Give Templar's Mobility/Stronger Defense.

Vangy

BRogueNZ wrote: »

ZOS. Please place more doors and passageways everywhere. thank you

Really... My whole composition and this is all you took away?? I really am not trolling and am trying to help. For clarity here;

There are tons of doors and narrow passages in IC lol. If you want to do this in open world cyro you have to change strategy since cyro by design is an open world group pvp combat in which Templars are a huuuuge asset. If you want to run around solo (like my dk) you can! Pick the location for your fights and use terrain to your advantage. Pull back to resources and use the npcs. Don't get caught out by huge Zergs. Carry detect pots to wreck camping ganking scum. Scout areas like crack wood delve for opponents. U could even arrange for 1v1 duels if this floats your boat and Templars/dks are arguably the strongest duellers.

Again, play to your strengths.

BRogueNZ

Vangy wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

ZOS. Please place more doors and passageways everywhere. thank you

Really... My whole composition and this is all you took away?? I really am not trolling and am trying to help. For clarity here;

There are tons of doors and narrow passages in IC lol. If you want to do this in open world cyro you have to change strategy since cyro by design is an open world group pvp combat in which Templars are a huuuuge asset. If you want to run around solo (like my dk) you can! Pick the location for your fights and use terrain to your advantage. Pull back to resources and use the npcs. Don't get caught out by huge Zergs. Carry detect pots to wreck camping ganking scum. Scout areas like crack wood delve for opponents. U could even arrange for 1v1 duels if this floats your boat and Templars/dks are arguably the strongest duellers.

Again, play to your strengths.

Was kidding.

I don't mind really, I use rapid, speed and immovability pots so while it would be nice if I had a magicka based after burner i'll make do.

Zinaroth

Vangy wrote: »

This whole lack of mobility issue is because people want to 1vX in a particular way that is not by their class design imo.
For example I use a dk(don't have a templar) but the issues are the same. We have mitigation and resource regen vs templar heals. I don't expect my dk to run in to 10 people get to kill 2 and then escape. With him it's a kill or be killed. That being said it doesn't mean you cannot take on a bigger group alone ( or with a few friends). I've taken on 3v1s and won.

For example I roll with 2 templar friends. We've taken down groups of 15 before. We hit them as they are going through a choke point like a narrow doorway. Kill 2 or 3 stragglers behind and hold the passage. Have u ever seen the damage 2 competent Templars with immovabiltiy pots do while spamming jabs in a narrow area? There is no room to dodge and ur only option is to back away. Coupled with their self healing thyre pretty much unkillable unless someone manages to flank them. Know your class and play to its strengths. Don't try to play like a camping/ganking NB/sorc.

Of course If you are using a NB or a sorc your playstyle would be vastly different. On my NB I can engage huge zergs alone and QQ one or two of them and get away easily because well... He's a night blade. The class concept was designed as such. Same goes for sorcs mobility. I wouldn't expect my NB to do what my dk can the same way I don't expect my dk to do what my NB can. I adjust how I engage and my playstyle to suit my class/build.

And herein lies the problem of some classes being able to pull off stuff that is vastly more effective than other classes. I play a templar and absolutely despise that I have to play in a group to reach my maximum potential, whereas other classes do equally good in groups and solo.

It's a genuine problem eventhough Templars have their strengths in other areas.

Also Templars can't bunker down anymore like a DK, we lost the ability to do that in 1.6. I still see DKs effectively going turtle mode and killing people, Templars can't do that anymore, not from my experience. I could however be proven wrong.

Vangy

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

This whole lack of mobility issue is because people want to 1vX in a particular way that is not by their class design imo.
For example I use a dk(don't have a templar) but the issues are the same. We have mitigation and resource regen vs templar heals. I don't expect my dk to run in to 10 people get to kill 2 and then escape. With him it's a kill or be killed. That being said it doesn't mean you cannot take on a bigger group alone ( or with a few friends). I've taken on 3v1s and won.

For example I roll with 2 templar friends. We've taken down groups of 15 before. We hit them as they are going through a choke point like a narrow doorway. Kill 2 or 3 stragglers behind and hold the passage. Have u ever seen the damage 2 competent Templars with immovabiltiy pots do while spamming jabs in a narrow area? There is no room to dodge and ur only option is to back away. Coupled with their self healing thyre pretty much unkillable unless someone manages to flank them. Know your class and play to its strengths. Don't try to play like a camping/ganking NB/sorc.

