Hybrid Builds Cannot work

CP5

so long as skills gain power off of max resources. While watching the We Are ESO stream hybrid builds came up and they talked about how skills scaling off of max resource would work. It came to the point where they talked about having both resources at close numbers how the skills would scale their cost. I feel they missed something however, with how the game scales skills someone with 40k of a resource will be significantly more powerful than someone with a resource split. It doesn't matter if skills scale off of the highest resource, that will only incentivize people to stack one thing even more. If ZOS wants people to play hybrid builds this needs to change.

One idea I think may would work would be to have skills scale based off of the % remaining of a resource. This way if someone has a full resource pool then the skills that scale off of it would gain a lot, and if you have a large pool you can use more skills with this higher bonus. However, if you have a small resource pool but a high regen you can use a few skills with a high power buff but you would quickly loose it by not having a large pool, but again the regen would bring it back quickly. Just a thought to allow people to use hybrid builds somewhat and my opinion on the situation. Thoughts?

lolo_01b16_ESO

It's an interessting idea as it caps damage to some extend.
But I fear it wouldn't help hybrid builds for pve at all. With elemental drain / siphon spirit you'll always be at full magicka, no matter what you do. And then peope would just gear for maximum spell damage to increase their damage as much as possible.

nordickittyhawk

no your right there is more too it... but hyrbids can not be better than a base class of stam or magic n they keep trying to make more sets n skills around hybirds but they dont work

TheDarkShadow

This is why we need solf cap, not a blanket damage and heal nerf. It stop people from stacking just 1 or 2 things.

newtinmpls

Bring back softcaps!!

RoyJade

Yup, hybrid build need softcap or a similar mechanism, like a logarithmic scaling : the more resource/damage you have, the less damage you get from each point. It's the same thing as softcap, but without a flat optimized number (so possibly more build options).

Darkeus

they should make skills based on wep/spell dmg and thats it! no more stamina/magik scaling.

ADarklore

Darkeus wrote: »

they should make skills based on wep/spell dmg and thats it! no more stamina/magik scaling.

I agree and it makes the MOST sense! Having abilities and weaponry scale off of resource pools definitely puts a damper on hybrid builds because you will never be successful dividing your resources because both abilities and weapons will do crap damage.

Imagine if both abilities and weaponry scaled off your highest damage number, whether it be spell damage or weapon damage. Regardless of whether or not it cost Magicka or Stamina, they'd all still scale off highest damage number.

RoyJade

Darkeus wrote: »

they should make skills based on wep/spell dmg and thats it! no more stamina/magik scaling.

That's can work too, indeed. It should be even better than softcap, because we can easily get a good amount of weapon and spell damage at the same time. The rest will be only resources management, or boost for some defensive skill.

Cody

A good start. i would love to go back to the hybrid build I had before 1.6; it was a lot of fun.

if you want my uneducated opinion, I think damage should just scale off of weapon/spell damage. It makes the most sense. I think the game should be designed around something like that. One can have high damage, but low resources; or high resources and low damage. that way if someone wants to get enough magicka to stack damage shields to the point of a 2nd healthbar, they will have to sacrifice their spell damage in exchange for such a high defense; or if one wants to have enough stamina to roll dodge or block a ton of times, they will have to sacrifice damage for it. If one wants to go all into damage, they will have to sacrifice resources; they balance each other out.

this is just in theory of course; the reality is often different.

GreenSoup2HoT

The best way to make hybrid builds possible is to let all skills scale of whichever stat is highest. The skill will still cost whatever it is stated.

For instance on a magicka nightblade, i could use Snipe or Vigor. It would scale in damage/healing towards my max magicka/ spell power/ spell crit... however would still cost stamina.

Or for a stamina nightblade i could use funnel health or any damage magicka abilities like proxy det however it would still cost magicka.

I don't think abilities should change to whichever stat is higher cost wise. You still need to have a magicka or stamina dump.

The problem is trying to go half and half. You will still do lower damage trying to do this. No matter what your skills need to scale off of whatever is highest, they cannot scale off of both. So your going to have one resource pool which is small and one big to pull from.

