Siphoning Attacks/Soul Tether nerf, the nail in the coffin for NB tanks.

jebuspowers

Let me explain the difference between what siphoning attacks used to do and what it does now. The older version gave you back 3% mag/stam for all attacks with a chance of recovering 15%.

New version: recover y amount for each basic attack with a 10% chance to recover (Y x 2) with non basic attacks.

What's the difference? First off, you no longer get at least a little resources back no matter how you attack. The only guarantee is basic attacks. Abilities only give you a chance now. Also, the amount given is based on levela nd not your resource pool. This means you don't earn more resources, proportionally, after bonuses with food etc. Lastly, prior to the patch you were earning back a guaranteed 3% with a chance of 15% which means that you had a chance of recovering 5x the standard rate of return. Now the chance is about the sane but only double the standard rate of return.

The only upside to the new version is there is no longer a 20% damage reduction on you. BFD

Guess what else? Now that it is no longer a toggle ability it lasts for 15 seconds. That wouldn't be so bad if I could have a timer showing me when my buffs and debuffs were ending. The only way you can tell is when your weapons stop glowing red which is very noticeable during a fight (sarcasm).

So because of *** pvp mechanics (permablocking) pve gets boned.

It's no secret that DK'S have great survivability, Templars make the best healers, and Sorcerers have (arguably) the most versatility. Nightblades had resources as their main advantage and now that is gone. I'm not saying nerf the other classes, nor am I saying buff nightblades. I'm saying now there is not really any reason to play as a Nightblade tank, which is the only thing I have played since console launch. This on top of this game not being tank friendly to begin with and it being even harder to be an efficient tank as any class after the Imperial City update.

GreenSoup2HoT

Throw down caltrops. Pop siponing attacks. Pop Evil hunter. Profit?

Kupoking

Sure dont roll NB tanks everyone. I wanna be unique tanking with my own NB.

jebuspowers

In that case I would be better off as dps. Plus I heard that evil hunter no longer procs with caltrops like it used to and from what I can tell you only gain resource on use and not damage dealt.

Zavus

It's not that bad tbh, I have two NB tanks and both do pretty good in PvE. I use siphoning strikes to manage my stamina, and I always end up running out of magicka long before I run out of stam. I'm also constantly spamming funnel health as I tank though.

Kupoking

Zavus wrote: »

It's not that bad tbh, I have two NB tanks and both do pretty good in PvE. I use siphoning strikes to manage my stamina, and I always end up running out of magicka long before I run out of stam. I'm also constantly spamming funnel health as I tank though.

What? Meth has two NBs?

Shunravi

I'm going to be one of 'those guys' in a bit here, but let me preface this by saying that I really disapprove of the nerf.

Using siphoning attacks, I and the other NB tanks in my guilds are having no problems keeping resources up. Just time your blocks for the big hits (blegh) and use some abilities like swallow soul.

GreenSoup2HoT

jebuspowers wrote: »

In that case I would be better off as dps. Plus I heard that evil hunter no longer procs with caltrops like it used to and from what I can tell you only gain resource on use and not damage dealt.

Caltrops still proc's evil hunter, its okay with all the daedra (15% chance per tick). Same with siphoning attack (10% per tick). They have internal cooldowns though, 2.5 second's. However the resources are still very good.

If enough people stand in it you can perma block easy.

jebuspowers

I'm sure I can still do well in pve. It's just that there is such a noticeable drop off in return and that was the only good thing about being a Nightblade tank vs the other classes as tank.

Blackjak-33

I agree Jebus, I cannot for the life of me tell when SA ends now in the heat of a fight. It seems like it doesn't even last the full 15 sec. I know it has a distinct sound when it ends, but I can't hear it over casting my other attacks. Red glow on weapons is noticeable out of combat, but when I'm constantly siphoning health my body constantly glows red which covers everything else. Can they AT LEAST make it a 30sec tick like Blur?

I will say, using 5 Twilight's Embrace and 4 Seducer and stacking swallow soul with Twilight's along with CP in healing received I can totally out heal with barely having to block. Dropping Path and I just run around in and out dodging attacks like Carl Lewis on crack lol. I recently changed from the Mage mundus to the Ritual for another 10% healing received, but haven't tried it long enough to see if it's worth losing the magicka from the Mage. With magicka/stam Regen drink added to the Seducer stats, my magicka regen is ridiculous, even though my stamina regen took a crucial hit from the stupid passive change.

Blackjak-33

And I'm nowhere close to being able to unlock caltrops, but even if I was, the stamina cost of that ability would kill me by itself.

jebuspowers

Yeah caltrops is crazy expensive. I also just noticed that SA now has a cost.

GreenSoup2HoT

The only reason i can pull off that combo is because i use 5 piece shadowwalker and i can cloak a couple times to regen full.

jebuspowers

Anyone ever try stacking leeching strikes, force siphon, ritual stone, degeneration (entropy morph), imperial passive, 5 pc twilight's embrace, swallow soul, and steal health weapons? I feel like you would be practically unkillable as a tank with all of that going on.

