Think this needs a re-look zos

shugg

So im on ps4 waiting for imp city and i play a tank pve do some pvp.

Have i read this right that when fighting mobs you will only get TL stones if you are in the top 12 people for damage on that mob/boss, if so how will healers and tanks get any stones from large groups. I know some healers can dps as its still using similar recources but as a main tank focus i feel that im missing out as my attribute points are focused on mitigation.

If im right, is this an actual issue or just me?

Egonieser

If you are grouped up you don't need to tag a mob or boss yourself, nor do any damage to it. A group shares everything even if you didn't kill it yourself. You will still get Xp, loot (including TV stones) as long as you are in that group.

Turelus

Healers get them the same as they would AP/Loot. With how much damage bosses and mobs dish out you can just run around spamming healing ward and get all the stones you ever wanted.

Egonieser wrote: »

If you are grouped up you don't need to tag a mob or boss yourself, nor do any damage to it. A group shares everything even if you didn't kill it yourself. You will still get Xp, loot (including TV stones) as long as you are in that group.

The issue there is that there are so many players around hitting the same things as you that often you won't be able to relax and get the loot.

shugg

Thanks for the feed back, seems a strange mechanic but if its not Causing an big issue then its ok.

Again thanks

SturgeHammer

shugg wrote: »

So im on ps4 waiting for imp city and i play a tank pve do some pvp.

Have i read this right that when fighting mobs you will only get TL stones if you are in the top 12 people for damage on that mob/boss, if so how will healers and tanks get any stones from large groups. I know some healers can dps as its still using similar recources but as a main tank focus i feel that im missing out as my attribute points are focused on mitigation.

If im right, is this an actual issue or just me?

My best advice would be to run in the smallest group needed to complete the bosses. That way, barring any outside intervention from other groups, you will get loot. The largest groups are mostly for safety in numbers, but a few experienced pver's shouldn't have much trouble with the sewer content. Also be vigilant and make sure your group doesn't have to go "all out" to take on the pve mobs because there will be enemies lurking around ready to strike significantly damaged or out of magicka/stamina players.

Sithisvoid

Don't run in groups larger than 12?

Personofsecrets

Egonieser wrote: »

If you are grouped up you don't need to tag a mob or boss yourself, nor do any damage to it. A group shares everything even if you didn't kill it yourself. You will still get Xp, loot (including TV stones) as long as you are in that group.

I play tank and have the problem that @shugg is concerned about. In large groups I do not get loot from boss enemies.

I have fought Molag Bal's avatar in IC about 6 times now and not gotten loot except for the one time that the raid was small. This isn't very fun @ZOS_RichLambert

Edit: Tanking the walking banner wearing bosses in a big group is extremely unrewarding as well. I have the biggest chance of dying, losing stones, and not getting loot. High risk low chance of reward.

Troneon

The game is in danger of becoming like Guild Wars 2, where everyone just runs full berserk damage builds and spams aoe skills with no skill or tactics, no tanks needed, no healers needed just damage and spam.

They need to make tanking and healing as rewarding as doing damage, or you might as well call this game Guild Wars 2.

Soriana

I play tank and have the problem that @shugg is concerned about. In large groups I do not get loot from boss enemies.

I have fought Molag Bal's avatar in IC about 6 times now and not gotten loot except for the one time that the raid was small. This isn't very fun @ZOS_RichLambert

Edit: Tanking the walking banner wearing bosses in a big group is extremely unrewarding as well. I have the biggest chance of dying, losing stones, and not getting loot. High risk low chance of reward.

Thanks for posting this; I thought no one got loot from the avatar and you didn't get anything until you cleared the portals. I was seriously considering switching over to my dps build while in the sewers so I could get more loot. I was running in my 'never say die' tank mode with almost 40K hp and died twice. That talked me into not going dps!

