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champion point caps and catchup mechanics needed ASAP, uncapped CP is wrecking ESO
ewhite106b16_ESO
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The current system of uncapped champion point progression is ruining ESO and functionally has none of the checks and balances originally mentioned. Breaking down problems by area:
Lack of Diminishing Returns: Diminishing returns don't help balance low CP vs high CP characters because the impact of diminishing returns per point spent only applies within a given star. After a player puts 100 points into Mooncalf and gets ~25% more stamina regen, they can still put 100 points into another star sign and get full returns. True/meaningful diminishing returns would globally reduce the impact of invested CP eg. Put 100 points into mooncalf, get 25% regen - invest another 100 CP into arcanist and global diminishing returns would mean a benefit of say 20% regen bonus vs a possible 25% under the existing system.
The lack of true diminishing returns is worsened by the fact that most star signs are useful to any build.
Champion points give too much power: Champion points can't IMO be called "horizontal character advancement" or "alternate progression" when the benefits for maxing a given star sign are so large. 25% extra stam/magicka regen for example is a HUGE bonus, a character with 400-500 points can have a bunch of big 15%-25% bonuses in different areas. The problem is exacerbated by huge gaps in XP returns from different activities (more on that later). PVP isn't remotely balanced putting characters with 150 CP or less vs chars with 300+, nevermind raw vr 14 newbies. Likewise, the extreame power disparitiy caused by CP also makes balancing PVE content near impossible and makes PVE leaderboards rather meaningless. IMO CP for all intents and purposes are vertical advancement without a meaningful cap, way worse then increasing vetran levels every few months.
AOE grinding is overwhelmingly the best way to get CP: The XP system rewards mindless grinding overwhelmingly compared to any sort of skilled play, good AOE grind can yield 2-3 CP per hour without enlightenment. Playing the game normally ie running dungeons, pvping, adventuring....in my experience this gives 1-2 CP per DAY. Enlightenment at 1 point per day doesn't really help at all when it comes to keeping up with the AOE grind farmers. Players can't stay "competitive" in ESO by actually playing the game....they need to AOE grind for hours at a time. I enjoy PVP myself, but XP returns in PVP are nowhwere near enough to stay competitive with the AOE grinders. Finding every spot where AOE farmers grind huge amounts of XP doesn't seem possible.
I actually enjoy Imperial City, but I uninstalled the game when I realized there was no way I could remain competitive in PVP without spending hours mindlessly AOE farming mobs to get more champion points. Even then, I'd still loose to others who had more time and inclination for mindless grinding. With vetran levels, the xp grind had a cap that lasted until more vetran levels were added, the grinders didn't have an overwhelming advantage. Champion Points right now don't have any sort of meaningful cap - the power gap between players who AOE farm XP and those who don't just keeps getting worse. Really doesn't feel like player skill has much meaning at all anymore - because champion points are earned by AOE grinding the game feels more like a korean grinder nowadays.
The longer Champion Point caps and meaningful catchup mechanics are delayed, the worse the problem gets. More players realize that they can't remain competitive in PVP, others that burn out on the game trying to keep up with the AOE CP grind. More time wasted by ZOS trying to balance endgame content that can't be balanced properly due to vast CP created power gaps between players. I enjoyed this game for a long time, I think it still has a good deal of potential - but until the champion point issue is dealt with it's a korean grindfest not an elderscrolls game.
Lack of Diminishing Returns: Diminishing returns don't help balance low CP vs high CP characters because the impact of diminishing returns per point spent only applies within a given star. After a player puts 100 points into Mooncalf and gets ~25% more stamina regen, they can still put 100 points into another star sign and get full returns. True/meaningful diminishing returns would globally reduce the impact of invested CP eg. Put 100 points into mooncalf, get 25% regen - invest another 100 CP into arcanist and global diminishing returns would mean a benefit of say 20% regen bonus vs a possible 25% under the existing system.
The lack of true diminishing returns is worsened by the fact that most star signs are useful to any build.
