Azura's [NA PC] The problem with EP.

LazyLewis

So from what I see the current issue with the most active campaign in the game is that EP have to many guilds in one campaign. This not a complaint or NERF EVERYONE post. Just a simple statement of fact. AD have 0 Presence and the amount of active good EP guilds present in Azuras out weighs DC 2 to 1. We have pugs, small groups, gankers etc... EP has multiple organised active guilds. The other EP guilds in the game who aren't as good or skilled at the game are on other campaigns.

The point of this post from my side is to say that you should want to be competitive, if you like it in easy mode where there is 60 + EP organised besieging one keep at a time, all working together to fight 1 half decent guild, one guild that runs 10-12 mans that are very good and loads of pugs then go ahead and enjoy that. Haxus is the best guild EP side and I would like to request for all the other guilds in Azuras to stop following them around. Do your own thing. Be competitive.

Just go to another campaign. Spread out. Have fun. You don't need 5 organised guilds fighting two guilds, and pugs. AD do not play anymore on this campaign because of this reason.

SleepyTroll

Why does DC and Ad not make hardcore pvp guilds? I think you guys should stop complaining about EP and complain about your own factions. Although let me be clear I am not naive to the fact that EP has more. Wasn't there like a giant exodus from AD last year because they had such a *** pvp community?

LazyLewis

Its hilarious that people joined EP. 'Theres not enough AD guilds so lets leave and make more EP one's and it will be better'. Makes sense.

Sleepy. I cannot control what AD do. All I can do is is say this to EP. MOVE. GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. I can't generate AD guilds out off my orifices, but I can however share my opinion on why EP constantly dominate Azuras. Because all the good guilds stay on one camapign where as all the AD guilds spread out to different campaigns to avoid zerging and find good competitive fights.

Another reason why AD have such issues is because they have guilds that run 1-2 full raids. This is major issue. You're never gonna learn and get better at the game if you're running with 24 people. Or 30, or 40. You know you are! These 40 man Zergs could be 3 Amazing 13 man groups but they refuse to better themselves.

The way I see PvP is that if you're in a group and you die and doesn't matter your failing at the game. If you're in 24 man group and you're 1 of 5 steel tornado's but you die but it;s fine cause 'there's 4 more what are you actually contributing to this game, to your group. You're insignificant. I like to matter in the groups I run with. When i'm in a group I make a difference. If you don't make a significant difference you fail.

tonemd

So, let me get this straight, when EP fields multi-raids moving together as a zerg they roll everyone and take over the map.
WHen DC does the same thing they roll everyone and take over the map (or at least crown emp, gets scrolls, etc).

But the call is always for AD and DC to run in small groups and stay away from the zerg, for the sake of learning how to pvp properly.

"WHen I see a zerg at the same keep as my small 8 man, we leave".

So everyone runs separate and eventually gets rolled by the zergs.

DOES THIS MAKE ANY F***** SENSE!

LazyLewis

EP have completely dominated Azuras for along time. The issue is not any other faction. Those guilds need to spread out and find some where else to fight.

Rylana

Im gonna be honest with you LazyLewis, and while I agree with the general sentiment that EP is getting too big on Azuras...

Have you ever seen what AD does? I mean, youre not actually blind are you? PROTIP - I do know about the existence of the alliance guild that coordinates all the guild leads. Whether or not its still a thing I dont know nor care, but AD has always stuffed their entire population into a campaign, sometimes 5 organized raids deep if not more, to crush all competition.

Haderus, Thornblade, Azuras early, back on Auriels, Hopesfire... the list goes on and on.

its the whole reason I rolled EP over a year ago, because AD was just too damned big. Maybe too many came, but to be indignant about what EP does (and mind EP also had a huge influx of brandonzerg from DC in the last few months) when you yourself relied on a 60 man zerg to crown Chunky Nurse back on Thorn (which I remember because that was the cycle I was running high on the boards with you for most of it, competing), is pretty silly.

So I ask, why dont you bring your zerg and fight the EP zerg?

subbssb14_ESO

LazyLewis wrote: »

Its hilarious that people joined EP. 'Theres not enough AD guilds so lets leave and make more EP one's and it will be better'. Makes sense.

Sleepy. I cannot control what AD do. All I can do is is say this to EP. MOVE. GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. I can't generate AD guilds out off my orifices, but I can however share my opinion on why EP constantly dominate Azuras. Because all the good guilds stay on one camapign where as all the AD guilds spread out to different campaigns to avoid zerging and find good competitive fights.

Another reason why AD have such issues is because they have guilds that run 1-2 full raids. This is major issue. You're never gonna learn and get better at the game if you're running with 24 people. Or 30, or 40. You know you are! These 40 man Zergs could be 3 Amazing 13 man groups but they refuse to better themselves.

