Vampire update 7

timwilcoxsonub17_ESO

I am pretty disappointed with the vampire nerf. Lowering the fire dmg to 30% was a pretty nice adjustment, but the regen passive only being affective with a vamp skill slotted I think is a bad change.

Reasoning.
If you look at WW after update. No stam regen unless ultimate slotted. Harsh but understandable, my alt is a WW and to get a big bonus with no drawback is an understandable change. I honestly expected it sooner.

But the vampires drawback is always active. Fire hurts, and it hurts alot even at the new lower 30%. That is our drawback. Our regen shoukd not be affected by slitting an ability. We already have a huge fire dmg drawback.

With a WW their is no drawback unless they transform, that is when they are hurt by poison etc. That is also why i understand the nerf for WW.

With the change to Vampire it seems that the drawbacks are to big to remain a vampire.

Mojmir

There's no point in being a ww unless you give up ultimate. huge drawback.vamp is always up and use skills whenever with just a skill on bar

ADarklore

Ugh, I hate these threads because, as with WW... players only becoming WW/Vamp JUST for the passive but not to actually BE a Vampire/WW. Then, they think the regen passive is the only good thing, never mind the damage mitigation we receive below 50% health or the 'running in stealth'. Also, FYI, fire damage was dropped to 25%, not 30%.

I don't have a problem with this change, as a Vampire player I support it actually. On one vamp build it means losing regen on one bar- don't have room to slot an ability, but have the Ultimate on the other. Bat Swarm is actually one of the better Ultimate abilities in the game... on my current character, I will be using Bat Swarm on both bars.

eNumbra

ADarklore wrote: »

Ugh, I hate these threads because, as with WW... players only becoming WW/Vamp JUST for the passive but not to actually BE a Vampire/WW.

Which only occured with Werewolves.

As has been stated every time this has come up since it was announced, Vampire drawbacks are always active - I don't need to slot one of their abilities to "be a vampire".

But I've been watching them nerf Vampirism since beta; I don't see a problem being decimated by Fighters guild skills, I was fine when the mere thought of fire damage terrified Vamp players. Playing as a Nightblade I was already squishy and only got more-so but the stealth speed was worth it (especially when it stacked with set bonuses) but the damage reduction wasn't even noticeable.

imo, Vampirism and Lycanthropy are better as a big payoff/big drawback design, not as a mediocre sideways upgrade to a character - sure vamps can't complain as much, their skills are useful in comparison to the WW, but they may not fit some builds but with their drawbacks permanently active, you're always a vampire, not just when you've slotted skills.

ADarklore

eNumbra wrote: »

But I've been watching them nerf Vampirism since beta; I don't see a problem being decimated by Fighters guild skills, I was fine when the mere thought of fire damage terrified Vamp players. Playing as a Nightblade I was already squishy and only got more-so but the stealth speed was worth it (especially when it stacked with set bonuses) but the damage reduction wasn't even noticeable.

imo, Vampirism and Lycanthropy are better as a big payoff/big drawback design, not as a mediocre sideways upgrade to a character - sure vamps can't complain as much, their skills are useful in comparison to the WW, but they may not fit some builds but with their drawbacks permanently active, you're always a vampire, not just when you've slotted skills.

So they reduce fire damage from 40% to 25% and you consider that a nerf? What 'drawbacks' do Vampires have, especially now that fire damage has been reduced? Well... there still is the vulnerability to Fighter's Guild skills, still have 25% increase damage from fire, and... hmmmm... well, there is that requirement to feed every 30 minutes to keep your Vampire stage at level 1. What are the benefits... Drain Essence just became a heal/stun that can be reapplied to the same target multiple times, one of the best Ultimates in the game, 10% regen passives while ability slotted, damage mitigation of up to 33% below 50% health, increased speed while in stealth, improvements to health regen in Vampire stages 2-4, and 21% reduction of Vampire abilities at Vampire stage 4 (which can be handy if you use the Ultimate or Drain Essence frequently).

I'm still failing to see much of a drawback to being a Vampire.