Of course If you are using a NB or a sorc your playstyle would be vastly different. On my NB I can engage huge zergs alone and QQ one or two of them and get away easily because well... He's a night blade. The class concept was designed as such. Same goes for sorcs mobility. I wouldn't expect my NB to do what my dk can the same way I don't expect my dk to do what my NB can. I adjust how I engage and my playstyle to suit my class/build.

And herein lies the problem of some classes being able to pull off stuff that is vastly more effective than other classes. I play a templar and absolutely despise that I have to play in a group to reach my maximum potential, whereas other classes do equally good in groups and solo.

It's a genuine problem eventhough Templars have their strengths in other areas.

Also Templars can't bunker down anymore like a DK, we lost the ability to do that in 1.6. I still see DKs effectively going turtle mode and killing people, Templars can't do that anymore, not from my experience. I could however be proven wrong.

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar. I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

Zinaroth

Vangy wrote: »

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but commenting on a threat regarding a class, which you have no experience with, does seeem a bit off.

Vangy wrote: »

I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Sure they can outheal more damage, but they won't be killing anything. A DK can go super defensive and still be able to kill people through various CCs and damage abilities, which are all instant casts mind you.

Vangy wrote: »

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

It is a genuine problem that Templars are so superior at healing. It tunnels them into the healing role for every aspect of the game and renders all other classes undesirable healers.

DKs are popular tanks but I do believe that NBs make better tanks this patch due to their amazing rescource management, which is even more important now after the change to blocking.

k2blader

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Nah y'all can heal

Made me lol.

The most annoying thing about templar threads is how much sorcs come up, e.g. "but sorcs can ___ so we should have ___."

SemiD4rkness

Amazing, templars can heal... Thats the excuse dor templars being overall bad at pvp.. What about stamina based ones?! Whats your excuse for us to suck vs the more powerfull classes...

Zinaroth

k2blader wrote: »

The most annoying thing about templar threads is how much sorcs come up, e.g. "but sorcs can ___ so we should have ___."

The most annoying thing about sorcs is that they can do everything we should be able to do.

terrasight

Give Templars more defense...funny... ^^

Vangy

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but commenting on a threat regarding a class, which you have no experience with, does seeem a bit off.

Vangy wrote: »

I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Sure they can outheal more damage, but they won't be killing anything. A DK can go super defensive and still be able to kill people through various CCs and damage abilities, which are all instant casts mind you.

Vangy wrote: »

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

It is a genuine problem that Templars are so superior at healing. It tunnels them into the healing role for every aspect of the game and renders all other classes undesirable healers.

DKs are popular tanks but I do believe that NBs make better tanks this patch due to their amazing rescource management, which is even more important now after the change to blocking.

You would want people's opinions regardless of whether they play "on" the class or "with" the class no? Like this would lead to a more balanced opinion pool and is always good for discussion imo (discounting the trolls). And no dks can't go super defensive and still kill. If I'm holding block and spamming earthen heart tree skills to keep myself alive (im a stam dk), my resources are locked to surviving (stam for block and magicka to regen stam), very similar to my templar friends using magicka to sustain healing. You can only go on the counter when someone slips up and gives u an opening. Very akin to my friends healing on their templar and then popping his spear charge into his jabs. He does do this very well I've noticed. We only die when we get caught well out of place by a much larger group. Which I feel is completely normal

Zinaroth

Vangy wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but commenting on a threat regarding a class, which you have no experience with, does seeem a bit off.

Vangy wrote: »

I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Sure they can outheal more damage, but they won't be killing anything. A DK can go super defensive and still be able to kill people through various CCs and damage abilities, which are all instant casts mind you.

Vangy wrote: »

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

It is a genuine problem that Templars are so superior at healing. It tunnels them into the healing role for every aspect of the game and renders all other classes undesirable healers.

DKs are popular tanks but I do believe that NBs make better tanks this patch due to their amazing rescource management, which is even more important now after the change to blocking.

You would want people's opinions regardless of whether they play "on" the class or "with" the class no? Like this would lead to a more balanced opinion pool and is always good for discussion imo (discounting the trolls). And no dks can't go super defensive and still kill. If I'm holding block and spamming earthen heart tree skills to keep myself alive (im a stam dk), my resources are locked to surviving (stam for block and magicka to regen stam), very similar to my templar friends using magicka to sustain healing. You can only go on the counter when someone slips up and gives u an opening. Very akin to my friends healing on their templar and then popping his spear charge into his jabs. He does do this very well I've noticed. We only die when we get caught well out of place by a much larger group. Which I feel is completely normal

Yesterday I encountered a DK which permablocked while pumping out damage through reflects, AoE on the ground, Talons and Whips. A templar need to drop block to deal proper damage, that was my point.

