Multi-Effect Enchantments and Itemization 2.1 - is Z.. gone crazy?

Francescolg

I mean, seriously, players, who got enough time to farm in this game, have already that many advantages, as:

• 500-1000+ Champion Points
• Golden gear left and right
• Master Weapons
• Rare PvP sets for 5k weapon dmg builds
• Etc...

With this patch this list is growing into infinity...., we've seen sets which offer enormous burst damage capabilities, as Molag Kena or the new 3-piece bonus sets. I was ok with most of the new content, until I saw this:


How big does ZOS want to make the gap between top-equiped players and casuals?
If a player can equip 7 armor pieces with tri-stats enchants, it appears to be a very serious balance-gap, as this basically means a huge increase in basic stats, not just dmg-output (1.6 burst damage / ego shooter style).

So, now, in ESO, we'll have some sort of Power Ranger in PvP and guild groups, anyone else (especially not-so-much farmers) will feel like an insect in terms of balance. This Power Rangers in their tight, shiny suits.. Is this the crowd this patch was made for? Do you want to be a Power Ranger!?

s1gm4xb14_ESO

So now you are complaining that there is to much content............

Ch4mpTW

Wow... Just... Wow... I knew skooma was no joke, but wow. Just say no, Zenimax. Just say no. Keep it up, and you'll end-up just like those poor Khajiit in Skyrim.

sagitter

-There will be a cap in the future in cs you can spend.
-Golden gear left and right? proff??? anyway obtain v15 sets is easy and there isn't much difference with a v16 set of same kind.
- Master weapons are v16 now? i'm not sure about this, i though only v14.

newtinmpls

I am sad to see that.

olsborg

OP has a point tho, grinders/farmers/nolifers will and always have had an advantage over ppl on the other side of the fence, wich is ok, but....that fence has now grown pretty darn big if you ask me. Specially with cp and the new telvar grind system.

Egonieser

*** O.o

acw37162

What exactly is your problem with multi-stat glyphs.

Blanced builds dont break the game.

Im a filthy casual and I love this, its also my understanding these glyphs will be available at all levels. Not sure if the essence rune can be found outside of IC but we will see.

Im looking forwward to these glyphs and dont really care all that much about the people who play the game 13 - 20 hours a day.

They have champion points and monster helmets. I have a family the loves spending time with me, a job, money, my dream truck, three dogs, and real life/real world friends who enjoy my company. As Charlie Sheen would say "winning"

Nebthet78

acw37162 wrote: »

What exactly is your problem with multi-stat glyphs.

Blanced builds dont break the game.

Im a filthy casual and I love this, its also my understanding these glyphs will be available at all levels. Not sure if the essence rune can be found outside of IC but we will see.

Im looking forwward to these glyphs and dont really care all that much about the people who play the game 13 - 20 hours a day.

They have champion points and monster helmets. I have a family the loves spending time with me, a job, money, my dream truck, three dogs, and real life/real world friends who enjoy my company. As Charlie Sheen would say "winning"

The essence rune for the tri-stat glyphs cannot be found outside IC at this time. Plus they are a rare find inside IC.

CP5

Nebthet78 wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

What exactly is your problem with multi-stat glyphs.

Blanced builds dont break the game.

Im a filthy casual and I love this, its also my understanding these glyphs will be available at all levels. Not sure if the essence rune can be found outside of IC but we will see.

Im looking forwward to these glyphs and dont really care all that much about the people who play the game 13 - 20 hours a day.

They have champion points and monster helmets. I have a family the loves spending time with me, a job, money, my dream truck, three dogs, and real life/real world friends who enjoy my company. As Charlie Sheen would say "winning"

The essence rune for the tri-stat glyphs cannot be found outside IC at this time. Plus they are a rare find inside IC.

I'll add that its also one of the things zos is using to encourage hybrid builds. A rare glyph, for hybrid builds...

newtinmpls

Sigh.... I think softcaps would work better

Woman

newtinmpls wrote: »

Sigh.... I think softcaps would work better

I thought I was the only one that liked soft caps from before XD

ScruffyWhiskers

I think the magicka enchant on that would be like 1041. So you are giving up 600 odd magicka for 900 odd extra in health and stamina. That's great for somebody who wants to try out a hybrid type build and I think the game would be healthier if we weren't all 62 in one stat plus enchanted to the max in the same stat.