I_killed_Vivec

I'd say a soft cap is more important than a CP cap.

Emma_Overload

NO SOFTCAPS!

This "problem" could be easily solved by scaling damage off the COMBINED pools of Stamina and Magicka.

MadHatterMike

WAIT!!!. wernt people complaining about the lack of Hybrid builds earlier. I mean isn't that why we have some armors like we do, like the Undaunted armor, or the sets that give magicka on a medium armor build or stam on a light armor build,. Is there no freaking pleasing you cry babies. stop being a freaking baby and if your build doesn't work, maybe it's not the build but YOU not knowing how to play it. If this game is too much take your candy ass back to WOW.

Bloodgharm

MadHatterMike wrote: »

WAIT!!!. wernt people complaining about the lack of Hybrid builds earlier. I mean isn't that why we have some armors like we do, like the Undaunted armor, or the sets that give magicka on a medium armor build or stam on a light armor build,. Is there no freaking pleasing you cry babies. stop being a freaking baby and if your build doesn't work, maybe it's not the build but YOU not knowing how to play it. If this game is too much take your candy ass back to WOW.

Wow...just...I can't even. Sir, how simple minded you must be to type out such a moronic post. You could've just not written anything and been more constructive. This thread is trying to open up different playstyles and still maintain the integrity of the original all mag/all stam builds. Nobody is hurting your game or your build so please kindly butt out of this conversation.

Bloodgharm

Cody wrote: »

A good start. i would love to go back to the hybrid build I had before 1.6; it was a lot of fun.

if you want my uneducated opinion, I think damage should just scale off of weapon/spell damage. It makes the most sense. I think the game should be designed around something like that. One can have high damage, but low resources; or high resources and low damage. that way if someone wants to get enough magicka to stack damage shields to the point of a 2nd healthbar, they will have to sacrifice their spell damage in exchange for such a high defense; or if one wants to have enough stamina to roll dodge or block a ton of times, they will have to sacrifice damage for it. If one wants to go all into damage, they will have to sacrifice resources; they balance each other out.

this is just in theory of course; the reality is often different.

I think that this is a great idea, but one question...

Would ZoS just disregard the spell/wep damage we get from max resources and we just play with lower overall spell damage? They'd have to rework the coding so we stay at the same power level. Either that or boost up the stats from set bonuses and armor passives.

mr_wazzabi

Just remove the resource pool from the damage calculation and only scale damage off weapon and spell damage.

It's such a simple solution.

Cody

MadHatterMike wrote: »

WAIT!!!. wernt people complaining about the lack of Hybrid builds earlier. I mean isn't that why we have some armors like we do, like the Undaunted armor, or the sets that give magicka on a medium armor build or stam on a light armor build,. Is there no freaking pleasing you cry babies. stop being a freaking baby and if your build doesn't work, maybe it's not the build but YOU not knowing how to play it. If this game is too much take your candy ass back to WOW.

i. DO. NOT. LIKE. PVE. I. REFUSE. TO. DO. SOMETHING. I. DONT. LIKE. JUST. TO BE. EFFECTIVE'. I all caped this NOT out of anger, but so you could see the issue with your statement.

GuyNamedSean

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NO SOFTCAPS!

This "problem" could be easily solved by scaling damage off the COMBINED pools of Stamina and Magicka.

Absolutely. That would easily make hybrid builds work. It bothers me so much that the damage your weapons do in this game is scaled off of how much Magicka or Stamina you have. They could also very simply just make it scale off of the actual damage of your weapon. How much of the resource you give yourself should be determined by how much of that resource you actually need to cast your rotations. If we changed this system, then DPS players also wouldn't have to be so squishy to be effective, which beyond opening up for MagiStam builds would open up for players to successfully deal damage while tanking.

newtinmpls

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

It bothers me so much that the damage your weapons do in this game is scaled off of how much Magicka or Stamina you have. They could also very simply just make it scale off of the actual damage of your weapon. .

Or how about your skill with the weapon?