The way I see PvP is that if you're in a group and you die and doesn't matter your failing at the game. If you're in 24 man group and you're 1 of 5 steel tornado's but you die but it;s fine cause 'there's 4 more what are you actually contributing to this game, to your group. You're insignificant. I like to matter in the groups I run with. When i'm in a group I make a difference. If you don't make a significant difference you fail.

Firstly, I'd like to point out that from a practical, realistic point of view, asking an individual or a whole faction be it in this game or any other or even in real life war, to change strategy to one that is less effective at winning is a waste of time. "Everyone should stop using [snipe, valkyn skoria, meteor, impulse, crystal frags, jesus beam, etc]" or "Stop being in groups that are larger than our groups" or many other statements like that. If you want them to change, show why it's an advantage to do so, or in their best interest. If you can't then I can only conclude you are either a sore loser, or naively think that the enemy should fight "honorably" (in other words, fairly). These campaigns aren't a tournament, they are simulating a fantasy war, and war is not fair. It is not EP or any other enemy's responsibility to go easy on you so that you have more fun, it is the game designer's job. It is the game dev's job to create an environment such that all sides naturally end up even or if there is temporary imbalance, to create mechanics to cause it to rebalance in time, and this is not easily achieved.

Secondly, you say basically that if you are in a large group you A. Don't learn, and B. Fail at the game.

You need to recognize that not everyone finds the same things fun as you, and that aside from being efficient, large numbers of people join large groups because large numbers of people ENJOY being in large groups, and who are you to say that their way of finding fun in pvp is wrong and yours is right? Solo, small group, and large group pvp are all valid ways to play and have fun. You don't have to enjoy all of them yourself, but you do need to recognize they exist and are not minority exceptions.

As to if people learn in a large group, the answer is obvious to me and I suspect obvious to you as well, but you don't mention it because it doesn't help your argument. OF COURSE people learn things from large groups. Do they learn the same things in a large group as you might in a small group or solo... definitely not. Each style of pvp have common skills, and each have skills unique to that style. So in fact there are some things you will only learn in a large group, IF the large group is organized enough. Likewise you are correct that there are many things they will not learn in a large group. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Do they learn as much in their large group as they would solo or in a small group, you could debate it for a long time but in the end it depends on each individual and what environment they learn best in, what type of pvp they are best at, personal preference, etc.

Tl;Dr If they are having fun in a large group, and if the tactical advantages of the large group outweigh the advantages of moving to a small group/solo style, telling them to do something else is a waste of time.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

OP you should ask the 3 bars of AD on Haderus in the wee hours of the morning to help out on AS in that case.

EP hasn't been 'dominating' AS for a 'long time'. We barely won this cycle, and I say barely because we were actually in last place with AD and DC way ahead of us when IC launched. Then middle of the cycle AD and DC just kind of stopped trying. EP had been struggling for the previous 4-5 cycles under the bootheel of both enemy factions, barely able to hold onto home keeps much less scrolls and rarely ever crowning emps. Walks was the last emp of the cycle and held emp for a good stretch ov almost 2 weeks, and it wasn't for lack of trying on AD and DC's part. Both of them had poplocks DISPLAYED on the server pop, but we never saw their entire poplock on the field. That gives me the impression that there's way more AD and DC interested in pursuing Sewers grinding or Memorial District 'pvp' than there are controlling overworld objectives.

It's not that EP haven't been wanting to own the map either. Even Walks stated repeatedly that EP owning the map would be a bad thing and even abdicated after the camp reset to clear the way for newer players, but there's a raid or two worth of die-hard EP who want to push the map and AD and DC just aren't bringing a raid or two to push back.

This kind of ties in with another problem about ZOS dumping in new servers to 'ease the load' then once the post patch hype dwindles so do server pops. Players aren't going to want to fight big epic battles for objectives. Everyone will settle into a camp of their choosing and 'peacefully' grind away at a zone empty of anyone else but their own faction.

I really wish there were a way to make a PVP 'megaserver' that lobs people together in phases and ranks on individual performance in battles rather than a single overall score/middle finger at the end of the cycle, but that's a pickle-jar of worms that doesn't need to be opened any time soon.

DC had alot of good guilds that kept the pressure on EP middle of last AS cycle. Shortbus, VE, Chuck Norris, but they kind of just....evaporated after IC launched. I think some of them broke up or moved to another server.

Also its very poorly telling when DC brings 3 FULL RAIDs ( I am not exaggerating this) to deal with a group of 20 EP farming DC nooblets in that little ayleid door chamber just a block away from your sewer spawn point. 80 DC. That's 80 DC that are NOT defending home keeps, are NOT pushing scrolls, are NOT pushing emp. Most of what EP does is with 60-80 people. If AD and DC cannot field that much, then you really don't have a leg to stand on.

