VWGT 2nd boss scroll platform - EXPLOIT or INTENDED mechanic

GCVDJ11T

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert

The three DK 2nd boss fight in VWGT. Is it an intended mechanic that a DK can jump up on the scroll platform chain up either the sword and board or the mage and they stay trapped up there allowing the DPS to easily take them out from range?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

AHAHAH This is awesome. Inb4 thread lock.

All the new dungeons are getting farmed.

All hail Szeknorist. The scorpion we all chained in craglorn to grind from V1 to V14 in a few days.

Personofsecrets

The sword and board enemy can chain themselves off

The dual wield enemy can teleport off

The caster enemy can teleport off

GCVDJ11T

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

AHAHAH This is awesome. Inb4 thread lock.

All the new dungeons are getting farmed.

All hail Szeknorist. The scorpion we all chained in craglorn to grind from V1 to V14 in a few days.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! I remember my friend General K going out and screwing up the Bitterroot Grind just to be a troll. The days of the players that would rage on legit questers at the Shadow Grind.

GCVDJ11T

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The sword and board enemy can chain themselves off

The dual wield enemy can teleport off

The caster enemy can teleport off

Not on our run. The tank said let me show you this new strat. He didn't chain up the dual wield because he does ambush. We killed the dual wield and I made the tank wait so I could watch. In our fight the sword and board never chained himself off. He would randomly chain one of us up. He stayed up there for 5 minutes until I finally felt sorry for the trapped fellow and we killed him. Then we did the same with the fire star caster. He never chained us up or chained himself off. He just dropped his standards and corrosive while we gave him 5 minutes.

If ZOS doesn't fix and it is intended then everyone should know that a metor can knock off the trapped dudes. Also volcanic rune knocks them off too.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

AHAHAH This is awesome. Inb4 thread lock.

All the new dungeons are getting farmed.

All hail Szeknorist. The scorpion we all chained in craglorn to grind from V1 to V14 in a few days.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! I remember my friend General K going out and screwing up the Bitterroot Grind just to be a troll. The days of the players that would rage on legit questers at the Shadow Grind.

Was that someone named General Kek? Yeah I remember him. Most people just raged at him. Fools. I found a way to defeat him easily.

All you had to do is get your DKs in the grinding group to chain pull the baby scorpions away from him and pull them far enough away until they lost agro and snapped back. By that time, the rest of the team had DPSed the main boss.

Trolls thought they were so clever interrupting our grind but at least the groups I was leading always found ways around them.

If you are talking about the Bittermaw grind, that was the one after the scorpion got fixed. I was the one who discovered that grind. Proudest day of my life.

Cut off one head, three more take its place. Hail Gryndra.

Kerioko

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert

The three DK 2nd boss fight in VWGT. Is it an intended mechanic that a DK can jump up on the scroll platform chain up either the sword and board or the mage and they stay trapped up there allowing the DPS to easily take them out from range?

Has anyone tried putting a rearming trap up there before pulling them up. Let the trap do your killing for you!

GCVDJ11T

Kerioko wrote: »

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert

The three DK 2nd boss fight in VWGT. Is it an intended mechanic that a DK can jump up on the scroll platform chain up either the sword and board or the mage and they stay trapped up there allowing the DPS to easily take them out from range?

Has anyone tried putting a rearming trap up there before pulling them up. Let the trap do your killing for you!

I think that ZOS should create a new forum specifically for exploits and bugs so we can theory craft and post "exploit" tips and tricks, exp grind locations and videos. This way while they are working on the fix PvP'rs will be aware and prepared. PvE'rs will be able to grind for gear and levels before the fix. So many posts get missed and forgotten down the thread line.

*Shrugs shoulders
This is my first MMO so my integration of integrity is actually viewed in a negative way by most.

Personofsecrets

IT MUST BE EITHER EXPLOIT OR INTENDED. ONLY THOSE 2

Contraptions

The funniest thing is that they allowed the bosses to be CCable.