Armitas

The idea of making it so you have to be a monster to get monster buffs makes sense, but there are two problems. Those who want to be a ww now lose two ultimate slots and those who want to be vamps get fire debuff and no benefit because vamp skills are not competitive in dungeons

eNumbra

ADarklore wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

But I've been watching them nerf Vampirism since beta; I don't see a problem being decimated by Fighters guild skills, I was fine when the mere thought of fire damage terrified Vamp players. Playing as a Nightblade I was already squishy and only got more-so but the stealth speed was worth it (especially when it stacked with set bonuses) but the damage reduction wasn't even noticeable.

imo, Vampirism and Lycanthropy are better as a big payoff/big drawback design, not as a mediocre sideways upgrade to a character - sure vamps can't complain as much, their skills are useful in comparison to the WW, but they may not fit some builds but with their drawbacks permanently active, you're always a vampire, not just when you've slotted skills.

So they reduce fire damage from 40% to 25% and you consider that a nerf? What 'drawbacks' do Vampires have, especially now that fire damage has been reduced? Well... there still is the vulnerability to Fighter's Guild skills, still have 25% increase damage from fire, and... hmmmm... well, there is that requirement to feed every 30 minutes to keep your Vampire stage at level 1. What are the benefits... Drain Essence just became a heal/stun that can be reapplied to the same target multiple times, one of the best Ultimates in the game, 10% regen passives while ability slotted, damage mitigation of up to 33% below 50% health, increased speed while in stealth, improvements to health regen in Vampire stages 2-4, and 21% reduction of Vampire abilities at Vampire stage 4 (which can be handy if you use the Ultimate or Drain Essence frequently).

I'm still failing to see much of a drawback to being a Vampire.

I feel the regen reduction is a nerf - obviously balanced by the reduced damage penalty. I,e, a net neutral or a buff for those who actually use Vamp actives.

Since you missed the point I'll have to summarize and reiterate my stance.


There is no drawback to being a vamp anymore (outside of dwindling reasons if you don't use any of the 3 skills, which I happen not to) and that's the problem. The damage penalty isn't noticeable anymore - that's the problem. Aside from losing the health regen (how many rely on health regen to keep them alive?) there's no longer a con to balance the pros and the pros (which is why i qualified this part with imo) are becoming meh. I have no interest in Mist form or Drain Essence in my rotation and I wouldn't use bat swarm outside of a panic button if I get surrounded.

The only things that aided my build are Dark Stalker and the Regen bonus and you can strike one of those now. That is the issue. The trade off used to be huge, now its not.

Need an even shorter Tl;Dr?

They're rebalancing Lycanthropes and Vamps in the wrong direction.

Alucardo

I found I wasn't using the Vampire abilities anyway. I always agreed with having to slot a vampire skill on your bar in order to reap the benefit. Freebie passives like Undeath and Supernatural Recovery should not exist, especially now the fire weakness has been lowered. If you want to be a vampire, then play like one. Many people would be Werewolves or Vampires simply for the passives, so this change I guess was an attempt to deter that. It was a great idea imo.

timwilcoxsonub17_ESO

Its not a freebie passive, vamps always take more fire dmg, and are always vulberable to fighters guild abilities and dragonknights.

So the weaknesses are always their unlike WW. That is why they deserve it.

leepalmer95

The idea of someone becoming a vampire and then complaining to use vampire skills confuses me?

Isn't that why you became one in the first place? to use the skills and the passives?

Ww's are useless is pvp, giving up an ultimate just for the regen is a lot worse than vamps because vamps have useful skills and passives unlike ww's.

eNumbra

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The idea of someone becoming a vampire and then complaining to use vampire skills confuses me?

Isn't that why you became one in the first place? to use the skills and the passives?
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Yes, to use the passives. Why should you have to use an active to use a passive that is intrinsically tied to vampirism?

leepalmer95

eNumbra wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The idea of someone becoming a vampire and then complaining to use vampire skills confuses me?

Isn't that why you became one in the first place? to use the skills and the passives?
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Yes, to use the passives. Why should you have to use an active to use a passive that is intrinsically tied to vampirism?

