There is another skill besides Steel Tornado

Recremen · October 2015

Mythk wrote: »

Why would you morph to Whirling Blades?

It looks really pretty with the green swirlygigs. Perfect for my RP build.

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

LOL, I haven't pvp'ed with a desto staff in a long time but why is destructive X not knocking down an opponent that isn't blocking? She doesn't have CC immunity. That's Awesome! Get more broken skills.

Tankqull · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Shh. Don't tell people that. :P Much easier to wipe people who do nothing but spam executes and not have any burst.

as if you need to spam anything else when there's 6/7 in the group doing that... It doesn't take any more effort since they have 10 people on barrier rotation

It's easy to heal through.

If you have 10 people spamming heals, maybe. With the same logic all damage is easy to heal though, is it not?

Yeah sorry I should of been more clear I'm talking more about group vs group.

Burst damage is harder to heal through. I prefer a combination of well timed prox det + crush with only a couple of tornados to finish it off. It's interesting to see how different groups have different ways of going about it though.

Well Prox Det is equally broken imo. They nerfed Impulse and promised a skill to counter zergs yet the skill is basically Impulse 2.0, with less DPS but more burst. GG

In the meantime I'm sitting over here hoping that one day ranged AoEs will be as powerful as PBAoEs to counter the blobbing mentality .

If the keep mages can put down 12m radius AoEs with 2k damage ticks... why does Liquid Lightning have 5m range and a quarter of that damage, while Steel Tornado has 12m range and does 4k-7k (depending on HP & crits) per spin?Like seriously what is the logic?

You can always walk out of, or Negate, a ground AoE anyways. Or you can speedbuff through it. So why are Ash Could, Volley, Lighting Splash, Wall of Elements, Spear Shards so rubbish damage and range wise, compared all the PBAoEs?

use multiple inevitable detonations. cast it on 3 different players and rather soon you are chased by the train :P

Maulkin · October 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

LOL, I haven't pvp'ed with a desto staff in a long time but why is destructive X not knocking down an opponent that isn't blocking? She doesn't have CC immunity. That's Awesome! Get more broken skills.

It's the bug they keep fixing-breaking with every patch.

Destructive Touch doesn't proc on shields. That target is constantly shielded. They fixed it for a bit, then they released an update that broke it again. Classic ZOS

Talcyndl · October 2015

Cadbury wrote: »

Indeed. There's also Wrecking Blow

I was going to say Proximity Detonation.

Talcyndl · October 2015

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

So if an aoe hits 6 people it should do 75% dmg if it hits between 7 and 24 players it should do 100% dmg and if it hits more than 24 it should do up to 300% dmg proportionately so if an aoe actually hits 60 players all of them should take massive dmg

I think it should be approached from the other direction. Don't buff single players versus large groups. That leads us back to the (very frustrating for many players) god like Vamp DKs from early in the game.

Rather, defuff players when in proximity to allies.

(1) Limit healing if you have more than x allies within x meters. You could either limit heals to 6 closest, with others taking 1/2 (or less) healing. Or (my preference), cut heals in half when there are more than x number of allies in range of the heal.

(2) Do the same for all AoE damage abilities. Basically, this would be a substitute for the unworkable option of having friendly fire. Any AoE ability deals less damage based on how many allies are in range. 6 or less = full damage. 7-12 = 1/2 damage. 12+ = 1/4 damage.

Give players an incentive to spread.

Oh and DON'T ALLOW PURGE OF SIEGE DOTs.

vamp_emily · October 2015

Stikato wrote: »

10 Stack on crown
20 IF X="DPS" THEN ST, ELSE Purge
30 GOTO 10


string hostName = Dns.GetHostName();
string ip = Dns.GetHostByName(hostName).AddressList[0].ToString();

if ( ip = [ posters ip ]){
 
 for ( i = 1 to 10000 ){
     SpamTornado();
 }
}

Recremen · October 2015

Xiphyla wrote: »

Just curious , how come steel tornado is a execute while pulsar or ele ring isnt a execute ?

Most important question of the thread, to be honest. I was under the impression that melee skills were more powerful in general because they ate away at your utility resource (for blocking, dodging, breaking free and sprinting) and because you have to be close up to use them. Hence why bow is less powerful than one of the melee weapons even though it's stamina. But for some reason all the melee-range magicka abilities are supernerfed? Some nerf, sure, fine, because you aren't eating your stamina pool, but there should not be that big of a disparity between the two player-centered full-radius AoE attacks.

Baphomet · October 2015

Saw a video on youtube recently where a stam build had 6,000+ as the default damage on his steel tornado. Ability got massive radius and an execute build into it. Use rally to buff that and what else do you need, really? Good luck competing with those numbers, magicka users ;-)

reften · October 2015

I use steel tornado a lot. Because it works. I think it's OP. Stam cost should escalate similar to roll dodge.

Recremen · October 2015

reften wrote: »

I use steel tornado a lot. Because it works. I think it's OP. Stam cost should escalate similar to roll dodge.

I have no idea why this would be a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. How would you ever manage to out-damage heals in a group environment?

twistedmonk · October 2015

doens't matter what they change...people will adapt and create a new meta.

better the devil, err steel tornado, you know.

