counter productive - PVE needs a boost in difficulty

Bhakura

Played ESO since launch give and take a few months of absence
Pve past 50 used to be harsch, one mistake on skill rotation on even simple trash mobs and you died. It was sweet, finally a combat system to test your metal. it got nerfed to what it is now, it doesnt matter what skills you slot, it doesnt matter what skills you use when, you will be victorious.
i saw this when i encountered a fellow templar doing same quest as me. First i was sure lets get it over fast but soon i realised this guy wasnt doing anything, spamming skills, sure, but not doing anything besides pushing buttons, so ended up from participating to watching ... Used all the wrong skills, and the ones that where right for the occasion he used at the wrong time (healing when full health etc) but no matter what he came out victorious, because ... PVE, you know?

I know yall been crying because PVE was to hard past 50 but really, come on guys, this is ridiculous ...
Just did Grahtwood public dungeon at level 17 with crafted (non set bonus) LEVEL 6 gear with exploration trait and pretty much roflstomped entire dungeon. Please boost PVE difficulty because this is incredibly boring. I just gonna keep my crafted blue regular armor of level 6 with exploration and see how far i can go before i actually face opposition ...

seriously

.

Qyrk

Your request, if implemented, will attract more players saying "it's too hard" and then nerf difficulty. This is actually what happened with the new vet IC dungeons; the difficulty was fantastic, but many couldn't finish it and whined and complained....then they nerf their damage.

They can't really please everyone.

Bhakura

Qyrk wrote: »

Your request, if implemented, will attract more players saying "it's too hard" and then nerf difficulty. This is actually what happened with the new vet IC dungeons; the difficulty was fantastic, but many couldn't finish it and whined and complained....then they nerf their damage.

They can't really please everyone.

Yes i know, believe me, im first in line to vote for harder content, but the content below vet level is so easy, you can play it blindfolded for gods sake.

Prof_Bawbag

You know, I'd have disagreed with you had I saw this discussion 2 or 3 months ago when i first rolled my character. I thought the game was fair because there were areas when i got punished and other areas that even as a noob I found easy, but still semi interesting. Just rolled a new toon about 10 days ago and the game just feels incredibly easy from how I remembered it being during my first run through 3 months ago. Three months i go I never had a clue what I was doing, how to use the crafting system properly and which skills were actually useful. Now, with semi decent gear and the proper skills, specced properly, I'm finding the game waaaaaaaaaay too easy.

The only parts i still find tricky on my old toon is against fire caster bosses due to me being a vampire. Especially when there's 3 bosses clutched together in one of those world boss areas. That's only down to me being a vampire and not feeding when i need to, though.

However, what i will say is I found demon Souls and Dark Souls considerably easier on my second playthroughs and that was down to it being my second playthoughs and knowing what to do. It's probably the case here too.

Bhakura

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

You know, I'd have disagreed with you had I saw this discussion 2 or 3 months ago when i first rolled my character. I thought the game was fair because there were areas when i got punished and other areas that even as a noob I found easy, but still semi interesting. Just rolled a new toon about 10 days ago and the game just feels incredibly easy from how I remembered it being during my first run through 3 months ago. Three months i go I never had a clue what I was doing, how to use the crafting system properly and which skills were actually useful. Now, with semi decent gear and the proper skills, specced properly, I'm finding the game waaaaaaaaaay too easy.

The only parts i still find tricky on my old toon is against fire caster bosses due to me being a vampire. Especially when there's 3 bosses clutched together in one of those world boss areas. That's only down to me being a vampire and not feeding when i need to, though.

However, what i will say is I found demon Souls and Dark Souls considerably easier on my second playthroughs and that was down to it being my second playthoughs and knowing what to do. It's probably the case here too.

Hmmm nice point, could be same isue as the current CP gripe as everyone has at the moment. The game itself is very nice, good combat system, lots of stuff to explore to become better. But once you become better, the game simply becomes to easy and offers no challenge anymore ...
For me its only a minor gripe though, i still love strolling around and fight stuff, combat is awesome, just not as awesome as i want it to be because i know the outcome before i start, ill kill them all with full hp remaining
A challenge in PC games is incredibly hard to find.

