I've gotta say, I love my stam sorc in this patch.

Cathexis

First time since 1.4 (and I guess sort of 1.5) since I have enjoyed my stam sorc.

Things aren't perfect... Still some glaring problems...BUT they're a hell of a lot more fun than before.

GJ ZoS. Not so much because of the stam sorc changes, but more so for the general systemic changes. After extensive play, its pretty fun.

Cheers ^_^

dsalter

i can add to this, been playing stam since IC hit, now rocking a shield breaker set and ruining peoples day

Nemeliom

It's so refreshing to read a thread where there is no complain. Thanks Cathexis

BalticBlues

dsalter wrote: »

been playing stam since IC hit, now rocking a shield breaker set and ruining peoples day

Indeed, all crippled Magicka Sorcs now should consider switching to a Stamina Sorc.
Playing a Shield Breaker predator feels certainly better than being a Shield Breaker victim.

Magicka Sorcs, RIP.
Shields of all classes, RIP.
Total game balance, RIP.

Kronuxx

BalticBlues wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

been playing stam since IC hit, now rocking a shield breaker set and ruining peoples day

Indeed, all crippled Magicka Sorcs now should consider switching to a Stamina Sorc.
Playing a Shield Breaker predator feels certainly better than being a Shield Breaker victim.

Magicka Sorcs, RIP.
Shields of all classes, RIP.
Total game balance, RIP.

This is not true, magicka sorc are just as powerful, if not more so. There are so many CP passives which augment our abilities. I seriously could write a long winded post to explain it all, but I will just direct you to this wonderful thread that a very intelligent OP had put up with math to support the skills/cp points/weapons to use and their underlying mechanics. If you have the time please peruse the post. Unfortunately ESO forums get inundated with threads of people complaining and whining, that threads like the one I'm about to link get lost with all the crap above it. I mean, to be honest sometimes I don't blame the majority of people whining, only because ZOS does not make understanding the underlying mechanics of the game easy to understand. In fact, it seems as if they try to deter one from understanding such mechanics perhaps for fear of calling them out on their blunders (which people do anyway).

Suffice it to say, understand (or glean some information) the underlying mechanics/math for this game and that will put you on top compared to anyone else who doesn't know the math. The math will provide you with the knowledge in utilizing appropriate equipment, Champion passives, skill points, etc. Of course, experience in PvP is something that you can't read or gain from math, but that's a whole different ball game.

Anway here it is for anyone who is interested: forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209938/pts-2-1-2-sorcerer-arithmagic/p1

Alucardo

Interested to see what kind of build you're running. My very first character was a stam sorc. I got to VR3 before I realised I wasn't really utilising the sorc abilities, except surge. So he's my glorified crafter now.

BalticBlues

Kronuxx wrote: »

ESO forums get inundated with threads of people complaining and whining [...] math will provide you with the knowledge in utilizing appropriate equipment, Champion passives, skill points, etc[/url]

Apart from offending people about "whining", you are also requesting people to take math lessons to find enjoyment in the game again? Sorry, but most people just want to have fun in a game, no matter if with hundreds of CPs or without any of them. Instead of requiring people to study mathematics, the devs should finally introduce some balance in the game.

On consoles, former PC players with hundreds of CPs already smoke up console newbies. And now they even introduce a set that not only destroys the primary protection Magicka Sorcs have but even inverts their shields into damage magnets. Maybe V14 players can study mathematics to cope with this, but once we will see V1 freshmen without any CPs going for PVP getting toasted by Shield Breakers, this will create a toxic environment.

Do you really not know what average people say about TESO?
"Great game, but new players do not have any chance in PVP".

I know way too may people quitting ESO after they defeated Molag Bal.
Because after they are done with questing, PVP brings them more frustration than fun.

With this reputation and the constant flow of imbalances (CPs, SBs, endless cloaking)
it is getting extremely hard to bring new players into the game...

Digiman

Kronuxx wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

been playing stam since IC hit, now rocking a shield breaker set and ruining peoples day

Indeed, all crippled Magicka Sorcs now should consider switching to a Stamina Sorc.
Playing a Shield Breaker predator feels certainly better than being a Shield Breaker victim.