Insurrektion · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

I think this post says it all about the current state of balance. @Zenimax When you are next doing balance updates, make sure to not OVERNERF skills and entire classes into this sort of state.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Artemisshrikes · October 2015

riverdragon72 wrote: »

Just sayin'....

no theres not

reften · October 2015

Recremen wrote: »

reften wrote: »

I use steel tornado a lot. Because it works. I think it's OP. Stam cost should escalate similar to roll dodge.

I have no idea why this would be a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. How would you ever manage to out-damage heals in a group environment?

How about this, every skill has a cooldown timer, and if you use that skill again before the time runs out, the cost increases by 5%?

Stretch your imagination more, or you just like using that phrase

ScruffyWhiskers · October 2015

That wall of elements clip is awesome. You should have used the laugh emote!

Ezareth · October 2015

If anyone here has have done any Cracked Wood cave or other grinding, there is a reason you'll find 9 out of 10 grinders using Steel Tornado and Stamina builds. The guys who aren't....just don't have a Stamina character to do it on.

12 Meter range, incredible damage and execute, yeah it one of the most powerful abilities in the game if not the most powerful.

Telel · October 2015

Anyone else remember when Steel Tornado was considered laughably bad, and PVP was naught but men in skirts jerking their sticks up and down into the air while bats swam around them?

That's why Steel Tornado is what it is now...and the whiskers do droop because of it.

Kwivur · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

Those are some nifty magic tricks... One covers you in dust and the other is the equivalent to lighting a fart? These must be how ZoS test sustainability.

CP5 · October 2015

Kwivur wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

Those are some nifty magic tricks... One covers you in dust and the other is the equivalent to lighting a fart? These must be how ZoS test sustainability.

Oh come now, don't doubt wall of the elements. If you used a flame staff for example you would have a fantastic boot warmer.

riverdragon72 · October 2015

Insurrektion wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

I think this post says it all about the current state of balance. @Zenimax When you are next doing balance updates, make sure to not OVERNERF skills and entire classes into this sort of state.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Balance of skill has been a ZoS failure since launch, it flaps in the wind which ever way it blows from one extreme to the other.

Talcyndl · October 2015

riverdragon72 wrote: »

Balance of skill has been a ZoS failure since launch, it flaps in the wind which ever way it blows from one extreme to the other.

A big reason for that is the PvP Team doesn't have control over combat and abilities. That's handled by another group - which clearly focuses almost exclusively on how skills work in PvE content.

Docmandu · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

LOL, I haven't pvp'ed with a desto staff in a long time but why is destructive X not knocking down an opponent that isn't blocking? She doesn't have CC immunity. That's Awesome! Get more broken skills.

It's the bug they keep fixing-breaking with every patch.

Destructive Touch doesn't proc on shields. That target is constantly shielded. They fixed it for a bit, then they released an update that broke it again. Classic ZOS

So much goodness in such a basic skill..

- HP buffer
- critical hit immunity
- immunity from destructive reach
- DoT immunity

Not sure if shields also negate destructive clench (frost staff). I know if fails on Boundless Storm targets.

Jules · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

Oh FFS ZOS.

Thanks for testing and uploading, Joy. Informative/hilariously broken per usual.

Sanct16 · October 2015

twistedmonk wrote: »

doens't matter what they change...people will adapt and create a new meta.

better the devil, err steel tornado, you know.

Yeah people will always use the most effective combo. But how ia that an argument to not balance overpowered skills?

MountainHound · October 2015

If ST gets nerfed, people will come out with a new strategy to spam in zergs and people will moan again. Make single damage targets higher and they will just single target hit in a ball. It is to some extent evolution and survival of the fittest and every faction is guilty of the zerg ball. You can get 100 people in a keep but 24 organized AOE spammers will wipe them on their way through. There are however ways to avoid it... run when they head for you

I thoroughly enjoy 24 vs 24 battles in a tower, win or lose. One thing that could be made better however is sorting out the Lag and Frame rates. Since the release of IC it has improved slightly but can still be better.

_Chaos · October 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

Those are some nifty magic tricks... One covers you in dust and the other is the equivalent to lighting a fart? These must be how ZoS test sustainability.

Oh come now, don't doubt wall of the elements. If you used a flame staff for example you would have a fantastic boot warmer.

QFT
laughed my ass off reading this comment

saiyan_84 · October 2015

bleh spin to win << i refuse. only when im farming in the sewers but i got sick of that 3 weeks ago.

jhharvest · October 2015

Some other games have succeeded in making balanced skills and mitigating spam. Usually the solution is cooldowns on powerful abilities but that's not the only option. Having more skill mechanics that give short buffs could be another option. Or making skills more situational like if tornado was a channel instead of instant cast. This way tornado could still do a lot of damage but at the cost of mobility, i.e. good for taking out cc'd groups of players but bade for running a blob. There must be other options too.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · October 2015

Insurrektion wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Check it out, I decided to spec into magicka and use a destruction staff. Even though I'm losing 700 spell damage for not using dual swords, I'm having a lot of fun with these great new skills!

Like Destructive Touch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M

And Wall of Elements. Look at the meltage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

I think this post says it all about the current state of balance. @Zenimax When you are next doing balance updates, make sure to not OVERNERF skills and entire classes into this sort of state.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

remember long ago when they said they would perform small changes and tweaks to balance classes, and not make big changes... ow boy how they fooled us