MrGrimey

People already planning the Zerg fest... So much for the small scale pvp that ic was supposed to offer... Leave it to the community to ruin things

Kartalin

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I have fought Molag Bal's avatar in IC about 6 times now and not gotten loot except for the one time that the raid was small. This isn't very fun @ZOS_RichLambert

My understanding is that if you get killed by the death wave that Molag Bal's avatar sends out when it dies then you don't get any loot. That has been true in each of the times I've fought it, surviving = loot, dying = no loot. Is this something that's happening to you? I recommend not trying to tank it up close, try kiting it and using ranged dps.

nimander99

shugg wrote: »

So im on ps4 waiting for imp city and i play a tank pve do some pvp.

Have i read this right that when fighting mobs you will only get TL stones if you are in the top 12 people for damage on that mob/boss, if so how will healers and tanks get any stones from large groups. I know some healers can dps as its still using similar recources but as a main tank focus i feel that im missing out as my attribute points are focused on mitigation.

If im right, is this an actual issue or just me?

Yep, this has been a frustration point for me as I'm fairly anti-social in game... every time I group I feel like I have to rush which kills meh mersion but as a tank/healer (which I refuse to change b/c play your way) I earn stones and loot at a much slower pace then most others.

briandivisionb16_ESO

OK I think there might be more to it than we are thinking because my friend hit Molag with 1 heavy attack and got loot when there were 45+ guys.

corrosivechains

Troneon wrote: »

The game is in danger of becoming like Guild Wars 2, where everyone just runs full berserk damage builds and spams aoe skills with no skill or tactics, no tanks needed, no healers needed just damage and spam.

They need to make tanking and healing as rewarding as doing damage, or you might as well call this game Guild Wars 2.

^ Guild Wars 2 got real boring real fast when you realized you couldn't really build fun characters.

lonewolf26

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

If you are grouped up you don't need to tag a mob or boss yourself, nor do any damage to it. A group shares everything even if you didn't kill it yourself. You will still get Xp, loot (including TV stones) as long as you are in that group.

I play tank and have the problem that @shugg is concerned about. In large groups I do not get loot from boss enemies.

I have fought Molag Bal's avatar in IC about 6 times now and not gotten loot except for the one time that the raid was small. This isn't very fun @ZOS_RichLambert

Edit: Tanking the walking banner wearing bosses in a big group is extremely unrewarding as well. I have the biggest chance of dying, losing stones, and not getting loot. High risk low chance of reward.

I strongly second this as I've had a similar experience. I've run support tank as well and have received no item drops due to leeches out dpsing and out healing me. Swapped up to dps, got items, but the team died more often for the aggro control loss. Please look at making tanking this content more rewarding in IC.

TheShadowScout

Sithisvoid wrote: »

Don't run in groups larger than 12?

^This!^

Can still get scre...uhm... "disadvantaged" if another group shares in the kill, but... fu... aehm... forget the super zergballs.

EnOeZ

ZOS do not care about PVP tanks
ZOS has no clue about Heavy Armor PVP
ZOS has no grasp, no incite of Melee PVP

ZOS still doing an awful, atrocious job in terms of combat design (including spells, abilities, resources and mechanics) for anything that looks like a "Warrior".

Stay at range like 80% of players and you will be happy, because TESO has been designed for magicka and PVE.

Lylith

milthalas wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I have fought Molag Bal's avatar in IC about 6 times now and not gotten loot except for the one time that the raid was small. This isn't very fun @ZOS_RichLambert

My understanding is that if you get killed by the death wave that Molag Bal's avatar sends out when it dies then you don't get any loot. That has been true in each of the times I've fought it, surviving = loot, dying = no loot. Is this something that's happening to you? I recommend not trying to tank it up close, try kiting it and using ranged dps.

i died in molag's death wave today, resurrected on the spot and looted his pile of ashes. i've also survived the wave before and got nothing.

as a templar, i've started 'jesus beaming' and using soul assault on the banner bosses and molag bal; evidently it does enough damage to finish 'in the money.'

of course, ymmv.