Moonscythe

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

You know, I'd have disagreed with you had I saw this discussion 2 or 3 months ago when i first rolled my character. I thought the game was fair because there were areas when i got punished and other areas that even as a noob I found easy, but still semi interesting. Just rolled a new toon about 10 days ago and the game just feels incredibly easy from how I remembered it being during my first run through 3 months ago. Three months i go I never had a clue what I was doing, how to use the crafting system properly and which skills were actually useful. Now, with semi decent gear and the proper skills, specced properly, I'm finding the game waaaaaaaaaay too easy.

The only parts i still find tricky on my old toon is against fire caster bosses due to me being a vampire. Especially when there's 3 bosses clutched together in one of those world boss areas. That's only down to me being a vampire and not feeding when i need to, though.

So, you don't want anyone who isn't a potential god to play? Everyone has to be a noob once and those who don't have the time or potential skill to become gods will just quit if the low level mobs and dungeons are hard. I don't learn anything if all I do is die (and I hate to die). If I can't catch my breath and figure out what is working and what isn't it is not any fun. Yeah, by the time you have rolled several characters and the previous bunch have left goodies behind in the bank, it's easier, but, you know, that's not a bad thing for many players. Personally, that's why I like single player games with difficulty sliders. Sometimes I feel like a fight and sometimes I don't.

Prof_Bawbag

I do agree with you though. It would be nice if they upped vet areas. There's no getting away from it, they're too easy. I'm not suggesting they rack the difficulty up to the point it puts most people off, I just think they went from one extreme to another.

Bhakura

Moonscythe wrote: »

Sometimes I feel like a fight and sometimes I don't.

except there is only one fight ... you always win even if you set up skills totally random, you win.

acw37162

Bhakura wrote: »

Qyrk wrote: »

Your request, if implemented, will attract more players saying "it's too hard" and then nerf difficulty. This is actually what happened with the new vet IC dungeons; the difficulty was fantastic, but many couldn't finish it and whined and complained....then they nerf their damage.

They can't really please everyone.

Yes i know, believe me, im first in line to vote for harder content, but the content below vet level is so easy, you can play it blindfolded for gods sake.

Actually no you can't.

And there is all kinds of wrong with using yourself or the forums as your control group for testing. Wait this isn't testing its an opinion piece, my mistake, carry on....

SirAndy

Bhakura wrote: »

PVE needs a boost in difficulty

Here's my post on the subject from a few months ago:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/170555/you-know-eso-is-too-easy-when/p1

LordSemaj

This an Elder Scrolls game simulator. What made you think there would be challenge? I mean, what Elder Scrolls game was it that you thought was seeping in difficulty and couldn't be wrecked by one-button specs? Heck, a guy beat most of Skyrim using nothing but Illusion magic.

It's nice that there used to be difficulty. But difficulty has never been part of the ES formula.

Prof_Bawbag

Moonscythe wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

You know, I'd have disagreed with you had I saw this discussion 2 or 3 months ago when i first rolled my character. I thought the game was fair because there were areas when i got punished and other areas that even as a noob I found easy, but still semi interesting. Just rolled a new toon about 10 days ago and the game just feels incredibly easy from how I remembered it being during my first run through 3 months ago. Three months i go I never had a clue what I was doing, how to use the crafting system properly and which skills were actually useful. Now, with semi decent gear and the proper skills, specced properly, I'm finding the game waaaaaaaaaay too easy.

The only parts i still find tricky on my old toon is against fire caster bosses due to me being a vampire. Especially when there's 3 bosses clutched together in one of those world boss areas. That's only down to me being a vampire and not feeding when i need to, though.

So, you don't want anyone who isn't a potential god to play? Everyone has to be a noob once and those who don't have the time or potential skill to become gods will just quit if the low level mobs and dungeons are hard. I don't learn anything if all I do is die (and I hate to die). If I can't catch my breath and figure out what is working and what isn't it is not any fun. Yeah, by the time you have rolled several characters and the previous bunch have left goodies behind in the bank, it's easier, but, you know, that's not a bad thing for many players. Personally, that's why I like single player games with difficulty sliders. Sometimes I feel like a fight and sometimes I don't.

Jeez, way to take what i said and take it to the extreme. Nowhere did i suggest the game's difficulty needs racked up full throttle. Stop being a Drama Queen and accept people will have differing opinions. You're banging on like i have the power to sway ZoS, I don't. I'm merely giving my opinion.

zornyan

I find the difficulty too unbalanced between vet and non vet to be honest.