Qyrk

All I got from this OP is that "waa waa, I don't have enough time to farm like some people but I should be entitled for the same with less commmitment"

Acrolas

I think the Divines enchantment is a little too strong - 6% would probably be a little more balanced.
But the multi-enchant is fine. Three stats with an average of 448 instead of just one for 1345.

You can still get wrecked in IC with the best gear, though. Gear really does help you be a better team player because you're crazy if you think you're going to solo much in IC.

Pangnirtung

olsborg wrote: »

OP has a point tho, grinders/farmers/nolifers will and always have had an advantage over ppl on the other side of the fence, wich is ok, but....that fence has now grown pretty darn big if you ask me. Specially with cp and the new telvar grind system.

Sure they will always have an advantage buy it seems that ZOS is catering to them.

The trickle down of this stuff to the casual player is there but nonetheless it is disconcerting.

tplink3r1

Wheres the problem? Just buy the mats.

Iluvrien

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Wheres the problem? Just buy the mats.

Excellent, can you lend me the small ocean of gold I would need to continue my crafting business by buying all of the new mats at current guild store prices?

I'll pay you back... eventually.

Sausage

Does anybody know where to get Multi-Effect Runes, I found my firs yesterday from almost 1 month of IC playing. I think I got it from Advanced Chest. These are rare.

Elijah_Crow

Yes. From chests in imperial city and treasure scamps in the sewers.

Well, that's where you get the rune to craft the glyph.

MaxwellC

Just saying multi-effect runes are completely useless if you tend to max out one particular style of combat e.g. magicka/stamina builds. If you hybrid (use both magicka and stamina abilities a lot) I still think it's a useless enchantment, I only use one of the enchantment for my v16 shield because I hated how I had one large pool drop due to my enchantment.

Shield breaker is a joke in its-self, as a DK I constantly use igenous shield so I can get major mending and increase my heals (due to the horrible healing nerf in PvP), so if someone decides to try and burst me with that set equipped; it'll surely be effective. I'd say 90%% of the time I'd face roll them before they would be able to accomplish that.

The game in my opinion should definitely split you up between the top tier and the casuals like any other competitive games mostly do. Why should someone who is fully geared up after theory crafting, experimenting with builds, or making an entire new method be the same as a player who threw gear together?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

sagitter wrote: »

-There will be a cap in the future in cs you can spend.
-Golden gear left and right? proff??? anyway obtain v15 sets is easy and there isn't much difference with a v16 set of same kind.
- Master weapons are v16 now? i'm not sure about this, i though only v14.

•that cap will be changed in some major way to rebreak it in some way before the it gets raised to 1000. We all know this to be true

•I don't grind or farm and I have all gold minus jewelry of course.

•Unless the damage buff from the Master's Bow was changed since last night three agility two Molag and VR14 Master's Bow with 5 Hundings Rage is still the best Archer setup.

Sausage

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Yes. From chests in imperial city and treasure scamps in the sewers.

Well, that's where you get the rune to craft the glyph.

That should be it, Ive spent nearly all my time in the sewers.

eligh0716

Iluvrien wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Wheres the problem? Just buy the mats.

Excellent, can you lend me the small ocean of gold I would need to continue my crafting business by buying all of the new mats at current guild store prices?

I'll pay you back... eventually.

Now we don't have enough gold. The only thing you should buy with gold is bag space and bank space and horse upgrades... Go farm the mats it's really not that hard if you can group up with people.

hedna123b14_ESO

Francescolg wrote: »

I mean, seriously, players, who got enough time to farm in this game, have already that many advantages, as:

• 500-1000+ Champion Points
• Golden gear left and right
• Master Weapons
• Rare PvP sets for 5k weapon dmg builds
• Etc...

With this patch this list is growing into infinity...., we've seen sets which offer enormous burst damage capabilities, as Molag Kena or the new 3-piece bonus sets. I was ok with most of the new content, until I saw this:


How big does ZOS want to make the gap between top-equiped players and casuals?
If a player can equip 7 armor pieces with tri-stats enchants, it appears to be a very serious balance-gap, as this basically means a huge increase in basic stats, not just dmg-output (1.6 burst damage / ego shooter style).

So, now, in ESO, we'll have some sort of Power Ranger in PvP and guild groups, anyone else (especially not-so-much farmers) will feel like an insect in terms of balance. This Power Rangers in their tight, shiny suits.. Is this the crowd this patch was made for? Do you want to be a Power Ranger!?