Magicka Sorcs, RIP.
Shields of all classes, RIP.
Total game balance, RIP.

This is not true, magicka sorc are just as powerful, if not more so. There are so many CP passives which augment our abilities. I seriously could write a long winded post to explain it all, but I will just direct you to this wonderful thread that a very intelligent OP had put up with math to support the skills/cp points/weapons to use and their underlying mechanics. If you have the time please peruse the post. Unfortunately ESO forums get inundated with threads of people complaining and whining, that threads like the one I'm about to link get lost with all the crap above it. I mean, to be honest sometimes I don't blame the majority of people whining, only because ZOS does not make understanding the underlying mechanics of the game easy to understand. In fact, it seems as if they try to deter one from understanding such mechanics perhaps for fear of calling them out on their blunders (which people do anyway).

Suffice it to say, understand (or glean some information) the underlying mechanics/math for this game and that will put you on top compared to anyone else who doesn't know the math. The math will provide you with the knowledge in utilizing appropriate equipment, Champion passives, skill points, etc. Of course, experience in PvP is something that you can't read or gain from math, but that's a whole different ball game.

Anway here it is for anyone who is interested: forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209938/pts-2-1-2-sorcerer-arithmagic/p1

Arithmetic is pointless for a combat reactive game like ESO. You might get away with this in WoW or other MMO's where you have to click on hot bars.

But this game is essentially reactive and requires more focus and attention to your surroundings and resource management on top of learning to block, dodge and use light attacks vs heavy. The only genre that I can give as an example is a FPS like destiny.

Anyway BalticBlues is correct the current design changes by Eric Wrobel is to force magicka sorcerers into Stamina sorcerers.

The damage is far better at being sustained, there are more options and you can wear leather armor and heavy armor for far better protection then shield stacking will ever give you.

Quite frankly if you can't see that the shield breaker set was designed to punish magicka sorcerers for being forced into using shields with irresistibly pure damage you blind to the bia ZoS has against it.

I would gladly give up the burst damage if I could keep pressure with sustained damage instead.

ToRelax

Kronuxx wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

been playing stam since IC hit, now rocking a shield breaker set and ruining peoples day

Indeed, all crippled Magicka Sorcs now should consider switching to a Stamina Sorc.
Playing a Shield Breaker predator feels certainly better than being a Shield Breaker victim.

Magicka Sorcs, RIP.
Shields of all classes, RIP.
Total game balance, RIP.

This is not true, magicka sorc are just as powerful, if not more so. There are so many CP passives which augment our abilities. I seriously could write a long winded post to explain it all, but I will just direct you to this wonderful thread that a very intelligent OP had put up with math to support the skills/cp points/weapons to use and their underlying mechanics. If you have the time please peruse the post. Unfortunately ESO forums get inundated with threads of people complaining and whining, that threads like the one I'm about to link get lost with all the crap above it. I mean, to be honest sometimes I don't blame the majority of people whining, only because ZOS does not make understanding the underlying mechanics of the game easy to understand. In fact, it seems as if they try to deter one from understanding such mechanics perhaps for fear of calling them out on their blunders (which people do anyway).

Suffice it to say, understand (or glean some information) the underlying mechanics/math for this game and that will put you on top compared to anyone else who doesn't know the math. The math will provide you with the knowledge in utilizing appropriate equipment, Champion passives, skill points, etc. Of course, experience in PvP is something that you can't read or gain from math, but that's a whole different ball game.

Anway here it is for anyone who is interested: forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209938/pts-2-1-2-sorcerer-arithmagic/p1

This thread is about how to build a magicka sorc dps build for pvp and has absolutely nothing to do with PvP balance...

Cathexis

Nemeliom wrote: »

It's so refreshing to read a thread where there is no complain. Thanks Cathexis

Haha yes well.. I, myself, am usually a pretty big whine bag about stam sorcs (which won't entirely stop wih this thread ^_^).