Non vet is stupidly easy, as you say any character can complete it with ease without putting any thought into the build.

Then vet stuff hits, people are vastly under geared and under prepared, world bosses in cadwells zones are harder, mobs actually do a degree of damage to you and actually use spells and skills against you.

Then craglorn, you go up to a single mob and 10 more come charging at you, hell those orc rangers cast a snipe attack for 15k odd damage that hurts anyone pretty hard. You need skill to survive. I've just managed to build my templar at vr15 to the point he can solo nearly all the group delves and bosses without dying. Even basic areas like the nirn mines require you to follow a few steps to prevent endless waves of enemies from destroying you .

Then comes IC , see a banner dude? Run like hell as 40k fire attacks mean your gonna have a bad time.

redspecter23

Cadwell's Platinum

Accessible for all characters level V1 or higher and is in addition to Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

All 15 faction zones and starter islands scaled to V20 (current cap is still V16). Public dungeons in those zones cranked up to actually require full groups for easier completion. Quests and delves are soloable but with great difficulty. World bosses and dolmens take a full group of 24 for a shot at completing but also award nice shinies upon defeat.

We get to keep the content we already have with the current difficulty, but also add new content at a higher difficulty for those looking for a challenge. No reason we can't have both and make everyone happy.

Bhakura

LordSemaj wrote: »

This an Elder Scrolls game simulator. What made you think there would be challenge? I mean, what Elder Scrolls game was it that you thought was seeping in difficulty and couldn't be wrecked by one-button specs? Heck, a guy beat most of Skyrim using nothing but Illusion magic.

It's nice that there used to be difficulty. But difficulty has never been part of the ES formula.

The most fun challenge in any scenario is playing with lives, even if its only virtual. You dont exactly die, but your character might if you do something wrong. thtas what makes games like this, on paper, fun.
But if every single fight you already know you gonna win, blindfolded, hands tied behind back, ... wheres the fun?
New toon only level 20 in class skills, but still using first skills of every class skills to level them simultaneously and i havent died yet because skills where inadequate ... i did die on bosses because of stupidity.
So being stupid makes a challenge?

SaltyWorley

I'm VR3, almost VR4, and the difficulty definitely isn't there on anything close to my level. When I opened up the second area, all I did was head straight for the delves and finish all of them. I've soloed all of them at VR1-VR3 (the delves are VR1-VR5) and there is no challenge at all other than the one boss character in the delve (and usually those aren't terribly challenging). I put on Inner Light, throw down a few Blazing Spears, and spam Puncturing Sweep until everything's dead. For the bosses, I switch to a Structured Entropy/Dark Flare/Radiant Oppression combo.

The only solution is to take on things well above your level. I went to Craglorn and while I was able to defeat a few mobs of VR11-VR13 wasps and similar, everything else wiped me, so I know there's content I can get to that I cannot solo. If you fight enemies that are somewhere in the middle (i.e. 3-6 levels above you for VR ranks), you can make it challenging. World bosses as well.

It's not great. IMHO things at your level should be challenging and things a few level higher should be very challenging. As-is, things at your level are basically cake and things a few levels higher are challenging.

SirAndy

redspecter23 wrote: »

World bosses and dolmens take a full group of 24 for a shot at completing but also award nice shinies upon defeat. No reason we can't have both and make everyone happy.

That wouldn't make everyone happy though.

Needing 24 people to finish a dolmen? You seriously think that's a good idea?


Making the game harder by having to find 23 other people to play with is not the same as making the content more challenging. All it does is pushing people to rage quit the game for good.

LordSemaj

Bhakura wrote: »

But if every single fight you already know you gonna win, blindfolded, hands tied behind back, ... wheres the fun?

Hmm, don't really know. But with over 20 million copies sold, somehow people found Skyrim fun despite being exactly that.

MMOs being multiplayer draw out fans of Leaderboards and proving your superiority through more challenging content that most people wouldn't be able to overcome, but you obviously can because you're awesome. But such petitioners often forget the purpose behind games and focus only on the competition. Plenty of games exists that offer no challenge whatsoever and people enjoy them anyway for the story, the content, the progression, and with MMOs the social experience.

If even the predecessors from this series weren't all about combat that thrusts a claw through your chest to reach up and rip your face off through your esophagus, why does it seem strange for that not to be the philosophy here?

