Should Toggles be changed to Long Duration Click Abilities?

GreenSoup2HoT

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No, but here's what SHOULD be changed about toggles:

Toggle's should be persistent through weapon swaps, even when placed on only one bar.

People have been asking for this since launch, and it would solve SO MANY problems with toggles.

I do like your suggestion but then there would be no point to having a cost on these skills. You use it on you once and there you have it.

At least if it had a buff timer there may be the odd situation where it expires and you really need it. However cant risk the cost.

I currently run RML on my buff bar, when im running around looking for people, i have double take and piercing mark. So once i find someone i can mark them or if i need to quickly find someone after i have engaged, i can cloak switch bars pop mage light, mark and go on with my business.

I would gladly accept the change to have a buff timer or have one slot active on both bars. However i am still fine using it on one bar.

I used to say the same about siphoning attacks, however the duration is now really short and difficult to maintain in the thick of things. I would much rather ML stay the way it is then receive some terrible duration.

TheNephilimCrow

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I want radiant mage light to be a minute buff. That way you only need 1 slot for it on your bar.

I'm usually well versed in what you need to maintain things in ESO, but this is new to me. Why are you having to use two slots for Radiant Magelight...?


Edit: Nevermind, just figured out myself right after I posted this.

Islyn

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

I just want toggles to be, you know, toggles. When I turn them on they're on until I turn them off. As it stands they get turned off by the silliest of reasons. No, going thru a door is *NOT* a valid reason for me to cast 2 or 3 "toggles", drain my magicka, and get wailed on by the opponent waiting for me on the other side.

This! Why the hell should it also be on both bars lol I guess it might be op for some things if not but...

hrothbern

But with "long enough" duration.

minimal 20 sec. 60 sec would be better.

dodgehopper_ESO

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Here is my problem with this suggestion and please correct me if I'm wrong but the overarching complaint here is the need to double stack toggle abilities (run the toggle on both bars) to keep the effect. The possible "fix" (and I use this term loosely here) is to transform toggle abilities into long buffs so that they can be run on both bars without needing to slot it twice.

Now here is the error in this line of thinking....(we'll use magelight as an example since its readily available to all classes). Suppose this change is put into effect, how is this beneficial as it means the skill will ultimately run out and then you will have to swap back to the bar where the skill is located to cast it again then switch back to the bar you want. The reality here is that you really want the skill effect for both bars but don't want to slot it for both bars, how is it more beneficial to be forced to swap bars just for one effect only to swap back. Wouldn't it make more sense to run it on the bar for which its needed and not the other if the effect is not needed for both bars?

Now lets assume that the effect is indeed needed for both bars.....how is it more effective to be forced to recast a skill rather than just keep the skill constantly active?

Now for the roleplaying argument....You do realize that it's possible to deactivate the skill at any point of your choosing, so if you feel the skill should have a timer, why not activate the skill when needed then deactivate when not necessary. If the argument is for more interactivity then how is a timer a better means of interactivity than a timer that your set for yourself. this way if you only need a few seconds of a skill you activate it then deactivate it when necessary, instead of ZoS forcing all players to operate off your suggested clock of how long a skill should be active for. Because truth be told no matter how long ZoS sets the timer for, someone will always want it longer or shorter depending on who is doing the complaining in that unnecessary thread.

And lastly the perma buff argument....well this one was already handled quite nicely by another player, who asked, why would a player not just simply use one bar for buffs then the other bar for the intended output. you don't have to fill the entire bar with buffs, you need just enough to make resource management and skill selection a joke (or a bigger joke than it already is, depending on who you ask)

You see the problem with this thread, and what seems to be the better part of this entire forum for that matter, is that players lodge complaints, cries of op, nerf this, change that, this is broken, fix that, buff here, this is too much nerf there....etc with all consideration for only their specific character, class or playstyle. What's most alarming is that other players who share the sentiment all *** to these post to weigh in their two cents, all with complete disregard for the fundamental principles of game design and game balance. Almost as if the idea of game design and game balance were wholly tethered to what that player considers to be "fun". And as is the case for arguably the most subjective point in all of gaming, "WHAT IS FUN," the idea of game design and balance is wholly tethered to what a handful of players feel is "unanimously better for the greater good". Understand, I can link old threads of tanks saying that tanking lacked thought and wasn't fun because all you needed to do was hold block and be a meat shield while the DPS did all the work (and in effect had all the fun). ZoS response to making the act of tanking more "interactive" (again using the term loosely here) was to remove stamina regen from blocking so players had to do more than just block to tank. Now we have threads like, "I used to be a tank like you," or "is tanking in PvE dead?"

All in the name of "FUN?!" I would love to find some of these players and ask them are they having fun now. So here's a follow up suggestion for the people who feel it would be more fun to have toggles with timers so that they need to be recast....instead of asking ZoS to regulate fun for all players, how about if you need the skill on both bars, you use it on both bars, if you only need it on one then run it on the bar you need it on, if you want a timer for roleplaying purpose then for god sakes just turn the skill off when you don't need it. Because ultimately what sounds like "fun" for you, sounds like no stamina regen on blocking to me. Someone is bound to lose when ZoS has to make that distinction for us.

I think you are missing the point. Bound armor is analogous to spike armor, rune focus, or the shadow passive, all of which have cost and cooldown. Clanfears are summons, shades are summons. One has a timer one is a toggle. Many powers have similar effects as a toggle, I'm just wondering how the toggle adds something special to the gameplay. Its a matter of laziness. I still run Repentance on both bars on my Templar often times, just because I use it that much and I want that regeneration. I treat it like a Toggle, but I actually have to click it, and I LIKE that I have to click it. It is just a better gameplay design. I also think skills like magelight would see more use if people could fire and forget it for 30-60 seconds. I'm not demanding that they change it to a click ability, I just think it would be a better system. I'm pretty sure I'm entitled to that opinion. This is not an RP issue at all, but a gameplay issue. Bound Armor would all around be a better skill if it were a clicky, for instance, just my opinion but I'm entitled to it.

mr_wazzabi

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No, but here's what SHOULD be changed about toggles:

Toggle's should be persistent through weapon swaps, even when placed on only one bar.

People have been asking for this since launch, and it would solve SO MANY problems with toggles.

What is zos's stance on this? Design limitation or do they think a toggle ability being active throughout weapon swaps is op?

Jar_Ek

Most toggles would need to be buffed somewhat if they were clickies and that is the main problem as of now. The toggles simply are not as good as two slots, but if they were then they would be op for a single slot. My solution, give them a secondary click power that can be keyboard mapped.