[Sorc] Power Surge vs. Entropy

Noerknhar

Having Power Surge on my bar increases my spell damage for about ~60.
Entropy, on the other hand, triggers the 20% damage increase for one spell all 20 seconds.

Limited to "damage wise":
What's your favourite? And why? I am really unsure whether I like one more than the other...

Stannum

Surge lasts longer, you need to renew Entropy twice on one surge cast.
You need target for Entropy.
I like Surge more

willymchilybily

Not a Sorc but dont forget mages guild passive giving next attack a 20% damage bonus (empowered) if cast within 5 seconds after using a MG ability (non toggle). Though personally Crit surge looks too good to pass up.

then its a toss up of passives giving either 2% more regen per MG ability slotted, or 2% Spell Dam. for sorcerer ability slotted. depends what you lack/want more of.

jarrandub17_ESO

Crit surge + Thief Mundus stone =

Noerknhar

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Surge lasts longer, you need to renew Entropy twice on one surge cast.

This, I think, is not true. Surge lasts about 4 seconds longer, not double as long.

By the way, I forgot to mention:
Structured Entropy increases my maximum health by 5% when slotted. This is roughly 1k.


Edit: Just to make this clear, I am talking about a MAGICKA built sorcerer.

Stannum

Noerknhar wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Surge lasts longer, you need to renew Entropy twice on one surge cast.

This, I think, is not true. Surge lasts about 4 seconds longer, not double as long.

hmm may be they changed something last patch
I remember that Entropy lasted about 14,? sec and Surge 26 or 30s. Need to look at tooltips.

Wisler89

Entropy last about 15 seconds, Surge lasts 33 seconds. That are two Entropy casts per one Surge cast.

Noerknhar

Wisler89 wrote: »

Entropy last about 15 seconds, Surge lasts 33 seconds. That are two Entropy casts per one Surge cast.

Okay, now I am unsure myself. I will check that ingame as soon as I get home

If that was the case, then Surge probably would be superior (damage wise), wouldn't it?

Flaminir

As others have said.... you need to cast Entropy twice as much as surge. Surge is now 33 seconds. Think Entropy is still approx 14.

I've previously been a big entropy fan, but have now switched over to Surge again for a few reasons:

• I don't have to worry about keeping an eye on it running out as often... so I can concentrate on the rest of my rotation
• I can get off another damaging spell in the time it takes to cast entropy... this more than makes up for losing the 20% empower buff on a single spell which I'd get from entropy
• I use Surge on my back / execute bar.... along with my Overload bar. This is more spell damage on my hardest hitting stuff (Execute & Overload)
• With the new magicka DPS meta developing for divines gear in conjunction with the Thief mundus stone (Extra 18% crit anyone!?) the heal from Surge is now getting very good again. Especially as it no longer procs on DoT's. It's making my build far far more sustainable.
• The higher crit from the mundus setup will also synergise perfectly with the Scathing Mage set when I finally get it all to drop... higher crit... more spell damage... increased healing (Using Surge).... it's a perfect circle!!!

jarrandub17_ESO

^ Bingo!

Noerknhar

Hmm. I think I really have to think about whether I keep on using entropy or I switch to surge.

BTW: Entropy lasts 20sec, not 14. It's only the DoT that lasts 14 (checked that yesterday). Therefore, it has 2/3 of the uptime of surge.

I think I will go for surge on my main bar, and entropy on my 2nd bar, so that I can entropy prior to meteor ultimate.

DannyLV702

just switched to Surge today. You can activate it from stealth without revealing, and 33 seconds makes me more comfortable not having to swap bars as often. And the animation pretty much shows you when it's time to reactivate.

Noerknhar

DannyLV702 wrote: »

just switched to Surge today. You can activate it from stealth without revealing, and 33 seconds makes me more comfortable not having to swap bars as often. And the animation pretty much shows you when it's time to reactivate.

I have to swap bars every 20 seconds anyways as I have to apply elemental drain myself.

But...

DannyLV702 wrote: »

And the animation pretty much shows you when it's time to reactivate.

THIS!!!!!!!

Brrrofski

This is an interesting debate.

Just got my sorc to vet 14 yesterday and have run entropy since I could get it.

Surge does add more spell damage as it's another sorc ability. Plus more damage with spellweaving.

The might of the guild passive with entropy though...