BalticBlues wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

been playing stam since IC hit, now rocking a shield breaker set and ruining peoples day

Indeed, all crippled Magicka Sorcs now should consider switching to a Stamina Sorc.
Playing a Shield Breaker predator feels certainly better than being a Shield Breaker victim.

Magicka Sorcs, RIP.
Shields of all classes, RIP.
Total game balance, RIP.

Digiman wrote: »

[quote="Kronuxx;2242366

Anyway BalticBlues is correct the current design changes by Eric Wrobel is to force magicka sorcerers into Stamina sorcerers.

The damage is far better at being sustained, there are more options and you can wear leather armor and heavy armor for far better protection then shield stacking will ever give you.

Quite frankly if you can't see that the shield breaker set was designed to punish magicka sorcerers for being forced into using shields with irresistibly pure damage you blind to the bia ZoS has against it.

I would gladly give up the burst damage if I could keep pressure with sustained damage instead.

I entirely disagree that stamina is better than magicka for sorcs now. AOE damage and shards are significantly more powerful than anything I could cook up. Bolt and shields still work very well, they just don't make you immune to death anymore. Shield breaker is good but it's not impossible to resist as a magicka sorc.

As a stam sorc I can only really use wrecking blow offensively which is limited in terms of damage output and is high risk (so I am forced into stealth attacks). Realistically it is impossible to 1vX. Magicka Sorcs are log range and are much more well suited to 1vX

zornyan

BalticBlues wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

ESO forums get inundated with threads of people complaining and whining [...] math will provide you with the knowledge in utilizing appropriate equipment, Champion passives, skill points, etc[/url]

Apart from offending people about "whining", you are also requesting people to take math lessons to find enjoyment in the game again? Sorry, but most people just want to have fun in a game, no matter if with hundreds of CPs or without any of them. Instead of requiring people to study mathematics, the devs should finally introduce some balance in the game.

On consoles, former PC players with hundreds of CPs already smoke up console newbies. And now they even introduce a set that not only destroys the primary protection Magicka Sorcs have but even inverts their shields into damage magnets. Maybe V14 players can study mathematics to cope with this, but once we will see V1 freshmen without any CPs going for PVP getting toasted by Shield Breakers, this will create a toxic environment.

Do you really not know what average people say about TESO?
"Great game, but new players do not have any chance in PVP".

I know way too may people quitting ESO after they defeated Molag Bal.
Because after they are done with questing, PVP brings them more frustration than fun.

With this reputation and the constant flow of imbalances (CPs, SBs, endless cloaking)
it is getting extremely hard to bring new players into the game...

So so wrong, it's bloody EASY to earn CP in this game at a huge rate. You can earn 7 a week just by logging in and doing a few quick quests thanks to enlightenment.

That's without actually playing much, so the minimum a casual can earn is 28 a month, I personally have earnt about 40 spending about 2 days at vr ranks with my dk.

Not to mention with my mere 40 CP I've stomped tons of players including pc transfers on console, hell a couple days ago on my magika templar I 1 v 6 a group and killed 4 before I went down, all I actually did was spam puncturing sweep and nova as they didn't really use any tactics. I guarantee they would be on here spouting that CP is overpowered and I must have had 1000000 CP points to take on 6 of them.

BalticBlues

Cathexis wrote: »

I entirely disagree that stamina is better than magicka for sorcs now.

Deltia: "This [Stamina Sorcer] is probably the best build for IC":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyl_gffGMpg

Cathexis

BalticBlues wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

I entirely disagree that stamina is better than magicka for sorcs now.

Deltia: "This [Stamina Sorcer] is probably the best build for IC":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyl_gffGMpg

I respectfully disagree, the build I'm running right now does insanely well and does not run dual wield at all. Pushing 50k AP a night in the IC casually, ungrouped (3hours~)

blur

Cathexis wrote: »

First time since 1.4 (and I guess sort of 1.5) since I have enjoyed my stam sorc.

Things aren't perfect... Still some glaring problems...BUT they're a hell of a lot more fun than before.

GJ ZoS. Not so much because of the stam sorc changes, but more so for the general systemic changes. After extensive play, its pretty fun.

