Are tanks dead now? (pvp)

Infinite12

One of my guild mates is having A LOT of trouble in pvp with his stamina tank since Imperial City. The stam nerf to blocking and the healing nerf is just killing him. GDB does nothing for him, he's just constantly dying where as he wasn't before. He's running Black rose and footman (3 pieces of footman because he's trying to get another set right now). He's got two handed and sword and board. He used to be able to tank 1vX no problem before, I saw him do it, but now he just drops in a flash, any ideas guys?

Wing

in pvp tanks are bad, DK's are underperforming, and GDB was hit hard with the healing nerf.

just a culmination of bad things, sorry.

aco5712

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219836/cor-leonis-dk-build-videos-hybrid-pvp-tank-dps

this is my build i use for group play tanking/off dps

Sharkano

It's all about burst builds in pvp. I never play my stam dk in pvp anymore because he's useless, just like your friend. I suspect magicka dk's may be a tad better, but then tanking is out the window. Since I like to tank in pve I am not swapping to magicka for dps, but I feel your friend's pain. ZOS has purposefully destroyed the dk class.

jebuspowers

Not just DK's but tanking in general. They sent out an email before launch outlining the trinity of classes like so:

"Healers? They got all the aggro. F--- 'em."
"Tanks. We don't need those. Nobody does. F--- them in the A."
"DPS? Now that's the future. Make sure people only want to play that. We want people getting gangbanged in pvp when the server can actually handle more than 20 people."

*May or may not be a direct quote.

Personofsecrets

In PVP 1v1 is okay, but in group play tanking isn't super fun and not that big of a contribution. What are you going to do about it @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

aco5712

Personofsecrets wrote: »

In PVP 1v1 is okay, but in group play tanking isn't super fun and not that big of a contribution. What are you going to do about it @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

That's simply not true. I am able to off dps and contribute a fair amount to my group when I am not tanking people. If you want to pvp tank you need to balance yourself between dps and tanking if you want to be more then a meatshield

hmr13.76preeb18_ESO

Infinite12 wrote: »

One of my guild mates is having A LOT of trouble in pvp with his stamina tank since Imperial City. The stam nerf to blocking and the healing nerf is just killing him. GDB does nothing for him, he's just constantly dying where as he wasn't before. He's running Black rose and footman (3 pieces of footman because he's trying to get another set right now). He's got two handed and sword and board. He used to be able to tank 1vX no problem before, I saw him do it, but now he just drops in a flash, any ideas guys?

Only play tank,since the start of the game,I tried different builds and play probably the most problematic class, the dragon Knight (remember how many times NERF) and notice that from the game I'm just already tired,no fun. Before the update I could say that my tank is not very bad (solo killing Atronach is appearing in AA is very easy,the aisle solo to the boss Manticore in the Sanctuary, killing solo the first boss in CoA, and more) Now play hard not because of the content, it's hard because the developers hate my class is a Knight and dragon playing only tanks (sword and shield) in the stamina build. Guys on another (logically) I can't explain and understand all those NERF. I can assume that the impact of PvP( the constant whining on the forum at the Knight and block) tanks In PvP with a shield is nothing to do. All of this overall picture. What are the options? I think all the problems with balance and other things because of the desire of developers to make a system in the game - BE WHOEVER you WANT - If there is a penalty system for using skills and weapons are not in their class or system (Morrowind) would be more order. Need a according to the specifics of your class! Example - NB is basically a murderer , an open battle was not for him!--ha, haa ,ha... Wizard - melee was not for him - LoL. Knights are powerful melee and make great damage against several enemies in ESO it's fantastic (PvP is a good example) My opinion developers need to go back to the essence of classes!

Jura23

I don't think so. I play a templar tank. All I had to do is to boost my stmina and dmg a little bit, but after that I am doing better than before IC. Thx to -50% dmg it's very hard to kill me 1v1 unless you really competent.

13igTyme

In every MMO tanks are bad in pvp. Nothing new.

shugg

I think the point is that the other 2 roles can perform well in pvp and pve in a competitive level but the tank role carnt - they need to fix this - they need to re look at heavy armour as a whole maybe to a passive for 5 bits - while blocking x damage ur damage is increased by x - with the new arena it maked tanking even more devalued

LBxFinalDeath

The best tanks I've seen in PvP are Werewolves now to be honest.