Everytime ei proc frag I'll animation cancel entropy and my frags hit that 20% harder. Same with ultimates.

Plus all the mage guild passives...

Think I'll stick with entropy.

Maybe...

Aunatar

Surge lasts 33 seconds and gives you a very powerful self heal. Many times i find myself shooting a dawnbreaker on more players to regen my health using an offensive skill.. it's just too good. With a standard 32% crit chance if you fight against 3 players/mobs, every single aoe cast will regen your health. And don't forget it's 2% more spell dmg while slotted, which is better than 2% magicka in terms of damage

Noerknhar

I think the heal on crit might be something to consider. I currently run on 49% crit (with inner light active), which would enable for a decent self heal.
Nevertheless, PvE damage output would be the main consideration factor for me...

willymchilybily

Noerknhar wrote: »

Hmm. I think I really have to think about whether I keep on using entropy or I switch to surge.

BTW: Entropy lasts 20sec, not 14. It's only the DoT that lasts 14 (checked that yesterday). Therefore, it has 2/3 of the uptime of surge.

I think I will go for surge on my main bar, and entropy on my 2nd bar, so that I can entropy prior to meteor ultimate.

yeah this is what entropy is nice for in PvP for all magicka builds. Entropy before meteor, both abilities trigger +20% on next attack, then you have time to get that burst in with meteors travel time. follow with CC to keep them in the DOT. Sudden urge to level my Sorc more.

quickblade418

I prefer entropy right now because they broke surge with last patch. Yes surge heals used to proc on Velocious curse, magicka detonation , daedric mines etc but now all these spells are considered DOTs even if they only do a ''one time damage'' which is completly stupid. Probably an oversight by the devs , anyway this is already being discussed on some others threads and I hope they will fix it by bringing back these spells in synergy with surge heals


I can cast entropy (585 magicka cost) on multiple targets and it will give several ticks of 1750 heals on top of the direct 1750 health restored immediatly after casting it . Exemple I cast entropy on 3 targets , over 15 seconds I will be healed for about 15k health and done about 10k total damage to the three targets all this for 1750 magicka
Surge cost 2300 magicka and does no damage enought said?

As long as they not bringing back sorc spells that used to ''surge heals'' and that shouldnt be considered DOTs (daedric mines, velocious curse, magicka det) I will stay with my entropy on bar .

Flaminir

quickblade418 wrote: »

I can cast entropy (585 magicka cost) on multiple targets and it will give several ticks of 1750 heals on top of the direct 1750 health restored immediatly after casting it . Exemple I cast entropy on 3 targets , over 15 seconds I will be healed for about 15k health and done about 10k total damage to the three targets all this for 1750 magicka
Surge cost 2300 magicka and does no damage enought said?

Nope... I'd like to say more actually!

To compare surge with your example (Talking from a PvE perspective.... you're right, they need to fix a couple of spells that aren't DoTs but behave as one for surge purposes). - Also what I'm putting below is a very rough & ready example... there are lots of variables in each persons build etc etc)

• I can buff up with Surge before the fight, so zero cast time in a fight. You are casting entropy 3 times in your example.
• In the time it takes you to cast entropy 3 times on differing targets I can get off 3 damage spells.
• Lets say for arguements sake a quite realistic 2x crushing shock and 1x instant frag proc. Thats at least 30k damage... probably more.
• I have 60% crit, so entropy lasts 20 seconds..... lets assume a modest non-ulti baseline of 15k DPS for simple calculation purposes. Thats 300k damage.... of which approx 180k would be crit. CAn't remember what the heal % is exactly... but its 40 something... .that's over a 70k heal in the time you have entropy up!

So to sum up...

30k damage Vs 10k damage
70k heal Vs 15k heal
2300 cost Vs 1750 Cost

I'm happy to pay the extra 500 magicka for those kind of stat increases.

Entropy has many benefits... but the direct damage & heals really shouldn't be taken into account in any major way. The Empower buff can be very handy in some circumstances though (EG dropping a meteor) I grant you.

Dracane

Just to let people know, Entropy's damage buff lasts 21 seconds, not 14 seconds. 14 seconds is only the DoT.

Entropy is doing everything better than Surge, there is no reason to use surge, if you don't intend on stealth attacking people and as a Mage you don't get any direct stealth bonus anyway, so why even bother ?
You get rewarded for casting Entropy with a giant 20% damage bonus on your next attack, it deals damage over time, increases Magicka and regen by 2%, it's basically a free cast and gives you another nice benefit, depending which morph you choose.