Cheers ^_^

Really? I feel the opposite. Not only do Stamina Sorcerers do less damage than we ever have, we also have less mobility do the nerf to Hasty Retreat. In fact every single damage ability we have used is doing significantly less damage. Not sure why you think this is "more fun." I suppose it's because you don't die as much as you probably did in 1.6. After all this is the "Training Wheels" meta of PvP now. That said you have more uptime feel stronger, yada yada.

We are actually worse than we have ever been. Stamina Regen passive aside...

Cathexis

blur wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

First time since 1.4 (and I guess sort of 1.5) since I have enjoyed my stam sorc.

Things aren't perfect... Still some glaring problems...BUT they're a hell of a lot more fun than before.

GJ ZoS. Not so much because of the stam sorc changes, but more so for the general systemic changes. After extensive play, its pretty fun.

Cheers ^_^

Really? I feel the opposite. Not only do Stamina Sorcerers do less damage than we ever have, we also have less mobility do the nerf to Hasty Retreat. In fact every single damage ability we have used is doing significantly less damage. Not sure why you think this is "more fun." I suppose it's because you don't die as much as you probably did in 1.6. After all this is the "Training Wheels" meta of PvP now. That said you have more uptime feel stronger, yada yada.

We are actually worse than we have ever been. Stamina Regen passive aside...

@blur I think that the "training wheels meta" is more like they simply removed the ability to one shot and made combat more tactical. Fights between skilled players (that is skilled at using their skills and not skilled at building a character with Uber gear and highly complimentary racials or grinded a million zombies for 1000 cp) can effectively go on indefinitely, which is how it should be. Damage isn't the only factor anymore.

Also I don't think I die any more or less than I did before, my build has just shifted from a stealth snipe to active close range combat, which feels much more engaging.

I mean I know most people in 1.6 used twohand but honestly snipe builds could do the same a two hand build could withought the risk of death close range combat used to have. Now I can get up in someone's face as a tactic and not as an all in bet and who being dependent on potions.

FriedEggSandwich

Magicka sorc is still greater than stam sorc currently but at least stam sorc isn't just a joke anymore. ZOS isn't punishing magicka sorcs, I think they are just making changes to make 1vX more difficult, and they succeeded. Sorcs were the primary 1vx class in 1.6 so are feeling the changes. I'm still doing 8-12k dps on players after the changes to battle spirit, and with 21k spell res and 16k physical res thanks to 1 piece of heavy I feel tanker too. Magicka sorcs are fine in 2.1, about as balanced as they've felt for a while and it's fun.

blur

Cathexis wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

First time since 1.4 (and I guess sort of 1.5) since I have enjoyed my stam sorc.

Things aren't perfect... Still some glaring problems...BUT they're a hell of a lot more fun than before.

GJ ZoS. Not so much because of the stam sorc changes, but more so for the general systemic changes. After extensive play, its pretty fun.

Cheers ^_^

Really? I feel the opposite. Not only do Stamina Sorcerers do less damage than we ever have, we also have less mobility do the nerf to Hasty Retreat. In fact every single damage ability we have used is doing significantly less damage. Not sure why you think this is "more fun." I suppose it's because you don't die as much as you probably did in 1.6. After all this is the "Training Wheels" meta of PvP now. That said you have more uptime feel stronger, yada yada.

We are actually worse than we have ever been. Stamina Regen passive aside...

@blur I think that the "training wheels meta" is more like they simply removed the ability to one shot and made combat more tactical. Fights between skilled players (that is skilled at using their skills and not skilled at building a character with Uber gear and highly complimentary racials or grinded a million zombies for 1000 cp) can effectively go on indefinitely, which is how it should be. Damage isn't the only factor anymore.

Also I don't think I die any more or less than I did before, my build has just shifted from a stealth snipe to active close range combat, which feels much more engaging.

I mean I know most people in 1.6 used twohand but honestly snipe builds could do the same a two hand build could withought the risk of death close range combat used to have. Now I can get up in someone's face as a tactic and not as an all in bet.