Tholian1

SaltyWorley wrote: »

I'm VR3, almost VR4, and the difficulty definitely isn't there on anything close to my level. When I opened up the second area, all I did was head straight for the delves and finish all of them. I've soloed all of them at VR1-VR3 (the delves are VR1-VR5) and there is no challenge at all other than the one boss character in the delve (and usually those aren't terribly challenging). I put on Inner Light, throw down a few Blazing Spears, and spam Puncturing Sweep until everything's dead. For the bosses, I switch to a Structured Entropy/Dark Flare/Radiant Oppression combo.

The only solution is to take on things well above your level. I went to Craglorn and while I was able to defeat a few mobs of VR11-VR13 wasps and similar, everything else wiped me, so I know there's content I can get to that I cannot solo. If you fight enemies that are somewhere in the middle (i.e. 3-6 levels above you for VR ranks), you can make it challenging. World bosses as well.

It's not great. IMHO things at your level should be challenging and things a few level higher should be very challenging. As-is, things at your level are basically cake and things a few levels higher are challenging.

Maybe your class needs more nerfs for PvE content if you are finding it too easy.

remilafo

pve is hard enough, chill out and get a life...

for the average player it's to hard, have you tried vet WGT or ICP... madness.

Tholian1

LordSemaj wrote: »

This an Elder Scrolls game simulator. What made you think there would be challenge? I mean, what Elder Scrolls game was it that you thought was seeping in difficulty and couldn't be wrecked by one-button specs? Heck, a guy beat most of Skyrim using nothing but Illusion magic.

It's nice that there used to be difficulty. But difficulty has never been part of the ES formula.

Even Skyrim set to legendary difficulty?

DenMoria

And this is exactly why I stopped playing ESO. It is hard enough from 1-50 and far too hard for me after 50.

I play to enjoy and constant dying and failure is not enjoyable to me.

Before you say "Git Gud", that's just my opinion.

More power to all of you that are SO good at all of these things. I am an old man that will always play as easy as possible.

LordSemaj

Tholian1 wrote: »

SaltyWorley wrote: »

I'm VR3, almost VR4, and the difficulty definitely isn't there on anything close to my level. When I opened up the second area, all I did was head straight for the delves and finish all of them. I've soloed all of them at VR1-VR3 (the delves are VR1-VR5) and there is no challenge at all other than the one boss character in the delve (and usually those aren't terribly challenging). I put on Inner Light, throw down a few Blazing Spears, and spam Puncturing Sweep until everything's dead. For the bosses, I switch to a Structured Entropy/Dark Flare/Radiant Oppression combo.

The only solution is to take on things well above your level. I went to Craglorn and while I was able to defeat a few mobs of VR11-VR13 wasps and similar, everything else wiped me, so I know there's content I can get to that I cannot solo. If you fight enemies that are somewhere in the middle (i.e. 3-6 levels above you for VR ranks), you can make it challenging. World bosses as well.

It's not great. IMHO things at your level should be challenging and things a few level higher should be very challenging. As-is, things at your level are basically cake and things a few levels higher are challenging.

Maybe your class needs more nerfs for PvE content if you are finding it too easy.

I'm sure he can nerf himself if he wanted to.

If any of you find the game boring because it's easy, put together a skill build you consider absolutely terrible. Draw your mind away from the min-max perfectionism and play the game on a "harder difficulty". If it truly is as easy as is claimed, you should still be able to complete all challenges with a subpar arrangement of powers.

Or if you can't wrap your head around playing to suck, challenge yourself in other ways. Make solo runs on dungeons. Play a templar and be both the group tank AND healer with three dps along for the ride. Or hop into IC without a zerg and witness the wrath of that level v16 unique dark elf boss who spams cloak and kills you in four seconds. Yes yes, I know it's actually a player... imagination is what we used before video games.

Bhakura

LordSemaj wrote: »

Bhakura wrote: »

But if every single fight you already know you gonna win, blindfolded, hands tied behind back, ... wheres the fun?

Hmm, don't really know. But with over 20 million copies sold, somehow people found Skyrim fun despite being exactly that.