They got a giant durability upgrade, takes a lot from whole groups to put them down now.

Groups are happy to oblige though, they drop everything they are doing including fights to go after the Werewolf.

ku5h

I see a lot of good tanks in PvP, in my opinion they are harder to kill then before 50% dmg reduction, specially the ones that find the smallest gaps where only 2-3ppl can attack them.
With good sustain they can CC break indefenetly, and combine blocking with shields. I have seen them tank 10 ppl for minutes, even they got CCed as soon as they cc immunity expires.

dodgehopper_ESO

13igTyme wrote: »

In every MMO tanks are bad in pvp. Nothing new.

The difference here is that we use to be able to adjust our build with gear a lot more easily than we can do now.

13igTyme

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

In every MMO tanks are bad in pvp. Nothing new.

The difference here is that we use to be able to adjust our build with gear a lot more easily than we can do now.

There is a difference between being tanky and being a tank. Being tanky by switching gear or skills is fine in PvP, being a tank is pointless. A tank is meant to take the attention(taunt) and damage from enemies. In pvp a tank serves no purpose, most of the time on every MMO I've ever seen they are ignored. Because there is no point is wasting time attacking them, they aren't going to do damage and can't heal. In this game you can be a healer or a dps and be tanky, but not a tank, it's pointless.

dodgehopper_ESO

13igTyme wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

In every MMO tanks are bad in pvp. Nothing new.

The difference here is that we use to be able to adjust our build with gear a lot more easily than we can do now.

There is a difference between being tanky and being a tank. Being tanky by switching gear or skills is fine in PvP, being a tank is pointless. A tank is meant to take the attention(taunt) and damage from enemies. In pvp a tank serves no purpose, most of the time on every MMO I've ever seen they are ignored. Because there is no point is wasting time attacking them, they aren't going to do damage and can't heal. In this game you can be a healer or a dps and be tanky, but not a tank, it's pointless.

Exactly.

Waffennacht

Switching from tank to dps has been a very rewarding for me. In PvP I can actually win a battle within a few minutes, I've also noticed a better live/die ratio.

What I cannot do, at least as well, is solo dungeons. Not much of a loss as dungeons are intended to be in groups.

In PvP I did win as a tank, the battles would take 10+ minutes, if they ran I had very low chance of killing them. Templar healers were almost impossible to kill.

Survival was simply out lasting resources (and when you can across a dps with resource management... uh oh look out)

So I would say, aside from soloing, there is really no advantage to being a tank. Its less involved, the heavy armor bonuses are nowhere as good as the other bonuses. Health and healing is not nearly as good as investing in magicka or stamina.

To me a good change or two would be: each attribute in health increases it by 222 (i mean the 122 is not worth it over the pool that'll heal you for more)

And a boost to the heavy armor passives (maybe the 5 set bonus is stamina regen while blocking and a further reduced dps?)

Of course this would make a tank extremely tanky, but that's the point right? I mean as is, with my sorc tank, I gained almost no advantage to using the shield and health was secondary to my ward

Dracane

Tanks are not dead. Thanks to the high damage mitigation, tanking is stronger than ever before and due to that, you can also inflict more damage without the fear to get destroyed just because you don't block for 1 second.

There are super strong tank builds, but I can't provide hints on how to do that.
I myself fail to see the reason, for why people want to tank in pvp. It's not a needed roll really, tanks should stay in pve and stop annoying people with this turtling all the time.
Intelligent players focus DDs and healers first, tanks last.

Waseem

just people are too noob to know how to play tanks.. everyone goes for a stupid build he finds online and dont bother finding his own or style of play- which ends up with crying on forums "tanks are bad"
come spellbreaker PC EU and see how DC tanks play. maybe you learn a trick or two other than crying on forums

aco5712

Dracane wrote: »

Tanks are not dead. Thanks to the high damage mitigation, tanking is stronger than ever before and due to that, you can also inflict more damage without the fear to get destroyed just because you don't block for 1 second.

There are super strong tank builds, but I can't provide hints on how to do that.
I myself fail to see the reason, for why people want to tank in pvp. It's not a needed roll really, tanks should stay in pve and stop annoying people with this turtling all the time.
Intelligent players focus DDs and healers first, tanks last.