GreenSoup2HoT

@jebuspowers i feel an orc with that heavy set that increases hp regen by 30% would be unkillable. stack so much hp regen you will regen any damage you take.

Blackjak-33

I will use Degeneration after I level up other skills. I have it for dungeon crawling. I use magicka stealing weapons because the healing received with all the perks I mentioned earlier never ends because I rarely run out of magicka. I think my healing received bonus is sitting at around 35-38% with Twilight's, the Ritual stone, Swallow Soul, healing passives from heavy or s/b (can't remember which has the bonus) and CP in healing received.

I might try vampire for the regen passives there and also use drain essence(?) from that skill line.

But seriously, throw down refreshing path, which you probably do, and you can just outrun the heavy enemy attacks without even needing to block them. And i don't mean literally running away like a punk, but weaving around the battlefield lol.

SturgeHammer

jebuspowers wrote: »

What's the difference? First off, you no longer get at least a little resources back no matter how you attack. The only guarantee is basic attacks. Abilities only give you a chance now.

Are you sure about this part? I think the small % restore has always been for basic attacks only. The only combat text I have enabled for my NB tank is to show magicka/stamina returns so that I know when this ability triggers and to the best of my knowledge spells (sap, path, anything really) only had a chance to proc the large % restore.

I complained a lot about the SA changes during this during PTS, but I now find it quite serviceable mostly because of the slot it freed up on my bar.

ExaltedNade

SturgeHammer wrote: »

jebuspowers wrote: »

What's the difference? First off, you no longer get at least a little resources back no matter how you attack. The only guarantee is basic attacks. Abilities only give you a chance now.

Are you sure about this part? I think the small % restore has always been for basic attacks only. The only combat text I have enabled for my NB tank is to show magicka/stamina returns so that I know when this ability triggers and to the best of my knowledge spells (sap, path, anything really) only had a chance to proc the large % restore.

I complained a lot about the SA changes during this during PTS, but I now find it quite serviceable mostly because of the slot it freed up on my bar.

The guaranteed 3% was for LA/HA only, yes, with the 15% regain being applied to any attack.
Now it's something like 950-ish M/S at v15 per LA/HA, and a 10% chance to gain extra resources, which is double the first number, so it's 3x the normal amount if the 10% procs on LA/HA.

Overall, it's really meant to help those manage lower resource pools, since it scales by level, and not an individual pool.
All in all, the low end got higher, and the high end got lower, I guess you could say.

GreenSoup2HoT

ExaltedNade wrote: »

SturgeHammer wrote: »

jebuspowers wrote: »

What's the difference? First off, you no longer get at least a little resources back no matter how you attack. The only guarantee is basic attacks. Abilities only give you a chance now.

Are you sure about this part? I think the small % restore has always been for basic attacks only. The only combat text I have enabled for my NB tank is to show magicka/stamina returns so that I know when this ability triggers and to the best of my knowledge spells (sap, path, anything really) only had a chance to proc the large % restore.

I complained a lot about the SA changes during this during PTS, but I now find it quite serviceable mostly because of the slot it freed up on my bar.

The guaranteed 3% was for LA/HA only, yes, with the 15% regain being applied to any attack.
Now it's something like 950-ish M/S at v15 per LA/HA, and a 10% chance to gain extra resources, which is double the first number, so it's 3x the normal amount if the 10% procs on LA/HA.

Overall, it's really meant to help those manage lower resource pools, since it scales by level, and not an individual pool.
All in all, the low end got higher, and the high end got lower, I guess you could say.

Yeah i see what you saying.

As my stam nb. I got 15% of 30k (4500) and now its 2000.

So siphoning attacks actually really helps players who have low magicka or stamina pools (for the 10% chance proc that is) more so then people who run food like me.

If i used a drink i would only get 8k max magicka which in 1.6 gives me only 1200 and now its 2000.

So exactly what you said. Low resource/high regen players are better off now, conpared to people who use food.

I probably wont use it now because of that. Im inperial so food and max stat for me is the way to go. I got shadowwalker for regen (purge to if im ever marked).

13igTyme

Blackjak-33 wrote: »

I will use Degeneration after I level up other skills. I have it for dungeon crawling. I use magicka stealing weapons because the healing received with all the perks I mentioned earlier never ends because I rarely run out of magicka. I think my healing received bonus is sitting at around 35-38% with Twilight's, the Ritual stone, Swallow Soul, healing passives from heavy or s/b (can't remember which has the bonus) and CP in healing received.

I might try vampire for the regen passives there and also use drain essence(?) from that skill line.

But seriously, throw down refreshing path, which you probably do, and you can just outrun the heavy enemy attacks without even needing to block them. And i don't mean literally running away like a punk, but weaving around the battlefield lol.

I feel like that would be the only reason to go Argonian.