This enchantment is by no means OP and everyone has a fair chance of obtaining it, since it ONLY drops from the scamps in sewers. You complain so much and advocate for equality but this isnt communism...you work more you get more...with the current changes to CP this gap you speak of will be gone...stop asking for welfare...

hedna123b14_ESO

Iluvrien wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Wheres the problem? Just buy the mats.

Excellent, can you lend me the small ocean of gold I would need to continue my crafting business by buying all of the new mats at current guild store prices?

I'll pay you back... eventually.

If you didnt make at least 1 mil in the week when this expansion dropped, you were doing it wrong...

Birdovic

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

I mean, seriously, players, who got enough time to farm in this game, have already that many advantages, as:

• 500-1000+ Champion Points
• Golden gear left and right
• Master Weapons
• Rare PvP sets for 5k weapon dmg builds
• Etc...

With this patch this list is growing into infinity...., we've seen sets which offer enormous burst damage capabilities, as Molag Kena or the new 3-piece bonus sets. I was ok with most of the new content, until I saw this:


How big does ZOS want to make the gap between top-equiped players and casuals?
If a player can equip 7 armor pieces with tri-stats enchants, it appears to be a very serious balance-gap, as this basically means a huge increase in basic stats, not just dmg-output (1.6 burst damage / ego shooter style).

So, now, in ESO, we'll have some sort of Power Ranger in PvP and guild groups, anyone else (especially not-so-much farmers) will feel like an insect in terms of balance. This Power Rangers in their tight, shiny suits.. Is this the crowd this patch was made for? Do you want to be a Power Ranger!?

This enchantment is by no means OP and everyone has a fair chance of obtaining it, since it ONLY drops from the scamps in sewers. You complain so much and advocate for equality but this isnt communism...you work more you get more...with the current changes to CP this gap you speak of will be gone...stop asking for welfare...

Wrong. You get the enchant from big boss in baratum centrata, too.

Francescolg

People that do not have access to groups, or that don't find any with "lfg" and therefore don't play IC, have a huuuge disadvantage, no matter if no access to triple-glyphs or the "big" ones (900).

If such a player, who has not farmed IC, meets another player in PvP with golden vr16 armor + glyphs, the difference is... beyond good and evil. 7x500 more sta/magicka/HP means 3500 more sta/magicka/HP (in the case of single-vr16 glyphs).
If you add 'this' to all other "high end gear", golden weapons, molag kena, etc... the difference between casuals and item-farmers is significant" and inbalanced, as it has not been before in ESO!

That the game was not so much inbalanced on the basic item level in PvP, that was one of the MAJOR STRENGHTS of ESO PVP..! Even a casual guy in purple VR 14 had his chances to win fights vs. a PvE hardcore farmer!

We know that classes never have been balanced but if you bring together both factors: inbalanced classes and inbalanced itemization, CP system and the 50% damage reduction.. that's worse!

Never before have disparities been bigger than now! + "casual players without IC gear" will have considerably LESS chances in PvP. They do 50% less damage (in their already sub-par gear) and they will meet players who don't care about the 50%, as they have Molag Kena, Masters Weapons, vr16 glyphs, etc etc...
(The 50% damage nurf will hurt nuubs much, much more than people in full IC-equip)


Before the latest patches, the difference between "top geared" players and "the rest" consisted in just golden equipment, master weapons and some rare pvp sets. This GAP was acceptable, at least on the armor/defense/stats level the game was balanced somehow, as a VR 14 purple was similar to a VR 14 gold and VR 12 purple was also not so far from VR14 gold.

After the latest patches, this item tiers have gone crazy BECAUSE vr 16 items are WAY BETTER and have much better glyphs, than the old VR-12-TO-VR-14 ratio, or VR 10 ro VR 12, or VR 8 to VR 10

--> VR 16 items break that "progression in tiers" (glyphs, etc.)

So, beside the 4k+ weapon/magicka damage burst builds with 10k absorb shields or perma-stealth, there are many more disparities rising in ESO PvP, that is what makes me loose my motivation as, before 1.7, I felt somehow competitive, even if I battled a (pve-farmer) guy in full VR 14 gold (+AA+vDSA++items).
That is no longer the case, as now and considering the CP-inequalities, this (best gear equipped) guy will have much better stats on all levels, not just more weapon/magic damage, making the gap between a"full geared VR16 PvE-farmer" vs. "casual PvP player in VR 14/15" huuge.