MMOs being multiplayer draw out fans of Leaderboards and proving your superiority through more challenging content that most people wouldn't be able to overcome, but you obviously can because you're awesome. But such petitioners often forget the purpose behind games and focus only on the competition. Plenty of games exists that offer no challenge whatsoever and people enjoy them anyway for the story, the content, the progression, and with MMOs the social experience.

If even the predecessors from this series weren't all about combat that thrusts a claw through your chest to reach up and rip your face off through your esophagus, why does it seem strange for that not to be the philosophy here?

You are going way overboard of the topic here.
Dont give a crap what predecessors did or what should and must be done. All i want is to fight a bunch in PVE and actually feel what ever small rewards it provided was earned.
No not asking for better reward system, couldnt care less. One village after another you have to save, and you just roflstomp through them, hey lets get it over with so we can move on the next zone, where its exactly the same, roflstomp through them so we can get to the next zone .... etc etc etc
And not a single moment during roflstomping said content you had the idea of "WOAAAH im way over my head here, i better need to revise what im doing before i continue" ... because PVE

SirAndy

LordSemaj wrote: »

imagination is what we used before video games.

Riiiight, because burning plastic toy soldiers in your sandbox took so much more "imagination" ...

k2blader

Hey OP, are you using any CPs? CPs make a big difference in difficulty.

[edit]
Also agree with folks commenting that pre-vet is pretty easy compared to vet content. So if folks are saying it's too easy and haven't reached vet yet, lulz.

SirAndy

k2blader wrote: »

So if folks are saying it's too easy and haven't reached vet yet, lulz.

You do realize that some of us have more than one character, right?


The link i posted of my level 28 toon being able to complete a level 48 dungeon, that's my 4th main character. And no, she didn't have any CPs allocated at that point.

Tholian1

LordSemaj wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

SaltyWorley wrote: »

I'm VR3, almost VR4, and the difficulty definitely isn't there on anything close to my level. When I opened up the second area, all I did was head straight for the delves and finish all of them. I've soloed all of them at VR1-VR3 (the delves are VR1-VR5) and there is no challenge at all other than the one boss character in the delve (and usually those aren't terribly challenging). I put on Inner Light, throw down a few Blazing Spears, and spam Puncturing Sweep until everything's dead. For the bosses, I switch to a Structured Entropy/Dark Flare/Radiant Oppression combo.

The only solution is to take on things well above your level. I went to Craglorn and while I was able to defeat a few mobs of VR11-VR13 wasps and similar, everything else wiped me, so I know there's content I can get to that I cannot solo. If you fight enemies that are somewhere in the middle (i.e. 3-6 levels above you for VR ranks), you can make it challenging. World bosses as well.

It's not great. IMHO things at your level should be challenging and things a few level higher should be very challenging. As-is, things at your level are basically cake and things a few levels higher are challenging.

Maybe your class needs more nerfs for PvE content if you are finding it too easy.

I'm sure he can nerf himself if he wanted to.

If any of you find the game boring because it's easy, put together a skill build you consider absolutely terrible. Draw your mind away from the min-max perfectionism and play the game on a "harder difficulty". If it truly is as easy as is claimed, you should still be able to complete all challenges with a subpar arrangement of powers.

Or if you can't wrap your head around playing to suck, challenge yourself in other ways. Make solo runs on dungeons. Play a templar and be both the group tank AND healer with three dps along for the ride. Or hop into IC without a zerg and witness the wrath of that level v16 unique dark elf boss who spams cloak and kills you in four seconds. Yes yes, I know it's actually a player... imagination is what we used before video games.

Yeah I know, but they won't do that. They expect the game to be extremely difficult with all the best gear and skill combinations, while leaving others with lesser gear and not using the latest popular build to suffer with an impossible game. I wasn't being serious about more nerfs, but feel if they must cry for more difficulty, they and they alone should suffer with it.

Steel_Brightblade

I agree it needs to be harder, I'm not some to ender here, just a console player with just 140cp and normal mobs are insanely easy. Got an alt that was meant to go to rivenspire, I was tired, walked into bangkorai by mistake, didn't realise until I got to a boss and a bunch of mobs and suddenly found I was having to focus to survive, it wasn't until after I killed them I realised they were 12 levels higher than me. Thing was I was left thinking, this is the difficulty it should be at. Now I think current silver and veteran dungeons are at a good level for players of my cp level, the ic dungeons also good, very hard but that's to be expected.