Reverse the Imp City Patch!

Lord-Otto

Hello and have a nice weekend, everyone!


I'll get straight to the point, weekend time is limited and precious indeed,
remove the latest patch and bring back pre-Imp-City status!

So far, nothing good has come from this patch. Where to even start?

- bugs, lots of them, even guild banks are bugged
- very questionable balancing decisions (Flame Clench, gg)
- PvP is DEAD!
- the terrible new marvel-comic skill pictures... are you hiring artists from elementary school now, ZOS?
- cutting our regeneration, damage and ultimate while buffing enemies' damage... holy, whose great idea was that?
- and of course your master plan to nerf us back to V12 stats, so that we have to grind V16 stuff to just get our old status back... gg, ZOS, gg.

I thought this game was already terrible... I salute, you guys found a way to make it even worse. And with all the great games incoming or already out, you better look into stuff and reverse this newest nonsense ASAP!

Have a good day, I did what I could, rest is up to you.

TheShadowScout

Some people love IC, some hate IC, some are neutral about it.

If you love it, go there and enjoy.

If you are neutral about it, do whatever.

If you hate it, just stay away and wait for Orsinium.

Making demands to change averything to please only one side? Not such a bright idea...

Yonkit

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Some people love IC, some hate IC, some are neutral about it.

If you love it, go there and enjoy.

If you are neutral about it, do whatever.

If you hate it, just stay away and wait for Orsinium.

Making demands to change averything to please only one side? Not such a bright idea...

I don't see how you can logically like the actual game changing grind fest that is IC. The new content is sweet, but I think he's just asking for the skill changes and what not to be brought back to last patch, and the set changes, but keep the IC and the new content.

Lord-Otto

Well, the people have been there pre-Imp, right? So they were perfectly fine with that. Both sides happy.
However, people forcing into not playing the new status, as you suggest, would mean driving quite a chunk off. Just to please those few guys that were okay with pre-Imp even more.
THAT is not a bright idea.

Lord-Otto

Yonkit wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Some people love IC, some hate IC, some are neutral about it.

If you love it, go there and enjoy.

If you are neutral about it, do whatever.

If you hate it, just stay away and wait for Orsinium.

Making demands to change averything to please only one side? Not such a bright idea...

I don't see how you can logically like the actual game changing grind fest that is IC. The new content is sweet, but I think he's just asking for the skill changes and what not to be brought back to last patch, and the set changes, but keep the IC and the new content.

Yup, thank you!

Yeah, of course, IC can stay, I'm referring to the gase-game patch only.

TheShadowScout

First people complain a lot how the game is too easy, how they get bored facerolling everything. Then ZOS reacts, rebalances... and now players complain about how they got nerfed and how the mobs got buffed, how there are new bugs (like with every update, duh) and how the game is too hard...

Sure, there are some kinks to work out. Some changes may be... suboptimal.
But saying "no, throw all your work away and let us go back", that's not gonna happen, thus its not a bright idea. Especially if you offer no more reasoning then "waaaah, it's baaad, mm'kay".
If you want to make some point, pick the worst offenders, explain why you think they are a really bad idea, and present some thoughts on how they could be done better. That might find some listening, lurking developers attention...

Anyways, details...

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- bugs, lots of them, even guild banks are bugged

Duh. Every big update comes with some kinks to work out. Which they will, in the following patches. Yeah, it would be nice if ZOS was such a big company that they had ten times the staff to do more testing and bugsquishing. Unfortunately one has to work with what one has, not with what one wishes is avaiable. That's life.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- very questionable balancing decisions (Flame Clench, gg)

In that one point I might even find some agreement here and there... I am not happy with how my sorcs Dark Conversion works now, it seems pretty... meh. But this is a point where you need to go into detail... say what vexes you and why, and how it might be better.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- PvP is DEAD!

I got dead through PvP, again and again. Both in Cyrodil, and in IC. So, what else is new, that's how my PvP usually goes... but PvP itself seemed very much alive when I went for it.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- the terrible new marvel-comic skill pictures... are you hiring artists from elementary school now, ZOS?