And yes you're right, different opinions give a varied view on the subject.

SeptimusDova

Templars need Meow Emote

Vangy

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but commenting on a threat regarding a class, which you have no experience with, does seeem a bit off.

Vangy wrote: »

I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Sure they can outheal more damage, but they won't be killing anything. A DK can go super defensive and still be able to kill people through various CCs and damage abilities, which are all instant casts mind you.

Vangy wrote: »

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

It is a genuine problem that Templars are so superior at healing. It tunnels them into the healing role for every aspect of the game and renders all other classes undesirable healers.

DKs are popular tanks but I do believe that NBs make better tanks this patch due to their amazing rescource management, which is even more important now after the change to blocking.

You would want people's opinions regardless of whether they play "on" the class or "with" the class no? Like this would lead to a more balanced opinion pool and is always good for discussion imo (discounting the trolls). And no dks can't go super defensive and still kill. If I'm holding block and spamming earthen heart tree skills to keep myself alive (im a stam dk), my resources are locked to surviving (stam for block and magicka to regen stam), very similar to my templar friends using magicka to sustain healing. You can only go on the counter when someone slips up and gives u an opening. Very akin to my friends healing on their templar and then popping his spear charge into his jabs. He does do this very well I've noticed. We only die when we get caught well out of place by a much larger group. Which I feel is completely normal

Yesterday I encountered a DK which permablocked while pumping out damage through reflects, AoE on the ground, Talons and Whips. A templar need to drop block to deal proper damage, that was my point.

And yes you're right, different opinions give a varied view on the subject.

Wait from what your telling me it seems that a magicka dk is in question. That build is arguably the one that needs the most help. A single purge and half of their skill tree dots are useless

Salmonoid

CrowsDescend wrote: »

@ZOS We need a passive or a spell that increases our movement speed.

Nightblades and Sorcs are mobile, Templars and Dragonknights are not.

Their skill set is based around this, if you want to play a more mobile character then play a more mobile class.
Making every class have the same ability with a different name is the stupidest *** anyone could ever suggest.

BuggeX

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but commenting on a threat regarding a class, which you have no experience with, does seeem a bit off.

Vangy wrote: »

I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Sure they can outheal more damage, but they won't be killing anything. A DK can go super defensive and still be able to kill people through various CCs and damage abilities, which are all instant casts mind you.

Vangy wrote: »

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

It is a genuine problem that Templars are so superior at healing. It tunnels them into the healing role for every aspect of the game and renders all other classes undesirable healers.

DKs are popular tanks but I do believe that NBs make better tanks this patch due to their amazing rescource management, which is even more important now after the change to blocking.

You would want people's opinions regardless of whether they play "on" the class or "with" the class no? Like this would lead to a more balanced opinion pool and is always good for discussion imo (discounting the trolls). And no dks can't go super defensive and still kill. If I'm holding block and spamming earthen heart tree skills to keep myself alive (im a stam dk), my resources are locked to surviving (stam for block and magicka to regen stam), very similar to my templar friends using magicka to sustain healing. You can only go on the counter when someone slips up and gives u an opening. Very akin to my friends healing on their templar and then popping his spear charge into his jabs. He does do this very well I've noticed. We only die when we get caught well out of place by a much larger group. Which I feel is completely normal

Yesterday I encountered a DK which permablocked while pumping out damage through reflects, AoE on the ground, Talons and Whips. A templar need to drop block to deal proper damage, that was my point.

And yes you're right, different opinions give a varied view on the subject.

then use, JESUSFUCKINGBEAM.

not blockable
not reflectable

Zinaroth

Vangy wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but commenting on a threat regarding a class, which you have no experience with, does seeem a bit off.

Vangy wrote: »

I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Sure they can outheal more damage, but they won't be killing anything. A DK can go super defensive and still be able to kill people through various CCs and damage abilities, which are all instant casts mind you.

Vangy wrote: »

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

It is a genuine problem that Templars are so superior at healing. It tunnels them into the healing role for every aspect of the game and renders all other classes undesirable healers.

DKs are popular tanks but I do believe that NBs make better tanks this patch due to their amazing rescource management, which is even more important now after the change to blocking.