I'm not gonna bother explaining why that's a terrible idea.

Sotha_Sil

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

AHAHAH This is awesome. Inb4 thread lock.

All the new dungeons are getting farmed.

All hail Szeknorist. The scorpion we all chained in craglorn to grind from V1 to V14 in a few days.

All hail the mighty tree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0XndhZKgVk

Personofsecrets

Contraptions wrote: »

The funniest thing is that they allowed the bosses to be CCable.

I'm not gonna bother explaining why that's a terrible idea.

Don't bother, because it is a good thing.

Scyantific

"Working as intended" - Wrobel 2015

GCVDJ11T

Personofsecrets - do you think this is an exploit or as intended?

Frawr

They have to be ccable to get them out of their ultimate.

They're not that hard so it's hardly a big deal either way.

Or the guys that I've done it with are awesome. Probably that as I am a lousy healer but we still survive.

Personofsecrets

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

Personofsecrets - do you think this is an exploit or as intended?

As I already tried to imply. It is silly to discuss this mechanic within the framework of a false dichotomy.

GCVDJ11T

Ok I'm trying to follow you here. You stated above in caps that it is either an explot or intended no other option. Now you're saying it's silly to discuss this because it's black or white?

I'm asking an honest question to you as I respect your opinion. I've seen your multiple posts. I've heard of LT as a kick a$$ tank in game.

When I refused this strat becuse let's face it they are not that hard to kill when you know the mechanics, the tank was shocked and offended that I thought t was an exploit.

As one of the best tanks in game LT, exploit or mechanic?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

AHAHAH This is awesome. Inb4 thread lock.

All the new dungeons are getting farmed.

All hail Szeknorist. The scorpion we all chained in craglorn to grind from V1 to V14 in a few days.

All hail the mighty tree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0XndhZKgVk

OMG the tree They uprooted the entire damn tree! I was so sad. But you could also go into that cave behind her and do the same thing. She wouldn't enter the cave and her spiders were too big. needed a bit more heals but it was even faster than the tree.

Personofsecrets

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

Ok I'm trying to follow you here. You stated above in caps that it is either an explot or intended no other option. Now you're saying it's silly to discuss this because it's black or white?

I'm asking an honest question to you as I respect your opinion. I've seen your multiple posts. I've heard of LT as a kick a$$ tank in game.

When I refused this strat becuse let's face it they are not that hard to kill when you know the mechanics, the tank was shocked and offended that I thought t was an exploit.

As one of the best tanks in game LT, exploit or mechanic?

@GCVDJ11T

Is being able to CC intended or a mechanic? -

Who knows if using the pedestal was intended? Who even knows if being able to CC boss enemies is intended? I hope it is intended as it opens up a bunch of new possibilities for what can be done.

Is the pedestal an exploit (1.make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).)? -

Yes, by putting an enemy on the pedestal, players derive a benefit.

Was an exploit intended with the pedestal? -

Probably not, but at the same time I think the developers should have known about the pedestal being used. Chaining an enemy there was the literal first thing that I thought of on the PTS.

If this is an unintended exploit, then what will the developers do?

Who knows what they will do? Usually there are patches that fix a fight, but at the same time, part of Matt Firor's vision is that it is great when players go ahead an do what they want despite the design intentions. Killing the room full of Kwama and automatons by walking up a ramp in Darkshade caverns is still fair game, but sneaking past the dwemmer army is now forbidden. It is really tough to predict what fix will happen to what exploit when fixes are given out in such a piecemeal way.

Are exploits bad? -

This depends on quite a bit.

Let's say that a player created 10 million tempering alloys tomorrow and distributed them to players. Well, in my opinion, that wouldn't be that big of a deal or change the game that much.