Matters of taste, eye of the beholder, et cetera. So you don#t like this or that, I find it neat to have the icons more different to better tell one from the other. No biggie either way.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- cutting our regeneration, damage and ultimate while buffing enemies' damage... holy, whose great idea was that?

Like mentioned above, people have been complaining about the "too easy content" for ages now. In PvP it changes nothing since everyone got the same change, and for PvE it does make for a more enjoyable game IMO. Can't speak about dungeons, some of them may perhaps be iffy now... and possibly require some more work, but everything else, including the IC mobs... I am liking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- and of course your master plan to nerf us back to V12 stats, so that we have to grind V16 stuff to just get our old status back...

So? See above for the "nerfed!" comments... people have been complaining about their characters power making the game too easy for a while, so now things got rebalanced. Not the first time this happened, might happen again if things go different then the developers expect... things change. Don't whine about it, subbest ways how they could chage again for the better!

BaldusMageezack

It's MMO it's going to change very often. The only thing i really dislike is the snare bug that amps them up times a million they need to fix that

Lord-Otto

Well Scout, this isn't a blind "whaaa!"-thread. I gave points, and you're even thinking about them. Would be nice if you actually thought before typing, dude.

The hard PvE part should be raids and such, for the oh so awesome skillZboyZ. But instead, especially low-levels got nerfed rather brutally. Also, nerfing us while buffing mobs results in double the difference. Why not just buff mobs?

Feel free to like the new pictures... However, they don't meet the style of the other pictures, which is OBJECTIVELY bad. It's not about color markings here, it's more like putting Spiderman next to Mona Lisa.

What's a PTS for if they are not testing anything? You telling me no one accessed the guild bank during the testing?

Don't know about your PvP, mine is dead. They're all in Imp City, or not bothering with waiting ques.

Lord-Otto

Also, because it's an MMO, it doesn't have the right to claim new is always better. Look at humans, we experimented a bit with some forms of governments, and most decided that the good old democracy and some others are still the best. Sometimes "new" is not "better". Take a step back and improve upon the old, working system. That's also creating something new.

Xendyn

Not sure who or where you're pvping, mine's alive and well. It's fun to be able to run in 8-10 man groups and hunt the sewers.
Much better than having to battle the lagsploiters and hackers up top with numbers, skills not working, stacked on the flag to see who wins by attrition.
We have options now, I like that.

TheShadowScout

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Look at humans, we experimented a bit with some forms of governments, and most decided that the good old democracy and some others are still the best.

Actually... democracy is the worst system of government. It just works a bit better then all the others...
(or if we want to go beyond phrases, it is the most inefficient system, but all the more efficient are also more efficient at being bad)

In any case, new is not always better, true.
But then, "good old" isn't always better either.

Which brings me back to my main point... don't just say "its bad" explain why you think its bad.
Which is what you failed to do in your origila post from where I am looking...
You didn't give any details, you just went with "this is bad... that is bad... this is bad too..."
If you want a discussion, say what exactly, say why you consider it bad at the very least.
Then you may get less snarky replies too...

Lord-Otto wrote: »

...But instead, especially low-levels got nerfed rather brutally. Also, nerfing us while buffing mobs results in double the difference. Why not just buff mobs?

Well, I always found the low level content to be way too easy myself, even back when I was just learning how to play the game (stupid "fresh out of the wailing prison" decisions like charging a level 5 strong mob at level 3 without proper gear aside). And I have seen all those "game is too easy, game is boring, game is faceroll, etc." threads. So, ZOS reacted, and rebalanced.

True, they could just have buffed mobs. They choose to rebalance across the board. Thier game, their decision -shrugs-. And yeah, some of it may be suboptimal... in which case there will be "the new -insert ability- is no good because -reason-, why did they change it?" threads in which there will be agreement, disagreement, and suggestions how it could be better, which may at some point find their way into some developers ear. Notice how your OP didn't follow that pattern? Maybe put up some definite points next, and give your -reasons- (and no, "ah, dun wikes dat" isn't a proper reason for discussion) why you think they are bad, so we can discuss that, huh?

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Don't know about your PvP, mine is dead. They're all in Imp City, or not bothering with waiting ques.