Blackjak-33

13igTyme wrote: »

Blackjak-33 wrote: »

I will use Degeneration after I level up other skills. I have it for dungeon crawling. I use magicka stealing weapons because the healing received with all the perks I mentioned earlier never ends because I rarely run out of magicka. I think my healing received bonus is sitting at around 35-38% with Twilight's, the Ritual stone, Swallow Soul, healing passives from heavy or s/b (can't remember which has the bonus) and CP in healing received.

I might try vampire for the regen passives there and also use drain essence(?) from that skill line.

But seriously, throw down refreshing path, which you probably do, and you can just outrun the heavy enemy attacks without even needing to block them. And i don't mean literally running away like a punk, but weaving around the battlefield lol.

I feel like that would be the only reason to go Argonian.

I'm actually Redguard for the stamina perks. I don't have much besides race and two rings invested in stamina, that's why when they changed the NB 30% stamina regen passive to 15% it hurt me a bit lol.

Blackjak-33

That and the WW free stam Regen passive being removed, but I can't really complain about that.

13igTyme

Blackjak-33 wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Blackjak-33 wrote: »

I will use Degeneration after I level up other skills. I have it for dungeon crawling. I use magicka stealing weapons because the healing received with all the perks I mentioned earlier never ends because I rarely run out of magicka. I think my healing received bonus is sitting at around 35-38% with Twilight's, the Ritual stone, Swallow Soul, healing passives from heavy or s/b (can't remember which has the bonus) and CP in healing received.

I might try vampire for the regen passives there and also use drain essence(?) from that skill line.

But seriously, throw down refreshing path, which you probably do, and you can just outrun the heavy enemy attacks without even needing to block them. And i don't mean literally running away like a punk, but weaving around the battlefield lol.

I feel like that would be the only reason to go Argonian.

I'm actually Redguard for the stamina perks. I don't have much besides race and two rings invested in stamina, that's why when they changed the NB 30% stamina regen passive to 15% it hurt me a bit lol.

I was more or less making a comment about how annoyed I am at argonian passives.

jebuspowers

SturgeHammer wrote: »

jebuspowers wrote: »

What's the difference? First off, you no longer get at least a little resources back no matter how you attack. The only guarantee is basic attacks. Abilities only give you a chance now.

Are you sure about this part? I think the small % restore has always been for basic attacks only. The only combat text I have enabled for my NB tank is to show magicka/stamina returns so that I know when this ability triggers and to the best of my knowledge spells (sap, path, anything really) only had a chance to proc the large % restore.

I complained a lot about the SA changes during this during PTS, but I now find it quite serviceable mostly because of the slot it freed up on my bar.

Before the change any attack had 3% guaranteed and a chance for 15%. Now it is split up. It certainly does not feel comparable to how it used to be.

Blackjak-33

13igTyme wrote: »

Blackjak-33 wrote: »

13igTyme wrote: »

Blackjak-33 wrote: »

I will use Degeneration after I level up other skills. I have it for dungeon crawling. I use magicka stealing weapons because the healing received with all the perks I mentioned earlier never ends because I rarely run out of magicka. I think my healing received bonus is sitting at around 35-38% with Twilight's, the Ritual stone, Swallow Soul, healing passives from heavy or s/b (can't remember which has the bonus) and CP in healing received.

I might try vampire for the regen passives there and also use drain essence(?) from that skill line.

But seriously, throw down refreshing path, which you probably do, and you can just outrun the heavy enemy attacks without even needing to block them. And i don't mean literally running away like a punk, but weaving around the battlefield lol.

I feel like that would be the only reason to go Argonian.

I'm actually Redguard for the stamina perks. I don't have much besides race and two rings invested in stamina, that's why when they changed the NB 30% stamina regen passive to 15% it hurt me a bit lol.

I was more or less making a comment about how annoyed I am at argonian passives.

Haha...oh. ..right, my bad that is true.

jebuspowers

I just tried darkshade with my normal group. Never had a problem with it before. But for some reason my resource bars won't stay up and the taunt doesn't work.

GreenSoup2HoT

@jebuspowers darkshade does not proc siphoning attacks. Only on initial cast.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@jebuspowers darkshade does not proc siphoning attacks. Only on initial cast.

...but they do proc The restro staff siphon power 1% magic return for every hit using dark shades that's 2% per second plus what ever you do it's beautiful.

jebuspowers wrote: »

Anyone ever try stacking leeching strikes, force siphon, ritual stone, degeneration (entropy morph), imperial passive, 5 pc twilight's embrace, swallow soul, and steal health weapons? I feel like you would be practically unkillable as a tank with all of that going on.

No just no Leeching sucks even more now with the debuff and it only procs from basic attacks you can take Siphoning Attack and any heal and do much better don't gimp yourself man.

jebuspowers

Yeah, just a thought. leeching does suck

Jovaras

Yes, they should increase the gained value, because unless you have huge amount of champion points, resource management is really bad. NB tanks are left with nothing compared to other classes.

jebuspowers

It honestly was fine the way it was. You can still tank as a Nightblade, but you won't be as effective as you used to be nor will it be seriously worth your time. This kind of sucks considering they set up the game to where you should be able to play any role with any class, but they just locked Nightblade into dps only.