You never should be using Surge. In pvp, it's good for archers (but they would be using critical surge anyway) and in pve.... I don't need to mention that entropy is much better here, it offers a signigicant dps boost, while surge does nothing.

Both are damage buffs. But how can you compare them, if 1 of them does everything better damage wise ?

orwangatang

i run entropy. it increases my max health and i get the might of the guild passive, plus it procs frags

Flaminir

Dracane wrote: »

Just to let people know, Entropy's damage buff lasts 21 seconds, not 14 seconds. 14 seconds is only the DoT.

Entropy is doing everything better than Surge, there is no reason to use surge, if you don't intend on stealth attacking people and as a Mage you don't get any direct stealth bonus anyway, so why even bother ?
You get rewarded for casting Entropy with a giant 20% damage bonus on your next attack, it deals damage over time, increases Magicka and regen by 2%, it's basically a free cast and gives you another nice benefit, depending which morph you choose.

You never should be using Surge. In pvp, it's good for archers (but they would be using critical surge anyway) and in pve.... I don't need to mention that entropy is much better here, it offers a signigicant dps boost, while surge does nothing.

Both are damage buffs. But how can you compare them, if 1 of them does everything better damage wise ?

Entropy does not do everything better than surge... not even close.

See my example above. It's not about direct damage from the skill... I can cast an extra damaging skill in the time the extra entropy cast is made compared to surge... that negates the damage entropy does.

I used to use Entropy... been playing with surge again... it's now very good.

They aren't both just damage buff's. If they were then what would be the point of the two skills? People only compare them due to the major sorcery buff being the same.

Entropy does have a very nice empower buff... but that's only 20% on 1 cast every 20 seconds.... hardly ground breaking tbh and definitely not a "significant dps boost".

The heals from surge are now very strong and actually make a very real difference to your survive-ability. This is the BIG difference between the two skills.... most of the buff differences between surge/entropy are fairly small... this is a HUGE difference in the healing output.

The 2% magicka... meh... Surge has 2% spell power which is slightly better dps wise, but again, quite low to be noticed.


P.S. you ask why bother to attack from stealth as there is no damage boost?.... I know you already know the answer to this! Its the element of surprise! If I go rolling in casting buffs like entropy they know you're coming and can block... Cast from stealth after buffing up with Surge and you hit them harder and also take them by surprise... get them stunned and are on the front foot!

quickblade418

Flaminir wrote: »

[*] I have 60% crit, so entropy lasts 20 seconds..... lets assume a modest non-ulti baseline of 15k DPS for simple calculation purposes. Thats 300k damage.... of which approx 180k would be crit. CAn't remember what the heal % is exactly... but its 40 something... .that's over a 70k heal in the time you have entropy up!

That's not realistic at all , tell me what sorcerer single dps besides overload would give you 15k dps (no DOTs) and that will work with surge heals ? You know probably 60% of that 15k dps are DOTs effects.

the only case surge would be better than entropy, is using surge with overload in pve , or pulsar aoe in pve .

But sorry my point was mainly in pvp , i prefer entropy right now, specially that alot of sorc spells arnt synergizing with surge , issues that I already mentionned.

Dracane

Flaminir wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Just to let people know, Entropy's damage buff lasts 21 seconds, not 14 seconds. 14 seconds is only the DoT.

Entropy is doing everything better than Surge, there is no reason to use surge, if you don't intend on stealth attacking people and as a Mage you don't get any direct stealth bonus anyway, so why even bother ?
You get rewarded for casting Entropy with a giant 20% damage bonus on your next attack, it deals damage over time, increases Magicka and regen by 2%, it's basically a free cast and gives you another nice benefit, depending which morph you choose.

You never should be using Surge. In pvp, it's good for archers (but they would be using critical surge anyway) and in pve.... I don't need to mention that entropy is much better here, it offers a signigicant dps boost, while surge does nothing.

Both are damage buffs. But how can you compare them, if 1 of them does everything better damage wise ?

Entropy does not do everything better than surge... not even close.

See my example above. It's not about direct damage from the skill... I can cast an extra damaging skill in the time the extra entropy cast is made compared to surge... that negates the damage entropy does.

I used to use Entropy... been playing with surge again... it's now very good.