In my PvP lands, -most- are in IC, true, where I go to get ganked by them, dodge the zergs (and yeah, those are a problem in my opinion as well) and occasionally even have some successes against the gankmeister quads despite being an barely adequate PvPer. (sometimes the "success" is just getting away from them alive...)
But... there are always some small groups working the land, taking keeps for the PvP buffs, or defending them for the other side. Going back and forth, sometimes painful, sometimes pleasent, usually fun. Heck, even the losses can be fun, like when I ran into the three DC while doing Bruna... it was clear I'd get beaten (duh), but I managed to take their weakest down first, and boy did that make me feel good. (the AD dragonknight I met in the south half an hour later who wiped the floor with me an a nightblade simultanously was not as much fun though, but hey, that's how it goes in cyrodil - sometimes you just get your respawn ticket punched, the trick is not to get vexed about it... I guess...)
The main thing is - there are more options now then there were before. Daily PvE with gankage chance, dwelve grinding, keep-taking, sewer runs of IC district play... all that's cyrodil now, meaning two more options. You can never have enough options, if one is sour due to overgankers clearing your clocks, explore one of the others.

Queues on the other hand... yeah, at high time Azuras Star and Trueflame (my main characters home and guest) is all filled up, and that's on PC, I recking console may be worse... would be nice to have some more spread, but I expect in time when the IC excitement wanes it will get better again. And I can be patient... (though I am considering starting to PvP on my alts as well...for more options)

zornyan

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hello and have a nice weekend, everyone!


I'll get straight to the point, weekend time is limited and precious indeed,
remove the latest patch and bring back pre-Imp-City status!

So far, nothing good has come from this patch. Where to even start?

- bugs, lots of them, even guild banks are bugged
- very questionable balancing decisions (Flame Clench, gg)
- PvP is DEAD!
- the terrible new marvel-comic skill pictures... are you hiring artists from elementary school now, ZOS?
- cutting our regeneration, damage and ultimate while buffing enemies' damage... holy, whose great idea was that?
- and of course your master plan to nerf us back to V12 stats, so that we have to grind V16 stuff to just get our old status back... gg, ZOS, gg.

I thought this game was already terrible... I salute, you guys found a way to make it even worse. And with all the great games incoming or already out, you better look into stuff and reverse this newest nonsense ASAP!

Have a good day, I did what I could, rest is up to you.

They didn't nerf ultimate generation, they fixed a bug for several skills that meant you had unlimited ultimate. I still have my ultimate constatantly up as it regenerates just as fast.

They didn't just cut back our stats, before vr14 was end game level, now VR16 is end game level, if they solely made VR16 that much more powerful then it would have been overpowered.

The icons were updated, actually they are all the ones on pc already if I'm not mistaken?

If you thought the game was terrible why play? That must be the most idiotic statement I hear thrown around the forums.

MrGrimey

I really don't like this DLC and patch, but most of the OPs complaints are silly and not the real problem with IC

Slonekb05

waste of words

DaniAngione

I love how people come to forums to say things like "I'm the lord of reason! Look how all changes are bad because I think they're bad! Change the multi-thousand dollar process that was the creation, update, upload and hosting of such an endeavour back to please me for I AM THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE!"

DaveMoeDee

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I thought this game was already terrible...

So, why are you here?

Auricle

Sigh. The only reason I'd want to roll back time is to get rid of all these 'Roll Back IC' threads...

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- bugs, lots of them, even guild banks are bugged

True, the bugs are mildly annoying, but if you've ever played an MMO before, you know this is not a new thing when fresh content is released. Be patient. It's not like the game is unplayable.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- very questionable balancing decisions (Flame Clench, gg)

Honestly, and this is coming from someone with a sad mag dk, the classes are the most balanced they've ever been. Stamina and magicka builds are both viable now and armor types are getting closer to being equal in terms of usability. It's a process, and if you don't enjoy change, MMOs are perhaps not the right genre for you.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- PvP is DEAD!

Really? I would've gone to the funeral, but I was too busy fighting other players.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- the terrible new marvel-comic skill pictures... are you hiring artists from elementary school now, ZOS?