You would want people's opinions regardless of whether they play "on" the class or "with" the class no? Like this would lead to a more balanced opinion pool and is always good for discussion imo (discounting the trolls). And no dks can't go super defensive and still kill. If I'm holding block and spamming earthen heart tree skills to keep myself alive (im a stam dk), my resources are locked to surviving (stam for block and magicka to regen stam), very similar to my templar friends using magicka to sustain healing. You can only go on the counter when someone slips up and gives u an opening. Very akin to my friends healing on their templar and then popping his spear charge into his jabs. He does do this very well I've noticed. We only die when we get caught well out of place by a much larger group. Which I feel is completely normal

Yesterday I encountered a DK which permablocked while pumping out damage through reflects, AoE on the ground, Talons and Whips. A templar need to drop block to deal proper damage, that was my point.

And yes you're right, different opinions give a varied view on the subject.

Wait from what your telling me it seems that a magicka dk is in question. That build is arguably the one that needs the most help. A single purge and half of their skill tree dots are useless

No, and I agree, except for stamina templars which are God awful atm too.

BuggeX wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but commenting on a threat regarding a class, which you have no experience with, does seeem a bit off.

Vangy wrote: »

I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Sure they can outheal more damage, but they won't be killing anything. A DK can go super defensive and still be able to kill people through various CCs and damage abilities, which are all instant casts mind you.

Vangy wrote: »

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

It is a genuine problem that Templars are so superior at healing. It tunnels them into the healing role for every aspect of the game and renders all other classes undesirable healers.

DKs are popular tanks but I do believe that NBs make better tanks this patch due to their amazing rescource management, which is even more important now after the change to blocking.

You would want people's opinions regardless of whether they play "on" the class or "with" the class no? Like this would lead to a more balanced opinion pool and is always good for discussion imo (discounting the trolls). And no dks can't go super defensive and still kill. If I'm holding block and spamming earthen heart tree skills to keep myself alive (im a stam dk), my resources are locked to surviving (stam for block and magicka to regen stam), very similar to my templar friends using magicka to sustain healing. You can only go on the counter when someone slips up and gives u an opening. Very akin to my friends healing on their templar and then popping his spear charge into his jabs. He does do this very well I've noticed. We only die when we get caught well out of place by a much larger group. Which I feel is completely normal

Yesterday I encountered a DK which permablocked while pumping out damage through reflects, AoE on the ground, Talons and Whips. A templar need to drop block to deal proper damage, that was my point.

And yes you're right, different opinions give a varied view on the subject.

then use, JESUSFUCKINGBEAM.

not blockable
not reflectable

Dodgeable though. Also I play as stamina, so yeah...
Talons really *** me over, I spend every GCD on Purify.

dday3six

Giving everyone mobility makes classes lose distinctive qualities through over homogenization. I think some better CC, defensive skills, and damage mitigation would be a better way to address the issue.

Zinaroth

dday3six wrote: »

Giving everyone mobility makes classes lose distinctive qualities through over homogenization. I think some better CC, defensive skills, and damage mitigation would be a better way to address the issue.

That would be a different approach that I could understand aswell. But that would mean Templars and DKs would have to be more potent in face to face combat which people would complain about aswell.

But stuff like giving Templars more sustain and having their self buff follow them around instead of being on the ground, giving them more instant cast abilities and replacing the two almost useless ulties with something good would go a long way to achieve this.

I would much more prefer to be a tanky heavy hitting dude, than relying on kiting and surprise.

Molag_Crow

A lot of great comments here, yeah.. maybe movement speed wouldn't benefit Templar's as much as a stronger defense or CC that doesn't collide. I personally think having blazing shield's strength from max health is a bad idea, unless it was like 40%+ of max health instead of 15% but with a much less Damage return to enemies, I don't know really.

Agreed that Channeled Focus does suck in PvP, since it's glued to one spot anyway, which is why you're probably better off putting BoL on both bars instead of CF, since any kind of armor/spell resist decrease (like Mark Target) against a Light armor-wearer, like a Templar, is pretty lethal, no matter if you cleanse it for a moment or not -- people are still doing insane damage with enough mobility to not even worry about their own health or defense in most cases, anyway...

I'd recommend a buff to Rune Focus then, make it stick on you for the duration or allow you to be immune to loss of control, or something like that.

tist

Change radiant destruction to fabulously radiant and make the spell a rainbow.

Molag_Crow

tist wrote: »

Change radiant destruction to fabulously radiant and make the spell a rainbow.

Agreed.