Personofsecrets

milthalas wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I have fought Molag Bal's avatar in IC about 6 times now and not gotten loot except for the one time that the raid was small. This isn't very fun @ZOS_RichLambert

My understanding is that if you get killed by the death wave that Molag Bal's avatar sends out when it dies then you don't get any loot. That has been true in each of the times I've fought it, surviving = loot, dying = no loot. Is this something that's happening to you? I recommend not trying to tank it up close, try kiting it and using ranged dps.

No that isn't the issue.

Personofsecrets

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Sithisvoid wrote: »

Don't run in groups larger than 12?

^This!^

Can still get scre...uhm... "disadvantaged" if another group shares in the kill, but... fu... aehm... forget the super zergballs.

And then as soon as a player makes a thread about getting ganked the same people that tout that line will say "you should play in group."

No, tanking is a crucial role. Tanks should have their own way of gaining credit for a kill. The other roles have this and I'm tired of tanking coming with a bunch of baggage that other roles don't have to deal with.

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_RichLambert

Why isn't the virtual DPS that a tank does by using the pierce armor debuff a worthy enough contribution that earns a tank, who is in a large group, boss loot?

shugg

Agree with alot of the comments about tanks being left behind in this patch, i know its a mainly pvp dlc but thats 50% of the game to me. Zos needs to look at this issue in pvp tearms as i carnt respec every day just to be able to stand my ground when IC hits ps4.
If it was me then i would look at a buff in the heavy armour tree - some thing like " when taunt is active, your damage is increased by (x) amaount of damage taken" this would mean it works well in pve and links into imperial city. It would also mean people wont jump to heavy armour for just a pvp bonus as it required taunting.

Tankqull

MrGrimey wrote: »

People already planning the Zerg fest... So much for the small scale pvp that ic was supposed to offer... Leave it to the community to ruin things

well ic is entirely doable with 4man groups and with ease in a 6 man group. everything more are lazy players demanding the zerg for safety.
so there nothing ZOS needs to interfere its all on the players side. its actually a mechanic to reduce zerging in ic as tanks and healers are the first leaving the zerg because of not gaining anything (no gold, no AP - players are worth nothing down there, and no TV) leaving the zerg supportless and thus easily crushable by smaller forces.

Asmael

Running in a fairly small group with a completely underleveled (lvl 14 or so at the time) DK to tank the Temple District boss

You know, the daedric titan, can't remember the name, in the quest where you have to save a priest inside the central building

Didn't die, took a lot of punishment, even forced the dude to face the wall instead of the group, and...

YES! AN ACHIEVEMENT!

And...

Nothing else? This is absolutely infuriating. This also happens with portals, so now I just dropped the tank BS and spam high DPS attacks to get a chance to have some loot.

Being a tank feels extremely unrewarding at times...

Personofsecrets

Tankqull wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

People already planning the Zerg fest... So much for the small scale pvp that ic was supposed to offer... Leave it to the community to ruin things

well ic is entirely doable with 4man groups and with ease in a 6 man group. everything more are lazy players demanding the zerg for safety.
so there nothing ZOS needs to interfere its all on the players side. its actually a mechanic to reduce zerging in ic as tanks and healers are the first leaving the zerg because of not gaining anything (no gold, no AP - players are worth nothing down there, and no TV) leaving the zerg supportless and thus easily crushable by smaller forces.

It's a mechanic to reduce zerging, but disproportionately affects tanks.

Nobody cares about what can technically be done. There are plenty of reasons to zerg or not to zerg and all of those reasons doesn't make what should be done a clear cut choice.

If your opinion is that content can be 4-manned, then be my guest and 4-man the sewers, but the reality of the sewers is that tanks will join large groups and will face the consequence of tanking that is not getting loot, and that is regardless of your narrow opinion about how players should be acting.

This issue is just another one of the things that makes tanking not fun, but what do we get to make tanking better? A stinking nerf...

Personofsecrets

Asmael wrote: »

Running in a fairly small group with a completely underleveled (lvl 14 or so at the time) DK to tank the Temple District boss

You know, the daedric titan, can't remember the name, in the quest where you have to save a priest inside the central building

Didn't die, took a lot of punishment, even forced the dude to face the wall instead of the group, and...

