Crafters should be able to change gear traits

STEVIL

i do not want this and really really do not want this.

already the vast majority of crafting i do is to upgrade drop sets.

if we can change drop sets traits, the one impactful advantage really that crafted sets have is gone - the ability to craft the exact traits you want.

if this goes thru the basic purpose of crafting further devolves into "support for drop sets."

having to farm for drop sets is a trade off against the customization for crafteds. its not enough, with the massive upgrades to sets in 1T but letting trait change for drop sets happen is like almost the final nail in crafted sets.

there are other improvements to crafted systems that need to be done, but allowing more support mechanics for drops is not one of them.

Crown

@STEVIL Have you tried to get a sharpened weapon of a drop set? How about a Shield with a trait that is actually useful? Monster set shoulders from the daily pledges? Items with traits of value from PvP boxes?

Some people get them the first try (not many), others spent more than 110 hours farming for a particular dropped item with no luck, and yet others have used over 200 pledge keys without a shoulders that is usable. Some people have spent over 10 million AP trying to get a usable 5-set of one of the PvP crate sets with no luck.

That is not reasonable, nor is it fun, though people consider it necessary to be able to play and have fun while being effective.

STEVIL wrote: »

if we can change drop sets traits, the one impactful advantage really that crafted sets have is gone - the ability to craft the exact traits you want

That's not an advantage - the advantage of any give drop set is the set bonuses that it offers as you can get dropped sets and crate sets with any trait if you want to spend the time.

FleetwoodSmack

Crown wrote: »

@STEVIL Have you tried to get a sharpened weapon of a drop set? How about a Shield with a trait that is actually useful? Monster set shoulders from the daily pledges? Items with traits of value from PvP boxes?

Some people get them the first try (not many), others spent more than 110 hours farming for a particular dropped item with no luck, and yet others have used over 200 pledge keys without a shoulders that is usable. Some people have spent over 10 million AP trying to get a usable 5-set of one of the PvP crate sets with no luck.

That is not reasonable, nor is it fun, though people consider it necessary to be able to play and have fun while being effective.

STEVIL wrote: »

if we can change drop sets traits, the one impactful advantage really that crafted sets have is gone - the ability to craft the exact traits you want

That's not an advantage - the advantage of any give drop set is the set bonuses that it offers as you can get dropped sets and crate sets with any trait if you want to spend the time.

I've been grinding CoH I and II; Vet and Normal for almost a week straight. I've yet to find the sharpened staves I want (two sharpened Resto Staves of the Lich). I mean Infused is useful in it's own right, but... Not when you wear heavy. It's no longer becoming fun or reasonable. What do I get? Leviathan, Leviathan, Ebon, Leviathan, OH LOOK A BOW OF THE LICH. Training. ._.

AzuraKin

Ourorboros wrote: »

Allowing anyone everyone to change traits or make other major crafting changes would also significantly change the game. It would be more interesting to introduce a quest, or series of quests, that grant higher level crafting abilities to Level 50 crafters who complete the quest(s). They would become sought after in-game for having these abilities. ZOS would then be fulfilling it's promise of making crafting valuable, while also introducing some diversity into the crafting economy.

lets make it cost 100 trillion dollars?

no sir, in todays world 100 trillion dollars is chump change, they will merely laugh at you.

lets make it cost 200 trillion crowns?

good idea sir.

STEVIL

Crown wrote: »

@STEVIL Have you tried to get a sharpened weapon of a drop set? How about a Shield with a trait that is actually useful? Monster set shoulders from the daily pledges? Items with traits of value from PvP boxes?

Some people get them the first try (not many), others spent more than 110 hours farming for a particular dropped item with no luck, and yet others have used over 200 pledge keys without a shoulders that is usable. Some people have spent over 10 million AP trying to get a usable 5-set of one of the PvP crate sets with no luck.

That is not reasonable, nor is it fun, though people consider it necessary to be able to play and have fun while being effective.

STEVIL wrote: »

if we can change drop sets traits, the one impactful advantage really that crafted sets have is gone - the ability to craft the exact traits you want

That's not an advantage - the advantage of any give drop set is the set bonuses that it offers as you can get dropped sets and crate sets with any trait if you want to spend the time.

@Crown

Answers to most of those is yes. i run pledges daily, typically hit at least one to two delves, mosnter shoulders - yeah sure and yes absolutely every time i see charged or prosperous or training or any of the others that aren't in the optimal top grouping it is a bit of a let down.

Am i in favor of them altering their loot tables to make it less of a grind, absolutely. Would i be in favor of some sort of token system that meant even the training and prosperous traits sets pieces could be turned into something useful - other than decon - yes absolutely.