Soris

I haven't read the whole thread but I think mobility for templar is not really needed. Templar is warrior class and retreating from battle is non of our business. We should be able to stand our ground along with DKs but what we lack mostly is good defence. BoL alone is simply not enough.

So we need;
-Stronger blazing shield.
-Some aoe cc like blinding flashes.
-Better radiant aura that at least stacks with potions.
-Increased radius and duration for empowering sweep ultimate.
-Longer duration for channeled focus' mobile effect. Something more than 8 seconds.

That's it. When you do these Zeni, you'll fix templar class.

Molag_Crow

Soris wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but I think mobility for templar is not really needed. Templar is warrior class and retreating from battle is non of our business. We should be able to stand our ground along with DKs but what we lack mostly is good defence. BoL alone is simply not enough.

So we need;
-Stronger blazing shield.
-Some aoe cc like blinding flashes.
-Better radiant aura that at least stacks with potions.
-Increased radius and duration for empowering sweep ultimate.
-Longer duration for channeled focus' mobile effect. Something more than 8 seconds.

That's it. When you do these Zeni, you'll fix templar class.

Spot on

Joy_Division

Vangy wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I honestly cannot comment on the state of the templar post 1.6 as I don't have a v16 templar.

I don't mean to be offensive, but commenting on a threat regarding a class, which you have no experience with, does seeem a bit off.

Vangy wrote: »

I can however attest to my templar guild mates turtling ability. Last I recall the 2 of them have about 160 and 370 cp respectively. These guys are bosses. They can sit there and outheal 3 - 5 average skilled people whacking them. Very much akin to my dk being able to take on 3-5 people at a go. This however depends on the opponents skill level I would say. Sometimes I have trouble taking on just one or 2 people because they are hitting me so hard and they are timing their ccs correctly...

Sure they can outheal more damage, but they won't be killing anything. A DK can go super defensive and still be able to kill people through various CCs and damage abilities, which are all instant casts mind you.

Vangy wrote: »

Also as for the effectiveness of solo or group play, I could be wrong but I hardly see any NB healers or dk healers. Most I've seen are Templars and the occasional sorc. Likewise dks seem to be the most popular tanks with a couple of Templars and the very occasional NB tank. I guess we all have areas we are good at and are bad at?

It is a genuine problem that Templars are so superior at healing. It tunnels them into the healing role for every aspect of the game and renders all other classes undesirable healers.

DKs are popular tanks but I do believe that NBs make better tanks this patch due to their amazing rescource management, which is even more important now after the change to blocking.

You would want people's opinions regardless of whether they play "on" the class or "with" the class no? Like this would lead to a more balanced opinion pool and is always good for discussion imo (discounting the trolls). And no dks can't go super defensive and still kill. If I'm holding block and spamming earthen heart tree skills to keep myself alive (im a stam dk), my resources are locked to surviving (stam for block and magicka to regen stam), very similar to my templar friends using magicka to sustain healing. You can only go on the counter when someone slips up and gives u an opening. Very akin to my friends healing on their templar and then popping his spear charge into his jabs. He does do this very well I've noticed. We only die when we get caught well out of place by a much larger group. Which I feel is completely normal

Well, it's one thing to give opinions and it is another to make assertions based on anecdotal evidence from a third-party perspective. You seemed pretty quick to correct what you believed was a mistaken impression about DKs when you said "And no dks can't go super defensive and still kill" and reminded us that a purge neuters an entire skill-line, so you got to expect people to do the same when you give opinions that does not match people's first-hand experience.

As far as the whole play-as-the-class-was-designed idea, was the sorcerer designed in mind to be able to face-tank enemies and have access a heal that is better than Breath of Life? No? Well they can and that how the game has developed. The assumptions of what these classes are "supposed" to do needs to go out the window because those assumptions do not match what it is we are actually playing.

Zinaroth

Soris wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but I think mobility for templar is not really needed. Templar is warrior class and retreating from battle is non of our business. We should be able to stand our ground along with DKs but what we lack mostly is good defence. BoL alone is simply not enough.

So we need;
-Stronger blazing shield.
-Some aoe cc like blinding flashes.
-Better radiant aura that at least stacks with potions.
-Increased radius and duration for empowering sweep ultimate.
-Longer duration for channeled focus' mobile effect. Something more than 8 seconds.

That's it. When you do these Zeni, you'll fix templar class.