First of all, fights are not more tactical. Zergs are still zergs and I rarely see people running around alone (in IC). Fights between skilled players often result in a lopsided fight with other people jumping in. Damage is so ridiculously low now you essentially wait for other people to show up and help or kill you. The CP argument is moot. There was no one running around wrecking people with 1k CP and that being the factor to them wrecking. In fact prior to 2.1 on NA servers there was only handful of people above 1k and most of them didn't PvP. However those considered to be apex predators had around 2-300. Yes damage was a factor, however ignoring skill is erroneous. You could give a craptastic player my gear off my Sorc and I could wear green quest rewards and likely best him in 1v1. That's not to say gear doesn't play a part (it certainly does) but skill does as well.

Regarding your last paragraph, a 2h build properly geared and played was actually leaps and bounds better than a bow Sorc. Bow Sorcs pre patch were garbage and relied completely on a big crit from a snipe opener. Outside of that, they got boned hard. Whereas a well built/played 2h build would smash people with ease and still have amazing mobility to dart in and dart of sticky situations. Boundless Storm and Hasty Retreat with Streak was no joke. Particularly if you were an Orc. To be honest, as a Melee Stamina Sorc I find that I die much easier now. Being able to dispatch people quick before the numbers get too out of control is no longer an option, nor is mobility. Streak is nerfed hard into the ground and so is Hasty Retreat.

This:

Now I can get up in someone's face as a tactic and not as an all in bet.

sums it up though. As I originally said, you feel stronger, more comfortable to not die. In truth though, you play the game differently now and are playing a more fun variation of the class than the boring snipe build which actually underperformed compared to the nerfed version you now play. Had you played the way myself, Xael, Leper, or Fengrush played in 1.6 (2h dmg mobility), you might actually feel differently Btw, I am not faulting you for having "fun." Just keep in mind it's subjective and some of us feel nerfed hardcore.

Cathexis

@blur I found 2 hand builds to be slow and clunky and outgunned by any heavy armor class in 1.6

I much prefer ed the long range stealth approach, mind you I was an orc, so with 12% sprint increase stacked with leather armor stacked wit bow dodge roll I didn't even need to slot a speed increase skill. I was also putting out 10-12k base snipes before crit/stealth bonus with 28% armor pierce and 300 unrest able damage proc and camo hunter proc so it wasn't hard to kill someone with 2-3 arrows (that's not in stealth, so before stealth my snipes could hit as hard as 20k+).

I didn't find it a boring build at all, it was actually quite capable, and deadly inside keeps.

blur

Cathexis wrote: »

@blur I found 2 hand builds to be slow and clunky and outgunned by any heavy armor class in 1.6

I much prefer ed the long range stealth approach, mind you I was an orc, so with 12% sprint increase stacked with leather armor stacked wit bow dodge roll I didn't even need to slot a speed increase skill. I was also putting out 10-12k base snipes before crit/stealth bonus with 28% armor pierce and 300 unrest able damage proc and camo hunter proc so it wasn't hard to kill someone with 2-3 arrows (that's not in stealth, so before stealth my snipes could hit as hard as 20k+).

I didn't find it a boring build at all, it was actually quite capable, and deadly inside keeps.

Yeah 2h was very fluid for me. I found bow clunky and had 0 problems with heavy armor. I can tell right now you didn't use 2h Maul with Sharpened trait. People regardless of armor type would melt like butter as long as you had close to 3k WD. Yes dodge roll with a bow made use of the Hasty Retreat passive, however if you didn't have another movement buff you were not that mobile. This also implies you didn't use Boundless Storm which means you were very squishy and slow to boot. No offense but if you were just spamming non stealthed snipes on people and killing them, they were either terrible or oblivious to their surroundings. That or you were just perched on a ledge and picking people off as they ran through a choke. I say this because snipe is one of the easiest abilities to shut down when done out of stealth, especially in 1.6. I am not picking on you, just stating matter of fact. But hey, if you made it work for you and had fun that's cool...