You actually won't believe how stupid people are and I'm trying to put this nicely. I usually jump in first and legit an entire group of 20 will start attacking me and stack on me and then my group will come in from behind and just wipe them. It's alot harder against a haxus but every other group will focus me and no one else even when the group does come in to wipe them. The puggery in this game actually makes playing a tank in pvp viable. You are right in the sense that it's not exactly needed as it is in pve but I feel like it makes wiping pug groups so much easier

Yonkit

Tanks aren't dead no, but they're utterly useless. There's no such thing as tanking a group of intelligent PvPers to contribute to your group, cause they'll just ignore you and kill everyone else then you. As a DK, sure, you can spam chains and be annoying. @Personofsecrets I'm looking at you Thornos.

But you're still ignored until you're the last person alive, and if that's contributing something to the group then by all means keep doing it...?

As far as Templar Magicka Tanks go, they're a bit more useful in PvP cause they can heal you and your allies, I wouldn't really tell you to spec for all out tanking though, I'd honestly just use a heavy armor build of your regular 'Healer' setup, invest more into block reduction and max stamina, and then go spam heals. Straight up 100% tanking is useless, and the only thing you're doing is causing yourself to be focused last, unless you're fighting idiots but that's beside the point.

Karamis_Vimardon

Yonkit wrote: »

Tanks aren't dead no, but they're utterly useless. There's no such thing as tanking a group of intelligent PvPers to contribute to your group, cause they'll just ignore you and kill everyone else then you. As a DK, sure, you can spam chains and be annoying. @Personofsecrets I'm looking at you Thornos.

But you're still ignored until you're the last person alive, and if that's contributing something to the group then by all means keep doing it...?

As far as Templar Magicka Tanks go, they're a bit more useful in PvP cause they can heal you and your allies, I wouldn't really tell you to spec for all out tanking though, I'd honestly just use a heavy armor build of your regular 'Healer' setup, invest more into block reduction and max stamina, and then go spam heals. Straight up 100% tanking is useless, and the only thing you're doing is causing yourself to be focused last, unless you're fighting idiots but that's beside the point.

@Yonkit speaks wisely, 5 heavy Willows w/ 2 light and 3 jewelry healer, Potentates S/B both bars. Tanky magicka Templar with dat BoL....

Personofsecrets

Yonkit wrote: »

Tanks aren't dead no, but they're utterly useless. There's no such thing as tanking a group of intelligent PvPers to contribute to your group, cause they'll just ignore you and kill everyone else then you. As a DK, sure, you can spam chains and be annoying. @Personofsecrets I'm looking at you Thornos.

But you're still ignored until you're the last person alive, and if that's contributing something to the group then by all means keep doing it...?

As far as Templar Magicka Tanks go, they're a bit more useful in PvP cause they can heal you and your allies, I wouldn't really tell you to spec for all out tanking though, I'd honestly just use a heavy armor build of your regular 'Healer' setup, invest more into block reduction and max stamina, and then go spam heals. Straight up 100% tanking is useless, and the only thing you're doing is causing yourself to be focused last, unless you're fighting idiots but that's beside the point.

This is why I prefer 1v1.

Yonkit

markgd88nrb18_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Tanks aren't dead no, but they're utterly useless. There's no such thing as tanking a group of intelligent PvPers to contribute to your group, cause they'll just ignore you and kill everyone else then you. As a DK, sure, you can spam chains and be annoying. @Personofsecrets I'm looking at you Thornos.

But you're still ignored until you're the last person alive, and if that's contributing something to the group then by all means keep doing it...?

As far as Templar Magicka Tanks go, they're a bit more useful in PvP cause they can heal you and your allies, I wouldn't really tell you to spec for all out tanking though, I'd honestly just use a heavy armor build of your regular 'Healer' setup, invest more into block reduction and max stamina, and then go spam heals. Straight up 100% tanking is useless, and the only thing you're doing is causing yourself to be focused last, unless you're fighting idiots but that's beside the point.

@Yonkit speaks wisely, 5 heavy Willows w/ 2 light and 3 jewelry healer, Potentates S/B both bars. Tanky magicka Templar with dat BoL....

@PenguinInACan Tanky Penguin best penguin.