I personally just think the Rune Focus and it's morphs should stick to us for the entire duration. Also I would like some more instant cast abilities instead of so many casts or channels. Otherwise I think you are on the right track. Personally I would like to see something done for the stamina templar. I am not sure what but I think asking for a stamina morph for Breath of Life would be too much.

dodgehopper_ESO

CrowsDescend wrote: »

A lot of great comments here, yeah.. maybe movement speed wouldn't benefit Templar's as much as a stronger defense or CC that doesn't collide. I personally think having blazing shield's strength from max health is a bad idea, unless it was like 40%+ of max health instead of 15% but with a much less Damage return to enemies, I don't know really.

Agreed that Channeled Focus does suck in PvP, since it's glued to one spot anyway, which is why you're probably better off putting BoL on both bars instead of CF, since any kind of armor/spell resist decrease (like Mark Target) against a Light armor-wearer, like a Templar, is pretty lethal, no matter if you cleanse it for a moment or not -- people are still doing insane damage with enough mobility to not even worry about their own health or defense in most cases, anyway...

I'd recommend a buff to Rune Focus then, make it stick on you for the duration or allow you to be immune to loss of control, or something like that.

The whole spirit of the class has been beaten to a pulp. Healing is not as good, tanking is not as good, and magic dps was never great but made a little better until it got nerfed again in the latest patch. I agree with you that the Blazing Shield is problematic, as I've stated many times before. They've gutted this ability on many levels. Spike armor+Obsidian Shield on DK's for instance fills a similar but different role as Blazing Shield + Rune focus except that the durations and costs are better, the DK gets advantage of many regenerating passives off of these, and the dk can move as well as buff the whole team. In the case of Sorcs they have hardened ward + lightning form for the same effect and again they are more mobile with much better duration and costs. The nightblade gets Blur + any Shadow effect to do a similar thing. In all these cases, I find the tanking option is better on the other classes. I do not think the issue is with shields having a Health basis, as I personally feel that ALL shields should scale based on the health of the receiver of that shield, and I suggest the same for the scaling of armor/sr from powers as well. Blazing Shield is terrible because its original design was based upon the premise that it does damage as well as shielding. When you compare its cost/second to something like hardened ward or spike armor to maintain its no comparison how inferior the skill is though. Blazing Shield either needs a strong DPS component back for its cost, or it needs a long duration like hardened ward.

One other thing that doesn't get mentioned about a lot of Templar abilities is the Time Component. Templar in particular deals with a lot of hidden cooldowns on abilities, or issues of positioning. Jabs for instance roots you in place and forces you to go through an animation without a block up. Most classes don't have to deal with this, but everyone *** and moans about how much damage it does. Of course it does good damage, its a melee range ability that is channeled and easily exploited or avoided by the opposition. At the end of the Jab animation there is that little awkward stuck in place moment as well, that is easily exploited if timed right. Blazing Shield has a VERY long animation to activate (yes it can be clipped but that still has a time cost unless you macro) and with such a long animation time and short duration you spend 20% of the time it is active waving your hands. The only excuse for this in the early phase of the game was that it had a solid damage backlash to players at melee range. Now that the damage on this skill only tickles except for a minor, unusual, and relatively weak build the whole reason for that short duration is gone. Rune Focus lasts 8 seconds if you are mobile, which is fine actually. The problem is that unlike a class like nightblade which is also gaining other effects (including damage) while it gets a similar armor/sr buff, the Templar only gets the benefits of defense. This is actually a problem the Templar faces throughout, and the choice you have to make in pvp combat. Do I heal myself, or do I actually do damage so I can win? As a templar you are always a CC away from death. The templar player has to be a lot more strategic because everything he does is slow motion. The real issue here is that it isn't fair, and I think in the minds of the developers the reason that Templar was weak in everything but healing is they saw it as the healing class (even if that is not the description of the class when the game started). In fact, even to this day if I understand rightly when you create a Templar they put him in Heavy armor often with a 2hander. The way in which heavy armor works, and templar works are so much different from when the game started though that they don't match what they use to be. The big problem as may people have stated in the past about the class is that it is sluggish, its like all their powers are on heavy narcotics. I love Templar but I do agree they need work, and they really need to revive the Tanking elements of the class, without ruining dps for people who are specced heavy magicka. I've given suggestions before on how to resolve this issue (For all classes). Its a systemic issue in that regard, not a class issue. Once they fix the systemic issue they can make it fair for Templars, and frankly they need to assure that all class lines have good healing solutions. This would remove a lot of the problems the devs have with Templar.