They aren't both just damage buff's. If they were then what would be the point of the two skills? People only compare them due to the major sorcery buff being the same.

Entropy does have a very nice empower buff... but that's only 20% on 1 cast every 20 seconds.... hardly ground breaking tbh and definitely not a "significant dps boost".

The heals from surge are now very strong and actually make a very real difference to your survive-ability. This is the BIG difference between the two skills.... most of the buff differences between surge/entropy are fairly small... this is a HUGE difference in the healing output.

The 2% magicka... meh... Surge has 2% spell power which is slightly better dps wise, but again, quite low to be noticed.


P.S. you ask why bother to attack from stealth as there is no damage boost?.... I know you already know the answer to this! Its the element of surprise! If I go rolling in casting buffs like entropy they know you're coming and can block... Cast from stealth after buffing up with Surge and you hit them harder and also take them by surprise... get them stunned and are on the front foot!

Yea that's why I was very direct with my statement. 'No direct benefit' which would be extra damage bonus or something like that. The element of surprise is an indirect benefit in my book.

Well and you wouldn't catch me with casting surge out of stealth. Surge is louder than my drunk father on the weekend. I can hear that loud electric sound (unlike most players who seem to have music on or so and don't pay attention to their environment)

Flaminir

quickblade418 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

[*] I have 60% crit, so entropy lasts 20 seconds..... lets assume a modest non-ulti baseline of 15k DPS for simple calculation purposes. Thats 300k damage.... of which approx 180k would be crit. CAn't remember what the heal % is exactly... but its 40 something... .that's over a 70k heal in the time you have entropy up!

That's not realistic at all , tell me what sorcerer single dps besides overload would give you 15k dps (no DOTs) and that will work with surge heals ? You know probably 60% of that 15k dps are DOTs effects.

the only case surge would be better than entropy, is using surge with overload in pve .

Quite a lot actually... and many are a lot more. I can pull 15k+ without ulti's easily on most bosses and am nowhere near the top DPS sorcs from guilds like Hodor etc.

And if you think 60% of Sorc DPS is dots then I guess you don't play a sorc? More of it comes from stuff like medium attacks, force pulse, frag procs. Liquid Lightning for around 4k being the only notable exception.

And why would you want to exclude overload? That is the bread & butter DPS skill for most sorcs.. and that ends up a LOT over 15k in my very conservative example... and all of that procs surge heals.

As I said earlier.... I used to use Entropy and liked it... but after the buffs to Surge I tried it again.... and discovered that the various buffs that Entropy has over surge are actually very small... but the heal difference is HUGE... that's the main difference why I think Surge is now a real contender....

And in the real (Virtual) world its made a practical difference..... vet Prison final boss last night.... healer & tank wiped..... *** everywhere, my surge heals took me from virtually no health to full in 2 shots... rezzed and carried on. Quite literally a life saver. Entropy can't make that kind of difference with its odd 2% here, and 2% there.

quickblade418

from a pure pve point of view you're totally right , I prefer Surge, not so much in Pvp tho.

Thats why I put surge on my third overload bar just in case, but I have entropy (degeneration morph for more health restoring) on my main bar , in pvp.
In pve , I drop entropy for something else most of the time

Dracane

Flaminir wrote: »

quickblade418 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

[*] I have 60% crit, so entropy lasts 20 seconds..... lets assume a modest non-ulti baseline of 15k DPS for simple calculation purposes. Thats 300k damage.... of which approx 180k would be crit. CAn't remember what the heal % is exactly... but its 40 something... .that's over a 70k heal in the time you have entropy up!

That's not realistic at all , tell me what sorcerer single dps besides overload would give you 15k dps (no DOTs) and that will work with surge heals ? You know probably 60% of that 15k dps are DOTs effects.

the only case surge would be better than entropy, is using surge with overload in pve .

Quite a lot actually... and many are a lot more. I can pull 15k+ without ulti's easily on most bosses and am nowhere near the top DPS sorcs from guilds like Hodor etc.

And why would you want to exclude overload? That is the bread & butter DPS skill for most sorcs.. and that ends up a LOT over 15k in my very conservative example... and all of that procs surge heals.

As I said earlier.... I used to use Entropy and liked it... but after the buffs to Surge I tried it again.... and discovered that the various buffs that Entropy has over surge are actually very small... but the heal difference is HUGE... that's the main difference why I think Surge is now a real contender....