YES! AN ACHIEVEMENT!

And...

Nothing else? This is absolutely infuriating. This also happens with portals, so now I just dropped the tank BS and spam high DPS attacks to get a chance to have some loot.

Being a tank feels extremely unrewarding at times...

Here, have less stamina, it will make tanking better.

Tankqull

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

People already planning the Zerg fest... So much for the small scale pvp that ic was supposed to offer... Leave it to the community to ruin things

well ic is entirely doable with 4man groups and with ease in a 6 man group. everything more are lazy players demanding the zerg for safety.
so there nothing ZOS needs to interfere its all on the players side. its actually a mechanic to reduce zerging in ic as tanks and healers are the first leaving the zerg because of not gaining anything (no gold, no AP - players are worth nothing down there, and no TV) leaving the zerg supportless and thus easily crushable by smaller forces.

It's a mechanic to reduce zerging, but disproportionately affects tanks.

Nobody cares about what can technically be done. There are plenty of reasons to zerg or not to zerg and all of those reasons doesn't make what should be done a clear cut choice.

If your opinion is that content can be 4-manned, then be my guest and 4-man the sewers, but the reality of the sewers is that tanks will join large groups and will face the consequence of tanking that is not getting loot, and that is regardless of your narrow opinion about how players should be acting.

This issue is just another one of the things that makes tanking not fun, but what do we get to make tanking better? A stinking nerf...

well its your choice. spout about being useles as a tank or grap 3dds with off heal capabilities and be able to do every boss in IC easily and get 10x more TV than a dd in a zerg/min.

UltimaJoe777

Egonieser wrote: »

If you are grouped up you don't need to tag a mob or boss yourself, nor do any damage to it. A group shares everything even if you didn't kill it yourself. You will still get Xp, loot (including TV stones) as long as you are in that group.

You do, however, not get stuff as often if you don't "tag" the enemy. If that isn't true then I guess I am just unlucky as usual lol

willymchilybily

If they can factor in healing to loot dish-out they should probably be able to factor in damage taken/damage mitigated. I hope They do for all you peeps that love to tank

Tre_775

shugg wrote: »

So im on ps4 waiting for imp city and i play a tank pve do some pvp.

Have i read this right that when fighting mobs you will only get TL stones if you are in the top 12 people for damage on that mob/boss, if so how will healers and tanks get any stones from large groups. I know some healers can dps as its still using similar recources but as a main tank focus i feel that im missing out as my attribute points are focused on mitigation.

If im right, is this an actual issue or just me?

I'm not sure where you read this. There's nothing about this at all in PC/Mac Patch Notes v2.1.4. You do realize that a lot of players tend to drastically misunderstand game mechanics or even pull their information out of their assets just so they can sound like they know what they're talking about? Take it all with a grain of salt.

Tankqull

Tre_775 wrote: »

shugg wrote: »

So im on ps4 waiting for imp city and i play a tank pve do some pvp.

Have i read this right that when fighting mobs you will only get TL stones if you are in the top 12 people for damage on that mob/boss, if so how will healers and tanks get any stones from large groups. I know some healers can dps as its still using similar recources but as a main tank focus i feel that im missing out as my attribute points are focused on mitigation.

If im right, is this an actual issue or just me?

I'm not sure where you read this. There's nothing about this at all in PC/Mac Patch Notes v2.1.4. You do realize that a lot of players tend to drastically misunderstand game mechanics or even pull their information out of their assets just so they can sound like they know what they're talking about? Take it all with a grain of salt.

he is actually correct. 12 players is the cap of equal loot/exp distribution between contesters on a mob. if more than 12 players are involved into a fight with a mobs the loot/exp will be distributed to the 12 most contributing players where 1point of dmg =1 point of healed HP = 1 point of mitigated dmg but due to the fact that mobs attacked by multiple plyers die rather quickly DD´s will be most likly count as those 12 highest contributors.