Zinaroth

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

A lot of great comments here, yeah.. maybe movement speed wouldn't benefit Templar's as much as a stronger defense or CC that doesn't collide. I personally think having blazing shield's strength from max health is a bad idea, unless it was like 40%+ of max health instead of 15% but with a much less Damage return to enemies, I don't know really.

Agreed that Channeled Focus does suck in PvP, since it's glued to one spot anyway, which is why you're probably better off putting BoL on both bars instead of CF, since any kind of armor/spell resist decrease (like Mark Target) against a Light armor-wearer, like a Templar, is pretty lethal, no matter if you cleanse it for a moment or not -- people are still doing insane damage with enough mobility to not even worry about their own health or defense in most cases, anyway...

I'd recommend a buff to Rune Focus then, make it stick on you for the duration or allow you to be immune to loss of control, or something like that.

The whole spirit of the class has been beaten to a pulp. Healing is not as good, tanking is not as good, and magic dps was never great but made a little better until it got nerfed again in the latest patch. I agree with you that the Blazing Shield is problematic, as I've stated many times before. They've gutted this ability on many levels. Spike armor+Obsidian Shield on DK's for instance fills a similar but different role as Blazing Shield + Rune focus except that the durations and costs are better, the DK gets advantage of many regenerating passives off of these, and the dk can move as well as buff the whole team. In the case of Sorcs they have hardened ward + lightning form for the same effect and again they are more mobile with much better duration and costs. The nightblade gets Blur + any Shadow effect to do a similar thing. In all these cases, I find the tanking option is better on the other classes. I do not think the issue is with shields having a Health basis, as I personally feel that ALL shields should scale based on the health of the receiver of that shield, and I suggest the same for the scaling of armor/sr from powers as well. Blazing Shield is terrible because its original design was based upon the premise that it does damage as well as shielding. When you compare its cost/second to something like hardened ward or spike armor to maintain its no comparison how inferior the skill is though. Blazing Shield either needs a strong DPS component back for its cost, or it needs a long duration like hardened ward.

One other thing that doesn't get mentioned about a lot of Templar abilities is the Time Component. Templar in particular deals with a lot of hidden cooldowns on abilities, or issues of positioning. Jabs for instance roots you in place and forces you to go through an animation without a block up. Most classes don't have to deal with this, but everyone *** and moans about how much damage it does. Of course it does good damage, its a melee range ability that is channeled and easily exploited or avoided by the opposition. At the end of the Jab animation there is that little awkward stuck in place moment as well, that is easily exploited if timed right. Blazing Shield has a VERY long animation to activate (yes it can be clipped but that still has a time cost unless you macro) and with such a long animation time and short duration you spend 20% of the time it is active waving your hands. The only excuse for this in the early phase of the game was that it had a solid damage backlash to players at melee range. Now that the damage on this skill only tickles except for a minor, unusual, and relatively weak build the whole reason for that short duration is gone. Rune Focus lasts 8 seconds if you are mobile, which is fine actually. The problem is that unlike a class like nightblade which is also gaining other effects (including damage) while it gets a similar armor/sr buff, the Templar only gets the benefits of defense. This is actually a problem the Templar faces throughout, and the choice you have to make in pvp combat. Do I heal myself, or do I actually do damage so I can win? As a templar you are always a CC away from death. The templar player has to be a lot more strategic because everything he does is slow motion. The real issue here is that it isn't fair, and I think in the minds of the developers the reason that Templar was weak in everything but healing is they saw it as the healing class (even if that is not the description of the class when the game started). In fact, even to this day if I understand rightly when you create a Templar they put him in Heavy armor often with a 2hander. The way in which heavy armor works, and templar works are so much different from when the game started though that they don't match what they use to be. The big problem as may people have stated in the past about the class is that it is sluggish, its like all their powers are on heavy narcotics. I love Templar but I do agree they need work, and they really need to revive the Tanking elements of the class, without ruining dps for people who are specced heavy magicka. I've given suggestions before on how to resolve this issue (For all classes). Its a systemic issue in that regard, not a class issue. Once they fix the systemic issue they can make it fair for Templars, and frankly they need to assure that all class lines have good healing solutions. This would remove a lot of the problems the devs have with Templar.

Thank for taking the time and effort with summarizing what is genuinely wrong with the templar class. Beautiful.