And in the real (Virtual) world its made a practical difference..... vet Prison.... healer & tank wiped..... *** everywhere, my surge heals took me from virtually no health to full in 2 shots... rezzed and carried on. Quite literally a life saver. Entropy can't make that kind of difference with its odd 2% here, and 2% there.

You're talking about heal. But it's a damage buff after all and damage wise, Entropy IS better. The DoT alone is way too good and offers me over 1k DPS for doing nothing basically. Surge can't compensate for this, because Surge offers 0 damage, while Entropy offers 2 damage aspects.

What is wrong here ? Surge electrifies your hands, it should add shock damage to all of your attacks. Then we can compare entropy and surge again. But as long as Surge offers no damage, this discussion is pointless. If you want max damage, entropy is the way to go. Surge is out of the race since Entropy became a spell damage buff in 1.6

Makkir

I think there's a substantial difference if you are talking PvP versus PvE

Flaminir

Dracane wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

quickblade418 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

[*] I have 60% crit, so entropy lasts 20 seconds..... lets assume a modest non-ulti baseline of 15k DPS for simple calculation purposes. Thats 300k damage.... of which approx 180k would be crit. CAn't remember what the heal % is exactly... but its 40 something... .that's over a 70k heal in the time you have entropy up!

That's not realistic at all , tell me what sorcerer single dps besides overload would give you 15k dps (no DOTs) and that will work with surge heals ? You know probably 60% of that 15k dps are DOTs effects.

the only case surge would be better than entropy, is using surge with overload in pve .

Quite a lot actually... and many are a lot more. I can pull 15k+ without ulti's easily on most bosses and am nowhere near the top DPS sorcs from guilds like Hodor etc.

And why would you want to exclude overload? That is the bread & butter DPS skill for most sorcs.. and that ends up a LOT over 15k in my very conservative example... and all of that procs surge heals.

As I said earlier.... I used to use Entropy and liked it... but after the buffs to Surge I tried it again.... and discovered that the various buffs that Entropy has over surge are actually very small... but the heal difference is HUGE... that's the main difference why I think Surge is now a real contender....

And in the real (Virtual) world its made a practical difference..... vet Prison.... healer & tank wiped..... *** everywhere, my surge heals took me from virtually no health to full in 2 shots... rezzed and carried on. Quite literally a life saver. Entropy can't make that kind of difference with its odd 2% here, and 2% there.

You're talking about heal. But it's a damage buff after all and damage wise, Entropy IS better. The DoT alone is way too good and offers me over 1k DPS for doing nothing basically. Surge can't compensate for this, because Surge offers 0 damage, while Entropy offers 2 damage aspects.

What is wrong here ? Surge electrifies your hands, it should add shock damage to all of your attacks. Then we can compare entropy and surge again. But as long as Surge offers no damage, this discussion is pointless. If you want max damage, entropy is the way to go. Surge is out of the race since Entropy became a spell damage buff in 1.6

Think outside the box here..... you have to cast Entropy more than you would have to cast surge.... when you cast Entropy again I cast a proper full damage spell.

So no... the tooltip of surge does zero damage... but in use it allows me to fire off another damaging spell instead due to the fact Surge lasts a lot longer.... and that's your extra damage.

And yes... I'm talking about a heal..... that's a HUGE part of what surge does. You're looking at the two skills as directly comparable as being designed to do the exact same thing! They aren't!!!!

That's the big issue in this debate... .they are very different skills..... some people confuse them because they both offer the same major sorcery buff and say X is better than Y....

Yes Entropy is probably the more offensive of the two due to the empower buff on the next spell... but that's 20% on 1 spell every 20 seconds... hardly ground breaking.

The skills are different.... my preference is Surge because I've found that the Entropy buffs are all very minor in practice.... Surge however gives a very major heal that as a Sorc we don't really get from anywhere else.

Noerknhar

This thread developed into a pretty interesting discussion. I thought it was easier.

Just to let you know: I am talking PvE only. PvP is a different story. I think everyone should sort of flag their response whether they're talking PvE or PvP, because, as Makkir outlined, there is a substantial difference between the two play styles.