Same reason why you need to slot ww for the regen, at least vamps actually get useful passives.

Don't think zos designed vamps for people to ignore the entire skill line and just use regen and passives.

At least vamps have useful skills.

eNumbra

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Same reason why you need to slot ww for the regen, at least vamps actually get useful passives.

The detrimental effects of being a Werewolf are only active in Werewolf form.

Vampires are always in Vampire form.

Tell me again, why you have to slot a Vampire active skill, to take advantage of a passive skill.

Bloodgharm

This guy just doesn't get it, does he? It's not about weighing out the pros and cons. Vampirism is a curse with a few added benefits. If you're not going to actually use the vampire skills, then why become one? For the pale skin and red eyes? Your argument is ridiculous. Of course you should have to slot at least one skill. A better argument on your part would be to create more vampire skills that are useful as we only have 3 and only the ultimate is any good atm.

Sticx

If they want to take away the passives with no skill slotted then they needed to take away the fire vulnerability without a skill slotted also. But since that doesn't make since since you can't toggle on and off being a vampire the passives should stay. It isn't like a WW where you can switch forms.

eNumbra

Bloodgharm wrote: »

This guy just doesn't get it, does he? It's not about weighing out the pros and cons. Vampirism is a curse with a few added benefits. If you're not going to actually use the vampire skills, then why become one?

I don't think you get it. We can use the passive skills from being a vamp to benefit our builds. Weighing pros and cons is necessary for balance.

If the detrimental effects of being a vampire are active so too, should be the positive effects. It's amazing how simple some people are that this is so hard to grasp. We want Vampirism for the skills yes, not always the active skills, using Mist form, Drain essence or Bat Swarm doesn't make you a vampire; being a vampire makes you a vampire.

Chrlynsch

I personally feel like the supernatural recovery should be tied to feeding as a 2 hour buff... vamps got to feed to stay strong.

GreenSoup2HoT

Mist Form still Kick's ass even for a stamina user. You can reset your dodge roll cost with that.

Armitas

Dropped mine. Not going to take 25% more fire damage just to Role Play vamp in a dungeon because mist form and draw essence don't do jack for dps.

Bloodgharm

It's not like you don't get any other passive buffs with the fire vulnerability. You still get the undeath passive which is great damage mitigation at low health. Bat swarm has always been good and works great as an AOE damage ultimate or a replacement to veil of blades. Mist form is a poor man's cloak or bolt escape. And while they buffed drain essence, it still doesn't work for a dps build. You really need the 10% regen on stamina and magicka that bad? If the pros don't outweigh the cons, then don't choose to be a vampire.

Stravokov

the new drain essence is awesome for building ultimate. not to mention it heals you and stuns your target... i have to agree that to many players went vampire purely for the mechanical advantages rather than actually wanting to play a Vampire. im glad actually that ZOS made this change to weed out some of you. personally, i wish they made EVERY passive require you have at least 1 Vampire active ability on your bar. that would weed out the rest of the min maxers.

deal with it or cure yourself of Vampirism. quit complaining, you cant have your cake and eat it too.

eNumbra

Stravokov wrote: »

you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Which is why they should stop reducing the fire damage penalty and leave it the way it is - playing a vamp for the passives rather than the actives doesn't make someone a min-maxer or "not really playing a vamp".

Bloodgharm

On a side note, how many CPs in elemental resistance do you need to negate most of the vulnerability to fire you get as a vampire?

GreenSoup2HoT

Bloodgharm wrote: »

On a side note, how many CPs in elemental resistance do you need to negate most of the vulnerability to fire you get as a vampire?

It's like 30 point's for 10%. It starting going up real slow after that. Just throw on one legendary fire resist enchant and you got yourself another 10%. So your only left at a 5% extra fire damage de-buff. That's fine with me.

Now if only there was some way to reduce FG ability's damage.....
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Side note: I play vampire purely based on the fact i hate walking slow in stealth. I could care less if i have the supernatural recovery passive. The damage reduction while at low hp and sneak speed + Ult is really all i need. So 1 bar doesn't get supernatural recovery. Not that big of deal.