Biggest uprising I saw from AD after camp reset was a AD raid that ambushed (or at least tried to) EP as they were going after NiMokh. They had a clever eye of the needle strategy of arming bombs and running through the hallways of the gate, but they just couldn't stand against EP's vast numbers. They were one raid. Ideally they should have had 2 or 3 full raids.

CN_Daniel

We liberated Azura once and we will do it again. Hell, we got them to 1 emp keep last night with half their numbers, just give us time.

CN_Daniel

I challenge Hackathon to play just ONE night on another server to let the rest of red realize how dependent they truly are on them.

MrGrimey

That's why we need structured small scale pvp

Stikato

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

I really wish there were a way to make a PVP 'megaserver' that lobs people together in phases and ranks on individual performance in battles rather than a single overall score/middle finger at the end of the cycle, but that's a pickle-jar of worms that doesn't need to be opened any time soon.

Sorry, just gonna snip that and say, yeah that would be problematic, but it sure is an interesting idea.

Or would there be ways to encourage a similar type of division through rewards.

For example: If all of the campaigns were the same length, when they were done, it could select the 100-200 highest performing EP, AD, and DC, and put them in some special campaign for a week with crazy rewards to the winner / emperor. The Legends campaign.

I mean, we have these dynamic (read: changing, not awesome) campaigns, which have downsides of: people moving to find advantages, lack of realm pride, etc. But surely there must be advantages to having the ability to move around. Yet the campaigns just sit there as if they are Lancelot, Percival, etc from DAOC. There is no branching, no tiers, no tools provided by the game itself to take advantage of the mobility of the players.

Of course, then people would whine that they couldn't "access content" (barf).

Ok carry on, I just rarely read interesting ideas on the forums anymore so kudos for that one.

Stikato

dbl post

MountainHound

The players can create a recognized campaign where the best play, and that use to be Azura and seems to still be the case. Once all but one campaign is gated access (which will be an EP/AD farm) we can start some actual PVPing. O How I have missed standing on Mojican's caltrops being hit for 12k a second until last night where it happened again. O how I have missed missfits farming nikel gate whilst their pugs siege aleswell.

I'm assuming order will hopefully be restored soon and all 3 factions will be pop locked onto Azura lagging it out.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

The other factions really don't have a leg to stand on at this point. I've actively been abstaining from hardcore pvp activities since the new cycle started, doing exclusively IC dailies or scouts, and I'm fairly certain if that group of 5-6 AD NB's camping Arboretum and ganking hapless daily grinders for scraps of TV stones were, oh I dunno, camping Alessia Bridge, that'd be alot more beneficial to the faction. But who am I to say. I'm die-hard pact, but even I have to berate people in chat that if 30+ EP keep swarming to 'defend' Rayles or Warden, then NO ONE is going to want to push the map. It's a difficult message to drum into people's heads.

The problem is only compounded by the player apathy displayed by AD and DC on Azura's. All three factions have had prominent pvpers quit but it's more painfully obvious in DC, less so than AD but most of them seem to want to defend Haderus to their dying breath with 3 bars against 1-2 EP/DC. Old habits never change I suppose.

CN_Daniel

My team is trying to help. The poor puggies can't even find groups most days. I'm asking our core people to take turns leading pickup groups. And I greatly appreciate their willingness to sometimes do things that are "less" fun for the benefit of DC as a whole.

GRxKnight

Really starting to wonder when the DC "punishment" is going to come from Rage ambushing the DC scroll the other night as it was heading over the Alessia bridge...it clearly wasn't last night either as they tried the same tactic not once, not twice, but three times the ran it in our direction, only to wipe to us and give us hordes of AP...

Oh and that Alessia defense after we flipped roe was awesome...prefect call by ash to only repair outer in order to get to Alessia in time to wipe Daniel on the flag...fun fights all around though last night...

vamp_emily

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Why does DC and Ad not make hardcore pvp guilds? I think you guys should stop complaining about EP and complain about your own factions. Although let me be clear I am not naive to the fact that EP has more. Wasn't there like a giant exodus from AD last year because they had such a *** pvp community?

Hi,

Did you not read what the poster wrote? "This not a complaint or NERF EVERYONE post. Just a simple statement of fact. ".

We are not here to complain, we are simply stating a problem and trying to find a solution.

CN_Daniel

GRxKnight wrote: »

Really starting to wonder when the DC "punishment" is going to come from Rage ambushing the DC scroll the other night as it was heading over the Alessia bridge...it clearly wasn't last night either as they tried the same tactic not once, not twice, but three times the ran it in our direction, only to wipe to us and give us hordes of AP...