Mumyo

CP5 wrote: »

so long as skills gain power off of max resources. While watching the We Are ESO stream hybrid builds came up and they talked about how skills scaling off of max resource would work. It came to the point where they talked about having both resources at close numbers how the skills would scale their cost. I feel they missed something however, with how the game scales skills someone with 40k of a resource will be significantly more powerful than someone with a resource split. It doesn't matter if skills scale off of the highest resource, that will only incentivize people to stack one thing even more. If ZOS wants people to play hybrid builds this needs to change.

One idea I think may would work would be to have skills scale based off of the % remaining of a resource. This way if someone has a full resource pool then the skills that scale off of it would gain a lot, and if you have a large pool you can use more skills with this higher bonus. However, if you have a small resource pool but a high regen you can use a few skills with a high power buff but you would quickly loose it by not having a large pool, but again the regen would bring it back quickly. Just a thought to allow people to use hybrid builds somewhat and my opinion on the situation. Thoughts?

especially the new bufffood i heard of is a hybridkiller.

GuyNamedSean

newtinmpls wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

It bothers me so much that the damage your weapons do in this game is scaled off of how much Magicka or Stamina you have. They could also very simply just make it scale off of the actual damage of your weapon. .

Or how about your skill with the weapon?

I honestly don't think I should deal more damage than someone that's dual wielding just because my 1H&S is maxed out.

CP5

Mumyo wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

so long as skills gain power off of max resources. While watching the We Are ESO stream hybrid builds came up and they talked about how skills scaling off of max resource would work. It came to the point where they talked about having both resources at close numbers how the skills would scale their cost. I feel they missed something however, with how the game scales skills someone with 40k of a resource will be significantly more powerful than someone with a resource split. It doesn't matter if skills scale off of the highest resource, that will only incentivize people to stack one thing even more. If ZOS wants people to play hybrid builds this needs to change.

One idea I think may would work would be to have skills scale based off of the % remaining of a resource. This way if someone has a full resource pool then the skills that scale off of it would gain a lot, and if you have a large pool you can use more skills with this higher bonus. However, if you have a small resource pool but a high regen you can use a few skills with a high power buff but you would quickly loose it by not having a large pool, but again the regen would bring it back quickly. Just a thought to allow people to use hybrid builds somewhat and my opinion on the situation. Thoughts?

especially the new bufffood i heard of is a hybridkiller.

If I recall the new food coming is max health with regen to either one or all stats. I don't see that they will be much of a problem since it gives max health, but if they gave food that buffed max health/stamina with regen then there would be less incentive to mix the two unless the foods only gave max for one then regen for the other.

Mumyo

CP5 wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

so long as skills gain power off of max resources. While watching the We Are ESO stream hybrid builds came up and they talked about how skills scaling off of max resource would work. It came to the point where they talked about having both resources at close numbers how the skills would scale their cost. I feel they missed something however, with how the game scales skills someone with 40k of a resource will be significantly more powerful than someone with a resource split. It doesn't matter if skills scale off of the highest resource, that will only incentivize people to stack one thing even more. If ZOS wants people to play hybrid builds this needs to change.

One idea I think may would work would be to have skills scale based off of the % remaining of a resource. This way if someone has a full resource pool then the skills that scale off of it would gain a lot, and if you have a large pool you can use more skills with this higher bonus. However, if you have a small resource pool but a high regen you can use a few skills with a high power buff but you would quickly loose it by not having a large pool, but again the regen would bring it back quickly. Just a thought to allow people to use hybrid builds somewhat and my opinion on the situation. Thoughts?

especially the new bufffood i heard of is a hybridkiller.

If I recall the new food coming is max health with regen to either one or all stats. I don't see that they will be much of a problem since it gives max health, but if they gave food that buffed max health/stamina with regen then there would be less incentive to mix the two unless the foods only gave max for one then regen for the other.

dont wanna say anything wrong so this is just something i was told.. there will be bufffood buffing max stamina and staminaregen for example. I'd gladly go for that.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

a really simple solution would be that spellpower gives spellpower and weaponpower gives weaponpower, and pools are just pools aka rocketscience solution