The reason why % incr to health from abilities are bad and unwanted, ZOS listen.

olsborg

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Valrien

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

olsborg

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

UltimaJoe777

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

olsborg

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_RichLambert

The OP brings up a point that many people have been silent about for a long time.

You want tanks to do more? Then let them switch bars without being extremely punished for it.

We shouldn't be losing health from our shield enchant, entropy, or the armor master bonus, just because we swap weapons.

Additionally, I'm sick an tired of getting 1 shot due to switching weapons. Blocking continuously due to not wanting to suffer a large attack is real and getting 1 shot on a bar switch reinforces tanks doing less rather than more.

Please work on an option that lets players switch their skills without swapping their weapons. Please work on an option that doesn't cause slotted abilities passive effects to momentarily disappear due to bar swapping.

Personofsecrets

OP, you get 9001 awesomes for bringing this issue to light.

UltimaJoe777

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to slot it on both bars lol

Personofsecrets

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to lol

Do you tank?

UltimaJoe777

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to lol

Do you tank?

I have alts for just about everything so short answer yes.

olsborg

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to slot it on both bars lol

Then explain to me, how you would go about doing this:

You have a build ready, you have 1 slot free, and think "boy, that structured entropy will be great, I get 8% extra health"

Then you realize, "bollocks, I loose that 8% health as soon as I switch my weapon, ah well"

Why would I still slot it? Without changing my whole build effectively starting on scratch again. This...is the point of this thread.

Personofsecrets

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to lol

Do you tank?

I have alts for just about everything so short answer yes.

Let's pretend that the developers made it so that your tank kept health from entropy, armor master, and their shield enchantment when switching weapons. Let's pretend that this is all because you helped support the developers looking into such a mechanical change.

Do you think your tank toon would thank you or be upset?

Tors

Its a choice in an ability, you take the good with the bad.

If you really find it such an issue, don't use abilities or weapons that have this problem.

FluffyMeowington

Loose is the opposite of tight. Don't be a losser.

Personofsecrets

Tors wrote: »

Its a choice in an ability, you take the good with the bad.

If you really find it such an issue, don't use abilities or weapons that have this problem.

This is a choice in thread creation. The OP is calling out a game design flaw.

UltimaJoe777

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to slot it on both bars lol

Then explain to me, how you would go about doing this:

You have a build ready, you have 1 slot free, and think "boy, that structured entropy will be great, I get 8% extra health"

Then you realize, "bollocks, I loose that 8% health as soon as I switch my weapon, ah well"

Why would I still slot it? Without changing my whole build effectively starting on scratch again. This...is the point of this thread.

If you can utilize that 8% health by having that skill bar up when you need the extra health and your other bar used when you don't or have taken that 8% damage already then it isn't really an issue. Personally though I go with Degeneration lol

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to lol

Do you tank?

I have alts for just about everything so short answer yes.

Let's pretend that the developers made it so that your tank kept health from entropy, armor master, and their shield enchantment when switching weapons. Let's pretend that this is all because you helped support the developers looking into such a mechanical change.

Do you think your tank toon would thank you or be upset?

Honestly my tank doesn't have that issue because he isn't using any of that lol but if he was the boosts would indeed benefit him because he is an all-Health build.

Personofsecrets

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to slot it on both bars lol

Then explain to me, how you would go about doing this:

You have a build ready, you have 1 slot free, and think "boy, that structured entropy will be great, I get 8% extra health"

Then you realize, "bollocks, I loose that 8% health as soon as I switch my weapon, ah well"

Why would I still slot it? Without changing my whole build effectively starting on scratch again. This...is the point of this thread.

If you can utilize that 8% health by having that skill bar up when you need the extra health and your other bar used when you don't or have taken that 8% damage already then it isn't really an issue. Personally though I go with Degeneration lol

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Is because, whenever you switch weapons and you only have that ability slotted on one bar (why would you have it on both bars anyway?) you loose the health/stat boost. This goes for the Entropy morph or the nightblade passive in siphoning and all those things. Why cant you make it count for your characters build, not just that one hotbar?

Because it makes things more challenging. You have to make all the puzzle pieces fit, so to speak. Besides, you don't have to have the same armor ability on both bars. Try it on just your main bar, or have 1 of the 3 on each bar. So Bar 1 = Unstoppable, Bar 2 = Shuffle.

Well yea, but its beside the point. The principle is still the same. Lets take structured entropy as an example. It gives 8% max health increase when its slotted. As soon as you switch weapon you loose that 8% health, if you then switch quickly back, youre lacking that last 8% health and have to regen or heal it back up, effectively making it basicly useless.

You just have to utilize it better then. Anything can be made to work for you or against you depending on how you see and use it.

you cant talk your way out of having to slot it on both bars mate, you just cant.

Never said you had to lol

Do you tank?

I have alts for just about everything so short answer yes.

Let's pretend that the developers made it so that your tank kept health from entropy, armor master, and their shield enchantment when switching weapons. Let's pretend that this is all because you helped support the developers looking into such a mechanical change.

Do you think your tank toon would thank you or be upset?

Honestly my tank doesn't have that issue because he isn't using any of that lol but if he was the boosts would indeed benefit him because he is an all-Health build.