Am i in favor of them rebalancing traits to make them more balanced so that ANY drop is useful enough to be worth the trouble - yes. (i am in favor of overhaul away from math-v-math traits to circumstantial traits where a trait's effectiveness varies from challenge to challenge so no trait is BEST everywhere and every trait is BESt somewhere - in fact)

Am in in favor of them basically eliminating the grind and further turning crafting into "support your drop sets" by allowing trait changes on drop sets just because of the way the RNG is now when there are so many other alternatives to fix that problem - NO WAY!

There are lots of ways to address the trait hunt and especially the weapon odds issues with drop sets that dont involve taking away an edge (easy trait control) that crafted sets have now.

And, sorry but yes it is an advantage to be able to quickly set the right traits because for most people, time is a resource - and time not spent gathering the wrong traits can be spent using the right traits.

So we will have to agree to disagree that changing drop set traits thru crafting is a good solution for the current drop set trait and trait imbalance issues.

STEVIL

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

@STEVIL Have you tried to get a sharpened weapon of a drop set? How about a Shield with a trait that is actually useful? Monster set shoulders from the daily pledges? Items with traits of value from PvP boxes?

Some people get them the first try (not many), others spent more than 110 hours farming for a particular dropped item with no luck, and yet others have used over 200 pledge keys without a shoulders that is usable. Some people have spent over 10 million AP trying to get a usable 5-set of one of the PvP crate sets with no luck.

That is not reasonable, nor is it fun, though people consider it necessary to be able to play and have fun while being effective.

STEVIL wrote: »

if we can change drop sets traits, the one impactful advantage really that crafted sets have is gone - the ability to craft the exact traits you want

That's not an advantage - the advantage of any give drop set is the set bonuses that it offers as you can get dropped sets and crate sets with any trait if you want to spend the time.

I've been grinding CoH I and II; Vet and Normal for almost a week straight. I've yet to find the sharpened staves I want (two sharpened Resto Staves of the Lich). I mean Infused is useful in it's own right, but... Not when you wear heavy. It's no longer becoming fun or reasonable. What do I get? Leviathan, Leviathan, Ebon, Leviathan, OH LOOK A BOW OF THE LICH. Training. ._.

I agree completely and think any of several changes need to be made to fix that issue.

I think the most fundamental is to fix the traits so sharpened isn't "the only trait worth having" to so many people.

i think another is a serious revisit to drop tables.

Like i say above, i agree this is a problem, i just dont believe the answer is one that cuts down another crafted set advantage.

I am more for several of the ones i list above - mostly changing traits so no single trait is best everywhere and every trait is best somewhere.

And you dont have to put another nail in the coffin of crafted gear at the same time.

STEVIL

AzuraKin wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Allowing anyone everyone to change traits or make other major crafting changes would also significantly change the game. It would be more interesting to introduce a quest, or series of quests, that grant higher level crafting abilities to Level 50 crafters who complete the quest(s). They would become sought after in-game for having these abilities. ZOS would then be fulfilling it's promise of making crafting valuable, while also introducing some diversity into the crafting economy.

lets make it cost 100 trillion dollars?

no sir, in todays world 100 trillion dollars is chump change, they will merely laugh at you.

lets make it cost 200 trillion crowns?

good idea sir.

IMO adding a capability but then giving it a threshold to reach to use is just subbing one grind to infinity for another.

IF trait change were added, and i am not in favor of it, it should IMO work like research did.

You "start" the changeover and in say a week or a month the trait is changed. maybe base the time for the change on the old research tree using tier-8 = traits known for the calculation of how long it takes. let the old research passive figure in too with allowing you to change multiple at once or reduce time - so those traits have an end game role as opposed to being respec out once you have all nine traits known.

this keeps the "time delay" to getting the right piece that the current grind grind grind has, but it allows you to run any content you want while the clock ticks.

But really, i dont think "trait change" is an answer they will go for - because their world design in 1T emphasizes grind for the right trait. i cannot see them adding anything that takes that grin basically out.

On the other hand, they are likely to try and make traits more useful, so any drop has its role, and likely to redo the loot tables a little more.

IMO of course.

Stopnaggin

jcaceresw wrote: »

This is something that exists on Diablo 3 with some differences but is like the proposed idea. However, any trait change should make the gear "bind on account".

That would mean you will have to level crafting to do it for yourself. Which not everyone is interested in.

Stopnaggin

CGPsaint wrote: »

@Crown - I would love to take you up on your generous offer, however I am not one of the Master Race. I'm just a lowly Console Peasant, however at least I'm on Xbox One instead of PS4.

You can hit me up I can make most, only have a few left to research.

altemriel

Crown wrote: »

RNG seems to favour well-fitted on a lot of the new VR16 dropped sets.

I'm sure that @ZOS_GinaBruno can look up stats on how many people actually use this trait, though I'm certain that the grand majority (if not every single one) only uses it because they've not gotten a better trait on their gear.

At this point in the maturity of the game, with an average of 160 hours of grinding (based on data collected from about 30 people) needed to get a single dropped set with optimized traits, I believe that something needs to be done in order to allow players to do what they WANT to do in game, and not feel the need to just keep on grinding.