Cathexis

blur wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

@blur I found 2 hand builds to be slow and clunky and outgunned by any heavy armor class in 1.6

I much prefer ed the long range stealth approach, mind you I was an orc, so with 12% sprint increase stacked with leather armor stacked wit bow dodge roll I didn't even need to slot a speed increase skill. I was also putting out 10-12k base snipes before crit/stealth bonus with 28% armor pierce and 300 unrest able damage proc and camo hunter proc so it wasn't hard to kill someone with 2-3 arrows (that's not in stealth, so before stealth my snipes could hit as hard as 20k+).

I didn't find it a boring build at all, it was actually quite capable, and deadly inside keeps.

Yeah 2h was very fluid for me. I found bow clunky and had 0 problems with heavy armor. I can tell right now you didn't use 2h Maul with Sharpened trait. People regardless of armor type would melt like butter as long as you had close to 3k WD. Yes dodge roll with a bow made use of the Hasty Retreat passive, however if you didn't have another movement buff you were not that mobile. This also implies you didn't use Boundless Storm which means you were very squishy and slow to boot. No offense but if you were just spamming non stealthed snipes on people and killing them, they were either terrible or oblivious to their surroundings. That or you were just perched on a ledge and picking people off as they ran through a choke. I say this because snipe is one of the easiest abilities to shut down when done out of stealth, especially in 1.6. I am not picking on you, just stating matter of fact. But hey, if you made it work for you and had fun that's cool...

I was spamming stealth snipes though and melting like butter as well. Stamina stacked for infinite dodge roll and speed boosts were 30 from bow, 12 from orc passive and 21 from medium armor = 63% increased speed and used retreating maneuver for the 40% speed increase when combat demanded it (would swap between that and shuffle depending on how things were going... I was moving plenty fast. Didn't need to be heavy armor because when people got too close I'd just pop an invis pot.

Kronuxx

BalticBlues wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

ESO forums get inundated with threads of people complaining and whining [...] math will provide you with the knowledge in utilizing appropriate equipment, Champion passives, skill points, etc[/url]

Apart from offending people about "whining", you are also requesting people to take math lessons to find enjoyment in the game again? Sorry, but most people just want to have fun in a game, no matter if with hundreds of CPs or without any of them. Instead of requiring people to study mathematics, the devs should finally introduce some balance in the game.

.....

With this reputation and the constant flow of imbalances (CPs, SBs, endless cloaking)
it is getting extremely hard to bring new players into the game...

Math lessons? It's simple arithmetic. Addition, multiplication, division, exponents, subtraction. Unless one hasn't graduated high school yet, I don't see how it's hard to understand. In addition, by whose numbers do you esitimate that it is has become more difficult to bring in more players? Your numbers? Where's your proof? Based on SuperData's numbers ESO players have increased since the removal of a monthly subscription. Don't believe me? Then look it up yourself. Also, did you even read my post? I already stated most people don't understand the underlying mechanics anyway, hence why people "complain" on the forums about certain classes or skill abilities. I even claim that ZOS is to blame for making the underlying mechanics difficult to understand for the general player base.

Digiman wrote: »

Arithmetic is pointless for a combat reactive game like ESO. You might get away with this in WoW or other MMO's where you have to click on hot bars.

......

Quite frankly if you can't see that the shield breaker set was designed to punish magicka sorcerers for being forced into using shields with irresistibly pure damage you blind to the bia ZoS has against it.

I would gladly give up the burst damage if I could keep pressure with sustained damage instead.

Whaaa? Did you even read my post as well? Come on guys, I'm trying to help people see the light by using their brains. If you don't want to, then fine, not my problem. But at least come up with points relevant to the discussion at hand. Communication is the key to understanding differences.

Case in point: You claim that arithmetic is pointless for combat reactive game like ESO. Well guess what, so did I (to a degree). Just look at the last sentence of the last paragraph of my post. Which by the way, studies have shown that human beings tend to remember the beginning and ending of lists/statements. Looks like you my friend just didn't read my post period, or just have extremely poor reading comprehension skills.

And I state: "Of course, experience in PvP is something that you can't read or gain from math, but that's a whole different ball game."