What do you know, my tank, Lord Thornos, used to also be an all health build. As I have played more, LT has began to use less health in order to be extra versatile. Your tank may do the same, maybe not, but either way both of our tanks could benefit from a small tweak to how bar swapping works.

Obviously, until such a tweak is made, our tanks will adapt, but Lord Thornos has been confused for a long time as to why he has to switch his mace and shield of Histbark to another identical mace and Shield of Histbark in order to use his secondary skills. He is even more confused as to why he feels a great pain (loss of health) immediately upon switching weapons.

If ever a mechanic adjustment is up for serious consideration, Lord Thornos and I hope to have yourself and your tanks support in making sure that such an adjustment happens.

olsborg

If you can utilize that 8% health by having that skill bar up when you need the extra health and your other bar used when you don't

I bolded the part that stood out. You dont ever not need that 8% health if you decide to add it to your bar. You want it there to be a part of your build, not if and when you need it, if it vanishes here and there (in pvp you wep swap atleast once every 5 sec) you might aswell slot something else, and that is my point.

UltimaJoe777

olsborg wrote: »

If you can utilize that 8% health by having that skill bar up when you need the extra health and your other bar used when you don't

I bolded the part that stood out. You dont ever not need that 8% health if you decide to add it to your bar. You want it there to be a part of your build, not if and when you need it, if it vanishes here and there (in pvp you wep swap atleast once every 5 sec) you might aswell slot something else, and that is my point.

Well that is your decision to make but some others may think differently. Diversity in builds makes for truly interesting gameplay, after all. Nobody likes seeing cookie cutter builds all over the place because that is just boring.

Short version: What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

Personofsecrets

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

If you can utilize that 8% health by having that skill bar up when you need the extra health and your other bar used when you don't

I bolded the part that stood out. You dont ever not need that 8% health if you decide to add it to your bar. You want it there to be a part of your build, not if and when you need it, if it vanishes here and there (in pvp you wep swap atleast once every 5 sec) you might aswell slot something else, and that is my point.

Well that is your decision to make but some others may think differently. Diversity in builds makes for truly interesting gameplay, after all. Nobody likes seeing cookie cutter builds all over the place because that is just boring.

Short version: What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

I like cookie cutter builds some times. Some of my favorite past times involved playing a specific Yugioh format where everyone used close to the same deck. Everyone new what to expect and that helped remove one of the 'luck' factors from the competitive scene.

UltimaJoe777

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

If you can utilize that 8% health by having that skill bar up when you need the extra health and your other bar used when you don't

I bolded the part that stood out. You dont ever not need that 8% health if you decide to add it to your bar. You want it there to be a part of your build, not if and when you need it, if it vanishes here and there (in pvp you wep swap atleast once every 5 sec) you might aswell slot something else, and that is my point.

Well that is your decision to make but some others may think differently. Diversity in builds makes for truly interesting gameplay, after all. Nobody likes seeing cookie cutter builds all over the place because that is just boring.

Short version: What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

I like cookie cutter builds some times. Some of my favorite past times involved playing a specific Yugioh format where everyone used close to the same deck. Everyone new what to expect and that helped remove one of the 'luck' factors from the competitive scene.

Not really how I'd define "Luck" but more power to ya lol

Tors

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tors wrote: »

Its a choice in an ability, you take the good with the bad.

If you really find it such an issue, don't use abilities or weapons that have this problem.

This is a choice in thread creation. The OP is calling out a game design flaw.

How is this a flaw?

It's a mechanic built into an ability you need to take account of.

Deal with it, most other players seem to be able to handle this without crying to mummy

Personofsecrets

Tors wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tors wrote: »

Its a choice in an ability, you take the good with the bad.

If you really find it such an issue, don't use abilities or weapons that have this problem.

This is a choice in thread creation. The OP is calling out a game design flaw.

How is this a flaw?

It's a mechanic built into an ability you need to take account of.

Deal with it, most other players seem to be able to handle this without crying to mummy

We are dealing with it by helping the developers recognize a design flaw. Oh, that's right, I forgot that players weren't supposed to give their feedback to the developers. I'll stop now. Thank you for showing me the way.

Personofsecrets

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

If you can utilize that 8% health by having that skill bar up when you need the extra health and your other bar used when you don't

I bolded the part that stood out. You dont ever not need that 8% health if you decide to add it to your bar. You want it there to be a part of your build, not if and when you need it, if it vanishes here and there (in pvp you wep swap atleast once every 5 sec) you might aswell slot something else, and that is my point.

Well that is your decision to make but some others may think differently. Diversity in builds makes for truly interesting gameplay, after all. Nobody likes seeing cookie cutter builds all over the place because that is just boring.

Short version: What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

I like cookie cutter builds some times. Some of my favorite past times involved playing a specific Yugioh format where everyone used close to the same deck. Everyone new what to expect and that helped remove one of the 'luck' factors from the competitive scene.

Not really how I'd define "Luck" but more power to ya lol

Well, one of the luck factors was match up. If everyone is using the same deck, then that match up factor is eliminated. Note, not free of luck, but with less.

Asmael

All hail Degeneration over Structured Entropy. Funny thing is, if you're using Structured Entropy (or this set with 5 pieces on 1 bar alone for that matter), then switch to the other bar, you're increasing your % HP, sometimes, if you're low on health, allowing you to bring you outside execute range.

Works both ways tho, and that's hardly a reliable mechanic.