While this is a matter of your opinion, ESO's art team is bloody amazing and deserve more respect than that.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- cutting our regeneration, damage and ultimate while buffing enemies' damage... holy, whose great idea was that?

The regen thing was a necessary evil of cutting damage by 50% in PvP. If people could regen their resources like before, then fights would last twice as long and it'd be even more annoying. Personally, I'm thrilled that they buffed enemy damage. Now it's at least a little bit challenging to face down NPCs, especially with the average player having upwards of 100 CP.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

- and of course your master plan to nerf us back to V12 stats, so that we have to grind V16 stuff to just get our old status back... gg, ZOS, gg.

It's a strategy for dealing with Power Creep. It's better for the long term health of the game. That said, the vr16 gear grind is a bit much for sure.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I thought this game was already terrible...

Then why are you still here? Genuinely curious, as I am not one who spends my free time playing games I think are terrible.

Lord-Otto

So, why am I still here? Well, because I spent quite the fortune on the digital version which I just can't turn back in. I know for some people here, the money is no matter, as you don't have anything better to spend it on... But I am definitely mourning over what I could have done with it.
Oh, yes, MMOs are probably not my type. Then again, who even asked for an Elder Scrolls MMO?

You're saying we have PvP in IC... Cool. I'm already fed up with the unbalanced mess that is regular PvP. Surely, I'm not setting foot into Nightblade Gank Squad's paradise. The regular PvP is awfully quiet, with only Azura an exception.

I wonder what all those multi-thousands of dollars are spent on... Or what the PTS is for. You telling me no one used beam attacks in PTS or accessed the guild bank? Sure, bugs can happen, but the scale in ESO for them is atrociously high! It's bad programming, simple.

The old artists were good. The new skill-icon ones aren't. You can't change style for some art, it doesn't fit. You want your comic style, you change every icon or make a new game. There is no discussing this. It's a disrespect for the original artist.

What I don't like about the current balancing is how ZOS are changing things no one asked for. And leave others unaffected. Like, if you see everyone favoring flame staffs, why not buff the other two? No, they HAD to ruin Flame Clench, the one skill that justified a destro staff for me in PvP. And Wrecking Blow, that you see all over the place? Instead of nerfing that and making cleave better, nope - it stays. At some point, Zenimax should really decide whether they are approaching things seriously or make this into one Super-FOTM-Game.

And this is also something for the skillZboyZ out here:
You think the game was too easy? Use green gear, then. Use V12 gear. Use V6 gear. If you want a challenge, SEEK IT.
As of now, all you do, is brag. "Difficult" content you encounter with masses, overpowered skills and gear. Effectively nullifying the difficulty. And then brag, gg.
People who'd like to enjoy the environment and don't wanna join the arms race are being treated secondly here. Why?

Elektrakosh

Before the Base Patch horror came to console I was having a bad time with mobs due to having to use light armour for magical regen/ so-called bonuses etc. I'm certainly not skilled and became a very casual player due to such hiccups like animation being stuck and your character being stomped on because they couldn't swing a weapon/ use any sort of ability and the occasional disappearing NPC. I liked the game despite this and it was one of those that I could go back to.

Now that it has landed, let's just say that so called buff to light armour is pointless. I can get taken down by lightning bugs even with my summons. RNG has always been bad in this game even before said patch but has been particularly cruel to my character through my gaming time. Crafting has been put on hold because of it. Thieving has been impossible for me also despite going in with the detection eye closed as I come out of lockpicking/ mid steal I'm automatically detected. Sure, I'm a bright white vampire argonian mage but I was behind crates for crying out loud! How do guards see through crates? I want the ability to do the same.

I'll be checking the patch notes from time to time in a vain hope that things could get better and inspire me to play again. Crown store items are not the way to my heart. They cost too much and are short lived.

They should have implemented a difficulty setting in the game before V ranks so at least it could cater for those who love a challenge or just want to suck up the storyline and lore. Nope, make things harder just because.

I suck at MMOs and I'm proud! Take that, you lot!
Anyway this game is shelved for now. If I wanted to do chores, I'll go tidy the house.