Also to add to my point of "to a degree". Let me give a real life...or rather a gaming question I get all the time in guild chat. "I'm a Dunmer DK but I'm having such a hard time beating mobs/fighting other players my own level. I have no idea what's going on. I've put all my attribute points into stamina, but my fire lash doesn't seem to be hitting hard". This is where understanding the underlying mechanics helps. Like, where explaining that stamina based skills scale off of max stamina + weapon damage and magicka based skill are based off of max magicka + spell damage. ( Side note: each stamina based skill has a different coefficient used when scaling with stamina. For example Wrecking Blow scales extremely well with stamina, while the same increase in stamina will make a smaller change in damage for Executioner.)

And @Digiman as for your statement "Quite frankly if you can't see that the shield breaker set was designed to punish magicka sorcerers for being forced into using shields with irresistibly pure damage you blind to the bia ZoS has against it."

Where in the hell did I say that Shield Breaker was or wasn't broken? In fact, where did I even mention the words "Shield Breaker"? 1st poster says: I like Stam Sorcs. 4th poster (BalticBlues) says: Magicka Sorcs RIP, Shields RIP, Balance RIP. I say: Not true, MAGICKA Sorcs just as powerful as stam, if not more so. Remember the SATs from years ago? Yeah, look for the key words: I'm addressing MAGICKA Sorcs, not Shield Breaker. That's a whole different tangent that I don't care to go into nor use up time discussing.

ToRelax wrote: »

This thread is about how to build a magicka sorc dps build for pvp and has absolutely nothing to do with PvP balance...

I understand that, but I'm not claiming it's for PvP balance. Rather I use it to strengthen my argument that Magicka Sorcs are not dead. Although, with that in mind, you can extrapolate said information, and tip the "balance" in PvP in your favor.

Look guys, gals. You don't want to learn the mechanics. That's fine. I agree, there's better things to do with your life no doubt. On the other hand, if you want to sit and complain (yes I said it. Complain. Is that a hurtful word? Well too bad) and look at game with the mentality of "half glass empty", then that's your prerogative. But how's that going to help you or anyone else for that matter? Make the best with what you have. You can't do that, well then...that's just sad. Now that song by the Rolling Stones is popping up in my head..."you can't always get what you waaanntt"

ToRelax

Kronuxx wrote: »

[...]

ToRelax wrote: »

This thread is about how to build a magicka sorc dps build for pvp and has absolutely nothing to do with PvP balance...

I understand that, but I'm not claiming it's for PvP balance. Rather I use it to strengthen my argument that Magicka Sorcs are not dead. Although, with that in mind, you can extrapolate said information, and tip the "balance" in PvP in your favor.

[...]

Well, this is a forum about "PVP Combat & Skills", so I would expect players to talk about that.
How well a Sorc dps can perform in PvE bears absolutely no meaning for PvP, it's simply done differently, thus the information from the thread you linked is unuseable for this part of the game. Just let it go, lol.

Makkir

dsalter wrote: »

i can add to this, been playing stam since IC hit, now rocking a shield breaker set and ruining peoples day

I am running the same thing. It's awesome

Master_Kas

I started reading this thread with joy, since I just started a khajiit stamina sorc.

Then I read the rest.

hasty retreat nerf + dodgeroll nerf + streak/BOL nerf

Cathexis

Master_Kas wrote: »

I started reading this thread with joy, since I just started a khajiit stamina sorc.

Then I read the rest.

hasty retreat nerf + dodgeroll nerf + streak/BOL nerf

@Master_Kas

I wouldn't worry about any of that its just a totally different build now. I don't even have bolt morphs on my bar anymore. You don't need to escape combat or die anymore, theres a lot more back and forth.

Zsymon

BalticBlues wrote: »

I know way too may people quitting ESO after they defeated Molag Bal.
Because after they are done with questing, PVP brings them more frustration than fun.

This is true actually, I introduced a friend to ESO a while ago and he defeated Molag Bal, tried to do some PvP as he was bored of questing, and he quit the game a few days later. This happens every single time I try to bring new people in.

