Then maybe you should get some healers bra. If you're getting wrecked over, then guess what bra? Your team blows. 99% of the time lag is not an issue for me, and I'm on satellite so you might wanna get off your dial-up son.

DPS, Tanking, AoE, Healing, etc... there's a reason this game has classes. So people have to work together to be an effective team and steamroll anyone that's not in a group or working together. If you can't handle that then go play with yourself.

timidobserver wrote: »

I don't really understand comparing the colossal, sweeping, full game altering changes that came with NGE in SWG to making zergs less effective in ESO.

Then you have no understanding of gaming fundamentals. Teamwork is a fundamental of gameplay, to change this would fundamentally change how people play the game as much as NGE. Furthermore, people didn't fully understand how NGE would change the game either. They only focused on what they would gain, not what they would lose.

P.S. If I was a dev, you can believe I would've shut down at least half the threads out there right now because they are moronic, hateful, and/or toxic. You want me to clean up the forum ZoS? You just let me know.

getting better? Have you not noticed the lag? Do you not realize the issues this game has with abilities, and mechanics such as shield stacking, CC issues, the fact someone can sit there and spam one ability 15 times without stopping? The fact that such a playstyle is superior in a game whose PvP is supposed to be based on resource management? its certainly not hopeless, but it also certainly is not "getting better" heck I still have issues bug and system wise that I had over 9 months ago!:( That is NOT getting better, not by any means.

Lag is not an issue for you? You play in large group battles constantly, and you never experience the potentially game breaking lag? Do you play in a server with little-no population?

this game used to be fantastic, and has the potential to be so once more, but the devs would rather focus on the crown store and a new PvE zone than fixing issues. The Devs are not up to date on their own game; and if they are they sure aren't acting like it. If that is how I feel I am voicing it, I am not going to say all nice things because I am worried I will hurt someone's feelings. They had to have known what they were signing up for when creating a public forum.

Armitas

It should never be about listen to the players, or don't listen to the players. It should be about always listening to the players, and making informed decisions based on the best of professional experience/intuition, player feedback, and reality.

dodgehopper_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm really glad this was brought up. ZOS, I would like a Jedi class in ESO please.

There's no jedi, but you can play a sith sorcerer. OVERLOAD FTW!