This "gaps" were much more balanced in the VR-14 era of ESO, now the PvE farmers get too much goodies and better stats, etc., combined with CP you can call it "a candy world"...

(Sorry, I am no native speaker, that is why I choose the vr10-to-vr12, vr12-to-vr14 and vr14-to-vr16 examples. I wanted to point out that the new glyphs are making things worse in terms of "consistent itemization progression").

Hammy01

CP5 wrote: »

I'll add that its also one of the things zos is using to encourage hybrid builds. A rare glyph, for hybrid builds...

Rare as in not many people will be able to get it or rare as in only hybrid builds will want it.. because I'm pretty sure everyone and their dog will want a tri-enchant glyph regardless if they are a hybrid build or not. Plus if it's something that everyone will want to use then how does this promote hybrid builds?

F7sus4

Francescolg wrote: »

If such a player, who has not farmed IC, meets another player in PvP with golden vr16 armor + glyphs, the difference is... beyond good and evil. 7x500 more sta/magicka/HP means 3500 more sta/magicka/HP (in the case of single-vr16 glyphs).

It means your stats are spread out more which neither allows you to run hybrid builds nor makes your "dump" stats increased to a level that would make a gamebreaking boost. However, what you will be missing is ~2100 on your main and most important stat, which obviously makes your character weaker. (Math and meth are both not for everyone.)

Francescolg wrote: »

If you add 'this' to all other "high end gear", golden weapons, molag kena, etc... the difference between casuals and item-farmers is significant" and inbalanced, as it has not been before in ESO!

It would be the same difference that exists between smart and dumb people, rich and poor ones etc. if the "high-end" players didn't earn the stuff they own by themselves. But they took their time to earn it, and it's perfectly fair that they own it.

Francescolg wrote: »

That the game was not so much inbalanced on the basic item level in PvP, that was one of the MAJOR STRENGHTS of ESO PVP. .! Even a casual guy in purple VR 14 had his chances to win fights vs. a PvE hardcore farmer!

It's neither the lack of CP (the so-called CP "gap") nor the lack of hi-end gear that kills the players. In 95% cases (completely contrary to what they used to think) it's their lack of skill.

Francescolg wrote: »

Never before have disparities been bigger than now! + "casual players without IC gear" will have considerably LESS chances in PvP. They do 50% less damage (in their already sub-par gear) and they will meet players who don't care about the 50%, as they have Molag Kena, Masters Weapons, vr16 glyphs, etc etc... (The 50% damage nurf will hurt nuubs much, much more than people in full IC-equip)

The 50% damage nerf actually places both hi-end hardcores and noobs towards one line. And again, it's not Molag Kenas that provides you +50% damage output (WTF!). It's your rotation, then skill, then gear. A mixture of all of these. Seriously, a 50% difference would happen only if you wanted to run Stamina build in Magicka gear, which I assume you're bright enough not to do.

Francescolg wrote: »

Before the latest patches, the difference between "top geared" players and "the rest" consisted in just golden equipment, master weapons and some rare pvp sets. This GAP was acceptable, at least on the armor/defense/stats level the game was balanced somehow, as a VR 14 purple was similar to a VR 14 gold and VR 12 purple was also not so far from VR14 gold.

In 1.5 you either had a team to run AA with and own Aether set or you didn't and you simply sucked. And the gap was bigger with just 3-pcs and 5-pcs set bonuses.

Francescolg wrote: »

This "gaps" were much more balanced in the VR-14 era of ESO, now the PvE farmers get too much goodies and better stats, etc., combined with CP you can call it "a candy world"...

And what is the thing that prevents you from getting the same stuff as those "PvE farmers" as you call them? Isn't it actually PvE players that complain about being *** in IC PvP the most? So how do you say they are actually the ones at the top? This makes no sense at all.

PS. This response is not meant to bash you in a personal way. It simply exists to provide an insight on how selective your perception of current meta-game actually is/was.

Tholian1

eligh0716 wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Wheres the problem? Just buy the mats.

Excellent, can you lend me the small ocean of gold I would need to continue my crafting business by buying all of the new mats at current guild store prices?

I'll pay you back... eventually.

Now we don't have enough gold. The only thing you should buy with gold is bag space and bank space and horse upgrades... Go farm the mats it's really not that hard if you can group up with people.