Waffennacht

I'm thinking of making my sorc stamina based too. The reason is simple. The reason why I was heavily magicka was for Sorc's best spell, hardened ward. Now that the best spell is now a liability there is no real reason for my playstyle to be magicka.

My playstyle is more tanky than dps. Sword and board (if im still going to run it) likes stamina. The new stamina based spells (imo) are better than the magicka based morphs. (Looking at you thunderous presence) bolt got nerfed, again making an argument for stamina based.

A lot of the magicka based skills are range based, again making my playstyle not a good fit. Of course I'll have to play test, but sitting here im thinking that stamina sorc (with a bit of my own take) is what will make me happy

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Everyone that thinks OMG stam sorc so amazing now that watched deltias video needs to understand how many champion points that guy has.

Having a metric ass ton of champion points will mask a lot of sustain and survivability issues that stamina sorc still suffers from.

Cathexis

@Waffennacht shields are still strong you just need more tanky elements it's not a one skill defense anymore, and bolt is still spammable if you have a huge magicka pool. There are a lot of downsides to running a stam build; no active class based offensive ability, poor damage, limited cp choices, poor 1vX, poor aoe abilities (basically just weapon skills that are too low damage, no more proxy det, no more destro aoe).

Don't misinterpret my post the grass isn't greener on the other side.

That said its a lot more playable than in 1.6.

@Yolokin_Swagonborn I dont have as many points as deltia probably but I have an experienced players worth I would say, so anybody reading this should probably take my post with a grain of salt as well.

Dyride

blur wrote: »

There was no one running around wrecking people with 1k CP and that being the factor to them wrecking.

You have obviously never faced off against Dark Syner or Methuselah. Good players and theorycrafters but the fact they had 700+ CP when most were barely over 300 says a lot if you ever saw how deadly they were.

Also Sharpened was so broken in the last patch that it is really hard to compare and use that as a baseline for how the game should perform, and I say this as someone who has all of my mains on stamina.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Everyone that thinks OMG stam sorc so amazing now that watched deltias video needs to understand how many champion points that guy has.

Having a metric ass ton of champion points will mask a lot of sustain and survivability issues that stamina sorc still suffers from.

I agree in that build from Deltia is slightly disingenuous because he has over 600 CP. That is roughly 4000 resources for each attribute compared to 0 CP.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Dyride wrote: »

blur wrote: »

There was no one running around wrecking people with 1k CP and that being the factor to them wrecking.

You have obviously never faced off against Dark Syner or Methuselah. Good players and theorycrafters but the fact they had 700+ CP when most were barely over 300 says a lot if you ever saw how deadly they were.

Also Sharpened was so broken in the last patch that it is really hard to compare and use that as a baseline for how the game should perform, and I say this as someone who has all of my mains on stamina.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Everyone that thinks OMG stam sorc so amazing now that watched deltias video needs to understand how many champion points that guy has.

Having a metric ass ton of champion points will mask a lot of sustain and survivability issues that stamina sorc still suffers from.

I agree in that build from Deltia is slightly disingenuous because he has over 600 CP. That is roughly 4000 resources for each attribute compared to 0 CP.

Not only that but he was able to almost max out mooncalf and warlord. Isn't that about a 20% overall reduction in stamina costs and a 20% increase in stamina regen?

The major issue is that ZOS likes to watch his build videos and then nerf them because they look OP to the untrained eye the way Deltia presents it. That happened with Deltia's last stam sorc video Velvet Hammer. ZOS nerfed the very lynchpins of that build.

ZOS has blinders on when it comes to how poorly balanced the champion system is and is going to make either of the following false assertions.

1. Stamina Sorcerer is currently competitive with other stamina builds
2. Stamina Sorc is OP and now needs to be nerfed (because of Champ Points)

I have shown quantitatively HERE that assertion 1 is completely false. If 1 is false, 2 is false as well.

But that's not how ZOS will see it. They will see Deltia's little 1vX and ZOS hates 1vX because it makes casuals cry. But instead of seeing how easily someone with TONS of Champ Points can wreck inexperienced or new players, they will see a SUPER OP STAM SORC OMG LETS NERF IT!!!!1!