It should be relatively simple to integrate as an option for crafters. Spend a few materials, and even 10 traits of the one you WANT in order to change existing gear to that trait.

On another note, the drop rate for sets in the Prison and Tower are abysmal. As a PvP player, I don't want to have to spend a solid month grinding in order to let me get back to what I WANT to do - which is PvP. Many will see this as just another QQ'er complaining about something, though I truly believe that this is a valid issue that could easily be addressed to make a LOT of people MUCH happier in game.

Have a nice weekend!

trait change!!!! yes pls!!!!

miteba

@Crown has posted a really nice topic, which should be reviewed by ZOS, aswell the comunication issue
@STEVIL point of view is well fundamentaded and probably explains why this ideia hasn´t been implemented yet

Anyway i think this should be implemented, it is always better to have the option to do it rather not have an option at all...
BUT it should be only made by players who had special skills for that, like a certification!

ZOS could allow this "certification" through several ways like:
- a complex master crafter quest
- a combination of crafting achievements
- after the player has done x writs minimun
- etc etc etc

And after the certification aquired, you would have to use some specific rare items for the process... like the new "aetherial dust" or "perfect roe" ...

Something like this would give even more options to the game itself... would motivate more crafters and ... everybody would be happier imo

Lore_lai

If they ever decide to do this, then I pray it's not more RNG!

Someone above mentioned getting Aetherial Dust to convert - ugh pls NO. That would entirely defeat the purpose of what @Crown is suggesting because, yes, you skip the RNG grind to get the item/ trait but then you have to RNG grind to get that Dust. Like - LOL.

I am SO tired of crappy RNG in this game, it's not even funny. I think I have opened over 300 keys on the right chest to try to get Medium Kra'gh Divines and I have gotten ZERO. Sure - I probably have gotten multiple Bogdan the Lameflame medium Divines or more Engine Guardian Medium Divines than I could decon but no Kra'gh. It's ridiculous.
And even more ridiculous to see that "Arm Cops" tooltip FINALLY, only to mouse over it an see Training and Prosperous.

miteba

Lore_lai wrote: »

Someone above mentioned getting Aetherial Dust to convert - ugh pls NO. That would entirely defeat the purpose of what @Crown is suggesting because, yes, you skip the RNG grind to get the item/ trait but then you have to RNG grind to get that Dust. Like - LOL.

Sure @Lore_lai !
But they will never implement a system like the OP sugested without some RNG or other "barriers"

I remember that players only were fishing for the achievement and everybody criticized the fishing system so making xp potions with "perfect roes" solved that, a little bit at least and opened the ingame economy to more crafting items beside tempers and kutas etc etc

Aetherial Dust or perfect roes are only some good examples that ZOS can explore to widen the crafting options like this topic or even future jewerly crafting
Sure no one likes RNG but it´s slightiest better to farm some rare item for couple of hours than lots and lots of hours farming vMA weapons or other equips with the prefered trait

STEVIL

miteba wrote: »

@Crown has posted a really nice topic, which should be reviewed by ZOS, aswell the comunication issue
@STEVIL point of view is well fundamentaded and probably explains why this ideia hasn´t been implemented yet

Anyway i think this should be implemented, it is always better to have the option to do it rather not have an option at all...
BUT it should be only made by players who had special skills for that, like a certification!

ZOS could allow this "certification" through several ways like:
- a complex master crafter quest
- a combination of crafting achievements
- after the player has done x writs minimun
- etc etc etc

And after the certification aquired, you would have to use some specific rare items for the process... like the new "aetherial dust" or "perfect roe" ...

Something like this would give even more options to the game itself... would motivate more crafters and ... everybody would be happier imo

Actually i wouldn't mind a full "crafter oriented DLC" for end game crafter content. "Artisan's Journey"

Include:
Quest for each craft set to be run at master level 50. Final bonus is a unique craft element/recipe/etc.
main Quest dealing with completing as many or all of the others and something extra - the VMSA VMOL equivalent where having all six mastered on one character is key but having two or more is beneficial. Again, final reward is unique craft capability of some sort.
Superior crafting ."dailies" that run in addition to not on top of writs. Could include "recovering" valuable gear and repairing it or gathering special ingredients.
Delves and world bosses that provide not necessarily access to sets but to special mats and motifs - maybe even mimic stones.

Not sure if it would be a sellable DLC but if it could be worked into a zone... who knows.

Heck, folks weren't working up Tg and DB before those DLCs... but a lot do work up some crafting and this as a possible end game content for crafters seems plausible and interesting to me.

RebornV3x

Maybe 1 or 2 skill points and 9 Traits on every piece in that profession to be able to change traits on gear this would make playwrs that spent alot of time researching traits an put 9 traits master craters in high demand