Let's say that re-arming trap is never fixed. This exploit is more problematic for me because of how much it warps combat. This exploit will really ruin leader boards and, potentially, parts of PVP

Let's talk about the pedestal being used. This exploit really doesn't bug me. As you say, it isn't a tough fight either way, and I therefore don't see the reward for exploiting enemies onto the pedestal as game warping enough to be a problem.

LT and exploits -

I've enjoyed exploiting different fights - let me explain.

In dark shade caverns, I used to run with a team that, in patch 1.5, would skip past all of the trash enemies and mini-bosses. We would do so by purposefully dying at certain points and ghost walking. Certainly this isn't intended.

In banished cells Keeper Imiril could get trapped in a rolling animation depending on where the group was standing. I went with groups that could easily defeat Imiril without using that exploit, but I had no issue watching Imiril roll around while with groups that didn't have the DPS to kill Imiril before the portals added up too much. Certainly this isn't intended.

In banished cells, I enjoy bringing the two harvester mini-bosses into the final boss fight. It is quite a bit of fun to hold onto them and multiple daedroth. Certainly this isn't intended.

I saved purple keys for months in anticipation for the shoulder drop rate to be increased. In patch 1.6 it was and I had 100 keys to spend with the increased drop rate. I am saving keys again in order to immediately obtain whatever Orsinium has to offer. Certainly this isn't intended.

Exploit philosophy that could help the developers -

People exploit when they find something too boring, daunting, or trivial to do when not exploiting. Look at skipping trials trash. They don't really add much of importance to the instance and that made people exploit them by running past them. Look at Spawn of Mephala. Developers have reworked this fight over and over which leads me to believe that the fight has never really worked how the developers wanted - maybe players who used to stand on the bridge to fight the Spawn used the bridge for the same reason that the developers made changes. Look at re-arming trap and the new veteran dungeons. Players are abusing that exploit in WGT and ICP, but I have yet to see the exploit lead to an insane trials score - maybe this has to do with the gear from those dungeons being set at a very low drop rate with the bad trait possibility always looming.

LT in general -

I really don't see myself as that good. I'm not really in a guild or group that has been dedicated to clearing content in the top way possible. I'm bad at PVP. I play at 10, sometimes less, frames per second.

I suppose what I do have is a willingness to try new strategies and gearing. That is probably why, as a tank, that I DPS on Valariel and heal on the Mage. It is probably why I have threads containing large charts that indicate block cost reduction. It is probably why I don't mind seeing the game broken (to an extend) from time to time.

Doing things that others want -

Should you do what your group wants? Probably so, but if you are against it for whatever reason, then find out before hand what they want of you.

For example, a group yesterday wanted to kill the 3 Alit for the chance at getting a jewelry set from the Darkshade Caverns final boss. I told them they misunderstood the patch note about the jewelry sets, I thought it was dumb, I wouldn't have went with them if I knew they were going to want to clear the Alit, but I went along with the flow.

For example, my old sanctum group refused to stack our players between the Stonebreaker's legs. It really peeved me that nobody would listen to my idea and try it just a single time, but I wasn't the leader getting to make the calls, so I went along with it.

For example, one raid leader that I play with sounded excited for me to try the Imperium set. I really don't care for it nor want to use it, but here I am, happy to get an Imperium drop, because I will probably be expected to use it in the future.

GCVDJ11T

Thank you for taking the time to write the synopsis. I value your insight. I was struggling with what is an exploit vs "I never thought of doing that" strategy.

I'm boring and probably what the dev's want in a player. I learn the boss mechanics and then work out the strategy to clear based on us all trying different class skills/positioning. I'm not creative enough to look at the environment and say hey let's try putting the sword and board in time out on the pedestal. Hahaha!

However I do feel that if a skill is bugged or broken like rearming trap then yes it is an exploit. I don't need to use it to clear VWGT and I have all the achievements not using it. My thought is they will get around to fixing it so I never want to be that player that posts the achievement but can never repeat it.

BuggeX

why would someone bugg the easyst boss in this dungeon?