Champion points give too much power: Champion points can't IMO be called "horizontal character advancement" or "alternate progression" when the benefits for maxing a given star sign are so large. 25% extra stam/magicka regen for example is a HUGE bonus, a character with 400-500 points can have a bunch of big 15%-25% bonuses in different areas. The problem is exacerbated by huge gaps in XP returns from different activities (more on that later). PVP isn't remotely balanced putting characters with 150 CP or less vs chars with 300+, nevermind raw vr 14 newbies. Likewise, the extreame power disparitiy caused by CP also makes balancing PVE content near impossible and makes PVE leaderboards rather meaningless. IMO CP for all intents and purposes are vertical advancement without a meaningful cap, way worse then increasing vetran levels every few months.
AOE grinding is overwhelmingly the best way to get CP: The XP system rewards mindless grinding overwhelmingly compared to any sort of skilled play, good AOE grind can yield 2-3 CP per hour without enlightenment. Playing the game normally ie running dungeons, pvping, adventuring....in my experience this gives 1-2 CP per DAY. Enlightenment at 1 point per day doesn't really help at all when it comes to keeping up with the AOE grind farmers. Players can't stay "competitive" in ESO by actually playing the game....they need to AOE grind for hours at a time. I enjoy PVP myself, but XP returns in PVP are nowhwere near enough to stay competitive with the AOE grinders. Finding every spot where AOE farmers grind huge amounts of XP doesn't seem possible.
I actually enjoy Imperial City, but I uninstalled the game when I realized there was no way I could remain competitive in PVP without spending hours mindlessly AOE farming mobs to get more champion points. Even then, I'd still loose to others who had more time and inclination for mindless grinding. With vetran levels, the xp grind had a cap that lasted until more vetran levels were added, the grinders didn't have an overwhelming advantage. Champion Points right now don't have any sort of meaningful cap - the power gap between players who AOE farm XP and those who don't just keeps getting worse. Really doesn't feel like player skill has much meaning at all anymore - because champion points are earned by AOE grinding the game feels more like a korean grinder nowadays.
The longer Champion Point caps and meaningful catchup mechanics are delayed, the worse the problem gets. More players realize that they can't remain competitive in PVP, others that burn out on the game trying to keep up with the AOE CP grind. More time wasted by ZOS trying to balance endgame content that can't be balanced properly due to vast CP created power gaps between players. I enjoyed this game for a long time, I think it still has a good deal of potential - but until the champion point issue is dealt with it's a korean grindfest not an elderscrolls game.
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Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭I also thikn they should do it, from business and population point of view it would make sense, you dont want to scare new players away, instead of encourage them. Its double-edged sword though, you might *** of some loyals and vets.Edited by Sausage on September 15, 2015 4:23AM2 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes yes and moar yes to u sir. But sadly some players have the "u want everything handed to u without work" response to this.(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz1 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ya'll should check out the ESO Live feed from 3 days ago for an answer to this thread.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
terrordactyl1971✭✭✭✭Yes yes and moar yes to u sir. But sadly some players have the "u want everything handed to u without work" response to this.
Exactly, I'd rather have things handed to me on a plate. If I've been at work all day and come home in the evening to play a video game, I want to relax and enjoy myself. I don't want to start work again.
I've already subsidised those who can play all day...through my taxes and the benefits system :-)
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Sureshawt✭✭✭✭terrordactyl1971 wrote: »Yes yes and moar yes to u sir. But sadly some players have the "u want everything handed to u without work" response to this.
Exactly, I'd rather have things handed to me on a plate. If I've been at work all day and come home in the evening to play a video game, I want to relax and enjoy myself. I don't want to start work again.
I've already subsidised those who can play all day...through my taxes and the benefits system :-)
^ This. Sums up my feelings exactly.....LOL!!
According to some plaerys MMOs are work because well this must not have a real job ;)_s
Edited by Sureshawt on September 24, 2015 4:02PM0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭catch up yes caps yes.Edited by Forestd16b14_ESO on November 7, 2015 4:35PM1 -
marinkoteb17_ESOSoul Shriventerrordactyl1971 wrote: »Yes yes and moar yes to u sir. But sadly some players have the "u want everything handed to u without work" response to this.
Exactly, I'd rather have things handed to me on a plate. If I've been at work all day and come home in the evening to play a video game, I want to relax and enjoy myself. I don't want to start work again.
I've already subsidised those who can play all day...through my taxes and the benefits system :-)
There he said it all!
Grinders should be banned, purpose of this game is fun and relax!
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