Oh and that Alessia defense after we flipped roe was awesome...prefect call by ash to only repair outer in order to get to Alessia in time to wipe Daniel on the flag...fun fights all around though last night...

ZERG BAAAAAAAH ZERG BAAAAAAAAAA

If I could just convince the rest of DC that emp > scrolls :-(

vamp_emily

My character was a born killer, am I the only one that does not have a heart when I talk about my enemy?

I vote to wipe EP off the map, kill every single one of them. They have ruled Cyrodiil for way to long and we DC need to take control of the entire map.

Some will say, "Well if you do that they won't play anymore". My response is, " I don't freaking care because one day I would love to sit on the North wall at Chal and eat my lunch without being sieged."

But really do you think they would quit? All those so called EP skilled players, or guilds. I don't think they would.

DC needs to get their **** together. We need better training, more players, active guilds ( that promote new players ), and we need better leadership.

Remember guys this is War! Today it is EP zerges, and tomorrow it might bet AD zerges. I say kill them all, and let them feel the pain. If they quit, that is ok with me. I will just trot around on my horse in Cydriil and pick flowers.

I know someone will say DC zerges too, but the thing is DC zerges are around 24 players. EP zerges get huge like 40+ players at a time. They are good players and that makes it even more of a threat.

GRxKnight

NPK Daniel wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Really starting to wonder when the DC "punishment" is going to come from Rage ambushing the DC scroll the other night as it was heading over the Alessia bridge...it clearly wasn't last night either as they tried the same tactic not once, not twice, but three times the ran it in our direction, only to wipe to us and give us hordes of AP...

Oh and that Alessia defense after we flipped roe was awesome...prefect call by ash to only repair outer in order to get to Alessia in time to wipe Daniel on the flag...fun fights all around though last night...

ZERG BAAAAAAAH ZERG BAAAAAAAAAA

If I could just convince the rest of DC that emp > scrolls :-(

There were 24 of us in group plus maybe at most 15 other ad there...my kill country ticked up 50+ after that fight...sure that's a zerg but not a big one compared to what you run or what ep runs (not taking a shot at you personally....you've been a pretty decent herder of pugs ever since dc lost Brandon)...

Though thinking about what was probably the best highlight of the night for me was when we swooped in and took chalman from behind you guys, engaging in an awesome, no lag three way fight against dc and EP...sure you got your scroll back but the amount of DC and EP that were dead made it worth it...i even got my alliance rank up (finally) after that

CN_Daniel

GRxKnight wrote: »

NPK Daniel wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Really starting to wonder when the DC "punishment" is going to come from Rage ambushing the DC scroll the other night as it was heading over the Alessia bridge...it clearly wasn't last night either as they tried the same tactic not once, not twice, but three times the ran it in our direction, only to wipe to us and give us hordes of AP...

Oh and that Alessia defense after we flipped roe was awesome...prefect call by ash to only repair outer in order to get to Alessia in time to wipe Daniel on the flag...fun fights all around though last night...

ZERG BAAAAAAAH ZERG BAAAAAAAAAA

If I could just convince the rest of DC that emp > scrolls :-(

There were 24 of us in group plus maybe at most 15 other ad there...my kill country ticked up 50+ after that fight...sure that's a zerg but not a big one compared to what you run or what ep runs (not taking a shot at you personally....you've been a pretty decent herder of pugs ever since dc lost Brandon)...

Though thinking about what was probably the best highlight of the night for me was when we swooped in and took chalman from behind you guys, engaging in an awesome, no lag three way fight against dc and EP...sure you got your scroll back but the amount of DC and EP that were dead made it worth it...i even got my alliance rank up (finally) after that

YOU WANT 10 FPS. I WILL GIVE YOU 10 FPS. LOL

Naw we've been running small trying to get the team right. It was my team that tried to bomb you guys at the chal mine. Alllllllll 14 of us :P

The zerger got zerged.

I will attempt to rally the entire DC faction now and then, that's what you're seeing when it's like 100 of us.

Herbatio

LazyLewis wrote: »

EP have completely dominated Azuras for along time. The issue is not any other faction. Those guilds need to spread out and find some where else to fight.

the 2 and a half campaigns before IC came out were won by DC if anyone doesnt remembe. They were close though but were won by the glorious blue, then well ummm IC came and ruined ***.

Dkill

Herbatio wrote: »

LazyLewis wrote: »

EP have completely dominated Azuras for along time. The issue is not any other faction. Those guilds need to spread out and find some where else to fight.

the 2 and a half campaigns before IC came out were won by DC if anyone doesnt remembe. They were close though but were won by the glorious blue, then well ummm IC came and ruined ***.






The only reason EP and AD are on top this time is because the low population bonus. SO we are now back in Azura with a roundhouse kick and the Texa's ranger action.......