Molag_Crow

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

[

The whole spirit of the class has been beaten to a pulp. Healing is not as good, tanking is not as good, and magic dps was never great but made a little better until it got nerfed again in the latest patch. I agree with you that the Blazing Shield is problematic, as I've stated many times before. They've gutted this ability on many levels. Spike armor+Obsidian Shield on DK's for instance fills a similar but different role as Blazing Shield + Rune focus except that the durations and costs are better, the DK gets advantage of many regenerating passives off of these, and the dk can move as well as buff the whole team. In the case of Sorcs they have hardened ward + lightning form for the same effect and again they are more mobile with much better duration and costs. The nightblade gets Blur + any Shadow effect to do a similar thing. In all these cases, I find the tanking option is better on the other classes. I do not think the issue is with shields having a Health basis, as I personally feel that ALL shields should scale based on the health of the receiver of that shield, and I suggest the same for the scaling of armor/sr from powers as well. Blazing Shield is terrible because its original design was based upon the premise that it does damage as well as shielding. When you compare its cost/second to something like hardened ward or spike armor to maintain its no comparison how inferior the skill is though. Blazing Shield either needs a strong DPS component back for its cost, or it needs a long duration like hardened ward.

One other thing that doesn't get mentioned about a lot of Templar abilities is the Time Component. Templar in particular deals with a lot of hidden cooldowns on abilities, or issues of positioning. Jabs for instance roots you in place and forces you to go through an animation without a block up. Most classes don't have to deal with this, but everyone *** and moans about how much damage it does. Of course it does good damage, its a melee range ability that is channeled and easily exploited or avoided by the opposition. At the end of the Jab animation there is that little awkward stuck in place moment as well, that is easily exploited if timed right. Blazing Shield has a VERY long animation to activate (yes it can be clipped but that still has a time cost unless you macro) and with such a long animation time and short duration you spend 20% of the time it is active waving your hands. The only excuse for this in the early phase of the game was that it had a solid damage backlash to players at melee range. Now that the damage on this skill only tickles except for a minor, unusual, and relatively weak build the whole reason for that short duration is gone. Rune Focus lasts 8 seconds if you are mobile, which is fine actually. The problem is that unlike a class like nightblade which is also gaining other effects (including damage) while it gets a similar armor/sr buff, the Templar only gets the benefits of defense. This is actually a problem the Templar faces throughout, and the choice you have to make in pvp combat. Do I heal myself, or do I actually do damage so I can win? As a templar you are always a CC away from death. The templar player has to be a lot more strategic because everything he does is slow motion. The real issue here is that it isn't fair, and I think in the minds of the developers the reason that Templar was weak in everything but healing is they saw it as the healing class (even if that is not the description of the class when the game started). In fact, even to this day if I understand rightly when you create a Templar they put him in Heavy armor often with a 2hander. The way in which heavy armor works, and templar works are so much different from when the game started though that they don't match what they use to be. The big problem as many people have stated in the past about the class is that it is sluggish, its like all their powers are on heavy narcotics. I love Templar but I do agree they need work, and they really need to revive the Tanking elements of the class, without ruining dps for people who are specced heavy magicka. I've given suggestions before on how to resolve this issue (For all classes). Its a systemic issue in that regard, not a class issue. Once they fix the systemic issue they can make it fair for Templars, and frankly they need to assure that all class lines have good healing solutions. This would remove a lot of the problems the devs have with Templar.

I completely agree with everything you've said there, especially the parts I've marked... man, when I was complaining about Wrecking Blow, people kept saying it was a L2P issue when in fact they don't realize that as a Templar, we have to face the opponent with Jabs channeling to do successful damage to them, with the much-helpful knockback at the last jab, and for us to do that, we MUST keep them in our Jab's radius but people were so focused on telling me "DUDE L2P JUST WALK INTO WRECKING BLOW OR WALK THROUGH HIM PROBLEM SOLVED!!" What, so walk into/through Wrecking Blow after Wrecking Blow? I want to at least damage the target you know? holy turdstains. I use Blazing Spears a lot now anyway, but the time that takes to come down and actually stun a player is pretty unreliable in situations like WB spamming.

Ashaerien

I agree, I feel very squishy whether I'm healing or DPSing on my Templar. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, but I don't feel like I have enough abilities as a class or just general survivability while damaging in PvP.

jelliedsoup

Lettigall wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Templars are about stunning and killing very quickly, if you cannot they will spam heal all day.

As a defence this seems pretty good to me.

Please tell what awesome class self heals have stamina templars!

Vigour and rally, just like other stamina builds.

This game was not conceived as stamina based and continues along this line.

So why then you use healing as argument for templar survability? Why templars have relay on non class skills to survive?

As that's how they survive. Temps get a powerful heal