So, let's sum up [PvE]:

Entropy:
- 7k damage over 14 seconds
- 21seconds buff duration
- moderate heal (1.7k every 6 seconds)
- increases max HP for 5% (which is, in my current setup, roughly 1.400hp buffed)
- triggers 20% dmg buff for next spell (works with ultimates)

Surge:
- 33seconds buff duration
- pretty nice heal
- increases spell damage for 2% (which is, in my current setup, roughly 60 buffed)


Just from the pure numbers, I'd say that entropy is superior. Let's assume you cast entropy on a boss and go for your standard rotation. The 7k damage over ~20seconds (because you wouldn't renew entropy for the DoT) represent 350dmg noncrit (can DoTs even crit?!). The 20% damage increase sums up to 60-150 dps noncrit (60dps for standard spam cast, 150dps for fragments), so you have an increased dps of 410-450. As you have to renew the cast 33% more often than surge (let's assume that for easier calculation), you muss out one spell over the time frame of 60 seconds (you have to cast entropy 3 times to cover a 60 second period while you have to cast surge only 2 times), resulting in a loss of 100-200dps noncrit (standard spam cast/fragments). This results in an overall increase of 210-350dps (very basic calculation, not including ultimates or movement phases or whatsoever).
On the other hand, surge gives you pretty nasty heal possibilities while entropy increases your max hp. I think that the 2% spell damage can be neglected, as 60 spell damage are (damage wise) equivalent to roughly 600 magicka, which is not that much and easily achievable by other means. Of course, this is a pretty biased calculation and might neglect the 210-350dps increase from entropy.

Is my math or are my assumptions off?

Flaminir

Noerknhar wrote: »

This thread developed into a pretty interesting discussion. I thought it was easier.

Just to let you know: I am talking PvE only. PvP is a different story. I think everyone should sort of flag their response whether they're talking PvE or PvP, because, as Makkir outlined, there is a substantial difference between the two play styles.

So, let's sum up [PvE]:

Entropy:
- 7k damage over 14 seconds
- 21seconds buff duration
- moderate heal (1.7k every 6 seconds)
- increases max HP for 5% (which is, in my current setup, roughly 1.400hp buffed)
- triggers 20% dmg buff for next spell (works with ultimates)

Surge:
- 33seconds buff duration
- pretty nice heal
- increases spell damage for 2% (which is, in my current setup, roughly 60 buffed)


Just from the pure numbers, I'd say that entropy is superior. Let's assume you cast entropy on a boss and go for your standard rotation. The 7k damage over ~20seconds (because you wouldn't renew entropy for the DoT) represent 350dmg noncrit (can DoTs even crit?!). The 20% damage increase sums up to 60-150 dps noncrit (60dps for standard spam cast, 150dps for fragments), so you have an increased dps of 410-450. As you have to renew the cast 33% more often than surge (let's assume that for easier calculation), you muss out one spell over the time frame of 60 seconds (you have to cast entropy 3 times to cover a 60 second period while you have to cast surge only 2 times), resulting in a loss of 100-200dps noncrit (standard spam cast/fragments). This results in an overall increase of 210-350dps (very basic calculation, not including ultimates or movement phases or whatsoever).
On the other hand, surge gives you pretty nasty heal possibilities while entropy increases your max hp. I think that the 2% spell damage can be neglected, as 60 spell damage are (damage wise) equivalent to roughly 600 magicka, which is not that much and easily achievable by other means. Of course, this is a pretty biased calculation and might neglect the 210-350dps increase from entropy.

Is my math or are my assumptions off?

By my calculations:

Entropy doing 7k over 20 seconds.... Thats 21k per minute.
I get off 1 15k frag in the time it takes you to cast your extra entropy.

SO Entropy is doing around 6k damage more per minute.

That's 100 DPS.

100 DPS is nothing......absolutely no trade off at all for the size of the heal you get from surge IMHO. Surge has quite literally prevented me from wiping and being able to bring my whole group back from the dead in the new vet dungeons when the healer got killed..... Entropy has nothing so strong in any way.

Also worth noting.... the extra health from entropy isn't really an issue. Its very unlikely that there is space for that on anybdies primary bar as a sorc (Inner light & Bound Aegis already there).

Sorry.... I used to use Entropy.... but now I've played with the new Surge.... the heal is just TOO good in PVE to swap back for a couple of un-noticeable buffs that really don't do hardly anything at all for your DPS.

By all means... if you're already pulling 20-25k as a sorc then fair enough... .look for every last tiny bit... but I reckon most people are better off looking at and concentrating on the rest of their rotations and will get more benefit from that.