Titansteele

*searches for the "lol" button*

Dammit!

leepalmer95

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, why am I still here? Well, because I spent quite the fortune on the digital version which I just can't turn back in. I know for some people here, the money is no matter, as you don't have anything better to spend it on... But I am definitely mourning over what I could have done with it.
Oh, yes, MMOs are probably not my type. Then again, who even asked for an Elder Scrolls MMO?

You're saying we have PvP in IC... Cool. I'm already fed up with the unbalanced mess that is regular PvP. Surely, I'm not setting foot into Nightblade Gank Squad's paradise. The regular PvP is awfully quiet, with only Azura an exception.

I wonder what all those multi-thousands of dollars are spent on... Or what the PTS is for. You telling me no one used beam attacks in PTS or accessed the guild bank? Sure, bugs can happen, but the scale in ESO for them is atrociously high! It's bad programming, simple.

The old artists were good. The new skill-icon ones aren't. You can't change style for some art, it doesn't fit. You want your comic style, you change every icon or make a new game. There is no discussing this. It's a disrespect for the original artist.

What I don't like about the current balancing is how ZOS are changing things no one asked for. And leave others unaffected. Like, if you see everyone favoring flame staffs, why not buff the other two? No, they HAD to ruin Flame Clench, the one skill that justified a destro staff for me in PvP. And Wrecking Blow, that you see all over the place? Instead of nerfing that and making cleave better, nope - it stays. At some point, Zenimax should really decide whether they are approaching things seriously or make this into one Super-FOTM-Game.

And this is also something for the skillZboyZ out here:
You think the game was too easy? Use green gear, then. Use V12 gear. Use V6 gear. If you want a challenge, SEEK IT.
As of now, all you do, is brag. "Difficult" content you encounter with masses, overpowered skills and gear. Effectively nullifying the difficulty. And then brag, gg.
People who'd like to enjoy the environment and don't wanna join the arms race are being treated secondly here. Why?

So your complaining pve is too hard, thats new.

Pve outside of IC is still insanely easy. Only in IC do you actually have to try.

Asmael

The OP dislikes IC for its own reasons, however bad, but...

While I like some changes ("Stack all" button, AP pots /drinks / food, the feeling of IC, multiple fixes), I hated some of those when we finally got our final patch notes. Didn't hate some that much after testing it (e.g. the stamina nerf while blocking isn't "as bad" as I thought, but that's because they tweaked it a bit).

I'm, overall, rather disappointed by this patch, even if you ignore the bugs and suppose they're all fixed, they really have a weird way to fix the PvP balance, be it by the increased vet rank, the crazy grind for VR16 gear, the major buff to zergs, band-aid fixes ("perma-dodge rollers? Nerf dodge roll for EVERYONE!") and else.

There's too much nerf-bat in there, and never a "let's buff X up a bit so that it actually becomes a viable counter to Y". I'd like to be able to "play as I want", but that'd be gimping myself, so I instead stick to pretty standard builds, with maybe a variation here and there, but that's about it.

Was it too hard to try and give a counter to dodge rolling to all classes, instead of nerfing dodge rolling? Was it too hard to give a counter to permablocking to all classes? (hint: they already exist, so perhaps buff them?)

Why do we have a shield breaker set that's technically only useful for VR14+? This is another band-aid to the "shield stacking" issue that once again creates more problems than it solves.

I could start on the state of Blackwater Blade (non-vet campaign), but I prefer to keep it polite, so I won't. I'll only comment by saying that my guild has basically left it "until it is fixed".

Francescolg

Hello Lord-Otto, you mentioned Flame Clench! Can you explain me, what was done to Flame Clench?
Thanks and have a good day!

Lord-Otto

Francescolg wrote: »

Hello Lord-Otto, you mentioned Flame Clench! Can you explain me, what was done to Flame Clench?
Thanks and have a good day!

Sure!
Flame Clench used to knock back and stun targets. It also hits for a moderate impact damage and adds an okay DoT. It even gets a boost from the master inferno staff.
Now, the stun has been removed. It still knocks back people for a lousy 4 meters, but the stun was way more useful. It did receive a slight bonus to DoT, apparently, but a really small one.